FDA to begin regulating e-cigarettes

[nadinbrzezinski]

WASHINGTON — The Food and Drug Administration plans to begin regulating electronic cigarettes for the first time, banning sales to minors and requiring manufacturers to put health warnings on the nicotine-delivering devices that have become a multibillion-dollar industry, according to officials who described the agency's proposal.

But the agency will stop short of steps that many public health advocates and some members of Congress have called for, including restrictions on television advertisements and flavorings, such as pumpkin spice or chocolate, that may target younger consumers, officials said. The agency plans to announce the new rule Thursday.

Regulators do not yet have scientific evidence for a rule on flavorings, but the subject is still being researched, Mitchell Zeller, director of the FDA's Center for Tobacco Products, told reporters.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ecigs-fda-20140424,0,2421084.story#ixzz2zp2FNW5a

Well, let the battle begin...And yes, the companies wanted to be treated as tobacco, well then, they will howl as they start to be treated exactly like tobacco.

[tridim]

1. I can't wait to see what they come up with for the "Health warnings"

Here is an interesting article about the FDA ~REMOVING~ warnings from Nicorette (aka Corporate NRT) type products. The same nicotine used in e-Juice.

http://www.fda.gov/forconsumers/consumerupdates/ucm345087.htm

[B2G]

2. Link to where the companies 'wanted to be treated as tabacco'?

TIA.

Oops, I forgot. I'm on your iggy list. Maybe someone else can ask her.

[Sheepshank]

57. if you are on an "iggy" list

I don't think you are suppost to be able to see their posts.

So maybe you are not?

[B2G]

60. No, she can't see mine

A convenient way to avoid having to answer hard questions.

Not that she would, even if she saw the question.

[Egnever]

3. The idea that a specific flavor is targeting children

Just make me want to slap someone.

Yea no adults on the planet like chocolate....And kids just go gaga for pumpkin spice

[Prophet 451]

7. You and me both

But the OP poster is all in favour of it.

[zappaman]

9. Agree it's bullshit.

Not surprised though.

[The Straight Story]

8. Yeah, but using kids as a shield makes things more legit

Kids like horses, and dogs. Budweiser uses them in their ads. But most adults also like a drink now and then so it is not a 'sin'.

You know who kids look to more than ads in making decisions? Adults. Especially ones they see on a regular basis. Folks worried about all those ads are just trying to find another way to control the behavior of other adults and use kids as their excuse.

[Prophet 451]

12. When the US slides into complete fascism

the rationale will be "for the children".

[Mojorabbit]

87. +100 nt

[joeglow3]

90. That pissed me off when some hack was on ABC this morning and made that argument

What a shitty journalist. Honestly, that lame ass argument shows they are clearly a hack with an agenda and not someone interested in reporting the news.

[Warpy]

152. Yeah, that part is just plain stupid

but keeping the nicotine juice away from the kiddies seems like a good idea. So is regulating the e-cigs themselves for safety and the juices to make sure they contain what they say they contain at the level that's supposed to be in there.

Likely a lot of the cheap Chinese stuff won't make it in here. Domestic makers don't have much to worry about.

[Prophet 451]

4. Some regulation is fine

The devil is, as usual, in the details. If they want to impose age restrictions, I'm all for those. Health warnings will probably overstate the dangers but I can live with it. Restrictions on tv advertising are probably fine. But claiming that sweet flavours are targeting young people is ridiculous, like adults should only have "used ashtray", "stale beer" and "moldy jockstrap" as flavours. Adults like their sweets too.

I'm on my first day of no ciggys at all, thanks to my e-cig. You want me to show ID when I buy my liquids, no problem. You want to take away my caramel and cinnamon flavours, go fuck yourself.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. The flavoring of tobacco was forbidden for that reason

so if they are to be treated as tobacco products, they will be treated the same way. The industry won a court case claiming they were tobacco products, since they did not want to be treated any other way.

There is that bed, they made it. Let them lie on it.

[Prophet 451]

6. It was stupid then and it's stupid now

Adults like sweet flavours too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. You might think it is stupid

but they did that because kids were attracted to them.

And menthol apparently had other non healthy effects. Obviously you will be directly affected by this. They are following public health here, not individual users.

For the record, the US will not be the only one to forbid flavors in tobacco products. There is a reason for that. It could not be just the FDA that wants to hurt the consumer. Two examples.

Here

http://portal.anvisa.gov.br/wps/portal/anvisa-ingles/anvisaingles/News/!ut/p/c4/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3hfRw8jD0NnA3cLSw83A08jS18nMwNnAxN3I_2CbEdFAHlqbj8!/?WCM_PORTLET=PC_7_MAH2H1C0G89HF0I29MB60C0441020591_WCM&WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/anvisa+ingles/anvisa/news/anvisa+approves+the+withdrawal+of+flavored+cigarettes

and here

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324694904578597773130189776

[Prophet 451]

16. Yes, the EU is also imposing stupid restrictions

This is about trying to crush e-cigs for teh benefit of Big Tobacco. Your "think of the children" pleading doesn't disguise that fact.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. That is why big tobacco is producing them, right

they are getting crushed by producing the product? How does that work exactly?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/11/22/big-tobacco-admits-defeat-will-develop-e-cigarettes/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/natalierobehmed/2013/09/17/e-cigarette-sales-surpass-1-billion-as-big-tobacco-moves-in/

Do try to explain this one to me. I will be waiting.

