General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPlease take this advice: always be ready to jump ship
Last edited Tue Apr 22, 2014, 06:52 AM - Edit history (2)
if you work for a large corporation.
Always be ready no matter where you work, but especially with a large corporation where you don’t personally know the people in charge.
If lay-offs or transfers have been announced in your division, or even if you’ve just been seeing suspicious signs of lay-offs, DON’T TRUST MANAGEMENT if they tell you you’re on a “protected” list, or a "priority" list, or a “critical list,” or a “safe” list. Don’t trust that your employee evaluation or rating means your job is safe. Don’t trust them no matter how much you like your direct manager. He might lose his own job if he tells you the truth.
You need to take appropriate steps instead so that you can land in a new job if you need to. If you wait till you know for sure, then other openings in your company (if that’s where you want to go) may be filled by the time you officially lose your job.
Five years ago, my sister saw the writing on the wall at her bank – and so did everyone else in the division. But for a year, the bank insisted that all the division’s jobs were safe – that only other people would lose their jobs. And then, suddenly, the whole division was given two weeks notice – and the chance to reapply for jobs a thousand miles away.
A nephew with a freshly minted engineering degree chose from three job offers for his first position out of college. Within three months, his entire 200-person division was laid off, and it took him almost a year to find another job. As a potential new hire, he wasn’t aware of the rumors that had been going through the company, but others were. And yet most were still blindsided by the cuts.
And now, another relative is a middle level manager at a large corporation that has announced layoffs and transfers in one of the divisions. The corporation is lying to individual employees about their status – telling them that their jobs are protected – but, at the same time and behind their backs, scheduling them for layoffs within the year. The only reason the manager doesn’t quit is because he’s trying to find landing spots elsewhere in the corporation for as many of his employees as he can. In the decades he’s worked there, he’s never seen anything like this and it’s making him sick.
But it’s the new reality.
So if you work at a large corporation and there’s even a hint of layoffs in the air, get your resume ready, put yourself in Linked In, and get ready to jump ship if you need to. Or maybe even if you don’t. If your company has already announced layoffs or transfers of jobs, start looking for options both inside and outside the corporation. Don’t for any reason let them lull you into thinking your particular job is safe. IT IS NOT.
Please figure out your options now, while you still have a job, because it will be much harder later. Don’t trust your corporation to play fair, no matter how long you’ve been with it, and no matter how important you think you are to them. And if you sense trouble, don’t ignore your instincts – trust them. You’re the only one you can trust. Don’t be in denial.
And if you think I’m writing about YOUR corporation – I AM.
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The Velveteen Ocelot
(130,533 posts)I worked for a large corporation that was acquired by an even larger one. Right then and there we knew we'd better be prepared for anything. The HR people gathered us all and told us we needed to fill out a "survey" to determine what the "best fit" for everyone would be in the new company. It soon became obvious that we were being required to re-apply for our existing jobs because some people were going to be let go (a fact they refused to admit for a very long time). Curiously, none of the equivalent employees of the acquiring company had to do this. Eventually it was announced that a significant number of our employee group were "excess," and each sub-department had to decide who would get the axe. Even for those who survived, morale sucked worse every day.
Our new bosses told us that our (significantly reduced) department would stay as it was and there were no plans to move it to the company's headquarters (800 miles away). Except that less than a year later we learned that they would be moving our department to the headquarters city. And we found this out on the news - they hadn't bothered to tell us directly. They offered anyone who might be eligible for early retirement a severance package. I was one of those fortunate folks, so I took the money and ran. Almost everybody else finally quit rather than transfer. I suspect that was the plan all along.
Don't ever believe what the corporate bosses tell you.
calimary
(90,021 posts)were realistic knew that, or sensed it from time to time. NOBODY was safe. I watched one general manager's head roll down the hall, along with his executive assistant (who was thought to be bullet-proof especially since, in a position like hers, she knew where all the bodies were buried!). Figuratively-speaking of course. But heads rolled. I think I shared the story here about how one mention in the ARB Talkback (a service from ARB at the time, in which they provided stations with not just numbers and rankings, but in the Talkback, a listener review adjunct with verbatim comments, one of which was especially complimentary toward me personally) saved my job for about a year. EVEN THAT wasn't enough. Even knowing the PD personally at another station, from having worked with him VERY successfully at an earlier station, wasn't enough. Even having a hand in the increase in ratings in MY timeslot, that didn't help. Radio was a notoriously insecure business as far as job "security". And the more sensible and realistic (or seasoned and many-times-fired or screwed-over) of us in it recognized it. But now EVERY business, every industry, everywhere, is like that.
