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LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 05:09 PM Apr 2014

Artist gives birth to vaginal painting

Oh, performance art. You never cease to amaze us.

The latest instance of eye-opening art spectacle comes to us courtesy of Swiss artist Milo Moire. During this year's Art Cologne fair in Germany, she "gave birth" to an artwork by seemingly squeezing paint eggs out of her vagina onto an empty canvas. She did so in a very public space outside the fair, providing unsuspecting passersby with a visual overload of a nude woman laboring -- quite literally -- for the sake of art.

"The 'PlopEgg Painting'...releases a loose chain of thoughts -- about the creation fear, the symbolic strength of the casual and the creative power of the femininity," the video's description reads. "At the end of this almost meditative art birth performance the stained canvas is folded up, smoothed and unfolded to a symmetrically reflected picture, astonishingly coloured and full of [strength]."

Moire is no stranger to boundary-pushing performance. For her "Script System" piece, the artist rode public transit in her birthday suit, surprising more than a few commuters with her unabashed nudity. She follows in the footsteps of a long line of provocative artists -- Marina Abramovic, Yoko Ono, Franco B -- who have used forms of nudity as a means of artistic disruption.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/19/milo-moire_n_5174257.html



Video is NSFW.
164 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Artist gives birth to vaginal painting (Original Post) LittleBlue Apr 2014 OP
Wow, roughly as impressive as men squirting paint out of their thangs... cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #1
That would be seminal art, though n/t eridani Apr 2014 #138
Ok that's a DUzy Flying Squirrel Apr 2014 #151
hope the paint was nontoxic hypoallergenic eShirl Apr 2014 #2
Just served on a jury for this. Kaleva Apr 2014 #3
Any results? nt LittleBlue Apr 2014 #7
5-2 to leave it. Kaleva Apr 2014 #12
Hell yeah LittleBlue Apr 2014 #13
I understand why people alerted, this is just so wrong Warpy Apr 2014 #19
LOL! Trailrider1951 Apr 2014 #23
you had a naked woman, in the middle of square and even that could not draw a crowd to her stupid. seabeyond Apr 2014 #26
Sometimes it's wiser to let things stand Warpy Apr 2014 #40
here's a good twerking video for refreshment Voice for Peace Apr 2014 #41
Thank goodness Firefox no longer shows videos. Warpy Apr 2014 #45
it's a very cute dog. gives twerking a new and warmhearted meaning Voice for Peace Apr 2014 #47
Oh, an antidote to the unfortunate visual in my post Warpy Apr 2014 #48
I use Firefox... TeeYiYi Apr 2014 #49
that's hysterical lillypaddle Apr 2014 #108
This is Germany. joshcryer Apr 2014 #69
WTF Go Vols Apr 2014 #4
My thought exactly..... n/t bobGandolf Apr 2014 #153
Perhaps the "vaginal knitter" will knit a gift in honor of the blessed event. 1000words Apr 2014 #5
Impressive, but I prefer... TeeYiYi Apr 2014 #6
Who could top that...nt Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #28
I'm just glad she did not use a knitting machine intaglio Apr 2014 #30
I've got one of those ladders. dipsydoodle Apr 2014 #8
lol hipsters d_b Apr 2014 #9
I was expecting the onion nt arely staircase Apr 2014 #10
She's gonna shoot an onion from there? msanthrope Apr 2014 #142
Love it. WilliamPitt Apr 2014 #11
Surprised it was censored. joshcryer Apr 2014 #68
just because it is allowed does not mean that the poster may not use discretion. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #114
Damn, why did I even waste my time going to art school? Throd Apr 2014 #14
um..... that's actually a very good question.... kiawah Apr 2014 #94
That is the most disgusting thing I've ever seen with the label of art Gman Apr 2014 #15
There's a LOT of marions ghost Apr 2014 #39
No matter how many times or how loufdly people whistler162 Apr 2014 #52
Performance art solicits a response 1000words Apr 2014 #53
That Is The Standard Lame Excuse ProfessorGAC Apr 2014 #70
"Solicit" 1000words Apr 2014 #71
The standard lame rebuttal... marions ghost Apr 2014 #73
I Don't Need Your Help, Thanks Anyway ProfessorGAC Apr 2014 #154
Meh, I give no approval or disapproval marions ghost Apr 2014 #160
Is this Art? marions ghost Apr 2014 #163
When he was a child, my son used to play "The Game" demwing Apr 2014 #79
Your son is brilliant marions ghost Apr 2014 #87
Well thanks a lot OriginalGeek Apr 2014 #107
There are other opinions marions ghost Apr 2014 #72
It makes a helluva lot if sense that Gman Apr 2014 #131
Not by your definition marions ghost Apr 2014 #133
The most biting criticism of performance art: 1000words Apr 2014 #135
That's really true of so many things marions ghost Apr 2014 #136
Gotta agree with your last statement Gman Apr 2014 #141
OK marions ghost Apr 2014 #144
I think anything that doesn't contribute directly to your physical survival is "art". Marr Apr 2014 #150
yeah and marions ghost Apr 2014 #159
It's shock value stupidity. Marr Apr 2014 #149
Gawd, Rembrandt is turning in his grave NV Whino Apr 2014 #16
Even Jackson Pollock Warpy Apr 2014 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author LostOne4Ever Apr 2014 #63
Meh...anybody can do that... pipi_k Apr 2014 #17
Ok - that was funny. nt cyberswede Apr 2014 #25
Some guy back in the nineties, can't remember his name rrneck Apr 2014 #50
DUzy! n/t eridani Apr 2014 #147
Silly. undeterred Apr 2014 #18
At least she wasn't degraded by being on the cover of a sports magazine The Straight Story Apr 2014 #21
She'd be better off on the cover of SI Gman Apr 2014 #37
We were talking about the desperate attempts of youth to try and "shock" and call it art. KittyWampus Apr 2014 #22
I agree marions ghost Apr 2014 #93
Enema Art Anyone Politicalboi Apr 2014 #24
...hmmmm, a squat and paint art form! RKP5637 Apr 2014 #103
