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Thu May 1, 2014, 12:23 PM

All you pro-death penalty people who say it's not about revenge or any other negative

reason have you ever seen the large groups of people who congregate outside of a jail when someone is to be executed who are cheering and having a grand old time that this person is going to die or has just died?

Are they there because they think that the murder rates is now going to go down and thus they cheer?

Are they there because this execution will make our country safer and thus they cheer?

Or are they just into revenge and like the idea of killing and use this barbaric practice to indulge themselves in something they would never do themselves?

If the death penalty does not make the homicide rate go down and indeed the evidence suggests that it causes the homicide rate to go up because it creates a society that condones murder. And if the death penalty causes the states to spend more money than they would if they person were just locked up for life. If it tortures the families of the criminals and if we are the last country in the civilized world to uphold it.

Why are these people cheering?

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Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply All you pro-death penalty people who say it's not about revenge or any other negative (Original post)
Maraya1969 May 2014 OP
TreasonousBastard May 2014 #1
unblock May 2014 #2
Orsino May 2014 #3
FBaggins May 2014 #4
Maraya1969 May 2014 #9
FBaggins May 2014 #14
Maraya1969 May 2014 #20
Throd May 2014 #5
Open_n_Shut May 2014 #22
Sheepshank May 2014 #6
DanTex May 2014 #7
Sheepshank May 2014 #15
DanTex May 2014 #16
Sheepshank May 2014 #17
DanTex May 2014 #18
Maraya1969 May 2014 #8
Shoulders of Giants May 2014 #11
MO_Moderate May 2014 #10
Maraya1969 May 2014 #19
MO_Moderate May 2014 #21
Tierra_y_Libertad May 2014 #12
el_bryanto May 2014 #13

Response to Maraya1969 (Original post)

Thu May 1, 2014, 12:31 PM

1. Simple bloodlust...

and the madding of crowds.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Original post)

Thu May 1, 2014, 12:46 PM

2. if killing anybody's such a terrible crime /

why does this bloodthirsty chorus come round from time to time

let him dangle
do do, do do do do, do do do, do
let him dangle
do do, do do do do, do do do, do

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Response to Maraya1969 (Original post)

Thu May 1, 2014, 12:58 PM

3. The call for executions comes primarily from people...

...who have little to no acquaintance with the facts of a given case. Their drive for revenge seems simple bloodlust.

The word "closure" comes up a lot in connection to those who knew the victim or the victim's family, but I am unable to distinguish the need for closure from a sick desire to prevent exoneration of the accused. Capital crimes are terrible, and exhausting to think about, but why must that require an execution?

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Response to Maraya1969 (Original post)

Thu May 1, 2014, 12:59 PM

4. Your argument is circular.

You believe that it's about revenge despite the other side's protestations... so you view the supposed "cheering and having a grand old time" (not something that I've seen in prior executions) are therefore celebrating the revenge.

That doesn't logically follow... let alone that they "like the idea of killing"

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #4)

Thu May 1, 2014, 01:36 PM

9. If they don't like the idea of "killing" or "revenge" what are they cheering about?

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #9)

Thu May 1, 2014, 01:49 PM

14. Justice? Closure? Retribution?

(And no - retribution and revenge are distinct concepts)

Perhaps they feel that a measure of justice in a society is whether the measure of punishment for a crime depends on the attrocity of the crime committed. Perhaps they feel that when a punished adult still gets nutritious meals, recreation, communication, perhaps even entertainment... while the raped/slaughtered victimes are still dead... that they do not live in a just society. And they celebrate justice being restored.

There are reasonable arguments for the contrary positios (that it isn't a deterent... or that victims' families do not always feel a sense of closure... or that taking a life cannot be justice in any real sense)... and no doubt you're preparted to argue that. But you're missing the point. You can't state that a given rationale is incorrect and then declare that it cannot therefore be their reason for "celebrating" - because their reasons for celebration do not need to match what you consider to be valid motivations in order to not be "revenge-driven" or just enjoying killing.

I place "celebrating" in quotes... because every such vigil that I'm aware of has been a very somber occasion. I've never seen (or seen reported) people having a "grand old time". Can you provide some examples?

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #14)

Thu May 1, 2014, 09:01 PM

20. Example - Ted Bundy. And the fact that black men are sentenced to death at a rate at least

40% higher than white men gives you no pause when you think of the word, "justice"?

