Tennessee Senate Votes To Cancel Gun Safety Classes, Allowing Open Carry Without A License

[MindMover]

Last edited Wed Apr 9, 2014, 01:36 PM - Edit history (1)

The Tennessee Senate voted by a wide margin on Tuesday to permit any gun owner to openly carry a firearm, provided that they are not legally barred from owning a gun. One consequence of this bill, should it become law, is that it would eliminate the requirement that gun owners complete a training course on firearm safety before they are allowed to wander the streets of Tennessee while armed.

The bill appears to be part of a trend of pro-gun lawmakers trying to remove checks on who may have a firearm in public spaces. Until 2007, Vermont was the only state in the country that did not require gun permits to carry a gun in public. In recent years, however, legislation eliminating the permit requirement became law in Wyoming, Arizona, Alaska, Arkansas and Oklahoma.

Although the most common justification for more permissive gun laws is that they are needed for self-defense — “the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” in NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre’s words — data on gun violence does not support this justification. The presence of guns is far more likely to lead to a criminal homicide than an act of self defense. In 2010, for example, there were 8,275 illegal homicides and only 230 justifiable killings.

A likely explanation for why the NRA’s narrative does not actually resemble reality is that mass shootings — the kind of gun murders where an armed vigilante would be most useful — are actually quite rare. According to a paper by Josh Blackman, a libertarian law professor at South Texas College of Law, “[r]oughly .1% of deaths from gunfire take place during a mass shooting (defined as 4 or more deaths in a single event). The overwhelming majority, 99.9% are not during a mass shooting.”

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/04/09/3424644/tennessee-senate-votes-to-let-nearly-anyone-openly-carry-a-gun-without-having-to-get-a-license/

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Kansas and Tennessee ... KOCHTOPIA ....

Does evolution mean you get smarter or dumber ????

[onehandle]

1. Say yer prayers, varmint!

[IMG][/IMG]

[pscot]

2. Because gun safety training definitely infringes

your right to be an asshole with a gun.

[GeorgeGist]

3. More innocents will die.

Most of them will be children.

The price of Freedumb is too high.

[Tsiyu]

4. Sounds crazy, but my concern is for law enforcement

more guns in cars and out in the public square = more chances for misunderstandings and perceived threats.

I would not want to be a cop in a state where everyone is packing heat.

Recipe for disaster.

But then, that is Haslam's official motto for his and the Republicans' rule here: Recipe for disaster, indeed

[Bandit]

7. Cops will learn or have learned to shoot first and ask questions later.

I truly feel sorry for those people that feel the need to walk around armed. They must be terrified most of the time.

[Glitterati]

5. Oh well, I really didn't want to go back to Chattanooga for a week this summer

Won't be spending any tourist dollars in TN any time in the future.

[Jgarrick]

8. You'll want to avoid all of these states as well:

They all have open carry.

[Glitterati]

9. Without a license?

Or firearms safety class?

That's OK, though, I avoid most of those states anyway.

Oh, right, it says differently right in the OP..........thought so.

[Jgarrick]

12. I included those which allow it with a license. Here's a map of only those which have

Last edited Wed Apr 9, 2014, 05:18 PM - Edit history (1)

unrestricted open carry:

(Edit for accuracy)

[ManiacJoe]

13. You need to add WA state.

[Glassunion]

21. and PA

Except for the city of Philly though.

[Lizzie Poppet]

22. Oregon allows it, too.

The applicable state law specifically does not preempt local ordinances, though...and several cities and towns (and Multnomah County) prohibit it.

[Jgarrick]

25. WA, PA, and OR added.

[IronGate]

37. Can't really tell,

but NV. also is an unrestricted open carry state.

[Supersedeas]

24. Yep, open carry is legal in lots of places, though not often exercised.

[NightWatcher]

6. The First Rule for being a Repuke: Take the Asshole position on everything

Gun Safety... Screw it. More guns, less safety. Why not hand out guns in public too. Next up, chainsaw juggling for toddlers.

