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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSorry, but you are an idiot..
if you think or suggest that violent video games have anything to do with school violence.
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NightWatcher
(39,376 posts)and all those kids were biting each other?
Then there was Donkey Kong and the related barrel throwing incidents....
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Bunch of kids eating marshmallows and chasing after me going wocka wocka wocka.
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)I heard some kid lit himself on fire and kept waiting the the elevator, guarding a purse. Everyone had to jump over him on the way out.
Initech
(108,783 posts)
neverforget
(9,513 posts)Pew, pew!
chrisa
(4,524 posts)They said that all the question-blocks were gone. They lied.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)
uppityperson
(116,020 posts)games make one more tolerant towards violence in real life? I am not asking if playing games makes someone more violent, but wondering about the larger sociological issue of being exposed to something lessening its impact. It is an honest question, please take it at that.
Hekate
(100,133 posts)I've got my grand kid reading "Only You Can Save Mankind" by Terry Pratchett, which is a pre-adolescent boy-sized meditation on whether what's at the other end of your joystick is "human" or not. Maybe he won't become one of the military's techies when he grows up.
Javaman
(65,711 posts)But I play "violent" video games yet I still get disturbed by the violence in todays society.
Like anything, I think it comes down to parenting. If you don't teach your kids that video games aren't real and that the awful things that happen in todays society are very real, then they won't have a concept of how it effects people until, sadly, it happens to them.
I think as we become more disassociated with society and allow ourselves the only avenue of connecting to people is by electronic means, then the concept of empathy becomes degraded or lost all together.
I know people who their only means of contact during an argument is via texting. How screwed up is that?
On that trend it's only logical to assume that the concept of nuance and emphasis is lost.
It's that disconnection from interpersonal contact, to me, is what is causing the slow and deliberate erosion of society and the cause of the violent attacks.
We as humans are social creatures and when a wall is put up, either consciously or unconsciously, we will react.
And I think we are seeing this reaction creeping in on a subconscious level and acting out on a very conscious level.
uppityperson
(116,020 posts)meant to be saying, was unclear, sorry. It is acceptable to have violence in movies, expected in many cases, while sex and/or "private parts" are much more limited. Even before personal electronics, this was happening and I saw people getting more used to violence.
Javaman
(65,711 posts)it goes into the very slanted and bizarre view that MPAA uses to rate movies.
I agree with you regarding the weird uptight view "we" have on sex in media.
we glorify violence but make sex taboo.
it's probably one of the most bizarre elements of Calvinism that this nation has clung on to regarding public morality.
Jamastiene
(38,206 posts)If anything, watching more gruesome uncensored news videos (the raw footage, uncensored) has made me MORE empathetic to the point that I looked up the outcome of one guy's accident. (Spoiler: He lived and is doing fine now.) He was cut in half. It was very very graphic. I felt grossed out at first, but then before the video was over, I felt real empathy for him moreso than if someone had just told me it happened and I never actually saw the footage.
I think it is what is inside the person that causes the person to act one way or another. I felt empathy and hoped the guy made it. I was glad to find out he did make it. Others might feel, react, and act differently.
One variable that might be important to mention in my case is: I can watch the most gruesome stuff as long as it doesn't involve animals. That, I still cannot, to this day, stand to see. The soldier throwing the puppy off the cliff video that went around during the Bush admin, still haunts me to this day. It was on DU. I don't know why I watched it, but I regret it. I think I will never get that out of my head. That video DID make me want to become violent...toward the asshole who killed that puppy the way he did. I didn't though. I just despised his actions in that video and felt really bad for the poor puppy. 
I'm not sure what the "correct" answer is, but that's my take on it.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Statistical measures of correlations and likelihoods are all that are available. "Cause" is not required for there to be an important relation between playing violent video games and acts of violence. The relation between the two is not fully understood, but there clearly is one.
I have not heard anyone claim that a if a person plays a violent video game, then they will suddenly want to kill people. It is way more complicated than that.
“None of these extreme acts, like a school shooting, occurs because of only one risk factor; there are many factors, including feeling socially isolated, being bullied, and so on,” said Craig A. Anderson, a psychologist at Iowa State University. “But if you look at the literature, I think it’s clear that violent media is one factor; it’s not the largest factor, but it’s also not the smallest.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/science/studying-the-effects-of-playing-violent-video-games.html
uppityperson
(116,020 posts)Does continual exposure to unrealistic graphic violence in media and games make one more tolerant towards violence in real life? I am not asking if playing games makes someone more violent, but wondering about the larger sociological issue of being exposed to something lessening its impact.
