Open Carry Texas members frighten restaurant employees – who hid in a locked freezer

[G_j]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by itsrobert (a host of the General Discussion forum).

http://freakoutnation.com/2014/05/03/open-carry-texas-members-frighten-restaurant-employees-who-hid-in-a-locked-freezer/

Open Carry Texas members frighten restaurant employees – who hid in a locked freezer

May 3, 2014
By Anomaly

Open Carry Texas demonstrators are complaining that police treated them like criminals on Thursday night simply because they scared the crap out of restaurant employees, so much so that the workers took shelter in a locked freezer. You see, Open Carry Texas members are concluding that they are the victims, even though they scared the snot out of restaurant employees, because they say it’s “their Constitutional right.”

Sgt. Ray Bush, with the Fort Worth Police Department, said Jack in the Box employees were frightened over the armed men protesting outside of the restaurant.

He said in an email to NBCDFW, “They locked themselves inside a freezer for protection out of fear the rifle-carrying men would rob them. The demonstration had no signage that would have alerted anyone to their real purpose, and to our knowledge they did not attempt to contact anyone in the Fort Worth Police Department to advise us prior to the demonstration.”

Subsequently, the Fort Worth police responded to the situation as if it was a robbery.

One demonstrator said, “I’m upset that that many officers had to arrive on the scene.”

But, if a robbery were taking place, then police not responding to the scene would have been a call for more guns, I assume.

According to the demonstrator, Edwin Haros, more than a dozen officers arrived at the restaurant where the group of rifle-carrying men planned a protest.


..more..

[chrisa]

1. The Open Carry Movement is absurd.

They also have no tact - walking enmasse into a place with guns and having a rude toter attitude is going to drive people to the other side.

[Walk away]

2. Apparently, half the country is becoming Bundy Land thanks to the NRA.

Gun toters are in for a big shock when they discover that, when faced with the reality of guns being carried openly in our towns, that a lot more than half the country will wake up to what "gun rights" really mean.

For every sane and even tempered gun owner there must be at least 2 or three that have problems with depression, anxiety, alcoholism, drug abuse, anger issues, psychosis, dementia etc.

I am forever grateful that I live in a state with strict gun laws.

[Open_n_Shut]

4. Don't you think that the violence stats would be a little different...

... if 67%-75% of the gun owning populace, which is in the millions, was as mentally unstable as you claim?

[seabeckind]

5. Nope.

No correlation.

I believe that anyone who feels the need to go out in public with a lethal weapon is mentally unstable.

(thinking about it) Isn't it another false equivalency to equate "gun owning public" to open carry? A guy with a squirrel gun in his closet ain't quite the same as a guy walking into a Jack-in-the-Box with a 9mm on his hip.

Next you'll try to equate that to some poor defenseless woman hiding in her closet from a horde of rapists.

[Open_n_Shut]

7. There are still millions of people who carry outside the home..

... on a regular basis, to include both open and concealed.

Setting aside what you "believe", the fact is that those millions go about their daily lives with near statistically insignificant numbers of incidents.

[upaloopa]

10. Enough people are shot or injured everyday

that it is time we consider the right of people to be safe in their person over the rights of gun owners. Your loss means nothing to be.

[Blue Idaho]

13. Millions?

Cite your sources please... NRA doesn't count.

[Open_n_Shut]

20. K....

From its beginnings in the 1980s, the “right-to-carry” movement has succeeded in boosting the number of licensed concealed-gun carriers from fewer than 1 million to a record 6 million today, according to estimates from gun-rights groups that are supported by msnbc.com’s research. And while hotly debated, the effect of this dramatic increase is largely unknown.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/34714389/ns/us_news-life/t/record-numbers-licensed-pack-heat/

[Blue Idaho]

36. "Near statistically insignificant numbers of incidents"

Since the article you pointed out states no statistics are kept about the number of incidents involving conceal carry permit holders why do you say its statistically insignificant?

[Open_n_Shut]

37. Basic math...

6 million permits.. not including all of the open carry.. not including all of those who carry illegally... not including those who never take the gun from home... etc.. etc..

Around about 10,000 deaths that aren't suicides every year ( minus those in the categories listed above) and the odds that I am going to get into a violent conflict with an armed CCW holder that results in my getting shot get pretty slim a.k.a. statistically insignificant.

[Blue Idaho]

47. Not statistically significant to you...

BTW when did this thread become about CCW permits, I thought it was about open carry - you now, like the "suspect" that openly carried a gun onto the campus of Paine College in Augusta Georgia today?