I found it a good habit to update the resume IMMEDIATELY, AS SOON AS I LANDED A NEW JOB. Update it IMMEDIATELY. ALWAYS make sure it's as excruciatingly current as possible! In whatever form, whether it's on LinkedIn, or Facebook, or printed out on paper. You never know how long it's going to last. I've known people who got fired within weeks, or yes indeed even days, after being hired. I've known people who got fired even after they moved halfway across country for the new job. Even after they moved halfway across country and the new job's management paid for their move!
Always gird your loins. Be ready to sell yourself to somebody across town - ALWAYS be looking. Even if you think things are good at the moment (a rare state of affairs, all told). ALWAYS have your antennae up, ALWAYS be on the lookout. ALWAYS be networking. It's just a good self-defense habit to do. It's easier to be a survivor that way.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)There is no point at which people can relax in the knowledge that they're doing a great job.
Jim__
(15,222 posts)I just saw this and thought it sort of went with the OP:
On Friday (April 18), it was claimed that the sports apparel company would lay off the majority of staff behind its Nike+ FuelBand SE wrist device.
...
However, sources close to the publication claim that a decision over the FuelBand's future has been the subject of debate at Nike for several months due to high expenses, manufacturing challenges and a struggle to reach adequate business margins.
...
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)out of their employees till they get laid off.
Triana
(22,666 posts)...their job was "safe" - they got laid off.
EVERY.
TIME.
It's a hucksterish way to keep employees "happy" and busy until they're cut loose. It's a LIE. And it's INTENTIONAL.
They mindlessly fuck with people's lives.
NO. JOB. IS. SAFE. Especially if the muckety-mucks are telling you yours is. The MINUTE you hear that, get the resume updated and don't waste a minute doing it. Seriously.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)The first out the door will have a better opportunity to land the available openings at other companies. Some will be viewed negatively because the firing corporation will have loaded up the first batch with poor performers.
Being in the middle batch is still pretty good.
Being in the last batch means that the openings are gone and that hiring companies will think you lacked the skills and initiative to take action before you were terminated.
That said, I'm not sure why you target the advice to employees of large corporations. Small corporations act much the same way. Any manager thinking about chatting with employees about whether their job is "safe" or "not safe" should see his HR lawyer first.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)I could imagine that a mom and pop company would treat its employees more fairly. But people other than I can speak to that.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)For example, the founder dies and control passes to a generation with differing views on how to run the place. Incompetent spendthrift wins the battle for control and drives the business into bankruptcy.
Lots of businesses have a shorter existence than 40 years.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)are both more tuned in behind-the-scenes and less likely to be working at places with formal "critical" lists that could give them a false sense of security.
But you're absolutely right that anyone, no matter where he or she works, should always have at least one eye on the door.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)One day, came into work. All-hands meeting. "The CEO has fled the country. Take your stuff and go. Btw, you are not going to be paid for the past 3 weeks."
Sometimes it means you'll be treated fairly. Sometimes it means they don't know what the employment laws actually are.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)If you only knew. But for reasons entirely unrelated to layoffs.
Anyone hiring electronics techs in states unpopulated by crazed RW ideologues?
Major Nikon
(36,925 posts)One of my flying buddies got to talking about this yesterday when I mentioned some of our avionics folks at work may be laid off in the next few months. He just sent me this link. I don't know a whole lot about it other than he said the FAA will be hiring about 400 techs this summer nationwide. He said they set your starting pay based on your qualifications and you'll get paid more once you reach the journeyman level, but I have no idea what that will be. He said to get your app in as soon as you can as they will start reviewing them soon.
https://faa.usajobs.gov/Search?keyword=airway+transportation+systems+specialist
IDemo
(16,926 posts)"for appointment under the Veteran's Recruitment Appointment (VRA) authority."