Desensitizing people to violence, not does playing violent vid games make one violent.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)I was backing you up.
From what I understand there seem to be a lot of elements. Frequent exposure (desensitization), frustration with games, and the tendency for people who have aggressive tendencies to be attracted to violent media.
I have heard people point to cross cultural studies to support the thesis that there is no link.
However, when I was discussing it with a person from France. I noticed that the violence is so far beyond anything she has heard of in France that it does not register as something that is real.
In America extreme violence is very real. If what is available in fantasy is something that really happens, I think that would change the perception.
DireStrike
(6,452 posts)People who have a tough time with reality due to mental issues are probably exceptions. Statistically it may result in a small increase in violence. Anecdotally It seems absurd to say that desensitization causes violence. It may even be tough to argue that desensitization exists. I would have to see hard data before I answer the question for sure.
Wait Wut
(8,492 posts)...just watch what happens if I run into a Night Elf, zombie, genetically altered human...
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)
FOR THE HORDE! 
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Ask them about the idiot that just screamed FUS RO DAH at them before running away.
I need video. 
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)
Wait Wut
(8,492 posts)...reminds me of the good 'ol days when my Fire Mage was more than just a squishy target.
deathrind
(1,786 posts)Oh- how I miss being at the Stables with my pet on Prowl, Shadowmeld and Aimed Shot.
Wait Wut
(8,492 posts)Your cute little hunter would have been no match for my Epic Troll Fire Mage. 
deathrind
(1,786 posts)Where Hunters have been horribly out gunned since S4, but at lower levels like 19, I owned Mages of all flavors Fire/Arcane/Frost 
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Because you don't seem to know what that phrase means.
mercuryblues
(16,413 posts)pong drove me to slap people silly until their head started bouncing back and forth to fast.
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)I kept humming the tones from pong for when the ball bounced off things. Then I started playing Combat and had hallucinations of cars spinning around every time they got hit by a chestnut falling from a tree.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)However, if you want to convince anyone else, you'll need more than an epithet.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)It is an airtight intellectual argument.
Proposition A: All idiots are idiots
Proposition B: You're an idiot
Conclusion: Computer games have 0.0000% to do with youth violence.
I don't see any flaws in it. Logic at its finest.
<kidding>
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts) NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts) Response to Dawgs (Original post)
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Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)
unblock
(56,198 posts)that's why no one who wants to fly a plane ever uses a simulator.
ever.
they'd be idiots to even think of doing that.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)may handle in a safe environment, a grounded cockpit for example.
That's far and away different from video games.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Some of them in the hands of someone who's already close to the edge won't help though.
My entire library is rated M, but I don't actually consider going on a murder spree.
Violence in video games is fine if, like sexual content, it actually serves the narrative rather than just being there for the sake of it (see: GTA, Condemned, MW2, etc).
jwirr
(39,215 posts)with his dad.
LannyDeVaney
(1,033 posts) 
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Since the OP is not about the category "violent crime" the data isn't much use in supporting it.
And since the OP probably assumes that violent crime has been on a steady increase due to some factor other than video games, that data probably can't really *support* the OP's view of much of anything.
geckosfeet
(9,644 posts)And it makes more sense to me.
Not all video games are violent.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)Not the broad category of "violent crimes".
B2G
(9,766 posts)can you prove that it doesn't have an impact on certain people?
I would suggest that it isn't the direct *cause* of violence, but could be a precipating factor. Perhaps one of many.
LannyDeVaney
(1,033 posts)I play lots of violent video games. I routinely head-shot, car jack, and disembowel avatars. I push people into lava, I freeze people in place, catch folks on fire ... heck, I walk down a virtual street and punch old ladies when I feel like it.
Number of violent crimes I've committed: 0.
So it apparently doesn't have an impact on a certain me.
B2G
(9,766 posts)no one is. Gotcha.
When I was in college, I went to Ft Lauderdale for spring break. We stayed with my roommates' brother. One night we all went to see Scarface.
Later that night, he totally flipped out and started tearing the house apart. My roommate spent 5 hours trying to get him to calm down. Ended up with a split lip. The rest of us hid in a closet for 5 hours. Turns out he had some psychological issues that the extreme violence in the movie triggered.
How many people saw Scarface and were perfectly fine? Probably 99% of the viewers. It's the 1% you have to watch out for.
LannyDeVaney
(1,033 posts)My point was you can't prove that NOBODY is affected. I can certainly prove that NOT everyone is affected.