Women pulling or pushing something out of their vagina marions ghost Apr 2014 #27
Sooner or later women will run out of things to insert/remove ... 1000words Apr 2014 #29
Maybe but still "fertile ground" ha ha marions ghost Apr 2014 #32
LOL 1000words Apr 2014 #34
And i was on the jury for the silly alert on this one...6-0 stand EX500rider Apr 2014 #58
as was I Sherman A1 Apr 2014 #59
What exactly was taken offense? 1000words Apr 2014 #60
I believe Sherman A1 Apr 2014 #62
lol ... Shock value? The thread about vaginal painting! 1000words Apr 2014 #64
Well, Sherman A1 Apr 2014 #65
Thanks for the words of support marions ghost Apr 2014 #81
My pleasure Sherman A1 Apr 2014 #83
I've never seen nor heard of Trunick, but that photo and event you showed is actually quite lovely. KittyWampus Apr 2014 #100
he's not as well known as he should be marions ghost Apr 2014 #162
"I find the human form to be a thing of intrinsic beauty" demwing Apr 2014 #82
You have Your opinion Sherman A1 Apr 2014 #84
Humanity in its various forms marions ghost Apr 2014 #86
What about juror number seven? Orrex Apr 2014 #97
woops.......0-7 i meant.... n/t EX500rider Apr 2014 #98
Oh, sure. Now your story's changing. Orrex Apr 2014 #99
I bet dollars to donuts they ran out sometime in the early days of the roman empire MattBaggins Apr 2014 #139
A couple days a month, most premenopausal women could do this without paintballs. pnwmom Apr 2014 #55
Same here. joshcryer Apr 2014 #67
Who knew Kegel and Rorschach could be such an inspiration in art. Glassunion Apr 2014 #31
I sure hope she sold well... LadyHawkAZ Apr 2014 #33
fucking idiot JI7 Apr 2014 #35
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #54
How pathetically... 3catwoman3 Apr 2014 #36
Exactly Gman Apr 2014 #38
This is just like Jim Carey bending over and using his hands to move his butt cheeks MattBaggins Apr 2014 #140
At least she didn't degrade herself by appearing on the cover of the swimsuit issue of SI. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #42
Well, it's hard to airbrush a live person. cyberswede Apr 2014 #43
True. It is her idea and she's carrying it out treestar Apr 2014 #92
*** Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #148
Bird Shit Art rug Apr 2014 #44
Like I described ina different thread... Archae Apr 2014 #46
I can give this points for good muscular control, but beyond that, not much! n/t RKP5637 Apr 2014 #51
She ain't gettin' squat for these paintings Blue Owl Apr 2014 #56
From a business perspective, she laid an egg. 1000words Apr 2014 #57
As a sex-positive feminist.....I say, more power to her! nt AverageJoe90 Apr 2014 #61
cool story, bro. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #113
Whatever you say, Tuesday. Whatever you say. nt AverageJoe90 Apr 2014 #119
She's claiming she says that to any man who is a sex positive feminist... Violet_Crumble Apr 2014 #156
I guess art is no longer in the eyes of the beholder LostOne4Ever Apr 2014 #66
They are both art marions ghost Apr 2014 #75
So is it art if I piss my name in the snow? Major Nikon Apr 2014 #80
Maybe marions ghost Apr 2014 #89
You mean there are bad, unskilled ways to squirt paint out of your cooch? Frank Cannon Apr 2014 #109
Like I said marions ghost Apr 2014 #124
I'll tell you a story. rrneck Apr 2014 #137
DUzy!!! nt msanthrope Apr 2014 #143
Yes. rrneck Apr 2014 #96
You never know Mosby Apr 2014 #123
Such a long time after Duchamp's urinal too marions ghost Apr 2014 #125
If a bystander had kicked one of the scaffolds out from under her, would that be art? Orrex Apr 2014 #90
Wow --I am NOT saying that everything is art marions ghost Apr 2014 #91
Well, that's not really an answer Orrex Apr 2014 #95
Your assumption marions ghost Apr 2014 #104
What are those boundaries? And who decides them? Orrex Apr 2014 #106
Yes--it is art because enough somebodies agree it is marions ghost Apr 2014 #120
Your putting words into my mouth LostOne4Ever Apr 2014 #118
OK I took you seriously marions ghost Apr 2014 #121
The emperor is obviously naked, as well. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #74
Vibrant and provocative. AngryAmish Apr 2014 #76
Lebowski anyone? Boom Sound 416 Apr 2014 #77
Nihilists! Fuck me... demwing Apr 2014 #85
I am the walrus Boom Sound 416 Apr 2014 #88
Shut the fuck up Donny!!! Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Apr 2014 #145
"Do you like coitus, Mr Lebowski?" ProudToBeBlueInRhody Apr 2014 #111
Johnson? Boom Sound 416 Apr 2014 #117
Well... 99Forever Apr 2014 #78
A dozen chili burgers and some Ex-lax would have eliminated the need for eggs. L0oniX Apr 2014 #101
anatomy. you might want to study it. - Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #112
Pushing stuff out of the body ...you might want to study it. L0oniX Apr 2014 #130
That is not what you said. As for Art/Performance Art, I could give/take a shit. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #146
The confusion and lack of of sense of humor is all yours. L0oniX Apr 2014 #157
So what is the name of her act? Generic Brad Apr 2014 #102
+1 Frank Cannon Apr 2014 #110
Thread Winner. Game Over. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #115
Creative interpretation marions ghost Apr 2014 #122
Germans. tabasco Apr 2014 #105
HoooWeee! 2naSalit Apr 2014 #116
I love how the guy is snapping away at 1:32 Reter Apr 2014 #126
This message was self-deleted by its author closeupready Apr 2014 #127
eeeew Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #128
I agree marions ghost Apr 2014 #134
Great way to color easter eggs (nt) The Straight Story Apr 2014 #129
"Your wife was just showing us her Klimt" Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #132
Oy gevalt! Jake Stern Apr 2014 #152
For once I am speechless... yuiyoshida Apr 2014 #155
amazing. . . She call this art SHAMELESS? B Calm Apr 2014 #158
I think I just got sick... Xyzse Apr 2014 #161
LOL +1 B Calm Apr 2014 #164