[Prophet 451]

21. OK, I'll explain it

Big Tobacco are moving into e-cigs because they spot an opporunity to make a quick profit. But they are making teh move not out of choice but out of sheer opportunism. Big Tobacco would far rarher everyone went back to smoking analogs because most vapers don't vape their horrible products.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. But they are producing them

and that is my point, They are not getting crushed.

Yes, there is a slightly higher profit margin per unit on real cigs, but the user base is dying off. This one is growing up like gangbusters, and while the profit\unit is lower, they are making it up in volume. Why they are jumping in and saying they are getting crushed is truly hyperbole. That is why they sued to be treated like tobacco products. The efficacy \health studies would have killed their profits short term.

[Prophet 451]

28. I give up

You're on some kind of bizarre anti-e-cig crusade like some here and nothing I say will ever make any dent in your preconceptions so I'm not going to bother going any further with this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. I provided data

so please, do give up. I give up as well, have a good day.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

42. you cannot have a polite conversation here

where you disagree with this person... it is a well known historical truth...

sP

[FSogol]

48. Uh oh! Off to the ignore list for you!

[ProdigalJunkMail]

67. i love her idea of ignore...

put you on the iggy and then logout so she can see what you write...

sP

[FSogol]

70. I like when she responds to the people on ignore:

All I see are ignores, but if anyone said x, then....

[Prophet 451]

50. Ah, didn't know that

I shall consider myself warned in future.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

68. eh... take it or leave it...

but there's a lot of history with a lot of posters here... good luck and good posting!

sP

[B2G]

89. I know, right?

Been there, done that.

[energumen]

111. You can never win this one

there are the same 3-5 people that come out for every anti-vaping thread and trot out the same tired, dis-proven arguments. You cant reason with people who must control others to make their own life meaningful.

btw, its been more than 2 years since I smoked a cigarette, admittedly I did have a cigar about 8 months ago. But I am never without at least one of my devices, a backup, and several spare parts. I am not going to take a chance on feeling the need to buy a pack of cigarettes. I still use nicotine containing juices but I have made it down from 24mg to 4-6mg.

[pnwmom]

58. Big tobacco already owns Blue, which has a 49% market share. n/t

[Prophet 451]

61. Of teh e-cigs sold in grocery stores, sure

They don't have much of a stake in teh hundreds of small companies that most people buy their liquids from.

But since I've observed in teh past that you are a complete fanatic on this issue, I'm not expecting anything but denial from you.

[Egnever]

63. Again with this BS

when you can tell me what percentage of the market is held By say Ego-c products I will take you seriously.

[TheKentuckian]

120. I know one blu user and he still smokes a pack a day. I know lots of vapers, most use ego

and any number of cartomizers and juice from various vendors.

Blu is strictly entry level. I moved on to an ego withing a fortnight. Many seem to be now skipping this and starting on ego. Observation says the measurement is off in the "market" and I don't know if mods are counted at all.

I suspect that that Nadine's touted market isn't actually the market at all but a universe of prefilled cartridge cig-a-likes. I'm sure blu is dominating that arena but it sure as hell isn't the ecig market at all.

[Mariana]

123. I'm convinced the tobacco companies

are making such shitty e-cigs on purpose. I think they're hoping that people will try them, hate them, assume all e-cigs are that lousy, and just decide to continue smoking.

[Marr]

149. I've tried to get that point accross to the OP several times.

Doesn't register.

[PeaceNikki]

131. Except they did NOT ban the fun flavors for vape. So YAY!!

[jberryhill]

35. It doesn't matter

People like the one you are arguing with do not understand that most e-cig users purchase liquid and refillable atomizers, and can just add any of the flavors to it.

[Prophet 451]

40. They don't want to understand

I don't know why some on the left have embraced this weird crusade against e-cigs but it pisses me off. In about six weeks, I've gone from fifty a day to four and today is my first day with no analogs at all, purely because of my e-cig.

[seaglass]

52. I think they are just hard core anti-smokers and they don't care one bit that it is helping people

to quit/reduce smoking. I've only seen 2 DUers flipping out about this and both are reacting from emotion and ignorance rather than logic.

[Prophet 451]

55. I can't remember who was posting them

But I've seen a bunch of militant anti-ecig threads in teh last couple of months. It's like they don't just want you to quit, they want you to suffer for teh sin of ever smoking.

[seaglass]

56. I haven't been paying much attention but I thought it was the same 2 over and over. :-) n/t

[Comrade Grumpy]

128. Onehandle, PNWmom, Nadin. We have three people on a weird crusade.

It is a strange obsession with a product that helps smokers quit smoking those nasty cigarettes.

I have a Blu beside me right now, but I think I'm about to go whole hog. I've been smoking for 45 years, my lungs hurt, I've tried all the previous alternatives, but vaping looks like it could actually do it.

I think vaping is going to turn out to be the best smoking cessation system ever. That is a huge boon.

Keep it away from minors, but otherwise, leave me alone.

[dionysus]

156. i bought my first e-cig today, as a matter of fact. i sampled many of them in the shop, and the

taste was so similar to actually smoking (even with no nicotine in the mixture it gave the same sensation as smoking)...

I think this time I can really do it and quit!