And what does a movie have to do with a discussion of violence in video games?
And 99% is too low. If 1% of the folks who played violent video games (or watched violent movies) went off like your friend, there would be mass shootings every hour on the hour.
I guess killing all those Germans in Medal of Honor really set Hitler off.
B2G
(9,766 posts)certain kids to pick up guns and knives and go at each other?
randome
(34,845 posts)Next question!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]
B2G
(9,766 posts)Research some of the worst mass shootings recently and see how many of them spent hours playing violent video games.
I'm not saying it was the cause...but there's a definite link. What that link is has been largely unexplored.
randome
(34,845 posts)The loudest of those who shout 'It doesn't affect me!' are those who have second-thoughts about spending their free time playing 'games'.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]
I totally agree.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)People are treating the least violent point in human history, the lowest rate of youth violence in the country in close to 30 years as if its a new epidemic of violence, and they are blaming video games for it? A type of media that only became popular in, oddly enough, the past 30 years or so.
B2G
(9,766 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Can't all be perfect like you.
Response to Dawgs (Reply #53)
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Dawgs
(14,755 posts)
Response to Dawgs (Reply #56)
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Dawgs
(14,755 posts)And, simulated murder and rape happen throughout all entertainment. Are you suggesting that people shouldn't enjoy R-rated movies?
Response to Dawgs (Reply #78)
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unblock
(56,198 posts)the vast majority of swimming doesn't have anything to do with drowning.
the vast majority of flights doesn't have anything to do with terrorism.
and the vast majority of video games doesn't have anything to do with school violence.
but that doesn't mean that there isn't some tiny fraction of a percent where there is some interaction.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)video games and school violence is, at best, inconclusive.
unblock
(56,198 posts)i agree that the relationship is inconclusive, but it's hardly idiocy to think there might be something there, at least in those cases that actually result in school violence.
the only real argument that they have nothing to do with each other is that so many people play video games without then shooting up a school. my point is simply that that's faulty logic.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)correlation, i.e. if any causal relationship is to be found, it is most likely to be one where video games are linked to less violence, not more.
unblock
(56,198 posts)obviously there's something different between those who shoot up schools and those who don't.
among those not at risk, playing video games doesn't seem to be a problem.
however, among those at risk, playing video games is possibly one of several related factors.
looking at one single factor in isolation can be highly misleading if in reality there are multiple factors involved. so it's possible, in theory, that you're correct, video games in isolation are negatively correlated with violence (across the entire population of people ages 10-25, say), but at the same time, video games are positively correlated with violence when other factors are considered (across a much more restricted population of people at risk for violence).
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Are video games an outlet or a cause? It seems to me that this is a chicken and egg situation, if videogames are only positively correlated when other behaviors are also present, its possible that one of the manifestations of those behaviors is through video games.
unblock
(56,198 posts)it's possible that it's not a cause at all, but perhaps it is a warning sign that those other factors might be present.
making suicidal threats might similarly not be a "cause" of suicide but it is certainly a known warning sign that the other factors that can lead to suicide are present. excessive playing of violent video games might be a similar predictor of violence. and similarly again, the vast majority of such threats don't lead to suicide attempts, and the vast majority of video game playing doesn't lead to violence. but it still might be useful as a warning sign.
then again, it may also be an enabling factor. many people contemplate themselves being dead but lack the vision of a clear path to actually do making it happen. dwelling on the means (suicide ideation) is a way to mentally rehearse it, and can (if other factors are present) enable it to actually happen. video games might play a similar role in violence.
all in all, we have such a small sample size and most of the school shooters don't survive the event and so researchers can't interview them. so it's very hard to get clear insight into what's going on. that means the idiotic thing is overly quickly dismissing something as irrelevant. that's jumping to a conclusion in a very complex matter.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)that having sex with a hooker, then beating her with a bat to get your money back, then shooting the cops as they chase you(one of the most popular games in the history of gaming), has no effect on young minds.
Talking about things like this as if they are absolutes, as you have done here, almost always shows one as having a very narrow scope of thought.
Bonx
(2,353 posts)... possibly desensitize someone to killing people, or actually lead to someone killing people ?
It makes no sense.
hack89
(39,181 posts)Over the past 20 we have seen a huge increase in the number of video gamers. Over the same period we have cut our murder and manslaughter rate in half.
There is no connection.
Individuals do things.
hack89
(39,181 posts)But you knew that.
