Protests spread in eastern Ukrainian cities.

[another_liberal]

The interim president of Ukraine says he wants a nation-wide referendum on federalizing the country and allowing more independence for Russian-speaking, eastern regions. Mr. Turchinov also replaced Ukraine's hard line commander of anti-terrorism forces (who he gave the job to just a week ago), apparently signaling a softer, less confrontational approach to the unrest. But is it already too late? Has the ship of independence for eastern Ukraine sailed?

Protest expands in eastern Ukraine as Kiev threatens military op.

The anti-Kiev protests are expanding in Ukraine's Donetsk Region, where activists are besieging police HQ in the city of Gorlovka. The central authorities are threatening to use military force to quash the uprising. Gorlovka is an eastern Ukrainian city with a population of more than 250,000 inhabitants. The activists apparently spent the night in City Hall and proceeded to take over the police HQ on Monday morning

Troops holding the HQ barricaded in as a crowd of several hundred people gathered outside, according to footage from the scene. At one point they opened fire and used stun grenades, when the protesters tried to raise a Russian flag on the entrance to the building. The person trying to set the flag atop the entrance roof was pushed down and broke his arm. The flag was taken down right after it was raised.

The angered protesters threw a Molotov cocktail in apparent retaliation, but the fire was quickly extinguished. They later forced their way and demanded that the defenders of the building surround their weapon and leave. The interior of the building sustained some damage as the attackers, but no major instances of violence were seen.

Some more radical people in the crowd called for immediate revenge for the incident with the flag as the police chief Andrey Krishchenko as he was escorted out of the building, but their more cool-headed comrades restrained them. The officer, who reportedly was the one to push down the activist, sustained a head injury in a scuffle inside the building and was taken to hospital.

(snip)

Read more at: http://rt.com/news/donetsk-region-protest-escalation-348/

[dipsydoodle]

1. Map here of areas affected :

Sloviansk, Yenakiyevo, Horlivka, Artemivsk, Kramatorsk, Kharkiv, Mariupol, Zaporizha, Donetsk, Makiyivka, Druzhkivka.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27018199

[malaise]

2. The neo-cons, neo-liberals and neo-fascists

never considered this these past twenty plus years?

[sabrina 1]

3. Good question. I think they just thought they could do what they've done elsewhere, win by

brutality against anyone who opposes their plans. Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Syria where so far their policies have failed, but they ARE going through the list of countries they promised to 'reform'.

The coup Government is now threatening to use MILITARY force against the Ukraine protesters so unless someone stops that, seems to me they are being advised, (the 'appointed interim President' was OUR choice as we learned from the leaked tapes of Nuland) to 'get tough'. Same old policies we see everywhere they go.

To mobilize the Ukraine military against its own people may be the last straw even for our allies in the EU.

[malaise]

4. I dare them

They created this entire mess

[sabrina 1]

6. The neo-cons/liberals have made all of this very difficult for Obama according to people

like Ray McGovern who states it was THEY who nearly got him into a war in Syria and are now pushing for similar tactics in Ukraine.

However he believes that Obama will 'not be stupid enough' to risk the relationship this country has with Russia.

I see someone has influenced the Kiev Coup Govt and the deadline has passed without the Ukraine military being mobilized. Hopefully this is a sign that wiser heads are prevailing.

But those neocons/libs don't give up easily, and won't until this country starts prosecuting them for their war crimes.

Nuland has deep ties to the neocons. It was SHE who was caught on tape orchestrating the Coup in Kiev. Imo, she should have been fired once those plans were exposed.

[dipsydoodle]

5. One of the main issues which brought this to a head

was east Ukraine's industrial output, covering everything from consumer goods to arms , none which would have any market whatsoever in the EU.

From today : European Council approves reduction of customs duties on Ukrainian goods http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/european-council-approves-reduction-of-customs-duties-on-ukrainian-goods-343432.html As best I can make out the duties were not very high in the first place.

And : Yatsenyuk supports sale of state companies.

Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk supports the continuation of the privatization and the necessity of focusing on regulatory and supervision functions by the state.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/business/yatseniuk-supports-sale-of-state-companies-343406.html

Those you mentioned simply want to remove one of Russia's cushions and I doubt they have any concern for the well being of Ukraine's population.

[AcertainLiz]

7. I guess Ukraine as a unified nation is going away?

Seems kind of unstable and scary...

[another_liberal]

10. When outside forces conspire with fringe radicals . . .

That is what happens when outside forces conspire with fringe radicals to overthrow a democratically elected government, and do so for self-serving economic and strategic motives, having no real concern for the good of the indigenous population as a whole.

[AcertainLiz]

14. Scary times...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

8. It's a little decieving.

There are ethnic Russians in those regions, but other than Crimea, it's a minority.

You have ethnic Ukrainians living in Eastern Ukraine who speak Russian because that's how they were raised. But just because they may speak Russian doesn't necessarily mean they consider themselves Russia or wish to join Russia. If Putin's thought process is that Russia will be welcomed with flowers simply because they speaka the language, he may be in for a very rude awakening.

[another_liberal]

9. Why is it always about "Putin" with you?

Just because someone might not be ethnically Russian doesn't necessarily mean they want to go down to economic ruin with the current leadership in Kiev (see reply #5 above).

By the way, why is it always about "Putin" with you? Isn't it about time you admitted this is a genuine, grass roots, people power style movement to breakaway from the interim government? You give the Russian President credit for having tremendous powers to turn people out for long term demonstrations on the streets of Ukraine. He is not exactly the U. S. State department, after all.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

13. Breaking away from one's country (and in all likelihood joining another) doesn't come easy

Precarious as the situation in Ukraine may be for its citizens, switching one's country is a little more complicated than, say, switching laundry detergents. You would have to transition to--literally--a foreign country and culture, with different laws and systems. For many ethnic Ukrainians, at the most all they would have in common with Russia might be their primary language. So it's silly to think that people would desire to change countries willy-nilly simply because things are rough. And to think that such a decision could be made within a matter of weeks is ludicrous.

I mentioned Putin in my post because he is the leader of Russia and clearly saw something to gain in Russia's interests in the annexation of Crimea (hence why he accepted Crimea into the Russian federation), and would likewise seem something to gain in any annexation of portions of mainland Ukraine. As it relates to Russia, the buck stops with him.

Now that is a totally different question than what is going on in the streets of Eastern Ukrainian cities. Could there be a grassroots element to at least some of those out there? Sure. I'm sure you do have ethnic Russians living in Ukraine who are participating in it. However, by all the looks of it, it's moved past the simple "people power" protest movement and transitioned into a full fledged paramilitary movement (far beyond what we saw on Maidan), and at that point you do have to wonder how much support these people are getting from those just across the border.

And frankly it's just silly for you to reject so cavalierly the idea that these militia men may be receiving material support from a country literally just a few miles away that shares a direct border, and yet in the same breath claim that the US State Department was pulling all the strings thousands of miles away at the Maidan protests to the point where the interim government was installed by them and for them. As if the Maidan protests were none of the "genuine, grass roots people power movement" that you claim these masked camo wearing, AK-47 welding men to be.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Why not ask the people what they want? A referendum overseen by the UN seems appropriate.

[another_liberal]

15. Let's hope calmer heads prevail.

Armed and violent confrontations would be tragic for all concerned.

[jwirr]

12. The question is: For or Against Russia. What a mess.

[another_liberal]

16. All we get are glimpses through a keyhole.

Last edited Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:44 AM - Edit history (1)

Events are moving at a dramatic pace.