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Swede

(33,233 posts)
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 01:28 PM Mar 2012

How did legal observers and Obamacare backers get it so wrong? By Greg Sargent

snip

This now looks like a terrible misjudgment. During oral arguments this week, Scalia invoked the broccoli argument to question the goverment’s case. He mocked the government’s position with a reference to the “cornhusker kickback,” even though that’s not in the law. As Fried notes, this language is straight out of the Tea Party guerrilla manual that was written during the battle to prevent Obamacare from becoming law in the first place.

All of which is to say that the law's proponents were badly caught off guard by the depth of the conservative bloc’s apparent hostility towards the law and its willingness to embrace the hard right’s arguments against its constitutionality. They didn’t anticipate that this could shape up as an ideological death struggle over the heart and soul of the Obama presidency, which, as E.J. Dionne notes today, is exactly what it has become.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/how-did-obamacares-backers-get-it-so-wrong/2012/03/29/gIQArH5wiS_blog.html

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How did legal observers and Obamacare backers get it so wrong? By Greg Sargent (Original Post) Swede Mar 2012 OP
no excuse for being caught "off gaurd"- the teabaggers have been threatening nashville_brook Mar 2012 #1
Absolutely. "Caught off-guard." Dear God! calimary Mar 2012 #4
I'd respond to this thread gratuitous Mar 2012 #13
Man! You hit it outta the ballpark again, gratuitous. calimary Mar 2012 #14
How many people here or elsewhere believed that it would be a "slam dunk" Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2012 #2
i'll admit this barbtries Mar 2012 #7
Don't lose heart Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2012 #8
thanks barbtries Mar 2012 #9
NPR is a decent news source Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2012 #10
not when it comes to politics any more... barbtries Mar 2012 #11
I agree with you about their coverage of politics Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2012 #12
The law's backers thought that enacting a Heritage Foundation plan immunized it from criticism DJ13 Mar 2012 #3
And they still don't understand anything about messaging. calimary Mar 2012 #5
conservative judges barbtries Mar 2012 #6

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
1. no excuse for being caught "off gaurd"- the teabaggers have been threatening
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 01:31 PM
Mar 2012

violence since the summer the public option was laid to rest.

calimary

(81,220 posts)
4. Absolutely. "Caught off-guard." Dear God!
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:06 PM
Mar 2012

What utter bullshit. These stupid naive know-nothings were born yesterday? They truly don't understand who and what they're up against? They're THAT gullible??!?!?!?!?!? They haven't seen enough evidence and enough proof?

I keep hearing, from Democrats, various versions of "the American people will understand!" WRONG! "They'll know!" WRONG! "They'll see the benefits and they'll get it." WRONG! "They'll see the benefits and they'll understand!" WRONG! "They'll see how health care reform has helped them, and ... " WRONG! "Those benefits will speak for themselves." WRONG! And my newest favorite: "The American people aren't stupid." WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!!

When they're being force-fed a constant stream of negativity and criticism and distortions and lies, it wouldn't matter if Obama and all the Dems arrived at their front door with checks made out to pay for ANY of their most drastic healthcare needs for the rest of their lives! They'd STILL believe the propaganda instead of their own lying eyes. They've been trained by now, over some 30 years of carefuly crafted and shrewdly delivered CONservative propaganda to vote against their own interests because, well, that trickle-down stuff will SURELY trickle down to them someday if they just keep believing. God will provide. The GOP way will make them all rich. And there won't be any more of those annoying blacks and brown-skins or uppity women getting in their way. It'll be magic! A nice, white America like a lot of them grew up believing in while they watched "Ozzie and Harriet" and believed that was how it was or should be, and how it must always continue to be. When "the little woman" stayed in the kitchen and only left the house to go grocery shopping or to the PTA, and African-Americans were - well - out of sight and out of mind unless they were shoeshine men with their sidewalk shoeshine stands, or washing your car at the car wash where you didn't have to tip them if you didn't feel like it. And Hispanics were like Bill Dana and that old "dumb Mexican" "Jose Jimenez" comedy routine of his - that is, when they weren't waiting tables and you didn't have to tip them much anyway - they should be grateful to have those jobs. Better when they were in the back washing dishes so they, too, were out of sight and out of mind and because of that you didn't have to tip them either - OR feel guilty about not doing so.