[Mariana]

124. Some of them really do hate smokers

so much that they'd prefer they continue to smoke, rather than quit without being miserable. Lots of former smokers thoroughly enjoy vaping. Some like it even more than they ever liked smoking. That just enrages those people. They want smokers to suffer, dammit - even after they've quit.

[Egnever]

64. Holy crap!

That is great!

Good for you!

Keep that up and in a couple more weeks you will start to feel huge improvements in your health!

[Prophet 451]

69. Thanks dude

I'll admit I'm clutching the e-cig in the same way as a child hugs a security blanket but I haven't weakened and lit up so far.

[Egnever]

73. When I first started

I some times fell asleep with mine in my hand.

A weird sensation to "smoke" in bed. Always thinking in the back of my head if I fall asleep I will burn down the house...oh wait no I wont

[Prophet 451]

75. I smoked in bed anyway

The e-cig is certainly safer than that

[notadmblnd]

78. I thought it was only me

I haven't bought cigarettes since last Friday. This is my second day totally smoke free. I'm finding myself clutching my lighter and looking around for smokes. I miss the entire ritual of smoking. The good thing is that today, I have not yet had the urge to kill someone for something I perceive as stupid. BUT, the day's not over yet.

[joeglow3]

93. Awesome job.

I am 24 days smoke free. Skipped the e-cig and just went cold turkey. However, these pretend progressives who take glee in fucking over those trying to quit is disgusting.

[notadmblnd]

95. Thanks. Does the want ever go away?

[joeglow3]

98. It has gotten a lot better

The last week or so, I can count on one hand the number of times a bad urge hit. There were three times that I ALWAYS smoked:

1. Driving to and from work
2. When drinking
3 stressful late nights at work

Number 1 has not been a problem. I have avoided number two for the most part - I have been out once and it was not too bad.

I am nervous about number three, as we are entering my busy time of year at work (May 10-June 15th).

[notadmblnd]

102. Well, good luck during your stressful periods.

I'm gonna keep my e-cig as my handy krutch.

[dionysus]

151. drinking is the HARDEST time for quitting...

[Marr]

150. Congratulations on your progress! /nt

[Warpy]

153. You'll also tend to taper down over time

as you take only enough drags to quiet the nicotine monsters instead of compulsively smoking every butt to the end in order to avoid wasting it.

One caveat, most people say they can't stand the smoke flavored juice after the first couple of weeks when their senses of smell and taste come back. Then they have to switch to more pleasant flavors. I understand the cherry is especially good.

[B2G]

10. Maybe we shoudl stop selling sweet alcohol

to tempting for the kiddies.

[Mariana]

125. I think you're right.

Seriously, does anyone over 18 ever drink Strawberry Hill, for example? Anyone?

[tridim]

14. Cloves, Menthol and Mint aren't flavors?

All available at 7-11.

eCigs are NOT Cigarettes, and they never will be. Sorry.

[beevul]

30. Is this what passes for journalistic integrity these days?

"The industry won a court case claiming they were tobacco products, since they did not want to be treated any other way."

No.

The companies in question, sued for their NOT to be classified as medical devices.

Not quite the same thing.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

81. hehehe...

you said 'integrity'... good one!

sP

[jmowreader]

138. The flavoring of CIGARETTES was forbidden for that reason

Flavored cigars are still legal and readily available.

[Alan Selk]

140. There was only one bed

The alternative to being a tobacco product was to be classified as a drug. In 2009 the FDA was seizing shipments of electronic cigarettes claiming they where a drug delivery device. They got taken to court by the manufactures and lost. The Judge ruled the only way the FDA could regulate them was as a tobacco product.

Being classified as a drug would have been a immediate ban so there was no choice for the industry.

[nadinbrzezinski]

141. So I imagined the lawsuit?

m'kay

By the way, you do know FDA wanted to regulate them due to the medical device claims they were making, right?

[dionysus]

148. once again, as is common, you speak of which you know nothing...

[dionysus]

19. do you like it? any tips on the rig to get?

I don't want to get a cheap one and hate it, and I don't want to get an expensive one without trying it first...

[Prophet 451]

23. I love it

I still get my nicotine fix and the hand-to-mouth repetitive motion but without most of teh horrible chemicals in tobacco and in a nice selection of flavours (my main flavours are a heavy tobacco, cherry and cinnamon).

I'm hesitant to recommend brands since I'm a Brit (this is the one I got). What I will say is that if you try out disposables, do so only to see if you can get used to the sensation. Then, if you can get used to it, buy yourself a decent battery and charger (preferably with an eGo coupling), some clearomisers (combination liquid resevoir and atomiser) and a few bottles of liquids in flavours you want to try. Stick to fairly small bottles at first since your tastes might well change quickly once your taste buds start working properly again. It's a slightly different sensation but you quickly get used to it. Don't buy cheap liquids from newstands and similar, they will taste foul. The brands put out by Big Tobacco pretty much all suck. Look online and you'll find much better liquids in virtually any flavour.

Good luck, dude!

[dionysus]

117. 60 quid for that setup you linked to ain't bad mate!

[SomethingFishy]

26. There are a lot of options...

I've been on the e's for 6 months now.. no more smoking

I stared with the "Blu" e-cig. Got them for free so... Not very satisfying though(weak smoke), and the cartridges are expensive when you have to buy them.. . I tried a few other vapes that friends had, my problem with them was they were too big. The battery and atomizer(where you put the liquid) were huge, you had to carry this bag around with the charger and spare battery and liquid.