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
1. Wow, roughly as impressive as men squirting paint out of their thangs...
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 05:12 PM
Apr 2014

the true artist, however, paints with their nose, on the canvas of the handkerchief...

Oh, and of course "wiping their ass on the flag."

Warpy

(114,585 posts)
19. I understand why people alerted, this is just so wrong
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 05:55 PM
Apr 2014

but I'd have voted to leave it, too.

If she wasn't showing her titties, nobody would look. As it is, few do. That's because it's just so wrong.

I've just decided not to share the video of 3 assless young chicks twerking to classical music. That's wrong, too.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
26. you had a naked woman, in the middle of square and even that could not draw a crowd to her stupid.
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 06:55 PM
Apr 2014

but du... ya, one of our guys that fight most against womens issues consistently, is here cheering his ability to get it thru jury.

whatta man

Warpy

(114,585 posts)
40. Sometimes it's wiser to let things stand
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 07:52 PM
Apr 2014

so everybody knows exactly where the poster is at.

Remember, some people teach best by bad example.

Warpy

(114,585 posts)
45. Thank goodness Firefox no longer shows videos.
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 08:05 PM
Apr 2014

I've got proxies to work on before I bother fixing the glitch.

However, other people might appreciate the learning experience you have provided.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
47. it's a very cute dog. gives twerking a new and warmhearted meaning
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 08:22 PM
Apr 2014

judging by the warmhearted learning experience I had when I watched it.

One of these guys.. except an adult.

Warpy

(114,585 posts)
48. Oh, an antidote to the unfortunate visual in my post
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 08:24 PM
Apr 2014

which, believe me, was not nearly as bad as the video that provoked it.

I'll watch it when I've coped with the glitch.

joshcryer

(62,536 posts)
69. This is Germany.
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 05:40 AM
Apr 2014

Germany has extreme sexual stuff, this literally wouldn't cause most Germans to bat an eye. Especially outside of an art facility? Pfft.

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
30. I'm just glad she did not use a knitting machine
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 07:26 PM
Apr 2014

... the rope burn could have been terrible

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
114. just because it is allowed does not mean that the poster may not use discretion.
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 01:54 PM
Apr 2014

duh and derp.

Gman

(24,780 posts)
15. That is the most disgusting thing I've ever seen with the label of art
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 05:45 PM
Apr 2014

No, it's not art in any way, shape or form. The woman needs to be in serious therapy.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
39. There's a LOT of
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 07:50 PM
Apr 2014

performance art --ever since the 60's --involving the body that's pretty disgusting and kinda primitive. By men and women. It's almost traditional by now.

It's still performance art. Kinda gross, like pole-dancing and other funky body stuff ...

 

whistler162

(11,155 posts)
52. No matter how many times or how loufdly people
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 08:56 PM
Apr 2014

say it is "performance" art it isn't. They aren't artists they aren't creating art. Too many people are the emperor from the "Emperor's New Clothes".

 

1000words

(7,051 posts)
53. Performance art solicits a response
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 09:00 PM
Apr 2014

The very fact you weighed in with an opinion means not only did you give it validation, you've become part of the creation.

ProfessorGAC

(76,622 posts)
70. That Is The Standard Lame Excuse
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 06:13 AM
Apr 2014

Eliciting a response is the intent of all performance and all art of all media. So the suggestion that the elicitation of a response automatically makes it art is intellectually lazy and far too convenient.

I've heard this excuse so many times that it is clearly the standard response. Sorry if it seems like i'm hammering you. I'm more hammering the weak typical rejoinder.

