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"One of my least favorite Fox News shows is Morning Joe on MSNBC" (Original Post) FSogol Apr 2014 OP
So true! marew Apr 2014 #1
Agreed Gothmog Apr 2014 #9
Did you know Joe was once in congress? amuse bouche Apr 2014 #2
Even who killed the intern in his office. nt WhiteTara Apr 2014 #6
Nailed it! nt heliarc Apr 2014 #25
Exactly randys1 Apr 2014 #53
There is no statute of limitations WhiteTara Apr 2014 #56
Freaking perfect malaise Apr 2014 #59
True that! nt WhiteTara Apr 2014 #61
I thought he did. NYtoBush-Drop Dead Apr 2014 #65
he did know or ? WhiteTara Apr 2014 #67
TV's Frank is a national treasure! frylock Apr 2014 #3
Agreed. n/t FSogol Apr 2014 #4
Heard TV's Frank on Stephanie Miller a few times... he's still terrific Number9Dream Apr 2014 #45
I loved MST3k Separation Apr 2014 #69
We all watched those too. The ones w/ the guy looking for the killer bats of Mexico so hilarious. FSogol Apr 2014 #85
Ha! PROOF that MSNBC is bias! AlbertCat Apr 2014 #5
Maybe I misheard this morning ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #7
I heard the same thing! Dalai_1 Apr 2014 #58
I thought I heard what I heard ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #63
Not Exactly marle35 Apr 2014 #64
LOL! That is funny! nt City Lights Apr 2014 #8
Why can't I watch a news show where everyone agrees with ME??? brooklynite Apr 2014 #10
I don't care if they agree with me, but I hate to watch a show that insults my intelligence FSogol Apr 2014 #20
I think you have enough. nt ret5hd Apr 2014 #34
You're loaded. ALL of the news shows agree with you. LeftyMom Apr 2014 #51
A show about opinions which are open to disagreement is not 'news' but Bluenorthwest Apr 2014 #79
I disagree. Sure Joe annoys me at times but I don't want to listen..... Trust Buster Apr 2014 #11
Turn off the tv if nothing good is on. FSogol Apr 2014 #13
I disagree that it is nothing more than Right wing talking points but agree..... Trust Buster Apr 2014 #14
I love Eugene Robinson lark Apr 2014 #24
Same here. His work is wasted on that show. n/t FSogol Apr 2014 #26
I think of him as a bright light in their am darkness lark Apr 2014 #28
That, is an excellent way of describing it IMO. n/t RKP5637 Apr 2014 #22
I have heaven05 Apr 2014 #81
LOLOL Skittles Apr 2014 #16
Morning Joe sucks and he killed his intern. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #18
Joe is ignorant, a liar and another 'family values' fraud amuse bouche Apr 2014 #19
It is okay to listen to the other side except when your intelligence lets you mfcorey1 Apr 2014 #31
A choice between Morning Joe and "the curvy couch" is not much of a choice. And generally, the Squinch Apr 2014 #35
The should change the name of the show to Moaning Blow... Playinghardball Apr 2014 #12
Bazinga! TeamPooka Apr 2014 #15
TeeVee's Frank Nails It in One, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2014 #17
It's a lame show. We all quit watching it. Also, the photos they show of Mika and Joe RKP5637 Apr 2014 #21
slick ain't it Supersedeas Apr 2014 #82
I'm torn between calling it Morning Joke wheniwasincongress Apr 2014 #23
I vote for Morning Joke - n/t mazzarro Apr 2014 #74
The show has become nothing more than a panel of middle-aged narcissists Mike Daniels Apr 2014 #27
Hahahaha JohnnyRingo Apr 2014 #29
LOL deutsey Apr 2014 #30
The best, "Fuck you, Joe," I'll hear all week BeyondGeography Apr 2014 #32
Is there anything that makes some of you happy ? Trust Buster Apr 2014 #33
You got a very high horse there, binky. Expressing a dislike for an idiot is not the same as seeking Squinch Apr 2014 #36
Well binky, the Right wing says the main stream media is Left biased and.... Trust Buster Apr 2014 #37
And if we express dislike for the show, that's not a call for you to set us all straight Squinch Apr 2014 #39
I'm merely pointing out that constantly playing "the victim" card is..... Trust Buster Apr 2014 #43
And I am merely pointing out that your chastising people and telling them how wrong Squinch Apr 2014 #46
Oh, I'm sorry. I mistakingly thought this was a debate forum. Trust Buster Apr 2014 #48
Yes. So kindly in the future refrain from chastisement and stick to debate. Squinch Apr 2014 #49
I have spent the last 3 years on a forum that has a 60/40 right wing majority. Trust Buster Apr 2014 #50
Somehow, your time on the right wing forum doesn't surprise me. Squinch Apr 2014 #52
My opinion merely was that the Right wing always complains about... Trust Buster Apr 2014 #54
I never said anything that would even suggest that you are not entitled to your opinion. Squinch Apr 2014 #55
The right wing's complaints about the media.. sendero Apr 2014 #75
You obviously don't watch MSNBC between 8 - 11 at night. Trust Buster Apr 2014 #88
Wow.. sendero Apr 2014 #93
you seem concerned! stonecutter357 Apr 2014 #83
LOL. Disliking a show (your favorite it appears) is seeking perfection? FSogol Apr 2014 #41
TB has a valid point...it's the best morning show on television. Atman Apr 2014 #42
Thank you, that was all I was trying to get across Trust Buster Apr 2014 #44
Yep, when Joe is gone, it's not bad momrois Apr 2014 #62
Funny you say that because I usually fall asleep with MSNBC on and wake up to it too. Trust Buster Apr 2014 #77
Once again, MSNBC thanks you for your patronage... brooklynite Apr 2014 #38
My wife loves the stupid show. I suppose I should like it becasue it helps drives me out FSogol Apr 2014 #47
They should and could call and thank each viewer individually Bluenorthwest Apr 2014 #80
Totally agree...but yet the righties still claim MSNBC is 100% lefty. Atman Apr 2014 #40
MSNBC gravitates from RW with MJoe .. then by late night more LFT with Rachael and the rest. YOHABLO Apr 2014 #66
If you catch when Joe is not on TNNurse Apr 2014 #57
I have found Sherman A1 Apr 2014 #71
Ditto that 100% n/t mazzarro Apr 2014 #76
Kick n/t Dalai_1 Apr 2014 #60
DOH! I'm so going to steal that all over the place! n/t fleabiscuit Apr 2014 #68
K&R DeSwiss Apr 2014 #70
Politics aside King_Klonopin Apr 2014 #72
Today's MJ had a heated argument about whether the Bundy folks are terrorists... brooklynite Apr 2014 #73
Do you think that conversation would have happened if Joe had been on the air? Mike Daniels Apr 2014 #86
The story was actually about Harry Reid calling them terrorists. Gidney N Cloyd Apr 2014 #90
In other words, there would have been an argument... brooklynite Apr 2014 #91
Isn't it great to live in the US to have the freedom to bevable to choose which Thinkingabout Apr 2014 #78
My sentiments exactly, Trust Buster Apr 2014 #87
K&R stonecutter357 Apr 2014 #84
K & R cate94 Apr 2014 #89
Joe is so smarmy. And her thinks he's so hip and cool. Sorry, dude, RW and hip and cool Dark n Stormy Knight Apr 2014 #92