[Open_n_Shut]

71. It started off when "all gun owners" were described as mentally disturbed at a ratio of 3 or 4 to

It then narrowed down to those who carry guns outside the home etc.. etc...

[TampaAnimusVortex]

75. You moved the goal post...

You questioned his "Millions" reference and he provided the required link to back it up. Instead of simply admitting you were wrong on that count, you decided to ignore that and then fixate on the other half of the sentence... the "statistically insignificant" section.

Why not do the adult thing this time and just admit he proved his point that time, and you tried to change the topic.

Now, if you wish to open an additional line of discussion on that second point, I think it's fair game - but I wouldn't do it as a distraction to avoid having to admit he was right on his original point.

[Bandit]

26. And they are all assholes, each and every one of them

There is absolutely no reason to be carrying a gun unless you wish to intimidate someone, and anyone that thinks like that is an asshole. Concealed carry is something different. They are not activily trying to intimidate people. They are carrying because they are frightened people, and should NEVER try and convince anyone they live in the "Home of the Brave"

[calimary]

76. Amen. Just another way to throw one's weight around and intimidate others.

SHEESH what are we coming to?

I am damn tired of being held hostage to a bunch of paranoiacs and those who feel such a desperate need to overcompensate! I would tell them - ENOUGH with your guns. Okay. You possess them. You want them. You gotta have 'em. You claim the right. We all get it. Fine. We know all about the whole "Second Amendment Solutions" thing. Go play if you must but PLEASE DO NOT do it anywhere near me!!!!

My question is - don't I have rights too? Don't I have the right to live in as relatively peaceful a set of circumstances as gunners want for themselves? Do I have to live by THEIR definition of what that "relatively peaceful set of circumstances" is? Or am I entitled to live by MY definition of that? MY definition of that is, of course, the freedom of knowing that I won't encounter some self-appointed neighborhood vigilante or someone with a "more macho than thou" complex or an "I'm taking matters into my own hands thankyouverymuch" attitude or a "I'm exactly the kind of 'good guy with a gun' that you need in your neighborhood, lady" thing or the "nobody tells me what to do" thing? Why can't I live by MY definition? I sincerely fear for friends in pro-gun states who may, through no fault of their own, find themselves in a situation involving road rage and somebody who insists on "standing yer ground" or feeling somehow aggrieved and is armed and ready for some showdown, or perhaps had a few and things got heated and there are now people just spoiling for a fight!

I just don't feel safe knowing any Tom Dick or Mary Ann could be walking around armed wherever-the-heck they feel like walking around. I don't. That doesn't make me feel a bit safe. I don't feel protected. I feel menaced, and threatened! And my instinct would be to want to get the hell AWAY from it. I realize there are others who'd want to start arming themselves in response, and it seems to me you just up the ante toward Hell that way. Sheesh - I'd hate to live in parts of Nevada at the moment, for example, with all those cliven bundy hot-head fans with axes to grind and something or other to prove, and wild stories about some awful government conspiracy or impending take-over, and they're armed to the freakin' teeth! Just ONE bad move could cause a complete conflagration!

[Spider Jerusalem]

25. Sorry, but if you feel the need to go about your day armed?

You're paranoid and fearful and not fit to live in a civilised society.

NB that "civilisation" comes from the Latin "civis", meaning "citizen" as distinct from "milites" or "soldier"; under Roman law the carrying of arms was forbidden within the city walls. To be "civilised" is to live under the rule of law and not barbarism.

[Walk away]

38. 26.2 percent of Americans suffer from some form of mental disorder and 23,000,000 Americans are....

addicted to alcohol and or drugs.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-numbers-count-mental-disorders-in-america/index.shtml

and 50% 0f the population has an IQ between below 100.

I'm not even counting the domestic abusers, the Cliven Bundie fans and the serious racists.

Not only do these people have equal access to guns but many are paranoid enough to want lots of them.

Yes, I am surprised things aren't worse but I won't be surprised when the shooting starts in earnest.

[Open_n_Shut]

46. Any moment now.....

I'm sure...

[Gravitycollapse]

63. You really have no idea what constitutes a mental disorder, do you?

Like we're all just a bunch of totally unhinged would-be murderers.

Thanks.