That's the America they want "back." They want to go "back." Back in time. When they really didn't have to believe that all men were created equal - and note the slogan says "all men," and no women need apply. Especially when everyone knows they just shouldn't be bothering their pretty little heads about such things anyway. And gays? Hey, nobody around HERE is gay! It's Communism!!!!

That America is long dead, thank goodness. But it won't stop these bastards from wanting to resurrect it again. And trying their damnedest to make sure it happens.

And with ALL of that, for all these years setting up VERY painfully obvious templates based on a long track record of consistently bad behavior, these dumb-asses on our side keep getting "caught off-guard." UNBELIEVABLE.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
13. I'd respond to this thread
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 03:57 PM
Mar 2012

But this post pretty much said it all. How gullible are the functionaries of this administration? And if they're not, how gullible do they think we are? "Wellllllll, how are ya gunna get Joe Lieberman's vote, huh?" You get Lieberman's vote (or Snowe's or Collins' or anyone's) by making it more expensive for them to oppose you than to go along with you. But that means getting out in front of an issue, taking nothing for granted, and repeating the same message about a brazillion times. Yeah, the policy wonks might know all about an issue, but as said above, the American people don't understand, don't get it, and don't recognize their own interests when they're told the exact opposite 24-7 by an organized opposition of rhetorical bomb-throwers who don't have anything to offer, only something to tear down.

Fuck, fuck, fuckity, fuck, and fuck.

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,406 posts)
8. Don't lose heart
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:53 PM
Mar 2012

I still feel pretty confident they won't dump it- at least not the entire law. If a George W. Bush appointee (in a lower court) can vote to uphold the law, anything is possible. Not sure if Roberts wants to have dumping the entire law as part of his "legacy".

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,406 posts)
10. NPR is a decent news source
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 03:14 PM
Mar 2012

but it is so "balanced" that sometimes it sets your head spinning and you don't really know what to think/believe afterwards

barbtries

(28,787 posts)
11. not when it comes to politics any more...
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 03:19 PM
Mar 2012

i guess it was, once upon a time. i have to slam in a CD so often these days because of the way they play up the right.

i'll give you a recent example. there was a republican primary or a caucus in Illinois recently. how did they announce Romney's win? "The voters of Illinois have spoken..."
bullshit. the REPUBLICANS, those who bothered to vote, spoke. that is a far cry from all of the voters in Illinois. but you would think if you didn't know better that the entire populace of the state wants Romney for president.

anyhow. shit like that all the time.

on the other hand, they have a lot of really great programming, and i listen to it whenever i am in my car, and fairly often i catch up with programs that are streamed on the computer.

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,406 posts)
12. I agree with you about their coverage of politics
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 03:36 PM
Mar 2012

I usually listen to daytime shows like Diane Rehm and Fresh Air, which are really good. Coverage of everything else seems to range from good to bad.

DJ13

(23,671 posts)
3. The law's backers thought that enacting a Heritage Foundation plan immunized it from criticism
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 01:35 PM
Mar 2012

..... at least from the right (the left didnt matter I guess).

How wrong they were.

This just proves that they might as well appease the left so at least one side ends up happy.

calimary

(81,220 posts)
5. And they still don't understand anything about messaging.
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:07 PM
Mar 2012

Or how to win the PR wars. After all this time. After all these hard-learned lessons. Sorry - I misspoke. The folks on our side CLEARLY haven't "learned" anything. And most distressing of all, most of the people on our side don't think it's even a priority!!!!

barbtries

(28,787 posts)
6. conservative judges
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:36 PM
Mar 2012

could really not care less about the people, the constitution, their sworn duty. they just don't and nothing anyone else says or does will make them. the only hope is Democrats for president for the foreseeable future.

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