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-penalty-black-and-white-who-lives-who-dies-who-decides#The Raw Data

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Response to Maraya1969 (Original post)

Thu May 1, 2014, 01:02 PM

5. I don't have to answer for them. Why don't you ask them?

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Response to Throd (Reply #5)

Fri May 2, 2014, 09:27 AM

22. That's the answer...

 

"I dunno, that's not me.. Why don't you go take a poll?"

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Response to Maraya1969 (Original post)

Thu May 1, 2014, 01:05 PM

6. pretty shallow thinking imho

 

people often and rightly regard punishment as different from revenge. Think of parenting.

What you are pissed at is the level of punshment some are willing to administer. That is NOT the same as revenge.

Issuing wide and broad labelling and judgements to people you know nothing about doesn't help any arguement.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #6)

Thu May 1, 2014, 01:16 PM

7. Umm, the death penalty isn't part of responsible parenting.

Punishment can serve different purposes, primarily discipline, deterrence, and retribution.

Punishment in the context of parents serves as discipline and deterrence. The death penalty is about retribution (i.e. revenge).

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Response to DanTex (Reply #7)

Thu May 1, 2014, 01:50 PM

15. But realizing there is a difference between PUNISHMENT and REVENGE, IS a part of parenting

 

are you really telling me there is nt difference, and parents should parent from the perspective of revenge?

While I don't proport to support executions per se, i do recognize thatother do see executions as punishment and not revenge. NO ONE, not you, not the OP can tell me you have an insiders view of everyone in this nation with regards to why they do ro do not support this type of punichment. To pass sweeping judgements on why persons support or don't support a particular action, is based purely on a shallow misperception and is just plain incorrect.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #15)

Thu May 1, 2014, 02:03 PM

16. Well, revenge is one of the rationales for punishment.

Actually, retribution is the more accurate term here, because revenge is personal -- i.e. the victim of a crime might want revenge, but a third-party observer who wasn't individually hurt can only really be interested in retribution -- the idea that people who do harm deserve to have harm done to them.

Punishment can also serve to discipline -- this is primarily what parents use punishment for. It's not that they think that their children deserve to suffer for missing curfew or whatever, it's that being grounded will make the kids more likely to obey the rules in the future, and generally be good respectful people. Another purpose is deterrence. And, with respect to incarceration, another purpose is keeping criminals separate from the population so they can't commit crimes.

But the death penalty can't be justified on any of these other grounds. The only rationale is retribution, and that is certainly not in any way comparable to parents punishing their children.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #16)

Thu May 1, 2014, 06:30 PM

17. nope...clearly you are not speaking for everyone.

 

The only rationale is retribution....


each to his own...I simply don't agree with your assessment.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #17)

Thu May 1, 2014, 07:23 PM

18. Of course I'm not speaking for everyone.

Some people are simply idiots, and believe in things for all sorts of irrational reasons. The only plausible, rational reason to support the death penalty is retribution. But, of course, I'm sure there are plenty of people who will give all kinds of nonsensical explanations for there beliefs.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #6)

Thu May 1, 2014, 01:35 PM

8. Parents don't jump for glee when they punish their children. Unless there is something wrong with

the parents.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #8)

Thu May 1, 2014, 01:38 PM

11. unfortunately I think too many parents do jump for glee when punishing their children.

I think that's why spanking persists, despite every study saying that spanking gives children emotion troubles and doesn't solve problems long terms. Spanking creates far more problems than it fixes in children. However, many parents still do it. I think they do it, because parents get off on causing pain to their children who are bothering them. I've seen my brothers spank their kids because they were angry, not because it was an effective discipline technique. One of them even pretty much admitted that's what he was doing. I've got on them about it, but they continue. I find it sickening.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Original post)

Thu May 1, 2014, 01:37 PM

10. Why are these people cheering?

 

Because people started having candlelight vigils for those about to be executed for murdering innocent people?

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Response to MO_Moderate (Reply #10)

Thu May 1, 2014, 08:54 PM

19. The people holding candlelight vigils are doing it because a murder is going to take place that is

sanctioned by the state. I think they are praying for the lost soul of a country that is so barbaric that it would murder its' own people.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #19)

Fri May 2, 2014, 09:15 AM

21. Yep, that's their misguided reasoning

 

And in response to such reasoning, others decided to show up and show their support for the killing of someone who murdered an innocent person.
They are cheering because they understand the difference between killing and murder.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Original post)

Thu May 1, 2014, 01:41 PM

12. There is no error so monstrous that it fails to find defenders among the ablest men. Lord Acton

 

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Response to Maraya1969 (Original post)

Thu May 1, 2014, 01:44 PM

13. The fact that some people believe it's about revenge doesn't preclude other people

from thinking it's about something else.

Bryant

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