This is not art. It's not performance art. And simply getting a rise out of people doesn't make it art. The Boston bombers got a rise out of people too. That doesn't make it art.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
73. The standard lame rebuttal...
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 07:45 AM
Apr 2014

"It's not art" is not really relevant.

What does matter is to say why to you it's not good or important art. Why does it not rise to the level of what you call worthwhile art? No point in arguing over whether or not it falls in the realm or category of performance art. Enough people in the field have decided that it does.

Just trying to help you avoid tired, standard, typical responses when you see art you don't like.

ProfessorGAC

(76,622 posts)
154. I Don't Need Your Help, Thanks Anyway
Mon Apr 21, 2014, 05:33 AM
Apr 2014

I tried to help people quit using "tired, standard, typical responses" to explain to us plebians why something is art when there the artistic value is not apparent.

I don't need to be treated like an uneducated buffoon because i don't understand. I understand the attempt completely. I don't believe it's art.

Your approval is not required to validate the opinions of others.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
160. Meh, I give no approval or disapproval
Mon Apr 21, 2014, 09:29 AM
Apr 2014

and I can't educate anybody who's not open to dialogue.

People can take it or leave it. I can only argue my side of the issues. I try to make what I say on this topic accessible to others, because there are a LOT of people who are mystified about art these days, and I don't blame them. It's an esoteric subject, and if you haven't been exposed to it much, you might have some questions about it. (rhetorical "you"--do I need to say that?)

But you choose to take my effort to be all-inclusive as dumbing it down to you personally. That doesn't seem logical to me. I don't have any need to do that nor do I think you're an "uneducated buffoon." You must be a professor so you can't be uneducated. All I know about you from this is you have a bee in your bonnet about "what art is." I really don't. I just enjoy chatting about it with anybody, and I hope more people--especially intelligent liberals--keep an open mind about it.

Nowhere in this thread have I set myself up as an authority. I just make the case that art professionals--curators, critics, art writers, museum directors, galleries, educators, etc--have a weight of authority on their side about "what is art." They do get to define it within the cultural institutions they inhabit. They do get to select. They do get to validate it, with proper documentation and explanation. You may not agree with their choices and that's your right. Sure there are bad movies, bad books, bad art. But it's still film, literature and art. I am suggesting to critique it, but not resort to the lame "it's not art" put-down just because you don't personally like it.

Saying you "don't believe it's art"--sounds authoritarian for no good reason.

If there's anything more to say, say it. Otherwise let's let it go. It's only art. Can't hurt ya.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
79. When he was a child, my son used to play "The Game"
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 08:20 AM
Apr 2014

The rules were simple:

1. If you think about "The Game" you're playing "The Game"

2. If you're playing "The Game," you've lost "The Game."

3. The only way to win "The Game" is to ignore "The Game"

Either my 10 year old son was a brilliant performance artist, or performance art has all the emotional maturity of an adolescent boy, developmentally situated somewhere between picking his nose in public and masturbating in the shower.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
87. Your son is brilliant
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 09:30 AM
Apr 2014

and I'm sure you were proud of him then and now.

His "rules" apply to many things.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
72. There are other opinions
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 07:33 AM
Apr 2014

about what is art than yours. Might not be good art, but it is in the realm of art.

Anyway--is it art? is a tired debate.

Just take it at face value and don't feel the need to reject it on that basis. Reject it on some basis that makes more sense.

Gman

(24,780 posts)
131. It makes a helluva lot if sense that
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 07:27 PM
Apr 2014

that ain't art in any way shape or form. It's a pity someone wound have such low standards that they would call this art.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
133. Not by your definition
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 08:34 PM
Apr 2014

and that's OK. But by some people's definition, it is. I don't love it--but I defend it as performance art. It does make the viewer think about things they wouldn't think about otherwise. Yes, it exhibitionistic, maybe narcissistic, maybe even boring. But these body oriented performances do have a long history in the realm of art. You and I probably wouldn't agree on what is interesting and what is a waste of time. Live and let live. Art is all about being open and tolerant. It's just art. Doesn't hurt anybody. Totally optional.

But thanks for weighing in on it. It always makes sense to talk about reactions to this kind of stuff. Better to have an opinion than no opinion at all.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
136. That's really true of so many things
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 08:45 PM
Apr 2014

--we are what we choose to pay attention to. Every day I see or hear stuff I choose to ignore. This is no different.

At least if you don't like it, it's temporary. It's the stuff that's NOT temporary that bothers me.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
150. I think anything that doesn't contribute directly to your physical survival is "art".
Mon Apr 21, 2014, 12:18 AM
Apr 2014

That's everything from sprinkles on cookies to chalk doodles to sculpture. That doesn't mean it's worth examining, of course.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
159. yeah and
Mon Apr 21, 2014, 08:56 AM
Apr 2014

there's all sorts of artforms--cooking, gardening, parenting, carpentry, medicine, etc. Anything creative beyond survival basics qualifies in the broad definition.

In this thread we're talking about what elevates this performance piece to the level of Art, of the kind that is exhibited or performed for no "useful" purpose. Art --as an expression of thought or emotion. Art that provokes a response in the viewer. Art that is created for no other purpose than to communicate something of value. Art that feeds the soul or the head. Art is no longer essential or practical in the way that it was before photography, or when it was mainly a vehicle for religious imagery. These days art can be, but never has to be, practical in any way. It has a function in the culture, in that it creates experience and extends dialogue about the human condition.