Bonx
(2,353 posts) hack89
(39,181 posts)Sorry for the confusion.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)You pointed a finger and called people names and now realize more of your fingers are pointing back at you. Job well done Brownie. Sometimes it is best to leave your audience uncertain with respect to intellect.
geckosfeet
(9,644 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Your turn to provide a study.
geckosfeet
(9,644 posts)
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)try spelling it correctly.
It makes you look at least 50% less foolish.
Heidi
(58,846 posts)you poor thing. I do hope your keepers at least give you a gift certificate for a morning at the range (or arcade) for your valiant but less than convincing effort.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Heidi
(58,846 posts)I would think it's a good thing to blame the right thing, not video games.
murielm99
(32,988 posts)I read some violent books, science fiction, and a lot of murder mysteries. There is often a great deal of death in those stories.
They have never made me want to go out and kill people.
I see some gory movies, too. I am not a murderer because of them.
Or, does this only apply to those who are under fifty? Are older people immune to the influence of violent video games, books, movies?
Hmmm.....
I trust that DUers know sarcasm when they see it.
Javaman
(65,711 posts)"corruption of todays youth" via comic books in the 1950's.
blaming video games is the easy way out.
it's nothing more than blaming the symptom rather than the cause.
because, if we actually dealt with the cause, there would be a lot of "hair on fire" moments from the right wing.
avebury
(11,197 posts)to spend way too much time on video games and other electronics and fail to learn basic human interaction and communication skills. We hire a few kids right out of college every year and not all of them come with great social skills and it is pretty sad. They think that they are ready to take on the world and you work really hard to not laugh in their face. There were a couple of young guys that it was never a matter of would it happen but when it would happen - getting smacked down by someone in a much higher position in the agency.
madinmaryland
(65,729 posts)before the video game Grand Theft Auto existed.
jazzimov
(1,456 posts)Hidden messages like "I buried Paul" or "Turn me on Dead Man" when played backwards - and don't forget the Little Piggies! And since then, more and more Satanic messages! Unclean! Demons!
Oh, and although it shouldn't be needed:
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)
spanone
(141,610 posts)
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)So...yeah.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
SomethingFishy
(4,876 posts)Of course video games have something to do with violence.
When Leroy Jenkins went running into that dungeon, triggering every spawn point all at once and basically getting everyone in his party killed, well I wanted to beat the shit out of him too.
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)is a better indication of idiocy.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Suggesting that video games cause more violence without proof is utterly foolish and senseless.
Am I wrong?
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)compared to video game popularity.
Maybe like these two.
http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/08/27/in-new-study-video-games-not-tied-to-violence-in-high-risk-youth/58934.html
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Video games desensitize the violence. Just like gore horror movies, just in a higher rate/fashion, since the user actively participates in the slaughter. It gets them used to the blood shed. Makes their subconscious accept it as an okay deed.
That in itself doesnt necessary cause violence. But it makes the said individual take what initially was a punch, to a completely different level.
Can you understand that?
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)I get physically ill when I see violence in real life. I can't look at threads that warn me of graphic pictures. I pause videos on TYT when they warn of people fighting, or there is a lot of gore.
I have also been watching violent movies my whole life. I enjoy them tremendously. And, I don't turn away when there is violence or abuse.
Maybe it's because I know that it's not real. Same as when I play video games.
Now maybe my experience is different than others, but I've yet to see a study or trend that proves that video games, music, or R-rated movies makes someone more violent.
Please post them if you have them, because the only studies I've on video games are ones that show no correlation.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)That makes no sense.
randome
(34,845 posts)If reality isn't enough evidence for you, what do you think of the film 28 Days?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)PTSD has NOTHING to do with playing video games, unless you have a study proving me wrong.
randome
(34,845 posts)Obviously exposure to traumatic scenes -even when not directly engaged in them- affects some people.
Of course you can't 'prove' anything because it's impossible to get inside someone's brain and track how the neurons are firing when they go off the rails.
You clearly feel threatened by something because you already made up your mind when you posted. You simply wanted to pick a fight with those who might think differently.
I wonder where that aggressive posture comes from.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)And yes, I'm always threatened by ignorance and stupidity.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)And like someone else said, bless your heart.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Studies and history prove me right.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Knowing without the thinking is pretty useless.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Until they learned and KNEW that it wasn't.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Good luck in this thread.
CFLDem
(2,083 posts)and then go driving, I do have an urge to run over pedestrians and run from the cops.
But then I remember this is real life and that's not allowed.
But yeah you are correct. Violent people are going kill regardless of what they do in their free time.