[Walk away]

73. Once again...I am grateful that I live in a state with strict gun laws! nt

[Gravitycollapse]

79. I assume you're also grateful for being so contemptuously ignorant and smug regarding mental illness

[Scootaloo]

52. If you feel a visceral NEED to parade around armed, then there's something amiss in your noggin

[Luminous Animal]

68. +1

[WinkyDink]

59. More like Adam Lanza Land.

[ShadowLiberal]

74. What's most ironic is half a century ago the the tables were turned 180 here

What's most ironic about all the gun nuts demanding the right to parade guns is who was parading guns half a century ago.

The group parading guns around the most was the black panthers back then, who openly used it as an intimidation tactic, showing up at places, or near events hosted by political figures parading their guns and looking threatening.

In California people got so sick of their bullying and intimidating tactics that they passed a law to ban the practice of openly carrying guns around. The governor who supported and signed the bill was conservative saint, Ronald Reagan.

When the bill was working it's way through California's state legislature and Reagan said he'd support it, the black panthers responded by trying to intimidate Reagan into backing down by showing up with their guns at all his public events.


And most ironic, because of racism of the Bundy people today, and the fact that the black panthers are a hate group, I bet a large number of them would support restricting the rights of gun owners to publicly parade their guns if the black panthers started to do the same thing again today.

[gratuitous]

77. What were the Panthers supposed to do?

I mean, their firearms were issued by that upstanding American, J. Edgar Hoover himself.

[Open_n_Shut]

3. So pretty much the final robbery scene from Heat...

... but instead of an international bank, it takes place at Jack in the Box?

[HughBeaumont]

6. "Why is everyone fleeing? What's so wrong with what I'm doing??"

Oh I don't know, maybe it's that whole notion of "we can't tell a good guy from a bad one until the shooting begins"? Yeah, people are just funny that way. You understand.

[Nine]

8. Signage?

Is that how we're supposed to tell the "good guys with guns" from the "bad guys with guns"?

[Rex]

9. "Hi, we're insanely scared white men." "Also, we are angry at something."

"Carrying a firearm around on my back, keeps me feeling secure in my manhood."

[jwirr]

11. This will become the thing. A kind of reverse Zimmerman. He called the police every time he saw a

stranger in his neighborhood now people will be calling in on every armed person they see in fear that he is dangerous. And I can't say I blame them.

[rbixby]

27. That's actually a great idea!

The funny part will be how they'll start talking about how they're being harassed by the police like they were minorities or something.

[GeorgeGist]

12. I'm looking forward to responsible gun owners ...

organizing to combat the toxic message of the NRA.

[Paladin]

16. Don't hold your breath on that happening...... (nt)

[lame54]

14. They have to answer the question...

What were they protesting?

Shakes too runny?

Not enough fries in a large fries?

Employee uniforms nor demeaning enough?

What the hell were they protesting?

Or were they just commiting an act of terrorism?

[dilby]

15. Another silly over reaction story.

The open carry tards are idiots but people who are so scared of guns that they lock themselves in a freezer now those are idiots as well. If I saw a bunch of men carrying rifles outside a restaurant my first thought would be gun convention or gun club. The last thought I would have is robbery since criminals do not broadcast their intent for all the world to see.

[The Straight Story]

17. True, but promoting hate, bias, and fear of others is a wonderful thing we like to do

Less than one percent who own guns shoot/harm others with them. Therefore when ever you see someone (especially a black man I hear from folks on the right, on the left we use white man) who has a gun and is NOT a government employee (ie, just a citizen like most the rest of us bad folks) you should cower in fear.

Soon, we will all learn that your fellow citizen is bad, out to kill everyone, etc and you will only want the wealthy and powerful to walk around with guns. We --trust-- them. You don't hear about people getting scared when they see a cop with a gun. Why? Because even though they do shoot people they get away with it. The government doesn't even track how many officers shot people. But it does track the unworthy little people who don't work for them.

People conceal carry all day long, many do so illegally. My suggestion to some folks, just lock yourself in the freezer now or get everyone in the US to be a 'government employee' and then you can trust them again.

[dilby]

18. Reminds me of the time my girlfriend had a stroke

after seeing my neighbor who is black with a bunch of guns in his garage. She came into my house and said I needed to call the cops because my neighbor had an arsenal and looked like he was going to shoot someone. So I went outside against her protests and told her not to call the cops, I walked over to my neighbors and saw him cleaning his rifles and a pistol, he just got back from the shooting range and was cleaning his guns before putting them away. I had a quick chat with him while admiring his collection and went back and told my girlfriend, she was not satisfied with what I told her and asked me, "Why does he need so many" which I responded with, "Why do you need so many shoes." Anyways my girlfriend is not racist she has just been conditioned that all guns are bad and only people who are bad own them, it's pretty sad but that is the world we live in.

