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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTo demonstrate how things have changed...
I just took myself to lunch at a restaurant here in Center City Philadelphia. I as an individual have been a customer there since 1975 and my family attended the present owner's GRANDfather's seafood house from the 1930's through the late 1960's until it was sold/demolished to make room for the skyline which now proudly and esthetically dominates here.
It is a well-known seafood establishment which used to cater to the older, conventional folk who inhabited the residences on Rittenhouse Square and Kennedy Boulevard, but those people are nearly all "gone" and so it has become trendy, now owned by the grandson of the founder, having taken the helm from his father's capable hands.
Since it is lunch hour, I chose to sit at the Oyster Bar because there's no point taking up a deuce when they're in such demand. That's the kind of guy I am. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make...
The male server, as they're now called, comes up to me and stands, oh, maybe eight inches from my eyes and asks me the routine questions - meanwhile I'm leaning backwards since he's not my son or anything else for that matter. He seems disappointed in my order of Manhattan Clam Chowder ($7) and a dozen Cherrystone Clams ($16) and Coffee ($2.5) and asks me if I am going to be having anything else. I debated whether I should say to him, "If I wanted anything else, then I would have asked for it, would I not have?" but did not out of courtesy and the fact that he has a shot at my food. Anyway, the food comes, is delicious as usual, and the instant I put down my fork, he attends me and asks if "that will be all". I replied that normally I would ask for a second cup of coffee, but today, no thank you. That is a hint that he should have asked me but he was absolutely oblivious. the check appeared out of nowhere and here is the best part...
I placed two Twenties on a $27.50 check and he asks me if he should bring me the change. Very softly I asked him if he considered that twelve dollars and fifty cents tip on a twenty-seven dollar check might be a bit high...? Without a word, he took the check and brought me my change. I left him a five dollar tip, normally I would have left seven here since I have known some of the middle-aged (like me) waitresses, pardon me, servers, since they were in high school working there.
Had I seen the father of the owner, who eats lunch there occasionally, I would have said something to him in a "fun" manner, with some humor attached. I knew that if I spoke to his son, he would have an "answer" for me, as he has for everyone else who works or eats there, and I would get mad.
As a P.S., please allow me to say that I do this maybe twice a year. Good Friday I give my staff off (with pay) and come in, take emergencies before the Easter Holiday, and do paperwork. I buy myself a treat for being so magnanimous to everyone else.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)as the ones for your waiters? Please remember that they help other people besides you and what you consider obvious is not so to others.
Just seems kind of minor to be upset about. The difference between good and great service.
PCIntern
(25,518 posts)I know how to take an order and how to relate to a customer. This is not "good service" this is ATROCIOUS service. Your standards are obviously quite low.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)You place an order, you get your food, you get your bill you leave.
The reason he asked if you wanted change was he wanted to know if you needed change. Chances are he wasnt paying attention to the bill.
Next time check in on foursqaure, take a selfie and post it on Facebook and you'll find you got your money's worth. Having all your friend commenting how fabulous you are and lucky to eat at such a trendy place will be worth it
It sounds a bit like you went in disappointed cause it wasnt the place you remember.
What's their yelp rating, that tells us everything.
we can do it
(12,180 posts)This doesn't sound like good service, it is borderline poor, especially given the price.
Good day to you.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)like this server did is not even good service.
TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)Where does any of that sound like good service?
DiverDave
(4,886 posts)I would have left a buck if that twerp had treated me that way.
Obvious disdain because of a small order isn't "supurb service"
Oh, and I worked in restaurants for 12 years.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)unchanged.
PCIntern
(25,518 posts)it is sincerely appreciated.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)I won't bore you with the details but I worked my way through college and grad school
waiting tables. I took my job very seriously as did the majority of the staff I worked with.
This server did not earn the tip you left, you were generous.
we can do it
(12,180 posts)1000words
(7,051 posts)there were kids on your lawn.
PCIntern
(25,518 posts)Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Well played.
BeyondGeography
(39,367 posts)on the "male server's" part.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)His presumption of a 12.50 tip for that service should have earned him 50 cents and a note.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)It should not be a question asked. Should I bring you your change? Yep, would have been lucky to get a cent from me after that remark.
PCIntern
(25,518 posts)But I have to go back. I will say something to him if I have the same experience.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)It would be best not to greatly piss off those controlling your food. lol
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)PCIntern
(25,518 posts)There were two Kellys plain Kelly's and Kelly's of Mole St. Both excellent!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I did my time flipping burgers and always went out of my way to make sure my customers were doing fine, even as a short order cook.
You were way generous
Logical
(22,457 posts)PCIntern
(25,518 posts)And so is everyone else who
Participates in this masturbatory exercise known as message boards. It is a relatively harmless form of narcissism. If you meant that as an insult, you failed miserably. I am of the belief that you have posted that before. It's a trite and meaningless manner of raising your post count.
DiverDave
(4,886 posts)it off?
Full of YOUR self is more like it
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)There was nothing to call out.