Separation

(1,975 posts)
69. I loved MST3k
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 02:16 AM
Apr 2014

Nat Geo recently on April 1st ran 3 or 4 animal episodes with the guys from MST3k doing their background schtick. My daughter who has never seen them was rolling on the couch and must now find them on Netflix, or Amazon

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
7. Maybe I misheard this morning ...
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 12:02 PM
Apr 2014

I was out of the room, getting my coffee; but they were doing a segment about Joe speaking to an audience of young conservatives ... and Joe related that a kid came up to him and asked that when Joe moves on to bigger and better things, that he give the MJ program to Mika ... so that there would continue to be a conservative presence on the show.

I hope I misheard the remark, but Mika keeps opening her mouth and conservative talking points keep falling out! So, I think I heard what I heard.

Dalai_1

(1,301 posts)
58. I heard the same thing!
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 08:09 PM
Apr 2014

thought I must surely have not heard correctly but evidently I did glad you posted this.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
63. I thought I heard what I heard ...
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 09:24 PM
Apr 2014

I was just hoping against MSNBC is the same as fox"news" hope, that Mika really was the liberal on the MSNBC=Fox network.

marle35

(172 posts)
64. Not Exactly
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 10:14 PM
Apr 2014

He said the kid told him that when he leaves the program to Mika that they should have a conservative within a 10 mile radius of the show.

It almost sounded the way you described, though!