So it's a narrower definition here. But, good point. No form or material is too lowly to be called art. Just depends what you do with it.

NV Whino

(20,886 posts)
16. Gawd, Rembrandt is turning in his grave
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 05:48 PM
Apr 2014

As are Mary Cassatt, Artemisia Gentileschi, Suzanne Valadon and Rosa Bonheur, to mention only a few of the great women artists.

Response to Warpy (Reply #20)

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
17. Meh...anybody can do that...
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 05:50 PM
Apr 2014

You know what's really impressive?


Eating a box of Crayolas and shitting out the Mona Lisa.

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
50. Some guy back in the nineties, can't remember his name
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 08:35 PM
Apr 2014

gave himself paint enemas and, um, expelled the medium onto canvas. My first thought was, "Any asshole can do that".

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
21. At least she wasn't degraded by being on the cover of a sports magazine
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 06:11 PM
Apr 2014

This is pretty tame in comparison

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
22. We were talking about the desperate attempts of youth to try and "shock" and call it art.
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 06:15 PM
Apr 2014

Doing something you think will shock isn't being avant garde.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
93. I agree
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 10:14 AM
Apr 2014

Shock isn't really cutting edge in art anymore. We are all more shock-resistant. Artists have to work really hard at it if that's the goal. Still possible, but you see a lot of half-baked attempts.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
27. Women pulling or pushing something out of their vagina
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 07:16 PM
Apr 2014

--not a new theme. This woman is following in Carolee Schneemann's footsteps ( a famous 60's-70's performance artist), and others.

I don't think it's nearly as shocking today as then, but still makes a point about the female body and how we view it.

 

1000words

(7,051 posts)
29. Sooner or later women will run out of things to insert/remove ...
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 07:19 PM
Apr 2014

and gimmick will give way to cliché.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
32. Maybe but still "fertile ground" ha ha
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 07:34 PM
Apr 2014

As far as public nudity I find this artist Spencer Tunick much more interesting (LOTS of his pix at this link:

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/07/the-naked-world-of-spencer-tunick/100344/



Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
62. I believe
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 05:13 AM
Apr 2014

it claimed to be a TOS violation in the posting of nudity and links to nudity (or as was claimed shock value and porn). I checked the links and Yes, there was nudity, but I found it to be in an artistic use of same and found no shock value as apparently the alerting member did. I find the human form to be a thing of intrinsic beauty (naturally perhaps some more than others, but that is for me to decide) and does not in and of itself cause me to be repulsed.

If the alerting member has a problem with the post, they are free to involve the mods or simply to trash it themselves. I really don't like the many posts about cats and kittens (which often seem to turn up in what I consider to be the wrong forums) and trash them without alerts or commenting in the threads. It seems some folks take this stuff way too seriously.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
81. Thanks for the words of support
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 08:36 AM
Apr 2014

The alert shows exactly why Spencer Tunick's work has value. It evokes a lot of responses, but the intention is certainly honorable and positive. Not going into a thesis here, but in many ways this is brilliant work. Those who get it, get it. And those who don't can leave it alone.

We all don't like the same music. We all don't like the same food. We all don't like the same books. We all don't like the same cars. We all don't like the same houses. We all don't like the same humor. We all don't like the same recreation. We all don't like the same hairstyles. We all don't like the same...Etcetera into Infinity...

Art is no different.

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
83. My pleasure
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 08:59 AM
Apr 2014

however, to discover now that "We all don't like the same cars", is simply mind blowing! If only I had known!

You are exactly right, art is in the eyes of the artist and the beholder.

I found nothing offensive in what you posted.



 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
100. I've never seen nor heard of Trunick, but that photo and event you showed is actually quite lovely.
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 11:01 AM
Apr 2014

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
162. he's not as well known as he should be
Mon Apr 21, 2014, 09:47 AM
Apr 2014

--but his work is not universally appreciated. Here's another view of the Sydney Opera House "piece." Just google him for more of his work. He paints and constructs with humans in their most vulnerable, most generic state. And the effect on the volunteer participants is of course part of the story too.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
82. "I find the human form to be a thing of intrinsic beauty"
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 08:37 AM
Apr 2014

Intrinsic? Not a chance. As you yourself stipulated: "some more than others, but that is for me to decide"

Physical beauty is completely subjective.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
86. Humanity in its various forms
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 09:21 AM
Apr 2014

Many would say that the human form in general qualifies as "beautiful." That's a different concept than the judgement of the aesthetic appeal of certain individuals.

Maybe you are saying that beauty is not the same as "perfection." There are many classically beautiful, perfectly proportioned people who can appear to be ugly, just in the nuances of a facial expression. And there are many people who are not the "ideal" physique who radiate something positive that strikes us as beautiful.

Maybe that's what you mean by "physical beauty is completely subjective?"