What I ended up with was, I'm still using the Blu battery but with an atomizer from Incredi-Pen. You may just want to try the Incredi-Pen to start with. It's small, strong and works great. With the Blu battery it's as satisfying as a regular cig... I'm still looking for other atomizers that fit on the Blu battery..

If you want to go the route I did a Blu starter pack is 35 bucks(two batteries a small usb charging pack and a box of cartridges) and the incredi-pen atomizers are 2 for 10. Each one lasts about 2 weeks.

The liquid is about 5 bucks a bottle, I have been trying to use "Voodoo" brand when I can find it, it seems to taste the best and last the longest.. I go through about a bottle and a half a week..

I feel better, I'm breathing better, and at about 17 bucks a week I'm saving about $160 a month...

Win, win, win. In spite of what the naysayers are bitching about.

[LadyHawkAZ]

31. eGo batteries are inexpensive and good for beginners

Just about every vape seller carries them, too. I'd recommend the iClear 30 or Kanger Protank to go with it.

[jberryhill]

36. The protank mini is a little less intimidating for new users

[LadyHawkAZ]

41. or the EVOD. I was thinking function over form, lol n/t

[tridim]

44. I just ordered some eGo Twist variable voltage 1100mah batts...

Mostly for compatibility, which was seriously lacking in my Halo pen vapes. I hate getting locked in to one company's replacement products.

Have you tried the wickless tanks yet?

[Prophet 451]

51. Great choice

Same batteries I have. Let me know how you get on with teh wickless tanks.

[LadyHawkAZ]

80. I have, but I wasn't as impressed by them as I've been with the IClear

My current setup is the iTaste VV with the iClear tank, and until I feel like ponying up for the 134 mod, this is probably where I'll stay for awhile.

[tridim]

136. Wickless, thumbs down so far.

I think a Protank II is in my future.

[RobinA]

132. I've Been Waiting

for this subject to come up again. I just knew some anti would have to stir the pot... I want to thank DU vapers for having this conversation and taking the time to educate. About a month and a half ago it came up a lot on here. I had never considered nicotine replacement because I didn't smoke that much and I didn't want to end up more addicted than I was.

However, thanks to the conversation on DU, I learned that nic concentrations were variable. Thanks to what I read on here I started researching and ended up with a couple EVODs. So...cigarette free now for 23 days and LOVING vaping. Thanks DUers!

And thanks anti people, for keeping the subject alive so some of us could learn about it and kick an unhealthy habit. We used to have a saying, which has fallen into disuse as both a saying and a philosophy in these ugly times, it was "Live and let live."

[LadyHawkAZ]

133. Congrats!

[pecwae]

135. I'm so happy

for you and the others who now have another avenue to help you kick the habit. As an ex-smoker I know how difficult it is.

I didn't even know what a ecig looked like until a week ago. Guy came into the office with this silver tube in his mouth and I had to ask. I'm super-duper sensitive to smells and my nose picked up nothing. No odor, no smoke, no nothing that anyone else could object to. Win-win all around.

[tridim]

137. I've been vaping for a month or so and have already ordered e-juice with less nicotine

Oh how I wish vapes were available when I was younger. I would have NEVER smoked cigs.

[dionysus]

143. i went with a vision spinner 1300 adjustable volt battery, and a kanger e-vod 2 coil tank.

[LadyHawkAZ]

157. Good choice

Be sure to keep the EVOD at least half full or it will leak a bit (Kanger design flaw) and don't overtighten it, or it will crush your contact pad (I killed 3 batteries this way

How do you like it so far?

[Egnever]

32. Some tips

Been at it 2 years now heres my two cents.

If at all possible go to a vape shop. Not a smoke shop that sells vapes but a vape shop. Plan on spending an hour or so there. If at all possible dont smoke for as long as you can before walking in the door.

Settle in and try flavors. Dont get too focussed on tobacco flavors none of them are really that great but some are good enough. Try things you dont think you would like like watermelon mint or some such weird combination. The hardest part in my opinion is finding a flavor you really enjoy. If you find that the rest is easy.

As far as first equipment goes. The tried and true are the Ego-type batteries with a tank on top. They are relatively inexpensive to get set up with if you look around. I am a fan of the protanks for the juice holding portion they offer the best mix of performance/durability and ease of use in my opinion.

If the idea of carrying a big battery around makes you uncomfortable i would take a look at an Eroll http://www.joyetech.com/product/eRoll.php

They are fairly close to the same size as a cigarette, the performance on them is much better than your typical blue or similar, and they are dead simple to fill. They are also pretty reasonably priced.

Dont set your expectations too high.

Ecigs are different than smoking. It is similar but different.

Be sure to drink liquids. Ecigs tend to dry out your mouth and throat so drinking lots of liquids helps a lot.

They certainly dont work for everyone but they work for many and worked for me. I got lucky and hit on a juice right away that i loved I drove around with the same pack i went into the vape shop with in my car for a month or two and never touched them.

Lastly anything you ever wanted to know about Ecigs can be found here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/

Best of luck and if you do make it enjoy your refound sense of smell and taste though the smelling part can be a little ugly at first. So many stinky things you never noticed LOL

[dionysus]

142. i went with a vision spinner 1300 adjustable volt battery, and a kanger e-vod 2 coil tank.

wish me luck, I officially start tomorrow!