FSogol

(45,446 posts)
20. I don't care if they agree with me, but I hate to watch a show that insults my intelligence
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 01:35 PM
Apr 2014

by pretending that Chris Christie and Jeb Bush are serious contenders in 2016 and that Benghazi and the IRS have doomed the Clintons.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
79. A show about opinions which are open to disagreement is not 'news' but
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 09:31 AM
Apr 2014

'commentary'. There are no actual news programs on MSNBC, it is all commentary. Joe is not a reporter, he's a pundit. To hide behind the word 'news' when discussing the punditry is pretty funny stuff.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
11. I disagree. Sure Joe annoys me at times but I don't want to listen.....
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 12:29 PM
Apr 2014

.....to just one side on the issues. Morning Joe has balance. Mika might not be the best to counter balance him though. She's somewhat weak when he goes off but others on the panel debate his positions. Watching Joe is good practice in developing counter arguments. Morning Joe is my favorite morning show. I don't even consider listening to the morons on the curvy couch. Life will never be as perfect as you want it folks...and life is too short as well.

FSogol

(45,446 posts)
13. Turn off the tv if nothing good is on.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 12:43 PM
Apr 2014

Morning Joe is little more than RW talking points in a friendly wrapper.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
14. I disagree that it is nothing more than Right wing talking points but agree.....
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 12:59 PM
Apr 2014

.....that no one is being forced to watch it.

lark

(23,061 posts)
24. I love Eugene Robinson
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 01:47 PM
Apr 2014

and he's a regular on the show. I will admit I often turn the sound off and only turn it on if he or some other progressive is on the show. If it were truly Faux Snooze Ezra Klein and Eugene Robinson would never be seen. Their ass kissing of Cristie is amazing off-kilter, though.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
81. I have
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 09:50 AM
Apr 2014

american 'news' has turned in the the dumb downs for americans. From NPR to MSNBC. There are a few exceptions, Rachael et al. But overall the Fox news standard is the standard everyone is striving for in the 'news' business in america in the 21st century. Pretty fucking sad. Go USA! Go USA!

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
18. Morning Joe sucks and he killed his intern.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 01:33 PM
Apr 2014

And it is nothing but RW talking points mostly said in a way to take you in.

mfcorey1

(11,001 posts)
31. It is okay to listen to the other side except when your intelligence lets you
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:14 PM
Apr 2014

know that they spewing lies.

Squinch

(50,911 posts)
35. A choice between Morning Joe and "the curvy couch" is not much of a choice. And generally, the
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:32 PM
Apr 2014

guests do NOT debate his positions. They generally nod and allow his right wing idiocy to pass into the airwaves unchallenged.

And "life will never be as perfect as you want it folks"? Really? Because we have expressed a dislike for Joe Scarborough? Gee. Glad you were here to teach us that.

The Magistrate

(95,241 posts)
17. TeeVee's Frank Nails It in One, Sir
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 01:24 PM
Apr 2014

I have never been able to stomach more then the opening credits of that damn thing....

"You're a waste of space."

RKP5637

(67,086 posts)
21. It's a lame show. We all quit watching it. Also, the photos they show of Mika and Joe
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 01:40 PM
Apr 2014

strutting around are ridiculous and laughable IMO.

Mike Daniels

(5,842 posts)
27. The show has become nothing more than a panel of middle-aged narcissists
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 01:51 PM
Apr 2014

all in a giant circle jerk over which one of them is the most "with it" vis a vis pop culture and sports.

The only people on the show I can even stand to listen to are Eugene Robinson (who appears for a few minutes usually to offer insight on his column) and Donny Deutsch (who is the only panelist who refuses to let Joe cut him off and who seems to be the only one who sees through Chris Christie's BS).

JohnnyRingo

(18,618 posts)
29. Hahahaha
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 01:57 PM
Apr 2014

Hilarious. At least they put him on while I'm still happily sawing logs.

Thanx for posting! K&R

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
33. Is there anything that makes some of you happy ?
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:26 PM
Apr 2014

You seek out a perfect existence in an imperfect world. On balance, I think Morning Joe is the best political morning show out there. Would love to see Rachel Maddow in Mika's chair as counterbalance but, on balance, I also like Eugene, Ezra, Steve and John.

Squinch

(50,911 posts)
36. You got a very high horse there, binky. Expressing a dislike for an idiot is not the same as seeking
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:34 PM
Apr 2014

a perfect existence in an imperfect world.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
37. Well binky, the Right wing says the main stream media is Left biased and....
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:46 PM
Apr 2014

.....the Left wing says the main stream media is Right biased. The Right calls Joe a RINO and the Left calls him an idiot. I find both positions to be weak and whiny. It's a free world. If you don't like the show, then don't watch it. Of course, that's unless you are a pathological "woe be me" complainer like so many Right wing nuts seem to be.