[HockeyMom]

10. I haven't the slightest clue how to use a gun

So in Tennessee I could just go out and buy a gun and just carry it around for a good luck charm. I might even accidentally kill myself with it. Your are BORN knowing how to use a gun?

I thought Florida was a crazy state, but at least they require training.

[Lizzie Poppet]

11. Okay, I misread the original article.

Last edited Wed Apr 9, 2014, 03:17 PM - Edit history (1)

I somehow thought this was for concealed carry, not open carry. I wrote the post below while operating on that incorrect assumption.



I'm a supporter of "shall issue" CCW systems...and I have an Oregon permit. I was required to take a course in basic gun safety (which I already knew very well...but a refresher can't hurt) and the law regarding what is and is not legal self-defense. If anything, I think that this instruction should be more extensive. In fact, I think demonstration of competence at the range would be a good addition...although I see the difficulties in such a requirement.

This is a really stupid move in TN.

Oh, and this thread really doesn't belong on GD...but the de facto rules aren't really much like the stated ones, so I guess it'll be okay.

[ManiacJoe]

14. Open carry without a permit is common for most of the USA.

Is there something about folks from Tennessee that they should be restricted from it?

[MindMover]

15. Does OK Corral ring a bell ... ?

I understand your sentiment, and Jim Jones does tooo ...

[ManiacJoe]

16. Sure, but what does it have to do with this discussion?

[MindMover]

18. So your position is that anybody with a gun can walk around with it openly ...

showing and that should be the law of the land ... ?

[ManiacJoe]

19. Well, not "anybody".

Those who are legal owners. Currently that _is_ the law of the land in most places. Granted that concealed carry is better self-defense tactics, but if one wants to carry openly what is the harm?

[MindMover]

23. OK, I am getting my passport application today ...

and see if it really takes 3-4 wks to get processed ...

[SomethingFishy]

26. The harm is that the myth of the "responsible" gun owner

is the exception not the rule. You went to open carry? I want a guarantee, that you aren't going to accidentally shoot me.

Your right to be a gun toting wild west sheriff is superseded by my right to walk in public without the fear of being accidentally shot by some idiot who didn't realize his safety was off, or his gun was loaded.

[ManiacJoe]

29. I can easily give you that guarantee.

If I shoot you, it will certainly be on purpose because you are criminally trying to harm me or others. Hopefully, such behavior is not normal for you.

> Your right to be a gun toting wild west sheriff ...

I have no such right, nor do I want such a right. Being armed for self defense does not give one any law enforcement rights or responsibilities.

> ... my right to walk in public without the fear of being accidentally...

Nor does being armed for self defense in any way interfere with you being safe while out in public.

If you want to claim something as silly as "the myth of the "responsible" gun owner is the exception not the rule", feel free to try supporting the claim with facts and figures.

[SomethingFishy]

32. You can't guarantee shit...

All you can do is guarantee yourself. What about the guy standing next to you? Or the guy down the street?

I could post all kinds of links about "responsible" gun "accidents" none of which would make you change your mind.

"Being armed for self defense". I understand. You're paranoid. You walk down the street and you see people trying to hurt you so you feel an innate need to be "protected". I feel for ya, it must be difficult to live in a place where you feel the need to be lethally armed just so you can leave your house.

So you carry your gun wherever you want and I'll choose to live in a place where that isn't necessary. Problem solved.

[ManiacJoe]

35. Responses like that are always good for a laugh. Thank you!

> All you can do is guarantee yourself.

Correct, and that is all you paid for since you paid for nothing.

> What about the guy standing next to you? Or the guy down the street?

Not my problem. If they are presenting themselves as problems, I will easily distance myself from them. Anyone being armed has no influence on this.

> "responsible" gun "accidents"

Since those two things tend to be mutually exclusive, you are correct in that you could not get me to change my mind into thinking that they go together.

> You're paranoid.

No, I am prepared. I know the risks; I know their extremely low odds; I take steps to help survive the unlikely but deadly events.