Non-vet here. I have been looking quite a bit at openings in Oregon and Washington, and many require experience in avionics, military hardware or a Secret (or higher) clearance. This is not going to be easy.
Major Nikon
(36,925 posts)IDemo
(16,926 posts)It would be nice to be able to get a foothold in avionics or related areas; it sounds like a fascinating sector.
haele
(15,400 posts)They all call it "right-sizing" or getting rid of "redundancies" as if having a balanced work/life schedule, training, personnel support, back-up systems and QA/QC is an un-necessary expense in business. Because the most efficiently profitable business model is a plantation economy model, dontchaknow?
Fungible, disposable, just-in-time "resourcing" is the death of sustainability. And it seems that with very few exceptions, no one in a position of power or responsibility is willing to think on how to re-engineer society and business to handle the reality that technology means there are not going to be enough jobs to sustain employment levels of livable wages, no matter how social or liberal the economy a country has.
We are a race of tween-agers. And the bullies amongst us are perfectly happy to ensure that "civilization" is destroyed just so they can continue to be bullies.
Haele
CFLDem
(2,083 posts)
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)Be prepared to leave everything behind at a moment's notice. If bad stuff happens as a result (loss of house or valuables) roll with it and dust / dry yourself off and move forward. That's the zen of it.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)
Nobel_Twaddle_III
(345 posts)
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)n/t
pragmatic_dem
(410 posts)out of the US.
Major Nikon
(36,925 posts)I still keep a folder that I constantly update full of my accomplishments ready to build a resume at the drop of a hat. If at any time anyone threatens me with my job, my standard answer is I was looking for a job when I found this one. Nobody owns me, and the peace of mind this gives me is incalculable. It allows me to metaphorically tell people above me to go fuck themselves as the need arises because I don't live in fear of them. Regardless of how secure your job is, so long as there are people above you at some point they will try to intimidate you by holding your job security over your head. Many people experience this on a daily basis. I don't allow people to do this to me. Living in constant fear of losing your job is no way to live. The way I look at it is the company should fear me because I can leave at any time taking my knowledge and skills with me which will create a loss to them if I do.
Another thing I've always tried to do is live well beneath my means. I realize not everyone will have that ability at all times, but when you find yourself leveraged up to your eyeballs, you are then owned by your creditors. Keeping your debt as low as possible can keep you from losing everything you have if you experience a period of extended unemployment. Telling yourself you don't need something when you have money in the bank is hard to do and takes discipline. I just keep telling myself there are no shortage of people who are happy with less shit.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)for the people who earn anything beyond their minimal living costs. When we first bought a house, we bought a little one we could afford on a single income, even though our bank would have been happy to lend us more money based on two incomes, and we then made sure we put the savings away. I know not everyone has that option, but those who do should think about it.
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)the oligarchy has imposed. They have figured out how to divide nearly Everyone and let them feed off the scraps that they throw out, pitting coworkers against each other in ways unimaginable in a democratic society. I've seen it in State, Federal, and private entities. It's not based on worker production, knowledge, or any other trait they would leave you to believe is part of their "work ethic", but rather who you know and how well you are connected to the ties that bind. It's a rather creepy system when you give it some hard thought, and, of course, the poorest are the most disposable. Very Libertarian if you ask me, and it seems like our politicians are content letting this system play out.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)Have you read about Lambert, the Libertarian who's driven Sears into the ground by cutting it up into pieces and making the pieces fight each other?
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)isn't looking too bright for the future either...
Thomas Piketty Undermines the Hallowed Tenets of the Capitalist Catechism
Not only does capitalist growth not reduce inequality; it increases it.
by Jeff Faux
"Underneath the rhetoric, the actual message from our governing class is: have patience. The economic tide—bringing with it good jobs at good wages—will soon rise again. It always has.
But as the US economy crawls into the sixth year of recession and the fourth decade of stagnant real wages, the signals ahead tell us that this time it probably won’t.