Orrex

(67,080 posts)
99. Oh, sure. Now your story's changing.
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 10:58 AM
Apr 2014

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MattBaggins

(7,948 posts)
139. I bet dollars to donuts they ran out sometime in the early days of the roman empire
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 09:15 PM
Apr 2014

and this same boring shit has been rehashed over and over and over ever since.

pnwmom

(110,254 posts)
55. A couple days a month, most premenopausal women could do this without paintballs.
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 09:13 PM
Apr 2014

That's what I thought she was doing at first.

joshcryer

(62,536 posts)
67. Same here.
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 05:37 AM
Apr 2014

I honestly would've been impressed if she could make a painting with a rather heavy flow. Please don't be offended, I think this qualifies as art, barely, but it just lacks the personal quality that it's trying to inject.

So what, I could do that with my butt... erm... maybe. OK I could. No one would watch stretch marked formerly over weight guy with a weird face do that. No one would probably care.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
31. Who knew Kegel and Rorschach could be such an inspiration in art.
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 07:27 PM
Apr 2014

With regard to the issue of content, the iconicity of the spatial relationships brings within the realm of discourse the distinctive formal juxtapositions.

However, with regard to the issue of content, the optical suggestions of the spatial relationships endangers the devious simplicity of the remarkable handling of the medium.

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
33. I sure hope she sold well...
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 07:35 PM
Apr 2014

Weather for Cologne, Germany April 10-13:

10
Actual Temp
62° Lo 45°

11
Actual Temp
64° Lo 42°

12
Actual Temp
62° Lo 35°

13
Actual Temp
59° Lo 42°

Brrrrrr..... /shivers

Response to JI7 (Reply #35)

MattBaggins

(7,948 posts)
140. This is just like Jim Carey bending over and using his hands to move his butt cheeks
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 09:20 PM
Apr 2014

to pretend he was talking with his ass.

I guess this means every drunk moron who has ever gone streaking should be hailed as a great artist.

Let me stick/shoot/use my genitals for /art/talking/music... blah blah blah

Who hasn't done it? I and most of my friends stopped at least somewhere in our early twenties.

 

Vashta Nerada

(3,922 posts)
42. At least she didn't degrade herself by appearing on the cover of the swimsuit issue of SI.
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 08:00 PM
Apr 2014

Those of you screaming she needs therapy, it's just art.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
92. True. It is her idea and she's carrying it out
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 10:05 AM
Apr 2014

And doesn't have to be super-attractive or airbrushed to do it. She's not just sitting there being ogled, she's doing something. Now whether what she is doing is of much use is another question.

Violet_Crumble

(36,385 posts)
156. She's claiming she says that to any man who is a sex positive feminist...
Mon Apr 21, 2014, 08:32 AM
Apr 2014
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=42263

I dunno, I shudder to think what she says to women who are sex positive feminists. I always thought 'cool story, bro' was a response to someone telling an anecdote that's obviously tailor-made for what's being discussed, not to attack people who identify with any other form of feminism than what they identify with

LostOne4Ever

(9,749 posts)
66. I guess art is no longer in the eyes of the beholder
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 05:22 AM
Apr 2014

but between the legs of the painter?

When I think of art....I think of William-Adolphe Bouguereau

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William-Adolphe_Bouguereau





http://www.bouguereau.org/

WARNING: Links contain nudity.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
75. They are both art
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 07:53 AM
Apr 2014

--one from an earlier time. The direction of art changes over time but is inclusive. These days if you create something, you can call it art. It doesn't mean it's good art. Art is subjective. Different people will like different types of art. There's no one definition.

In your example I get a good picture of your taste in art. And that's fine. But it has no bearing on whether the performance in question deserves to be called art.

If you don't like some art, say why you don't like it --not just "it's not art." That's the tired old lament of the arrogant but uninformed.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
89. Maybe
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 09:49 AM
Apr 2014

but only if you can sell that act well and get good photos or videos. You could probably find an audience, if done well enough and documented.

Pissing has not been fully explored, I'm sure. It's a challenge, and will not be popular--but go for it.

Frank Cannon

(7,570 posts)
109. You mean there are bad, unskilled ways to squirt paint out of your cooch?
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 01:46 PM
Apr 2014

I wasn't aware that this was a technique that was taught in art schools today. Who says the humanities are dead?

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
124. Like I said
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 05:56 PM
Apr 2014

people have been pulling and squirting stuff out their VJ's for at least 50 years and documenting it. Where ya been? I'm sure there are better and worse techniques.

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
137. I'll tell you a story.
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 08:52 PM
Apr 2014

When I was in graduate school I knew a printmaker who was fooling around with various methods of printing. He wasn't satisfied with the standard printing "matrix" like litho or whatever. He wanted to print his body. He was a former army paratrooper so he had me use a paint roller to apply the printing medium to his body and he jumped off a table to make a print of a parachute landing fall. It was one of many of various types of body printing projects he did, and I was usually the one applying the print medium.

They said I'd be doing a lot of things in art school. They never said anything about painting naked paratroopers.

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
96. Yes.
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 10:50 AM
Apr 2014

If you were pissing with the intent to give a deeper insight into the human condition. And if you pissed on this, you could comment on the departure of art from the halcyon days of true formal rebellion. And if you collected the materials you used in a can you could dunk a photograph of this work in it you could use a French philosopher to comment on the lack of originality and banality of derivative post modern thinking, which of course depended on that same French philosopher.