(there happened to be a vape shop less than 2 miles from my house!)

[Egnever]

144. Nice!

That is a solid starter set up.

Best of luck. I think you will find it incredibly easy. It was so easy for me I felt guilty about it.

[dionysus]

145. it tastes incredibly like a real cig... even coughed a few times. i tried out stuff for like 45 min.

i was gonna go hogwild on flavors but the guy's like dude that juice lasts a long time, just get one bottle for now... so I walked out 65 bucks total including the juice.

and the place is a dedicated vape shop literally 2 miles down the road.

they suggested the adjustable voltage because they said each one of their juices they make has a "sweet spot" of voltage to produce the most vapor, and it's different for each one...

[Egnever]

146. Really nice to have one so close

adjustable voltage is nice cause you can find YOUR sweet spot.

I would argue with the guy in that one tabacco is good but i would also get a non tobacco. As your taste buds start coming back that tobbacco will likely start tasting worse and worse.

Also some extra wicks are good buy for the tank sometimes the wicks can start tasting burnt quickly. Replacing them can turn pretty nasty vape back to a pleasing one.

There is something really cool about smoking a nice carmel coffee flavor, Like getting your desert and your cigarette all at the same time.

Whatever works for you is what is best though. Grats on your start date!

[dionysus]

147. the flavor i went with is tobacco but has a coffee hint to it... there were fruity flavors

like strawberry ice that were tasty.. and even get this.. cheesecake graham cracker crust... he warned me.. the exotic flavors may taste great when you try them but you want something you can vape all day without getting rapidly sick of, for example, the peanut butter cup flavor. said he'd rather I come back once a week and get something than buy months worth of juice at a time that I might not like.

next i'll try clove, or butter rum, maybe the strawberry, or coffee or blackberry, or peppermint mocha; they have several dozen flavors and I must have sampled a dozen I liked...

he said to come back and replace the wick every 2 weeks, they cost 2.99

[Egnever]

154. sounds like a good shop

Wicks will vary, especially in the beginning when you are figuring out the voltages.
Also type of juice has a big effect on how long wicks last.

I agree fully with him about buying a bunch of juice. Like he said it is great if you can find an all day vape but it can be hard at first to find that.

Having a shop near by where you can taste juices is a great resource. Sounds like the guy knows what he is doing too so even better.

Don't forget to drink fluids also if /when you go to vaping exclusively it is pretty normal in the first couple of weeks to get a sore throat. Don't get freaked out if it happens it passes in a few days.

If you really start to enjoy it you should check out FastTech.com it is a China wholesale site and if you have the patience to wait for the shipping you can save a ton on equipment.

Anyway grats again and good luck!

[dionysus]

155. thank you! i am awaiting the new experience\challenge... and increased breathing capacity and less %

chance of early death....
I do have a feeling my house won't smell so good in a few days

[dionysus]

158. so far so good, i'm diggin it...

[Demit]

37. Look into the eGo, as well.

Rechargeable batteries, slim size, different DIY options for later on, once you get the hang of things, to save even more money.

It really is the most remarkable thing. I never thought I'd quit smoking (I'm almost there!) I smell better, the house smells better, I'm not short of breath anymore. The most important and long-lasting thing, I think, is that it has broken me of the habit of lighting up. I take a little puff of the inhaler once in awhile and it holds me. Not like when I would take repeated puffs of a cigarette until it was gone, just because I had lit it, even if I didn't really want or need it.

[pokerfan]

65. Happy with my Ego/CE5

The Ego refers to the battery. I got two plus a charger. The CE5 refers to the "clearomizer." I got two of those as well plus a five-pack of the atomizers (the coil/wick assembly).



I get the e-liquid from getyourvapeon.com.

[Prophet 451]

74. Looks very similar to my kit

Some cosmetic differences but much the same.

[notadmblnd]

96. is that a starter kit? How much do they run?

[tridim]

106. Blister packs (w/ a battery, tank and charger) are $15-$25 each.

The kits are more expensive if you want a case. My pocket is my case.

I got mine here (no affiliation):
http://www.goodejuice.com/store/electronic-cigarette-kits-goodejuice-ce5-blister-kits-c-12_131.html

[pokerfan]

107. yeah, it was ~$50

AKA about the price of a carton of stinkies. A 30ml bottle of 24mg liquid lasts me about a month and costs the same as a single pack, ~$8. FWIW, I was about a half pad smoker.

[notadmblnd]

108. Thanks for the info

I'm really trying to learn about this as I've recently stopped lighting up. So far, I've been using the disposable and they're ok, but I know that I may not want to limit my self nicotine only.

[pokerfan]

109. The tank on the CE5 holds ~1.5 ml of liquid

so I refill it daily as I don't like to let it get below 2/3 empty as I understand that the wicks could dry out. A little cleaning every couple weeks and it's much cheaper than the disposables.

[CBGLuthier]

110. I love that some of you folks call it a "rig." The exact perfect word for the mechanism I think.

[TheKentuckian]

112. My main is an itaste MVP I usually go with a metal viva nova but have a couple of glass kangers

Then a couple of ego variable voltage batteries as backup that mostly only get used while the MVP charges

[dionysus]

116. thanks!