The Obama administration’s “optimistic” ten-year forecast (for obvious reasons, administration forecasts always lean toward optimism) is for enough growth to drop the unemployment rate to 5.4 percent by 2018 and have it remain there until 2024. Given that joblessness averaged 4.6 percent in the three years before the 2008 crash while wages stagnated, the president’s own economists are implicitly predicting that the gap between workers’ production and workers paychecks will widen further.
Others are even less sanguine. Progressive economists like Paul Krugman and Joe Stiglitz—and now even the less-than-progressive Larry Summers—think that the US and European economies are trapped by chronic weak consumer demand. Their remedy is more government spending on education and infrastructure to put more money in customers’ pockets. But the reactionary fiscal austerity that dominates Washington and Brussels—even among the left-center parties—makes such aggressive Keynesianism a political non-starter for the foreseeable future."
<snip>
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Play them off a little against each other and always have a backup plan.
I will likely be dumping one of the part time jobs within a couple weeks, but that's because I'm about to get picked up by a 2nd hospital, so I'll still have 2 part time jobs, just doing the same thing in 2 different locations.
Same lab chain, but because I stay per diem I'm extra cheap for them and will be extra useful when I'm trained in 2 of their hospitals.
I also may get trained in a 3rd, urgent care center, giving me 3 per diem jobs with 2 different supervisors. If not, I'll start looking for a 3rd per diem, but this time outside of the lab chain. That is tougher...they own most of the area labs, but there is still a little competition...
Logical
(22,457 posts)me a job forever. I am fine with that relationship.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)When they tell highly trained employees with very specific skills that their jobs will be retained, and discourage them from seeking positions elsewhere in the corporation, even though they know that the plan is to let them go.
Logical
(22,457 posts)pnwmom
(110,261 posts)They are two very different things.
How would you feel if you were a manager who was being forced to meet with your employees to tell them their jobs were safe when you knew they were not? And if you told them the truth, you would lose your job and your ability to help any of your employees find another position?
The employer is in the position of power in the relationship, not the employee.
Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)Many small business owners are the same. Go with your gut instinct. Trust no one...
undergroundpanther
(11,925 posts)they are psychopathic in structure,just like thier executives and owners. We can survive without toleratingt wealthy pigs and thier resource abusing exploitative pyramid scams called "corporations".
Gman
(24,780 posts)pragmatic_dem
(410 posts)for sending millions of jobs to Asia.
freebrew
(1,917 posts)"Everything management says is a lie!"
Words to live by.
And a resume won't help you much if you're over 55. Get ready for some minimum wage job and lots of excuses.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)At the third company I wrote about, there were appropriate openings in other parts of the company, but the employees at risk weren't applying because they thought they were safe in their jobs.
ColesCountyDem
(6,944 posts)Good advice in the OP, because I was 'blind sided'.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)I'm hoping maybe this can help someone not be lulled into missing other opportunities because they trusted the wrong people.
ColesCountyDem
(6,944 posts)I'm 56. Like most in our generation, I did all of 'the right things', the things that our parents taught us we should do: I studied hard and did well in K-12, and was awarded a 'full ride' academic scholarship to a small, liberal-arts college. I continued to study hard and did well, graduating magna cum laude and receiving yet another full ride scholarship to a good law school. I worked for a few years in law-enforcement, then worked for a few years in the Public Defender's Office before going to work for one of the world's largest telecommunications companies. I carefully planned and funded a 401(k), was 'pension tracked' with the company, etc. . My personal plan envisioned me retiring in early 2015, when my pension 'vested'. 'The American Dream', right? *sigh*...
