I wonder what would happen if millions of people

[mmonk]

decided they didn't want to be exploited by health insurers anymore and dropped coverage? What would happen if millions decided to burn their insurance cards like many did with their draft cards during Vietnam? Would that bring down costs if people finally said *f* you?

[JHB]

1. I don't think millions would do that as a protest...

Draft card burners only had to consider consequences for themselves. Very few had kids who needed to go to the doctor.

However, I can see millions dropping because they just can't afford any of the plans (especially once you factor in high co-pays).

[mmonk]

2. While I do see millions do it for financial reasons

because they already have, how do you get a nation of people with no conscience search for something better? I hate that I may die and leave my sons, both with issues including but no limited to learning disabilities in such a shit hole.

[OneGrassRoot]

3. I agree. Maybe it's because I haven't had insurance....

in over a decade, but the whole concept of health insurance -- and the fact that any changes on the table are really attempts INSURANCE reform, not HEALTHCARE reform -- blows my mind.

I think most people in this country can't even CONCEIVE of a system in which private insurance isn't involved.

Can't even conceive of it. They completely equate insurance with healthcare; can't have healthcare without insurance like it's a natural law of the universe or something.

Craziness.

[el_bryanto]

5. They probably can conceive of it - they just equate it with Canada and Europe

Where they've been told socialized medicine leads to long delays and denial of coverage.

Bryant

[mmonk]

6. The question is what can we do to escape this unjust prison of a system?

How can we come up with a replacement on our own?

[OneGrassRoot]

11. No idea, but I keep sharing this site:

I know you've seen it before. I keep hoping they'll initiate a non-legislative-oriented initiative...lol.

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq

[dixiegrrrrl]

21. What you say is borne out

by the reactions of staff and patients in the waiting room at my doctor's office.
I have no outpatient insurance. ( I do have hospital insurance).
The receptionist has a bad habit, after I have signed in and sat down, of calling to me across the waiting room,
" Do you have insurance?" and when I say "no" I get these wide eyed startled looks from everyone in the room.

The dr. visit is only 70.00, no matter how much time it takes, and the scripts ( generic) are only 4.00 a month, out of pocket.

[Motown_Johnny]

4. Many would die because of a sudden illness or accident and no insurance

Count me out. I have insurance for a reason and dripping it now seems really stupid to me.

[mmonk]

7. The majority of medical bankruptcies are people that have private for profit insurance.

[Honeycombe8]

8. A lot of people would suffer, and some would die, w/o health care. Think about yourself....

for example: do you expect insurance to cover every visit you make to the doctor? If so, you are part of the problem. Do you expect ins. to cover elective services, like birth control pills and viagra? If so, you are part of the reason why ins. costs are so high.

Decades ago, insurance was only for big ticket items and certain things. Birth control pills (unless prescribed for a health condition) are elective and not medically related, so weren't covered. There was no viagra. Pregnancy wasn't covered. Everyone had to pay SOMETHING to go to the dr. And truth is, most people didn't run to the dr. every time their sinuses flared up or whatever.

But now, everyone wants to go to the dr. at the least little thing, convinced they have allergies and need medical treatment or whatever. And they don't want to pay a single dollar to do that. So....costs skyrocketed.

Health care providers had to raise their fees, in order to get paid decently, because the ins. cos. were involved and taking a piece of the pie.

Result: Care costs are now too high to go without insurance. (Used to be, care costs were more reasonable...it was actually possible to pay for your health care out of your own pocket.)

Ins. is now a part of the system and a part of the problem. Caused not just by the system, but also by people who wanted too much for too little.

[mmonk]

9. I'm not the problem with this system and I don't expect anything

but do believe our nation can come up with something better and more humane such as other countries have done.

[Honeycombe8]

27. I do, too. But we're talking about the current system, not something we wish we had. nt

[OneGrassRoot]

10. Big Pharma and healthcare for profit...

certainly influenced such actions by the consumer.

Profit -- consumer....two words I personally don't feel should be part of basic healthcare, preventive and acute. I realize "basic" is subjective, but still...

[just1voice]

12. You mean like 46 million people? They're already not insured.

The/us people do not matter, we'd all be propagandized into a "buy insurance or you're a terrible American" stupor if any protest occurred. Not only that, all protesters would immediately get "a file" that future employers would be able to secretly/illegally/but done anyway look at to deny people a job.

[mmonk]

17. Yes, I already noted those who can't afford coverage in the thread.

[NNN0LHI]

13. Insurance companies still have all the contracts for Medicare, Medicaid and government workers

Think you are going to get seniors and the disabled to burn their Medicare cards? Or get government employees to burn theirs?

Good luck with that one.

Don

[mmonk]

15. No but in a decent society, millions don't screwed while others are helped.

Medicare and Medicaid are still government programs.

[NNN0LHI]

18. Medicare and Medicaid claims are processed by private insurance companies

Here in Illinois Blue Cross has the contract for Medicare. My mother who is on my late fathers insurance from his job as a letter carrier has employee provided insurance, which also is contracted by Blue Cross.

Government programs or not, their claims are processed by private insurance companies.

Don

[mmonk]

19. The or not makes all the difference.

[Robb]

14. The poor underinsured are being oppressed. People who burned draft cards

...were protesting a war. There is a difference.

People who can afford to pay their own bills in an emergency, or relatively healthy and low-risk people, or people who do not have chronic illness or such people under their care -- in other words, the people most likely to consider dropping their insurance to stick it to the corporations -- are not the oppressed people here. They are also such a tiny fraction of the pie that any direct action such as you suggest would not be cataclysmic, but rather easily absorbed by the system, with the predictable results of increased cost for those remaining and decreased quality of care.

Thousands of people burning their draft cards on television sent a message to politicians to change policy or fear the repercussions of easily shifted public sentiment. Insurance companies cannot be voted out of office, they respond to the bottom line alone.

And that bottom line cannot be substantially affected by the actions of a minority of their customers, nor can it be expected to be affected by the majority who will face hardship and death if the onus is put on the oppressed to "free themselves."

A market-driven system that holds lives hostage must be starved gradually to ensure the safety of those lives caught within. The answer is increasingly onerous regulation, not direct action.

[mmonk]

16. Eventually, the currently comfortable will feel enough increases

Last edited Wed Mar 28, 2012, 09:42 AM - Edit history (1)

because it is a house of cards.

[TheKentuckian]

22. If the majority was sickly, insurance wouldn't work. It is the reverse.

If the young and healthy drop out the system cannot be sustained. The sick population would be paying care plus, no way in the world that can happen.

We appear to have no ability to institute regulations of any substance to even begin to alter the dynamic, the dynamic is unsustainable, it will crash whether anyone wants it to or not.

[Marrah_G]

20. but it will nevver happen :(

[Cleita]

23. Considering the majority of people get their health insurance through their jobs or unions,

not much would happen.

[mmonk]

24. True but I think less and less will through jobs as we move forward.

It will fail as it currently stands without a mandate. It's a house of cards.

[nobodyspecial]

25. Sounds pretty delusional

Dream on

[mmonk]

26. We dreamers dream of possibilities and say why not.

But I certainly don't expect Americans to stand up to much.