[Mariana]

122. If it comes to that

the vendors will just sell unflavored fluid in one bottle, the flavoring in another, and the sweetener in a third, and we'll combine them ourselves at home. Some vendors are already doing this anyway, because some people like more or less flavor or sweetness in their fluids. I already add stevia liquid to some of my flavored fluids because I like them sweeter than my vendor makes them.

Congratulations, by the way, on not smoking. It's a big deal.

[zappaman]

11. On no!

[Tikki]

15. Would you still vap if the sweet flavor was taken out of all e cigarettes?

Y/N?



Tikki

[Prophet 451]

17. Probably

I'd be monumentally pissed off that my caramel, cherry and cinnamon flavours were gone but I'd probably keep vaping. And if they banned it outright (as they clearly want to do by regulating it to death), I'd just go back to smoking.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. I could not answer, I do not do it

I guess my asthma would really take a turn for the worst if I did. I was near a gent at the county fair who was and I started to wheeze. I always carry an inhaler, and I did not realize he was. I honestly was looking for the smoker who should not be smoking.

This year the San Diego County Fair is not going to allow it. I am actually glad they are not, to be honest.

[laundry_queen]

22. I have asthma and I occasionally vape

it's never bothered me at all - and it's never aggravated my asthma (which is so bad at times it's aggravated by cold air, which sucks where I live). I use nicotine free ejuice. I looked up the ingredients and it's the same things that used to be used in mist tents for CF kids back in the day (and are currently in some inhalers)...so I'm decently confident those ingredients aren't going to suddenly make my lungs totally spasm or anything. I'm ok with age limits and some indoor restrictions or private property restriction (I only vape at home anyway) but I do think people are going way OTT with regards to this. Really.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Well the way I see it is, they companies sued to be treated like tobacco products

since they did not want the more stringent oversight. Now that the FDA, and state and local, governments are treating them like tobacco (or rather starting to) I will hear the hue and cry.

They made their bed.

And some people's asthma is indeed triggered by them. Hell, cigarette smoke does in ways that almost sent me to an ER. Yet, and both me and my doctor are confused, when we cover wild fires I am mostly ok. I still carry my inhaler, but the bandana with activated charcoal does the trick. I don't want to carry that everywhere.

[B2G]

34. You keep spouting this, and it's not true

They sued to not be classified as a nicotine replacement drug.

Sheesh.

[Egnever]

39. People keep repeating that as if the ecig business is some organized business collective

By and large it is not. It is for the most part thousands of mom and pops shops making their own liquids and many companies making different mods and tanks and other accessories.

This line that they sued to be treated like tobacco is BS. One company out of hundreds sued none of the other manufacturers were a party to that suit.

[Prophet 451]

47. The mom and pop websites

are where I get most of my liquids although here in the UK, it's more a bunch of techies than a literal mom and pop. But I buy from small companies like VapeEscape and TotallyWicked-eliquid. And I'm pretty sure that most people who vape do the same.

[Demit]

46. You keep saying "they," as if there is one giant monolith.

There are the big tobacco companies, and then there are the mom-and-pop suppliers of nicotine vaping equipment & supplies. The former are the ones that government is aiming to placate, and the latter are the ones who will be hurt.

I don't know why your asthma is triggered by vapor, but please show me why you are extrapolating to say "some people's" asthma is, as well. Who are these people you speak for?

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Becuase I am not the only one who has experienced that

why the County Fair is saying NYET to it.

And by the way, big tobacco is a huge player in this business now.

I could provide you links, like I did to prophet, but at this point, it does not matter. Information is not going to convince anybody.

For the record, so we are scientifically sound, my experience and that of my neighbor, and that reported by a public official about a friend, fall in the category of anecdotal. We may very well be having a mild allergic attack to something in it.

[laundry_queen]

85. Bad body odor and greasy hair smell always triggers my asthma

I wish someone would ban those things in public places. (tongue in cheek, everyone)

[B2G]

86. And strong perfume

and pollen.

[laundry_queen]

88. It's weird

I personally don't have issues with perfume, unless it's ridiculously strong. My mother, OTOH, doesn't even have asthma and chokes up if someone has on too much perfume.

My asthma prefers perfume to body odor. I have no idea why, LOL. It hates mildew smell too. Oh, and moth balls...seriously I have a hard time going into discount stores that smell of moth balls because what it does to my lungs.

Oh, also, I enjoy burning incense on occasion and it doesn't bother me at all, whereas my ex-h cannot be in the same room as the smoke from incense (he also does not have asthma). Everyone has different triggers. You can't ban everything. And everyone always thinks their triggers are the most important ones that should be banned right now, LOL. ETA: oops, guess we can't ban pollen!

[Demit]

92. Yes, you very well may be. And it very well might be psychosomatic.

Consider that you might very well be conflating nicotine with tobacco, as if they are the same thing. That after forty some years of having it drilled in that smoking cigarettes is a bad thing, you automatically, instinctively, consider that nicotine is the reason.

I know that Big Tobacco is moving in on this. They realize that they are losing smokers to vaping and, unlike the old days, those ex-smokers are not being replaced by new ones. Of course they are going to want to replace this potential lost revenue. Of course they want to cash in on the growing trend. And they are going to want to make it as expensive as possible, as expensive as smoking cigarettes, the way it is NOT at present.