My life was going exactly as I envisioned it would go until the fall of 2008, when a series of events occurred. My 401(k) was one that you could not 're-arrange/thinker with' more than once every 6 months, and I had just done so before Wall Street began its free-fall swan dive. I stood by, powerless, while I watched 94% of the value of my 401(k) disappeared into thin air. On Halloween Day 2008, I suffered a health crisis requiring an emergency resection of almost half of my large bowel; post-operatively, I developed MRSA in my incision, and the infection rapidly progressed into septicemia. Although I had 'good' health insurance through my employer, three-and-a-half months in the hospital, three months in a wound-care facility, three additional 'wound revision' surgeries left me with enormous un-reimbursed medical and 'ordinary living expenses'. I had no choice but to cash in the remainder of my 401(k) to pay the medical bills and 'ordinary' living expenses. While recuperating, I watched with growing fury while both the 'too big to fail' banks and the Detroit automakers received bailouts, but people like me were left to 'sink or swim'. Still, I consoled myself with he thought that I still (almost) had my pension, although retirement in 2015 was no longer an option ...
When I returned to work in October 2009, I would see the occasional memo about parts of the company being 'moved offshore' (outsourced), but was always re-assured that my division would not be affected. After a couple of years, I ceased to worry about my own job security and again began a 401(k). With absolutely no warning, everyone but the 'big bosses' in my division was laid off on August 6th, 2012-- no notice, no 'severance package', nada-- just a notice to clean out our offices by the end of the work day. To add insult to injury, my employer contested my initial unemployment application, saying that I was an 'at will, contract employee'. I won on appeal, but my unemployment benefits were 29% of my average total, bi-weekly income (my base salary, plus 'performance-based' bonuses). I also said goodbye to my pension, not having put in the required 20 years for it to become 'vested'. Rather than face foreclosure in a weak real-estate market, I allowed the bank to take possession of my home without an additional 'deficiency judgment' being lodged against me. There being no substantive difference in the job market between where I lived and where I had planned to eventually retire, I moved, rented a modest, affordable home and began looking for work, certain that I would be able to secure employment in fairly short order, given my education and work experience. How wrong I was ...
Despite a massive, all-out job search, I remain unemployed. I am in that 'niche' of 'over-50 and over-qualified'. My long-term unemployment benefits were terminated on December 28th, 2013, forcing me to once again cash out my 401(k). Having rapidly exhausted that, I now rely on SNAP (Link, in Illinois) benefits and a $125/mo. 'general relief' grant from my township government. Through the generosity of my church, the local ministerial alliance, a couple of local NGO's and LIHEAP, I am not (yet) homeless, although I am behind in my rent and COULD BE evicted at any time. That I have not yet been evicted is due solely to the forbearance of my landlord, a situation I cannot see lasting much longer. What public housing there is here is full, with a 17 month-long waiting list, and Sec. 8 housing is also full. I no longer have the resources to relocate-- moving expenses, rent and utility deposits, etc.-- and daily live with the looming prospect of homelessness.
My story, sadly, is not that unusual. While Wall Street, the Detroit automakers, et al, have not only 'recovered', but prospered, millions of people, people just like me, are 'swirling the drain'. My former employer is HUGELY profitable, banking un-taxed profits 'offshore', and receiving a tax refund on their U.S. profits.
My story is but one example of how the middle class is being systematically destroyed in this country.
P.S.-- Thank God and President Obama for the 'Affordable Care Act'. My state accepted 'expanded Medicaid', and I at least have health insurance, with no exclusion for my 'pre-existing condition' (diverticulitis).
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)I'm wishing you the very best. I know hard it must be to keep going in the face of so much loss. My thoughts and prayers that you'll soon find the help you need.
ColesCountyDem
(6,944 posts)I felt ashamed, at first, then gradually told bits and pieces of it. This is the first time I've shared the entire story, and it felt good to do so, in an odd way.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)As I'm sure you know, you're an excellent writer and your story is very moving. And many people here are going through similar things.
Let me know if you decide to do this so I can recommend it.
ColesCountyDem
(6,944 posts)Now that my story is 'out', so to speak, I've been feeding my critters and considering doing that very thing.
dotymed
(5,610 posts)are following the corporate trend...
The chances are that these friends and relatives can get their old jobs back as long as they don't mind being
"temps."
Of course they will have to be willing to take drastic pay-cuts and forget benefits. The C.E.O.'s, shareholders (not so much, we used to blame them, it has become obvious where the extra profits go),when upper management, etc., want more money.Capitalism
w/out strict regulations (which it used to have and enough Unionized employees to enforce them) requires that the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many (workers) so more profits are made.