JI7
(89,244 posts)even if the total was 24 and were given 25.
and the part where he asks if "that will be all" is where you ask for the second cup of coffee.
i don't really see what the problem is with asking if there will be anything else.
the thing is that people place orders differently. sometimes these questions are just a way to make sure they have the full info.
some people will order by mentioning one thing at a time and and wait for the server to ask "anything else" after each item.
i'm guessing in the old days when your grandfather went there things were a little different. people did not eat out as much and when they did it was seen as a much more formal occasion .
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Rudeness is the new manners, yr lcky guy wsnt txtng hs bff whl tkng yr rdr.
The in your face hint for a big tip was the killer here, even if they "ask everyone" they should have tact enough not to do it in ludicrous situations like the one you outline.
PCIntern
(25,518 posts)Thx fr yr npt!
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)...?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)And the asking if you want change "please give me all the change as a tip"..
Not so subtly trying to move the diner out the door to seat another tip isn't all that cool either.
"Will that be all?" is I suppose semantically close to "Can I get you anything else?" but it sure carries a different connotation.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)PCIntern
(25,518 posts)Is that your point?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)As defined by the great Louis CK in his concert film "Hilarious", these problems affect Americans in the middle to upper class. This is when your life is so amazing, that you make shit up to be upset about.
"Why do I have to choose a language on the ATM machine? This is bullshit, I shouldn't have to do that!"
This is in sharp contrast to real problems, experienced by people in other countries.
My English professor didn't truly grasp the depth of my thesis statement! ...By the way I know this doesn't matter at all, I'm just telling you my white people problems.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=white%20people%20problems
PCIntern
(25,518 posts)get back to me when you have a minute.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)I know the country club set probably doesn't indulge in such low-brow banalities but it's true. A quick internet search will prove this out -- when you have a minute -- if you aren't dressing-down the gutter snipes and all.
PCIntern
(25,518 posts)Just say "I apologize" and be done with this.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Sounds like a busy waiter to me reciting his lines by memory.
Unless the place was empty.
It's curious that you decided to say:
"Since it is lunch hour, I chose to sit at the Oyster Bar because there's no point taking up a deuce when they're in such demand. That's the kind of guy I am.
At any rate, I leave the standard tip, unless something extraordinarily good or bad happens.
PCIntern
(25,518 posts)there is always a high demand for a table for two and a single prevents them from seating the party until one more table opens. I was in the business for years and understand the need for maximizing each luncheon. The statement at the end was a 'funny'. I suppose there is no longer room for a sensayuma here.
I normally leave a standard tip - more here usually b/c I know so many of the staff. I did not stiff him...5 bucks on a 27 dollar total with tax is fine.
You OK with all this?
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)there are no longer Mods to put vanity posts like this into the Lounge.
Oh, and there's this little gem in your OP:
I debated whether I should say to him, "If I wanted anything else, then I would have asked for it, would I not have?" but did not out of courtesy and the fact that he has a shot at my food.
So you think the waiter was going to spit in your food?
And it's totally ridiculous to take exception to a waiter asking if you want anything else off the menu.
For all you know, he may have had his manager ask him to say that.
DiverDave
(4,886 posts)Why have a problem with it?
I know it's a lost concept to most...
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Honestly, I'm at a loss to see what so many apparently are seeing; but then again I don't get to throw $27 for lunch.
PCIntern
(25,518 posts)Perhaps my 70-80 hour work weeks some weeks entitle me to a lunch out a couple of times a year without your permission or appreciation.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)(Which, by the way, makes your version of events extremely suspect.)
No one cares how you spend your money (well, the resident socialist do but nobody likes them). The fact remains you get to spend your money in luxury; you have privilege and yet you complain about things that only a person of privilege could complain about. On the rare occasion Lover Boy and I have a sit-down dining experience our servers go through pretty much the same routine and they seem perfectly pleasant to us; and we're grateful for their efforts. I'm willing to bet your server also works his butt off yet he has a lot less to show for it plus the experience of having to wait on you.
Case in point: The reason he asked about the change to bring you was -- I'll wager -- to see if you wanted the fewest number of bills, i.e. one $10, two $1s and two quarters; or did you want to a pair of $5 bills, more singles, etc. An experienced server would recognize this.
PCIntern
(25,518 posts)Mm-hmm.
PCIntern
(25,518 posts)this is not a vanity post any more than any other post on a message board is a vanity post. To understand the metamorphosis of business and personal etiquette in America is as important as anything since we as a Nation are collectively owned by business whether we like it or not. I was of course, simply pointing out that times, they are a'changing. But only if that is all right with you.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)just going through the motions and doing the routine.
PCIntern
(25,518 posts)Just poorly.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)is what drives me nuts. We can't carry on a conversation most of the time. I rarely go out to eat anymore!
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)and it never came.
One, when I was waiting tables back in the 80s, we called them servers too.
Two, a good majority of us singletons would never even think to sit at a deuce when there is counter service available, so I'm not sure if this was intended to show what a good customer you were or what.