> So you carry your gun wherever you want and I'll choose to live in a place where that isn't necessary.

Excellent. That choice is exactly as it should be.

[Skittles]

39. LOL

how is it that I, a middle-aged gal who is routinely out and about all hours of the night, has less fear than you do?

FIRE AWAY!!!!

[ManiacJoe]

40. Since you are making the assumptions, you tell me.

I don't fear anything, is there a reason that I should? At best for you, that brings you up to my level.

[beevul]

31. Myth?

There are 300 million+ guns in the hands of 100 million+ people, and there are roughly 100000 non-suicide shootings annually.

Do you think the other 99,900,000 of them are a myth?

In what world...and in what sane sense of measure, are 99.900,000 an exception, and 100,000 the rule?


Good grief.

[SomethingFishy]

33. "Good Grief"

Someone isn't buying my bullshit that there isn't a gun problem in America!!! GOOD GRIEF!


Yeah telling me that there are 300 million guns in the hands of a freaked out paranoid nation is really helping your cause.

[beevul]

34. The truth is what it is, whether you accept and acknowledge it or not.

The truth is what it is, whether you accept and acknowledge it or not.

The "irresponsible gun owner" is by far a minority. Statistics show that they make up roughly 1/10th of a percent of all gun owners.

Ignoring it wont change it or make it go away.

[upaloopa]

28. That just goes to show how fucked up this idea is.

If you don't know the answer to your own question you are a gun nut!

[ManiacJoe]

30. I know the answer; you just don't like it.

The answer is "there is no harm".

If you want to claim that there is a harm, feel free to point out the harm(s) that you believe exist.

[upaloopa]

36. People are afraid of people with guns.

Guns "accidentally" go off.
Because you don't give a shit about other people

My disgust for you can't be posted here.

[ManiacJoe]

38. What you need is knowledge. Fortunately that can be fixed.

> People are afraid of people with guns.

Yes, some are. But it is not a rational fear.

> Guns "accidentally" go off.

No, they do not. Modern guns do not accidently go off. Someone or something pulls the trigger. When someone pulls the trigger at a time when that was not his intent, that is negligence not an accident.

> Because you don't give a shit about other people

I care plenty about others. I just do it differently than you do, with more logic and less emotion.

> My disgust for you can't be posted here.

That is probably a good thing as that limitation has the ability to help you get over it.

Ask questions. There are plenty of knowledgeable people here willing to help you learn if you choose to do so.

[AlinPA]

41. Walking into a grocery store to customer service holding a pistol in your hand might get some

attention, though. Or carrying an AR-i5 in your hands and walking up to a cash register might raise a few eyebrows.

[ManiacJoe]

42. As it should.

What you describe is illegal in most places (brandishing).

[AlinPA]

43. I thought the discussion was around unrestricted open carry, e.g. replies #9 and #25.

[ManiacJoe]

44. It is.

However, "open carry" does not mean "in hand carry" or brandishing. Open carry means that the gun is visible when in its holster, usually with the holster located outside the pants.

[AlinPA]

45. Thanks, OK, that may be an interpretation, but "unrestricted" means "no restrictions" to me.

[ManiacJoe]

46. Probably a misplaced modifier.

It is "open carry" that is being "unrestricted", not "carry" being "unrestricted".

Plus, "unrestricted" in this case means "no permits needed". Certainly there are still rules and laws governing the actions.

[Are_grits_groceries]

17. Wow! Even the SC State Senate tabled that kind of bill.

It still may get out and become law at some point, but the GOP leaders and Dems wanted none of it.

[Go Vols]

20. It most likely won't pass the House.

But Harris said he doubts the bill will pass the House, noting that the House Finance Subcommittee has delayed a vote on the measure until the end of the year.

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2014/04/08/tennessee-senate-votes-allow-open-guns/7473297/

[upaloopa]

27. Sorry but if you openly carry a gun in a grocery store

or a Walmart or something similar were the general public is present you are an ass hole IMHO.
And I hope when you do people treat you like an ass hole!