 

Mosby

(19,491 posts)
123. You never know
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 05:52 PM
Apr 2014
A Taiwanese graduate art student won an art contest for creating the work of art seen above, a bloody, urine Iron Man. The name, unfortunately, is indicative of what the work represents, and what it was created with. One day when the student was taking care of business in the bathroom, he saw blood in his pee, the colors of which inspired him to created the bloody, urine for art purposes.

After spending around two months looking for a toilet bowl that was oblong in such a way that was similar to Iron Man’s face, the student then ate edible pigmentation in order to create black, green, and red urine, which he then turned into the toilet rendition of Iron Man seen above. He also used some of his saliva to make foam used in the piece. Reportedly, at the art competition, his work created a terrible odor.

http://www.geekosystem.com/iron-man-blood-urine-art/

Orrex

(67,080 posts)
90. If a bystander had kicked one of the scaffolds out from under her, would that be art?
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 09:56 AM
Apr 2014
If you don't like some art, say why you don't like it --not just "it's not art." That's the tired old lament of the arrogant but uninformed.
By that standard, everything is art, and I find "everything is art" to be the equally tired lament of the arrogant and smug.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
91. Wow --I am NOT saying that everything is art
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 10:04 AM
Apr 2014

complete misconception.

I am saying that if ENOUGH people agree that this performance should go on because they define it as art, then open your mind, viewer. Maybe you will still say it's bad art, or not your thing--but saying it's "not art" is pointless.

No, everything is not art. And a lot of things that ARE art are not recognized officially for one reason or another. But art these days is a larger sphere than it used to be.

--------
If a bystander kicked one of the scaffolds out from under her and was working with her--it would be part of the art. If a bystander was just being an arrogant angry jerk, then it would be assault. Duh?

Orrex

(67,080 posts)
95. Well, that's not really an answer
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 10:24 AM
Apr 2014

If a non-participating bystander kicked out the scaffolding, and 100 other non-participating bystanders called it art, does that make it art? Deferring to the fleeting will of some majority, by which standard everything can potentially be called art, is simply a way to declare that everything is art, without having to put oneself on the hook for making that statement.

I'm not saying that I can offer a solid way to define art, but I have never heard or read a definition that couldn't easily be interpreted to encompass the entirety of human endeavor.

If a bystander kicked one of the scaffolds out from under her and was working with her--it would be part of the art. If a bystander was just being an arrogant angry jerk, then it would be assault. Duh?
Why specifically can assault not be art? I'm not saying that it is; I'm asking why you are saying that it is not.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
104. Your assumption
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 11:59 AM
Apr 2014

that 100 bystanders would have any sort of consensus is false. So there is no point to be made about a random "majority" defining it as art. 100 people MIGHT theoretically speaking--get jollies on her being rudely knocked off--but that doesn't make it art.

The fact is --artists, curators, organizers, academics--these groups would call it art. (It's not my favorite thing--I'm kinda squeemish about body art-- but I don't deny that it's art). For ex, championship wrestling?--I don't like, but I can see it as an art form. Boxing is a form of body expression that ends up in injury often (football too for that matter) and I don't like it but it is an art. It is a ritualized form of assault kept within boundaries --that rises to an art form. Now if you think --for example that S&M rises to an art form, that's up to you. Many would not get that. I think we can all agree that non-consensual violence is NOT an art form. Which kicking out the scaffolding would be, if she did not give permission.

Unless the art performance is voted on by the bystanders to decide whether it is presented or not, art is presented without your or my prior approval sometimes. MANY things that disturb me hit my eyeballs everyday without my approval. But I ignore or move on. Or if it's important enough, I'll respond.

Art definitely does NOT encompass the entirety of human behavior. It has specific meanings in context, and definite boundaries.

Hope that helps. If not, say so. Discussion and interpretation is integral to art.

Orrex

(67,080 posts)
106. What are those boundaries? And who decides them?
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 12:29 PM
Apr 2014
The fact is --artists, curators, organizers, academics--these groups would call it art.
Okay, but how many have to give it a thumbs-up before it's art? What if there are 100 artists, curators, organizers & academics, of whom 50 say it's art and 50 say it ain't. Who's right? Is it art because somebody says so?

I think we can all agree that non-consensual violence is NOT an art form. Which kicking out the scaffolding would be, if she did not give permission.
So the majority does get to decide what art is? Since this is a sticking point, I'm afraid that I need to ask specifically why violence or non-consensual participation disqualifies a performance as art. You and I may object to non-consensual violence on aesthetic grounds, but what qualifies us to say that it's not art, rather than to say it's bad art?


And in case I appear to be moving the goalposts, let me disclaim plainly that I find performance art to be generally narcissistic, obvious and boring. It certainly is in this case.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
120. Yes--it is art because enough somebodies agree it is
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 05:25 PM
Apr 2014

--so in order to have it labelled as "not art" you would have to wrestle a lot of people.

How many decide?--of course there's a lot of debate within the field. Actually it's extremely competitive at the higher levels and difficult to get the attention of the right promoters and supporters. Your theoretical "50-50" artist has a tough time. It's a horse race. (We're not talking about Sunday painters here--talking about art at a higher level of achievement). So the majority of visual art professionals and art supporters get to decide what visual art is. They are not always in consensus whatsoever but they do try to remain respectful of serious work in genres they don't care for. Keeping an open mind is necessary.