Squinch

(50,911 posts)
39. And if we express dislike for the show, that's not a call for you to set us all straight
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:51 PM
Apr 2014

along the path of your chastising opinions.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
43. I'm merely pointing out that constantly playing "the victim" card is.....
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:03 PM
Apr 2014

.....regularly the posture of the Right. It always appears to me to look pathetic and weak. The Left is better than that IMO. If you don't like the show, you don't have to watch it. If I felt as strongly against the show as some of you, I know I wouldn't watch it. What's your endgame here ?

Squinch

(50,911 posts)
46. And I am merely pointing out that your chastising people and telling them how wrong
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:14 PM
Apr 2014

they are to hold their opinions, and your use of non-sequitur phrases like "victim card" which are favored by right-wing trolls and which don't make any sense in the context of this conversation, are silly and obnoxious behaviors.

If YOU don't like the opinions being voiced here, YOU don't have to read them. What is YOUR end game here?

Enjoy your stay.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
48. Oh, I'm sorry. I mistakingly thought this was a debate forum.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:41 PM
Apr 2014

I didn't realize that DU rules demanded that everyone agree on all issues. You seem aggrieved. Typical.

Squinch

(50,911 posts)
49. Yes. So kindly in the future refrain from chastisement and stick to debate.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:59 PM
Apr 2014

Also, if you tone it down, and not pull right-wing-favored expressions like "victim card" and "aggrieved" out of your butt in such a nonsensical manner, you might be more convincing. Just a suggestion.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
50. I have spent the last 3 years on a forum that has a 60/40 right wing majority.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 04:12 PM
Apr 2014

I've been warring with the most vile individuals imaginable. They've called me every name in the book. I am war hardened you might say. You're using phrases like "refrain" and "tone it down" to the wrong cowboy. I'll express myself as I see fit and won't take direction from the likes of you. I'll use whatever phraseology that I deem appropriate. You need to know that your opinion of my debating style is of zero relevance to me. Got it ?

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
54. My opinion merely was that the Right wing always complains about...
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 04:31 PM
Apr 2014

.....the media and that has always come off as weak to me. I don't think the Left should take a page out of their play book. We have bigger fish to fry over the next two years. If you disagree with my opinion, then fine. But don't try telling me that I'm not entitled to my opinion. This has gone in a direction that was not intended. Let's say we go back to our respective corners for now ?

Squinch

(50,911 posts)
55. I never said anything that would even suggest that you are not entitled to your opinion.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 04:45 PM
Apr 2014

I was simply calling you out for chastising people and telling them they were wrong for holding THEIR opinions. You chose to bring in "victim cards" and stated that it is "typical" for those like me to be "aggrieved." Those all sound like words on placards. Usually misspelled.

I have no doubt that it has not gone in the direction you intended.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
75. The right wing's complaints about the media..
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 08:50 AM
Apr 2014

.. are bullshit on their face. There IS no liberal media in this country save a few backwater FM radio stations. None. Fox is not liberal, CNN is not liberal, ABC, NBC, CBS, none of them are remotely liberal. Even NPR is not really liberal any more no matter what some right wing hack tard says.

The media is ALL OWNED by monied interests and the "reporting" is 100% controlled. Reagan's killing of the Fairness Doctrine spelled the end of a fair and balanced media as surely as the recent SCOTUS decisions to treat money as votes will put the final nail in what we once had of a democracy.

Anyone even claiming the left viewpoint is anywhere on the MSM is automatically on my idiot list.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
93. Wow..
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 10:05 PM
Apr 2014

.... in a sea of right wing bullshit there is a tiny island of not right wing but not left either bullshit. I'm glad you are impressed.

FSogol

(45,446 posts)
41. LOL. Disliking a show (your favorite it appears) is seeking perfection?
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:57 PM
Apr 2014

I'll alert the Buddha!



Why do you care if I like Morning Joe or not?

Atman

(31,464 posts)
42. TB has a valid point...it's the best morning show on television.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:58 PM
Apr 2014

Yes, Joe sucks ass. Fortunately, he's out campaigning so much that he isn't there half the time. Yes, most of his regular panel are GOP stalwarts (or DINOs), but you will still hear a variety of opinions, unlike on Fox "News" and unlike the cooking and fashion segments on CNN, ABC, CBS or NBC. And don't even get me started on the fraud that is CPSAN's Washington Journal (try calling in...the Democratic line is NEVER open).