Most Americans have stood by while Unions have been decimated post-reagan. Glass-Steagall was repealed and what few employee
safeguards were left were not enforceable because government was drowned in the tub, not lobbyists or contractors though.
Sadly, America has reaped what its "leaders" have sown, yet average people always had excuses not to stand up and loudly protest,
in Unison.
Only we can break the chains that we have allowed to slowly bind us. Unless we Unite and loudly take action to stop the economic repression that now defines us, things will get worse.
C.E.O.'s now pay themselves at least 400 times, compared to 4 times, the amount of their average worker. While they pay a fraction
of the taxes, as a percentage of income, that regular employees do. WE have allowed this to happen, THEY have every reason to
prevent us to remedy this situation. So far, THEY have won all of the major battles of this class war (believe it) and unless we UNITE
immediately and fight more ruthlessly, they will win the war very soon.
Mbrow
(1,090 posts)this is not new. My wife and I ran into it 20 years ago when we were working at Litton Software, (industrial automation) I had found out they were laying off programmers the next monday on friday so we were able to clear out my wife's desk that weekend. What was really amazing about the whole thing was how they did it, the people who were laid off were called into a conference room, not allowed to go back to their desks because they might "do something", made them sit all day for "training", then escorted back to their desk to allow them to clear it out after the other people had left for the day. As I pointed out to the controller of the division (I was a little pissed at the time on how they tried to treat my wife) that this was BS to treat these people this way, they were professionals, they were not going to screw things up because they were laid off, but they might if you continued to fuck with them. My wife basically got up and left for home when they told her she was laid off, this is what started the talk between the controller and I, he said my wife was not playing by the "rules". I pointed out to the Idiot that they had laid my wife off but not me, not that I would do anything but I was in a position to do a hell of a lot more damage then any of the programmers at the time. Also the programmers all had home access to clients software data bases and could totally fuck any of them, did they bother to inform the clients so they could change the access passwords? Of course not and several client were really pissed off when they found out, one company hire two of the programmers to work for them. I left several month later. Now I work through my Union ( AMO) so all my Medical and pension are thru them and not tied to any one Company.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)What "rules?" What were they going to do -- fire your wife? 
I'm sorry -- I guess maybe it's just early -- I'm sorry about what happened to your wife, but reading about that idiot controller pontificating about "the rules," whatever that's supposed to mean, just floors me. 
Mbrow
(1,090 posts)There was a kind of culture among the programmers of "you don't ask what other programmers make" and other nonsense that is fostered by management. Like I said i'm glad to be working union for the last 20 years.
TBF
(36,669 posts)I worked in a small telecom company 15 years ago that was doing a plant closing while they told everyone outside of the executive suite that it was business as usual (I was in legal). Meanwhile I was busy outsourcing the work, selling the property and meeting with bankruptcy counsel just in case they couldn't pull off their plan to keep one strong subsidiary (in the end that is what they did - they actually owned the plant/property so when they sold it was enough to keep a strong subsidiary located in another state).
Most were outsized end of the day on Friday (the board meetings were Thursday nights via phone) - by managers who would be given a few hours to cut a certain amount from their department. It was brutal. Through the rumor mill and after watching this routine for a few weeks many actually had some inkling of what was going on but stayed because their pay was so much higher than local new jobs they could find (not a large city). But they didn't know the plant was actually being closed and that ALL were being let go - and in the end only a handful were offered jobs at the subsidiary. Usually even if they make those offers they know it is likely that most won't take them - which is the only reason they do it at all.
Liberal In Texas
(16,270 posts)My wife just got fired after 16 years...completely blindsided. She was loved and needed by the other staff members. And now she's scrambling to find another job. She didn't even have a resume to update.
Take this advice.
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Also true at this small nonprofit. My boss was rated Satisfactory. That and two bucks will get him carfare to his next interview. 
Flatpicker
(894 posts)Never trust your employers.
aikoaiko
(34,214 posts)I agree
Phentex
(16,709 posts)Many people feel safe at their jobs and become complacent. It really doesn't matter if you feel you and the boss are close. When the chips are down, the company always wins.