Marijuana as a treatment/replacement for alcohol abuse?

[hedgehog]

I heard it suggested that heavy alcohol users might switch to legalized marijuana. What do you think? Do heavy alcohol users use marijuana with alcohol or instead of alcohol? If they use marijuana, how does their behavior change? Do they become more functional and able to work? (That's not a silly question; morphine addiction was used in the 19th century as a treatment for alcoholism. Alcohol users drank up what wages they earned, morphine addicts went to work and brought their wages home!)

[leftyladyfrommo]

1. I don't think that would work very well.

I've always found that pot lowers resistance to other stuff. Get high and then having a little wine sounds like a good idea.

[TheSarcastinator]

7. Riiiiiight. You sure know "pot" users!

In the meantime, both myself and Willie Nelson (perhaps you have heard of him?) would like to disagree with you, strongly.

There are tens of thousands of people across this nation who use cannabis successfully to mitigate problems with alcohol. Perhaps you should attempt to move beyond your own limited perspective on this issue. Your rather weak retelling of the gateway theory is already well debunked. Cannabis does not make people want other drugs.

[leftyladyfrommo]

8. Well, I'm just speaking from my own 40 year experience.

I can't speak for other people.

I do have a good friend who has had a terrible fight with alcohol and he can't use anything. He just has to fight all day long, every day to stay straight and sober.

I don't have really strong feelings about legalizing MJ but I kind of wish they would. It's just so sad that people actually still get arrested for using it.

[TreasonousBastard]

2. There's an interesting discussion about just that...

on the Diane Riehm show right now. Well, it's ending, right now.

The upshot seems to be that we just don't know. A whole bunch of people seem to be sure of the outcome, but history shows a lot of broken crystal balls.

We shall see.

[hedgehog]

4. That's the show that inspired the question!

I only heard part of it, but what I didn't hear discussed is this: supposing for the moment that legalized marijuana use does have societal costs; how do those costs compare with the currant societal costs of illegal marijuana use? We're spending money to send people to jail, overwhelmingly minority people. We're also encouraging an underground drug trade. I don't know if marijuana is gateway drug to other drugs, but I think selling marijuana may be a gateawy to selling other drugs!

[TreasonousBastard]

6. I didn't hear the whole thing either...

but I might catch it later on the NPR website.

Anyway, they didn't seem to come to any conclusion, but generally agreed that weed is far less harmful than tobacco or alcohol. Admittedly, that's a pretty easy thing to agree on.

They mentioned Uruguay (I think it was Uruguay) that legalized pot basically to put the illegal drug cartels out of business. Legal pot dealers can be regulated just like pharmacies are regulated and more easily caught if they start dealing crack.

[leftyladyfrommo]

11. Didn't someone here say that there is still a very active black market

in Colorado?

[TreasonousBastard]

12. Could be. Old dealers aren't likely to just...

lay down and let the pot shops steal their business. And they likely have stuff not available legally.

(I remember opium laced hash.)

[leftyladyfrommo]

13. Can you buy it cheaper on the black market?

How much does MJ cost in Colorado? I have no idea. I heard it is expensive.

[TreasonousBastard]

15. I have no idea, but wouldn't be surprised if it was cheaper on the street.

[Le Taz Hot]

3. I've no science to back this up but

I had a good friend of 30 years who drank HEAVILY (one 1.75 liter bottle of brandy every other day and not counting all the mixed drinks she would consume before she got to the brandy) and smoked pot. She was on a limited income and she often wasn't able to buy pot and alcohol so she often had to make a choice. She chose alcohol over pot every time. Otoh, alcoholism is a disease and cannabis is an effective treatment for so many other ailments, it would be interesting to see if it was effective treatment.

[hedgehog]

5. My mother worked on a ward dedicated to the treatment of alcoholics and drug users -

she said the worst de-tox was from alcohol, not heroin.

I don't think I ever worried about my kids using marijuana. Given my family history, I did worry about alcohol, and still do even though my kids are all adults now. So far, they seem to be handling it well, drinking in moderation.

[Warren DeMontague]

10. Yeah, the DTs from alcohol can be fatal.

Ugly stuff.

[pipi_k]

9. I don't know about that, but...

I do know that if recreational MJ were legal in my state, my brother would probably still be alive.

He smoked it, but when he went to work for a certain company, they tested for it. So he quit and started drinking instead.

Ironic, isn't it. People can kill themselves with booze, but pot is BAD!!!!




Anyway, my brother died a slow and painful death over the course of a few years.


I get so angry sometimes, especially at people who think MJ is somehow worse than alcohol. Honestly, I just want to slap them upside the head.

[Warren DeMontague]

14. My own personal opinion is that long-term sobriety tends to work better for an alcoholic if they

at least get used to the idea of spending most if not all of their time without falling back on a chemical 'crutch' of any sort.

That said the physical consequences of regular pot smoking don't hold a candle to what active alcoholism does to the body IMHO, and the former is undeniably easier to kick from a physical withdrawl perspective. I certainly think if people are talking trading one substance for the other, pot is a generally more benign entity all around.

[leftyladyfrommo]

16. Oh, for sure.

My friend now eats a whole lot of sugar food. I guess it helps with the cravings but his diet is just awful.

Alcohol is awful stuff. I don't think I know a single family that has not been affected in a really horrible way by alcohol. So many of my friends had awful, mean drunk dads. Not mothers so much, I don't think.

One friend came from a family of 6 kids. Her father was just an awful brutal mean drunk. None of the kids drink but all of their children have had terrible problems with addictions of all sorts. Strangely, the daughters managed to get off the alcohol but all of the sons have just had a terrible time.

[hedgehog]

17. Your post brings up the question of alcoholism as a modelled behavior

When I was little, at a family funeral, my father pointed out my 90 some year old great -great uncle who had served in the Spanish American war. Then he listed all the other uncles - "he had a brother XX, he drank and he died young, uncle YY drank, and he died young"... I made sure my own children were well familiar with that story.

My father is the only survivor of six children, four others of whom died bt 45 and 60, largely or directly due to their heavy drinking. My aunt was the only woman in the extended family who I recall as a heavy drinker, and she was in a peer group that drank heavily. It may be that in my father's family, it was accepted that most of the men drank excessively. There may have been some self-medication involved as well. Neither my grandfather nor father ever drank heavily. My Dad is a very healthy 84.

I recall my Dad's brothers as being old men, and am shocked to realize that they died at the same age as I am today.

Please note - alcoholism may be a modeled behavior, but if so, that doesn't mean there isn't an underlying medical problem.

[Warren DeMontague]

18. To me, I think it's incredibly clear with alcoholism in particular that there is something or things

genetic going on. Physiological.

[dilby]

19. Not really sure my only experience is with alcohol, don't care for pot.

But I used to have a buddy who smoked a lot of weed and drank a lot but never at the same time it was always one or the other.