The right loves to think that MSNBC is just a left-wing Fox, but Fox never, ever devotes as much time to Democrats, either as guests or with their own shows. It's not even arguable. Joe sucks. But he sucks less than Fox "News."

momrois

(98 posts)
62. Yep, when Joe is gone, it's not bad
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 09:02 PM
Apr 2014

I always fall asleep with the TV on MSNBC. I wake up to Morning Joe, and leave it on while I read emails, Facebook etc. before work in the morning. When Joe is there, it does pretty much suck. If someone is near to making a point, he'll interrupt and talk over them, or he'll make childish remarks. A couple of weeks ago, when he was at a fundraising event in New Hampshire and Mika was in charge, there were some actual discussions.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
77. Funny you say that because I usually fall asleep with MSNBC on and wake up to it too.
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 08:59 AM
Apr 2014

I'd like to see a stronger Joe counterbalance. He cows Mika's to often. Now someone like Rachel Maddow sitting in Mika's seat would be interesting but Joe wouldn't stand for that.

brooklynite

(94,333 posts)
38. Once again, MSNBC thanks you for your patronage...
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:48 PM
Apr 2014

...if you didn't watch regularly, you wouldn't know what to complain about on the show...

FSogol

(45,446 posts)
47. My wife loves the stupid show. I suppose I should like it becasue it helps drives me out
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:21 PM
Apr 2014

of the house faster in the morning. The only side affect is she sometimes says things like, "I don't think Chris Christie knew about the bridge delays", which must have come out of Scarborough's pie hole. Our sons will then give her a hard time.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
80. They should and could call and thank each viewer individually
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 09:45 AM
Apr 2014

On Monday for example the total audience for Morning Joe was 332,000 with just 105,000 in demo. This is a national show with a viewership lower than many local morning shows in major markets. It is hard to be on TV and have so few watching.

Atman

(31,464 posts)
40. Totally agree...but yet the righties still claim MSNBC is 100% lefty.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:52 PM
Apr 2014

Scab's show is just a corporate-sponsored campaign commercial for his next attempt to get a free office in Washington, DC and live off of the taxpayers.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
66. MSNBC gravitates from RW with MJoe .. then by late night more LFT with Rachael and the rest.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 11:11 PM
Apr 2014

Did I just make a rhyme?

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
71. I have found
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 04:34 AM
Apr 2014

that not watching any cable news, network news or local news programs seems to improve life by several magnitudes.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
70. K&R
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 04:03 AM
Apr 2014
''Does GOP know that the pain & soreness you feel from pulling facts about Obamacare out of your ass is covered by Obamacare?'' ~Frank Conniff

King_Klonopin

(1,306 posts)
72. Politics aside
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 05:10 AM
Apr 2014

The dynamic between Shmoe and Mika is creepy. She fawns over him
like a high school cheerleader over the football jock. He bullies down
her opinions every time they are in disagreement with his own. He's an
absolute chauvinist. She's a lapdog who tries really hard (and fails) to
not appear subordinate or beholden to Mr Wonderful.

I think he's been shaggin' her for years (just like the interns). He finally
got the inevitable divorce (love to hear the wife's side). Just a matter
of time before the secret is let out of the bag. The show is un-watchable
because it is full of hubris, conceit, ego and sanctimonious bullshit based
on conservative delusions. Watch reruns of the Daily Show and Colbert
instead -- you'll feel better.

brooklynite

(94,333 posts)
73. Today's MJ had a heated argument about whether the Bundy folks are terrorists...
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 07:17 AM
Apr 2014

just like you'd expect to see on Fox News, right?

Mike Daniels

(5,842 posts)
86. Do you think that conversation would have happened if Joe had been on the air?
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 10:02 AM
Apr 2014

I watched the 6 and 7 o'clock segments and didn't notice Joe at the desk when they were discussing the Bundy incident.

As others have posted, when Joe's nowhere near the set you occasionally get a decent show where everyone gets to state an opinion without being constantly interrupted by the show's egomaniacal name-sake.

I'll go dollars to doughnuts that had Joe been at the desk today the Bundy topic would have been shut down immediately and Joe would have come close to having a stroke shouting down anyone who wanted to criticize Bundy.

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,819 posts)
90. The story was actually about Harry Reid calling them terrorists.
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 10:21 AM
Apr 2014

Given that Joe rarely misses an opportunity to rip Harry, yes I do think that conversation would have happened with Joe there.
I think Joe would have put up a stronger offense than his surrogate Nicole Wallace but it would have happened.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
78. Isn't it great to live in the US to have the freedom to bevable to choose which
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 09:10 AM
Apr 2014

Morning show to watch, watch the show then bitch because we don't like what we hear and see. I watch FOX from time to time to be able to argue effectively against the RW. I have been a fan of MJ for many years and at times find it annoying JS filibusters a conversation he doesn't want told. The directors should stop him from blurting out his opinion when others are speaking.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)
92. Joe is so smarmy. And her thinks he's so hip and cool. Sorry, dude, RW and hip and cool
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 03:27 PM
Apr 2014

cannot coexist in the same human.

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