MY point here is that the fact that Big Tobacco is a player is not as impressive as you seem to think it is, as if OMG, they're the Big Bad Wolf, and if they support vaping then that means vaping is bad, QED.

I mean, you've been on these threads before. You know that we know Big Tobacco is involved. So it's a little irritating that you feel you need to tell me "by the way, big tobacco is a huge player." So what? WE keep telling YOU that there are plenty of little players, and they're the ones we give our custom to. And Big Tobacco knows it, and the various levels of government know it, because they're losing revenue too, and maybe if WE keep repeating ourselves to YOU, you will know it too. And maybe the newcomers to these threads will take OUR information & facts into account too, along with your irrelevant ones.

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. Well the FDA is about to regulate them

and by the way, nicotine has on it's own, very real cardiac effects.

Live with it or not, I really do not care.

They are not as mild as caffeine by the way.

And you are right, those facts reported by major and minor media, based on CDC research are irrelevant. Have a good day.

[Demit]

99. Yes, nicotine is an alkaloid, as is caffeine. Caffeine has cardiac effects too.

Oh but you really do care, or you wouldn't be starting threads like this. You have a very decided point of view and you list your cites and articles, and think they are persuasive, but we have cites and articles too.

Living with it? That's exactly what we ARE doing. Switching to something that doesn't coat our lungs with tar and carcinogenic chemicals, or make us cough and be short of breath, or make our teeth brown. It's harm reduction therapy, the way that the expensive prescription nicotine replacement drugs are, only it doesn't require a prescription, it isn't expensive, and it works. And those facts have ANOTHER big player scared shitless—Big Pharma.
Governments want to placate that big player too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

104. I just posted a RELEVANT news story

you can always put me on ignore, trash the threads, and mostly hide under the bed. These regulations are coming. Enjoy.

[Demit]

113. I don't need to put you on ignore.

Your posts will get you ignored all on their own.

[nadinbrzezinski]

115. Good, once again, I posted a news story from the LA Times

I know it bothers you, but that is a relevant news story. Do whatever you want to do with that.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

118. putting everyone on ignore is YOUR tactic

after insults and deleting your posts...

sP

[zappaman]

127. To be fair, it "creative ignore"

that's where you say you have someone on ignore, but you logout to read what they say anyway and then respond to what they are saying but not acknowledging you actually saw their post.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

139. i stand corrected... n/t

[notadmblnd]

101. I bought two packages of cookies yesterday

both had pecans. I offered one type cookie to my son's girlfriend and when she asked what kind. I told her that they were chocolate chip with dark chocolate and pecans. She said, "no thanks, I don't like pecans". Then I offered her one of the other cookies I had. They were a shortbread with one side dipped in dark chocolate and nuts sprinkled on top. I did not tell her the nuts were pecans. I showed them to her and she said "those look like peanuts, I like peanuts. Thank you." She took one and went to her room.

A short while later, she came into my room and asked me if I had anymore of those cookies and I handed her the bag. Today the cookies are gone. I only had one. I guess she doesn't like pecans as much as she thought she did.

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. And this has to do with the price of tea in china how?

Look I get it you like your E-Cigs, the industry did not want to be regulated by the FDA, they insisted on this being treated as Tobacco. Go complaint to them. Serious.

They are now being treated that way, not just in the United States. Of course if TTP passes, you will love it. All those pesky regulations and a trade court.

[pnwmom]

59. It's good you're careful. Not all the flavorings are safe though,

if you search pro-vape sites. One of the flavorings is related to "popcorn lung."

[seaglass]

72. Yes and most vapers are aware of Diacetyl. Those who create ejuice will disclose if they do or do

not use it in their flavorings.

[pnwmom]

79. But other companies continue to sell it. These regulations will now require

the producers to reveal the ingredients they use to the FDA, and I think that's a good thing.

[seaglass]

84. I wonder how they are going to do that and who are the producers. The B&M that I go to mixes

their own ejuice but does not make the ingredients, the flavorings come from other companies. I wouldn't have a problem with the flavoring companies reporting whether their flavorings contain diacetyl. I wouldn't have a problem with the convenience store ecig makers reporting that info either.

[Mariana]

126. Yes.

Adding flavoring and/or sweetener to plain vaping fluid is not exactly rocket science. If the sale of flavored liquid is banned, we'll just have to buy the flavorings and/or sweeteners separately and mix them up at home.

[LadyHawkAZ]

27. Perfect. pretty much exactly what I wanted to see

Sensible restrictions.

[B2G]

33. They never stop at 'sensible'. nt

[LadyHawkAZ]

38. Sometimes the FDA does get it right.

They declined to implement rules based on hysteria and went for sensible instead, which I think is an encouraging sign. It's in everyone's best interests (everyone who is not a Big Tobacco exec, anyway) not to over-regulate, and hopefully they have realized this.

[Prophet 451]

43. I wish I shared your optimism

The EU just enacted some really stupid rules (such as banning liquids of more than 10ml, banning strengths above 20mg and banning tanks of more than 2ml) which will come in over the next two years.

[B2G]

45. Wait for it

"Regulators do not yet have scientific evidence for a rule on flavorings, but the subject is still being researched"

And then of course will come the banning of using them in any public place, without a shred of evidence that it's harming anyone, including the person doing the vaping.