[NightWatcher]

19. cause a crazy murderer has never showed up waving a gun around before shooting a bunch of people?

[dilby]

21. Only Instance I can think of would be May 4th 1970 in Kent State Ohio.

But they were National Guard so it was normal for them to be waving their guns around before killing a bunch of people.

[Blue_Tires]

29. You should probably read more often...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ysidro_McDonald%27s_massacre

http://blogs.star-telegram.com/crime_time/2013/09/mass-shooting-averted-when-gun-misfires-at-fort-worth-fast-food-spot.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown%27s_Chicken_massacre

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2013/07/police-five-shot-wounded-at-fast-food-drive-through-in-north-dallas.html/

http://wn.com/miami_fast_food_restaurant_shooting

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/02/11/police-investigate-shooting-near-fast-food-restaurant-in-essex/

http://www.click2houston.com/news/reported-shooting-at-fast-food-restaurant-on-north-side/20741028

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/12/05/2-hurt-in-redwood-city-fast-food-restaurant-shooting/

[dilby]

30. Read plenty.

And not one of those instances started with open carry, all of them involved someone who concealed the weapon and then committed a crime. It's why you should not fear the person who open carries but instead fear the person who feels the need to hide their guns.

[Blue_Tires]

34. That came from literally 60 seconds of searching

I'm pretty sure there are a shitload of "open carry" incidents out there as well...

And you're also ignoring the fact that in most cities, fast food joints are magnets for crime, which is always in the back of employees' minds...Robberies, arguments, gang beefs, and the garden variety "Let-me-shoot-a-bunch-of-random-people-so-big-gummitt-knows-they-can't-take-my-gunz" type of nutbar...And it even happens in "good" neighborhoods as well...

So the employees were frightened or overly cautious or whatever, since it's not worth dying on the shift of a minimum wage job...

[Logical]

72. What? Are you serious? nt

[IdaBriggs]

22. If I saw a bunch of people carrying hunting rifles where the only prey is People --

my kids and I would be out of there so fast it would make your head spin.

I guess I missed all the reports of "deer and antelope" roaming around Jack-in-the-Box.

Do you *NOT* watch movies? Have you seen "Die Hard"? Or any other television show (including the news) where armed lunatics start killing people?

The "open carry" people are nut-jobs, and being around that type of "accident waiting to happen" (to be charitable) is crazy.



Oh, and irresponsible parenting. See "NJ man shoots 11-year old..." http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024911726

[dilby]

23. I also saw a movie where aliens invaded the earth and looked just like you and me.

There is Hollywood and then there is reality, you should not use Hollywood as the basis of your reality.

[IdaBriggs]

48. Sigh. The "Die Hard" comment was supposed to be sort of funny.

Armed men shooting people happens in real life; people with guns walk into stores, restaurants, schools, movie theaters, shopping malls, etc. AND SHOOT PEOPLE. Sometimes they do it for money, sometimes they do it for politics, and sometimes they do it because they have serious mental problems.

Unfortunately, this is reality in modern America - responsible gun owners don't parade around playing with weapons at a Jack in the Box. Criminals, crazies and terrorists, yes. Trustworthy people, NO.

[sarisataka]

31. Do you *NOT* watch movies?

I watch plenty...

and never mistake them for reality

[IdaBriggs]

49. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

See my answer to previous poster re: the power of positive thinking protecting you from bullets.

[LanternWaste]

32. I used to call people concerned with their safety 'idiots' too.

I used to call people concerned with their safety 'idiots' too. Then I tried to stop being one myself...

[Zorra]

24. When mass murderer J.T. Ready and his nazi crew showed up at Occupy Phoenix one day,

Last edited Mon May 5, 2014, 02:16 PM - Edit history (1)

a bunch of us left until they went away. I was totally afraid that that these wacko gun nuts were going to massacre the entire assembly. They were clearly really scary, deranged people.

JT READY BRINGS HIS NAZIS TO OCCUPY PHOENIX
http://onepeoplesproject.com/index.php/news/67-occupy-together-news/879-jt-ready-brings-his-nazis-to-occupy-phoenix

JT Ready's Last Rant: Before The Massacre, The Neo-Nazi Border Vigilante Named Names
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/jt-ready-s-last-rant-before-the-massacre-the-neo-nazi-border-vigilante-named-names

[PeteSelman]

78. They were actually there to defend Occupy.

Which is pretty strange considering they're right wing as Jaromir Jagr. But they had their guns pointed outward and were there to defend free speech.