Zorra
(27,670 posts) LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)That's the bare minimum to even make an argument worthy of consideration. They can't even do that.
Luckily, gamers are protected from the misinformed by the First Amendment. It's one of those few times I can feel superior to Europeans and all those other countries that "researchers" say are so much better. They get to kill robots in their games (assuming it passes the safety and equality committee censors), we get good ol' fashioned people to kill.
it's pretty well accepted that people who constantly watch FOX news are more or less brainwashed, but impressionable kids dwelling on violent video games for hours and hours daily are somehow immune to any influence from what they are watching?
Not saying that there isn't something else wrong in addition to the fixation with violent games, but the games may not help an already brewing social problem.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Look it up.
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)I happen to agree with Woody Allen on this issue.
American Idol!
Rex
(65,616 posts)not opine in about something they know nothing about. IMO. That goes for a lot of things too.
dilby
(2,273 posts)I think multiple sources of violence in society desensitizes people from it. We see it in our video games, tv shows, movies, pretty much all forms of entertainment and we see it in our reality as well with wars and culture.
If someone came out with a game that the sole purpose was to beat and rape women would you think that would not have an effect on the people who play it? Especially those who do not have fully developed brains like children.
tritsofme
(19,900 posts)But it is pretty clear in this thread who the idiot is.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)about the sources of violence in our culture that shows up in schools, I don't really have any interest in responding to a statement like that, except to say this:
A faux apology for calling people "idiots" for thinking or suggesting something about a topic demonstrates a lack of civility, social skills, and debating skills, and may be an indicator of an argument that can't be supported with actual evidence. Personal attack as debate is common, but not worthy of respect. That kind of bully mentality is certainly ubiquitous in our culture, though, and may be related to incidents of physical violence.
Atman
(31,464 posts)No, as kids we didn't run around mazes eating pizzas. What a stupid argument. But now we're able to feel the actual kickback from a gun as we shoot people in the 3D streets. There is a huge difference.
Does every kid react the same way? Of course not. But how many have to react this way to make you say "Hey, there might be a problem here?"
LWolf
(46,179 posts)which had nothing to do with video games at all?
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Uhm, no we aren't, controllers vibrate, that's its, its not kickback, if you think it is, then you never fired a gun before.
There may be combat simulators available to law enforcement and the military that may try to simulate this realistically, but they aren't available to the general public, or the equipment required is prohibitively expensive.
Also, you seem to be postulating a chicken and egg scenario, would kids with a history of violence not seek out games to satisfy their preexisting urges? Isn't that just as likely.
Atman
(31,464 posts)I've fired high powered weapons. I own some "high powered" video games. I'm not saying all game players will want to shoot up a schoolyard, but I can easily see how hours of fake shooting on the tv could make certain poeple want to try the real thing. It doesn't seem to be that much of a stretch.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)What controller do you use to simulate the kickback of a gun, name and model please, otherwise you are bullshitting.
Atman
(31,464 posts)Old school, just a Wii. But the controller has kickback. Obviously not close to the same as a real gun, but I've fired plenty of real guns, too. I imagine newer video games offer more feedback. My point is simple; some people aren't well hinged. If you spend hours playing these games, I'm not sure why it is so hard to expect that some people wont take it to the next level. I'm not saying gaming CAUSES this. Read my OP.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)You aren't the person I asked the question of, but it remains the same. Let me shout it this time and see if it sinks in:
I DIDN'T POST ANYTHING ABOUT VIDEO GAMES. I ALSO DIDN'T POST THE QUOTE YOU QUOTED BACK AT ME. IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO WHAT I POSTED, WHY ARE YOU JUMPING IN WITH IRRELEVANT CRAP? ARGUE VIDEO GAMES WITH SOMEONE WHO IS ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT VIDEO GAMES.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)is your problem?
LWolf
(46,179 posts)you didn't respond to Atman. You replied to my post asking Atman to respond to what I said.
I just want people to read, to pay attention, and to address whatever actual point they are responding to.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)actual guns, as in the feedback from them, to be patently ridiculous, not to mention any controller attempting to do that would be ludicrously expensive.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)Yet nobody has anything to say about whether or not calling people "idiots" is effective; I just get points about video games...
Atman
(31,464 posts)My response was to the OP, not you.
chrisa
(4,524 posts)Look over there! It's (books / music / video games)! Stop blaming my precious!
Guns are their special little snowflake that can do no wrong. It's always someone else's fault.
Neoma
(10,039 posts)Playing with bows and arrows has totally influenced me into shooting people with arrows from my balcony!