Three, a VERY good many restaurants demand that their serving staff ask if you are going to be having anything else. In fact, not upselling can be grounds for termination in many restaurants.
Four, asking if you would like change is almost a Pavlovian response for servers. I am sure he did not even look at the loads of money you had piled on the table and simply said the thing he says when there is a 20, a 100, etc on the table. Next time use a credit card if that question bothers you.
Five, I can't see why you would cut your usual tip for what sounds to me like typical service.
Six, luckily the grumps of the world are balanced out by those of us who don't find fault in everything/everyone.
It sounds like you have "Good Ole Days-itis..." and it simply wasn't that "good." I would hope this son's father (who I am sure, gladly handed the business over when it was time and would like to see his son succeed) would not find your "fun" comment "fun."
My advice? Next time, eat at home. Or, go to Sonic... but remember to tip your carhop. They only make server's wages, and people screw them all the time because they think you have to work indoors to actually be a server, even though these Sonic carhops do the same job in all sorts of weather. It's often why I tell them to "keep the change" out of 20 dollars on a 7 dollar order.
PCIntern
(25,518 posts)wow...
I've only been here 10 years, so what do I know????
OK...you tip 13 dollars on a 7 dollar check. good for you, you like to spread it around, and I, when I did that job, would smile to myself when someone like you would come in...and I was most appreciative, since it only happened, maybe once in 8 weeks where I worked.
...and OK, your para about the fact that I shouldn't eat out is similar to those people who tell me not to watch TeeVee if I see something objectiionable. Yeah that's the answer...
And you know...his Dad would have enjoyed the conversation inasmuch as I've known him, what...40 years in one venue or another including Hebrew School, but again, what do I know? I enjoy it when a patient tells me something he or she overheard up front, but in a nice and friendly way, that lets me know something's going on which I should act upon. I know how to take feedback from patients/customers.
I don't find Pavlovian responses appropriate in the business or professional world. Measured, reasonable response is critical. If you were, God forbid, to have a massive abscess from a neglected tooth, my Pavlovian response would be, what the Hell were you thinking letting this get so out of hand? But...no...I don't do that. I'm kind and gentle and attempt to FIX THE PROBLEM, NOT THE BLAME. So Pavlov has nothing to do with my response. I don't really expect it to have anything to do with anyone else's.
And one more thing...my post, I thought, had a bit of wit to it: that's why I distinguished between the term waiter and server...sort of like how people distinguish other words here, rather than utilize the archaic version of the classification to which they are referring. But again, I don't expect anyone to have a sense of humor and rather than giving up going out to restaurants, maybe I should give up my expectations in that regard. and also, It isn't like I stiffed the guy, which I would never do. I gave him the appropriate tip...maybe not for YOU who like to tip almost 200%, for which I gave you credit, but I didn't have a $100.00 bill on me - I should have thought to get in touch with you.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)I cannot afford to eat at places where a bowl of soup is 7 bucks and a few clams would set me 16 dollars. A proper tip for that alone would bring the bill up to over 35-37 dollars.
I think you intended for it to be funny, and it fell short. I don't see anything out of the ordinary with your experience. I also think you might be surprised at how the owner's father would have reacted. When I am in a disgruntled mood, I tend to do my dining at home.
1000words
(7,051 posts)That should balance out any disappointment you have in the decline of humanity.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)I'm still trying to figure out exactly what was "bad" about this service.
egduj
(805 posts)Sounds like pretty shitty service to me. Fortunately for me that kind of service in the parts I live is still not the norm. And that part about asking if you want change I.don't recall has ever been asked of me.
Maybe I don't eat out enough.
PCIntern
(25,518 posts)it is business as usual here.
there's a term for it but if I used it, I'd get alerted upon and it isn't worth it....not for this.
If I posted that 2+2=4, there'd be objections that I was discriminating against odd numbers...
thanks for the response!
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)Thank you for your consideration.
treestar
(82,383 posts)They may not look and sometimes the tipper does include the tip when paying with cash. What I would do, is what some of them do, is bring back the change regardless. They can always leave it on the table.
It is probably smart to ask if you want anything else at least at the end. A chance to make a sale and increase the tip. So long as there is not pressure. This guy seems to think he was doing the hard sell thing and that successful people do that. I'm not sure that is really true, but it's a belief that is out there.
Phentex
(16,334 posts)I think it's rude and should never be asked.
Asking if I'd like to order anything else is okay with me because sometimes there IS something I'd like. Just recently I was out to dinner with my son and the server brought the bill before even asking us if we wanted dessert. When my son asked for the dessert menu, the server had to change the bill. Too bad. I did not find it rude, but it would have saved some trouble had we been asked first.
I don't mind when the server says, "I'll take this whenever you are ready but if there's anything else you'd like, just let me know." Many of them will ask if they can clear the bill but politely add that there is no rush for the table.
Have you read Garlic and Sapphires? NY Times food critic goes undercover and reports back on service received. I could relate to many of the instances!