If you watch the video that's what they say and do.

[Shandris]

28. I think a more germane question is, "Why are so many people terrified at the mere sight of a gun"?

I'm neither a gun defender nor a gun controller; my dad always owned a single small rifle, and kept it unloaded and in his closet. That's the sum total of my experience with guns. Well...other than with Law Enforcement with guns, and a few wannabe gangbangers I knew in my younger days. So I've had roughly half and half 'legal' and 'illegal/criminal' gun experiences in the course of my life and I can understand both sides of the debate. If I had to formulate a stance on the spot, I'd be in favor of standard background/no mental illness (depression and other short-term ones not included)/no violent or domestic felonies/must pass competency test.

But when I see a gun, I don't think the person is going to start shooting everyone. Why is that? I don't know. Maybe them thinking that, it's a big city thing (as a lot of things seem to be). The whole Kitty Genovese factor, you know? But running and hiding in a locked fridge because people came in carrying slung rifles? That strikes me as indicative of something very different than mere rational concern.

[Paladin]

33. Open carrying of firearms by civilians is public intimidation, pure and simple.

Your father kept his gun unloaded and in a closet. I do the same with my firearms.

By the way: a Gun Enthusiast here on DU once posted that Kitty Genovese was primarily responsible for her own death, because she wasn't armed and ready for that animal who attacked and killed her. There's way too much of that twisted attitude in the gun rights movement; that's why I admire and emulate your dad's handling of that rifle of his.

[Shandris]

35. Wow, that story is grotesque! I had no idea that was ever posted or I wouldn't have even...

...chose her as an example; it was only to show what I meant about how people in 'big cities' can act (as interpreted by us mostly small-town people). I regret it now. That's just sick.

I can see an argument being made that open carry could be intimidation. I'm not sure I would be intimidated by it, but that's because by definition just about everything -should- intimidate me so little actually does...or does so noticeably, at least. I mean, deep down I'd be very watchful of the person, just like I am when I step outside my door ever or even open my door at nighttime (I live in a bad area relative to the midwest). So I guess on that level yah, it'd be intimidating.

It makes me wonder how I'd react. I can't see myself running to hide somewhere from it, but I suppose you never know until you're in that situation either. But yah, my dad was always very smart about his one gun. He didn't even keep the...shells? Bullets? Whatever you call them, he didn't keep them with the thing either. I don't know where he -did- keep them, just that they weren't with the gun. And in all my life, I can't remember him ever loading it, although I do remember him taking it apart one time when I came home earlier than he expected me.

[Jenoch]

41. Do you have trigger locks or cable locks on your guns?

If not, you could always dismantle them and store the parts separately.

[Paladin]

42. And you could head back to Gun Control/RKBA, where comments like that are appreciated. (nt)

[Jenoch]

44. Are you kidding me?

Are you actually disagreeing with me that it is important to store guns safely, as in locked up?

I understand the fictional Paladin probably did not lock his gun in safe storage, but I think it's the right thing to do.

http://m.

[Paladin]

51. You're a DU Gun Enthusiast.

As such, you are not entitled to the details of how my firearms are stored.

[Jenoch]

55. I guess I should not have phrased that as a question, it was more of a suggestion to safely store

your guns. You have already told us how you store your guns, in a closet.

You say 'Gun Enthusiast' as if it is a pejorative when it is not necessarily so.

[Paladin]

60. You're not fooling anybody. And this conversation is over. (nt)

[Jenoch]

65. I was not attempting to fool anyone. It seems you were however.

[Shandris]

61. I don't have any guns at all.

Nor do I want any. We were just discussing how my father keeps his gun. I'm not sure if he has trigger locks or anything; I haven't even seen the thing in years at this point. I know in the past it didn't, but that's all I know.

Edit: Gah, I see I missed the chain and flow of conversation. Sorry about that!

[Major Nikon]

45. It's intimidating whether it's open or concealed as far as I'm concerned

Guns don't make people safer. They make people less safe, and that's just for the people who own them. Everyone is subject to their emotions overriding the rational side of their brain and when your problem solver is a hammer, all problems look like nails. The whole idea that we just need more gun nuts to keep us safe from the gun nuts is paranoid delusional dipshittery.

[Hoyt]

53. Exactly. I like what Chris Matthews says, "guns embolden people to do things they normally wouldn't"

Zimmerman is a good example. That worthless gun emboldened police wannabe would have sat in his car and played with himself, rather than stalking and murdering Trayvon Martin, if he had not had a gun. The ignorant Bundy ranch armed militia types would have done the same.