[Prophet 451]

53. That's what worries me

Next will come a ban on sweet flavours (like the OP wants) on the "think of teh children" excuse.

[LadyHawkAZ]

82. I have no intention of waiting for it, believe me

I'll continue writing letters and signing petitions like I've been. But the fact that they chose to go with sense over hysteria gives me a little hope.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. But some people are still having cows over it

and confusing LOCAL regulations, with Federal regulations.

I know locally the county fair, the County Board and multiple cities are forbidding their use in public spaces, just like tobacco.

[B2G]

83. They can try to ban it all they want, but they can't

There's no way to detect it. I smoked mine on a flight to San Francisco last week. No smell, no smoke.

Good luck trying though.

[Demit]

97. I know, right?

Unless they see the vapor come out of your mouth there's no way to know. And 2 seconds later even that vapor is gone. These bans are all feel-good measures. And there are plenty of liberals who like to ban things, as we see periodically on DU. Plenty of the righteous here.

[Historic NY]

66. Pretty soon they may go the way of real cigarettes...

A New York hospital is banning electronic cigarettes after a patient on oxygen was burned by a fire that erupted while she was puffing on one of the devices.
Syracuse Fire Department investigator Joe Galloway tells The Post-Standard the exact cause of last month's fire at St. Joseph's Hospital Health Center has not yet been determined.
But he says the patient had a battery-powered e-cigarette, which uses a heating element to vaporize nicotine.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2610429/NY-hospital-bans-e-cigarettes-fire-injury.html#ixzz2zpZto3GU

A grandmother was fighting for her life last night after suffering serious burns in a fire that may have been caused by her electronic cigarette, her family said.

Jean Booth, 65, was engulfed in flames after her oxygen tubes caught fire while she was being treated for breathing difficulties at the Wythenshawe Hospital in Manchester, according to The Sun.

She is said to have suffered life-threatening burns to her scalp and face.

“We’re all in total shock,” a relative told The Sun. “Her face is completely burnt. It’s covered up with bandages. She might be blinded. It’s absolutely horrendous.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4062858.ece

http://www.wmur.com/Man-Dies-Of-Cardiac-Arrest-In-Manchester-Fire/11837312

These things are no safer but apparently the message didn't get out.

[Prophet 451]

71. "no safer"? Bullshit

They're vastly safer than analogs. You're using a fluke occurrence to ride a hobbyhorse.

[seaglass]

76. Remember when some laptop batteries caused fires? BAN LAPTOPS! n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. Oxygen enriched atmosphere, heating element

that is not a fluke occurrence, it is two of the three elements needed to get combustion going.

The third is a fuel.

It does not matter if the heat element is a battery, or an actual cigarette, I can can clearly see them banned in hospitals, for the same exact reason. Those are not flukes, those are easily preventable accidents.

And yes, it is very basic science.

For the record, my dad, we had to watch him. He was so addicted to nicotine that we had to remind him often that smoking while on Oxygen was an accident waiting to happen. Addiction does that to people though, clouds all kinds of judgement. And if he ever touched an E-Cig this former paramedic would have given the exact same warning... a heating element, oxygen, is just an accident waiting to happen.

There are days... this fits on steroids

[B2G]

100. Hope you don't own a cell phone then

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/06/19/seen-at-11-exploding-cell-phones-pose-a-serious-danger/&sa=U&ei=p3JZU9yKBM6cyAT_8oK4Dg&ved=0CDQQtwIwBw&usg=AFQjCNEwsKaBMfvLZa79XYoA0s19CEr1bw

[FSogol]

105. Or Rollerblade Barbie

http://www.rollernews.com/rollerblade-barbie_929.html

[B2G]

77. No safer than what? nt

[Historic NY]

114. Start chewing...

[MindPilot]

121. Yeah, I'll support an e-cig ban when the same rules apply to chew.

These bans are not about banning tobacco use, they are about banning any thing that looks like smoking.

I can't pull out my e-cig (0% nicotine--flavor only) at the airport, yet I can sit right beside a guy spitting into a bottle.

Just seeing that makes me want to puke.

[TorchTheWitch]

119. any other heat source combined stupidly with oxygen

Electrical sockets should be banned too since they're so dangerous... when some dumbass decides to stick a fork in one.

Cigarette lighters have been known to explode when left on the dashboard in a hot car. They should all be banned for being so dangerous. And matches! Ban them all! FIRES are started with matches! Gods, the whole POINT to matches is to start fires!

For that matter, knives can kill people. Ban every one... people can spread peanut butter with their fingers and cut their meat with their fingernails instead.

My God, SHOES! You can stab someone with a high heeled shoe or brain someone to death with a boot. Ban them all! They're WAY too dangerous.

Show shovels! ANY kind of shovel! You can BEHEAD a person with a shovel! Horribly dangerous things. Move snow or dig dirt with your hands.

Lord have mercy, WATER!!! How damn dangerous is THAT??? People DROWN in water all the damn time! Ban all water!!!. Oceans are just a nuisance being in everyone's way anyhow.

[Historic NY]

129. Whats worst is spontaneous human combustion.....

EOM.

[TorchTheWitch]

130. Oh hell yeah

Ban all people. We're really dangerous stuff.

[RobinA]

134. A Spark

coming into contact with concentrated oxygen caused an inferno. Who knew?