It's just like music or writing or movies. What the critics and producers and academics like--may not be what the public likes best. But that doesn't mean it's not art. And consider that often art is created that isn't widely appreciated for years. Van Gogh never sold a painting in his lifetime. He was ridiculed. OTOH Thomas Kinkade's factory-made paintings made him a young zillionaire, only because he was able to convince unsuspecting people that it was good art...when it was primarily a feat of marketing prowess. Most authorities in art would call it mediocre to bad, and his marketing predatory.

On the plus side these days, there's really something for everybody under the huge label of art. So there's no need to fight against what you don't like. If you aren't interested enough to find out anything about whatever the genre is, OK. No harm done. Move on to what you do like. Maybe you like none of it. I'm not here to cajole anybody.

So IMO the general public DOES decide what is popular art, but the public does NOT decide what IS Art. I don't like to see otherwise intelligent (liberal) people arguing the lame old, "it's not Art" merely because they don't like it. Just say you don't like it. Or that you find it "narcissistic, obvious and boring." That's more specific.
-----------

As for violence, expressed in art. That's another topic. But you imagined it--so OK, I'll just say that as long as the violence is NOT REAL--(ie. movies, books, pictures) then it can be art. Because violence is part of our experience in this life. But if it is real, actual extreme violence (let's say--beyond boxing, which some consider to have crossed the line) --if the act of extreme non-consensual violence is labelled as art, that is where sane people draw the line. Because nobody but the sickest minds could defend that in a civilized society. I don't call that good or bad art--I call it psychotic behavior, found in fiction but not condoned in reality.

So I suppose this woman does take a risk that some psychotic might kick the scaffolding out, but she is in a relatively safe environment, and the act is temporary. Remember, it's temporary and you have to be going to this art expo to see it. She is brave to do it, I'll give you that. It might provoke anger from someone who objects to what they happen to see. But if I did that, I'd be waging war daily against the ugliness of things I see in this country and society. Most of us have better self-control. This artist is banking on people being at least accepting, or even bored, like you.

I hope this helps you and anyone else asking the same totally relevant questions.

LostOne4Ever

(9,749 posts)
118. Your putting words into my mouth
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 04:20 PM
Apr 2014

I never said it's not art. I made a joke about art in the eye of the beholder and between the painters legs.

Then I precede to give an example of what I think of when I think art and proceeded to share the work and name of my favorite fine artist.

I absolutely love his style. Its so realistic, and it blows me away to think that had I not seen a picture describing an alternative version of the birth of venus I would never have heard of him. I would love to be able to draw and paint like that.

I'm very well aware that art is subjective. Some I like and some I don't. I fully admit to preferring concrete art over the abstract, but I do have an appreciation of both. I love the art found cartoons and animation for example, which, technically, is a bit of an abstraction.

I don't care much for the likes of Pollock. It seems like he is just throwing paint on a canvas (though I know he put way more effort into his works than that). That is my taste.

Sorry if I offended you. Again, I was just making a joke (which I thought was obvious) and then stated my own preference.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
121. OK I took you seriously
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 05:40 PM
Apr 2014

so often when people want to diss any modern art, they say categorical things like "no longer in the eyes of the beholder..." (I needed a smilie to get your joke, I guess).

Posting about Bouguereau, no prob -- I said they're both "art." In the general sense.

Nobody has to like Pollock. But he is important because of his influence at the time. Many artists did things differently because of Pollock. But that does not mean you need to like looking at his work.

No offense at all. Just art chat.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
85. Nihilists! Fuck me...
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 09:03 AM
Apr 2014

I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos!



We cut off your johnson!

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
112. anatomy. you might want to study it. -
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 01:51 PM
Apr 2014

the vagina and the anus. although, they are both orifices ... there is a difference in function and location.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
130. Pushing stuff out of the body ...you might want to study it.
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 06:27 PM
Apr 2014

So it's legit art if it is pushed out of a vagina but it's not if it gets pushed out of your ass. pffft whatever

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
146. That is not what you said. As for Art/Performance Art, I could give/take a shit.
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 11:03 PM
Apr 2014

The finished product produced by this woman artist holds no interest for me. Her concept and execution is not necessarily to my taste either. But, really, I could not care less one way or another about it.

As pointed out up thread only a certain element of DU seem to be enthralled by this.

btw: this is what you said

A dozen chili burgers and some Ex-lax would have eliminated the need for eggs.


with a picture about taking a shit.

The woman above is not shitting. Just wanted to clarify as you seemed confused with your post as to exactly what was taking place and how and with what part of the female body she was using.

A man would have to use his anus or ureter. A woman could use her ureter, vagina or, anus. This woman chose to use her vaginal opening.
 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
157. The confusion and lack of of sense of humor is all yours.
Mon Apr 21, 2014, 08:42 AM
Apr 2014

You may need to smoke up some good weed to get it.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
122. Creative interpretation
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 05:45 PM
Apr 2014

the artist would probably say it's as good as any.

Unless you're just saying all art like this is the domain of elitists. In which case off with your head.

Response to LittleBlue (Original post)

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
134. I agree
Sun Apr 20, 2014, 08:38 PM
Apr 2014

but a lot of body stuff is nasty. This kind of art has a gross-out factor for sure. This is not the worst out there.

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