[IdaBriggs]

50. Pick a place where people haven't been massacred by crazy people.

Movie theaters? Nope. McDonalds? Nope? Elementary school? Nope. Etc.

When people see guns where guns don't belong, one has to rely in the psychic ability to identify whether the person carrying is going to decide to start shooting. Is he pissed off at a co-worker? Irked at his abused spouse? Planning on committing a crime? Feeling depressed/wanting to commit suicide by cop? Or just a guy who feels a need to tote a deadly weapon in a place where brandishing it can possible be intimidating?

Rot these losers.

[Skittles]

58. maybe because of shit like this?

http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/news/national/paine-college-locked-down-due-active-shooter/nfpmP/

[Shandris]

67. Ugh. I hadn't heard of that one.

There does always seems to be one somewhere, doesn't there? Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

It's kind of sad that we can't tell the difference, really. As in, more of a 'Wouldn't it be nice if you could tell automagically'-type thing. Not that such a thing is ever possible, of course. Not saying people should have been psychic or something silly like that.

[Jenoch]

39. I am completely opposed to open carry.

However, since the men in the front of the restaurant did not seem to be threatening the people inside of the restaurant, I would have gone outside and asked them to please take their protest elsewhere, because they were intimidating some of the employees and customers.

[Crunchy Frog]

40. Snort!

[JI7]

43. guns make them feel like tough "manly men"

[Skittles]

57. correct, and sane people see them for what they are: COWARDS

[HockeyMom]

54. I would certainly leave their presence

if I saw them carrying a gun next to me. In fact, that is precisely why I would prefer open carry to concealed. I don't want to be around you. Your right. MY right to not associate with you. All actions have reactions. Not everybody loves a gunner.

[Skittles]

56. cannot imagine why people would be afraid of armed, paranoid assholes

[G_j]

69. most succinct observation

[Maedhros]

62. To these people, a gun is a fetish.

Not the "sexual kink" type of fetish, but in the anthropological sense - an object imbued with spiritual power. In this case, the spiritual power is a combination of freedom, sense of well-being and personal identity. By gathering in groups to show off their fetishes they corroborate each others' belief in the power of the gun. The more they are attacked for their fetishism the closer they hew to one another, similar to groups like the Westboro Baptist Church: the more they are criticized for their extremism, the more they are convinced in its validity.

[Make7]

64. Jack In The Box should stop taking away people's 2nd Amendment rights. ( n/t )

[hollowdweller]

66. I would prefer concealed carry

I am a gun owner and don't have a concealed carry permit and don't carry in the open because to be honest I feel safe.

But when I see people carrying guns openly it makes me nervous. Also I think because that person is in a store or some other public place displaying their fire power I think it sort of ruins the atmosphere. It lends a seriousness to it, like this supermarket is a dangerous place because somebody has to packheat. I just don't like it.

I don't think people carrying guns open or closed in the short run does anything one way or the other far as gun deaths or safety. These people are just insecure and I think carrying open makes people nervous.

Now the open carry people would say that's the idea, that a person carrying a gun to the store or in public should be normal.

I don't want it to be normal. If I see some dude toting an pistol or rifle in public I want to be able to know they are a mass shooter and get the hell out. From a tactical perspective not being able to know who is a bad guy with a gun and a good guy is life saving at times, and open carry makes it harder.

Now the open carry people would say you are safer with the open carry guys because IF one guy is a mass shooter then they can take him out. I don't buy it. IMO if there is a mass shooter and a bunch of people are carrying guns around him that must means bullets are going to be flying from more than one direction and it will be harder to find a safe place.

So I guess what I'm saying is although I don't buy into a lot of the anti gun stuff here, I think open carry ruins the vibe of a place and I don't feel it makes me either more or less safe, just makes some paranoid person feel safer or gives some guy who wants to be in your face his jollies.

[Initech]

70. Why isn't our media painting this group as domestic terrorists?

[itsrobert]

80. GD Host here: Sorry, but I am going to have to lock this thread

Review of he SOP for GD:


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Status of "big news" exceptions:

There are currently no special exceptions.

Guns and Gun Control have been a touchy subject here on DU. And for that reason, the admins have created several forums in Justice and Public Safety for threads such as this. Please feel free to post it there.

Thanks for your understanding in advance.

Justice & Public Safety forums here..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1002&pid=4905249#