Who here on DU have a photovoltaic solar system on their roof ...

[oldhippie]

... (or on ground mounts on their property) that provides a goodly portion of their electricity needs? Let's just say a 3kW system or larger.

With all the talk about solar energy becoming much cheaper, the latest White House report on climate change, and Neil deGrasse Tyson's series, this is becoming a bigger and bigger topic. Many people advocate moving to solar and other renewable technologies and away from fossil fuels as soon as possible, regardless of the cost (somebody else will pay for it.)

So who here as actually walked the talk, and has a PV system on their roof and displacing fossil fuels? If you wish to provide data, I would be curious as to the size in kW, the cost, how much of your electricity needs it displaces, and how you feel about it generally. Is it pretty carefree or are there maintenance issues?

I hope many here other than myself are curious about this. I have been a solar PV advocate for many decades and am an independent PV consultant. When I talk to various individuals and groups in person I get very varied reactions to the idea of rooftop solar. I am curious as to how much the DU community support "going green" by actually doing it in a significant way.

Thanks in advance.

[badtoworse]

1. I looked at it, but I would have had to cut down some shade trees

For me, that was a deal breaker. I'm an energy professional, and I will say that it is definitely worth looking into - the cost has come down quite a lot.

[oldhippie]

17. I have that same problem ......

My current house would have had a 5 kW PV system on the south facing roof many years ago - if it wasn't for the three large oak trees that shade that roof from the Texas summer sun. I really want to put a PV system up there, but I can't bring myself to cut down those mature trees. I have also looked at ground mounting an array on poles, but there is no place on my moderately wooded one acre that can get enough sun to make it worthwhile. So I am stuck with a small, sub-optimal array on an outbuilding that only powers my shop.

I'm trying to get some momentum going in my 'hood for a community solar project, but I'm not finding much interest. I'm actually getting more opposition than support. That's why I am getting so frustrated with the "we have to use renewable energy" voices, but I can't find many people that will actually "do" it. Everybody wants someone else to do it.

Sorry, I got on another of my rants.

[Lonusca]

2. Hi Hippie

We have panels on our roof. They were installed when we purchased the home a little over a year ago.

We have a PPA system - it is "always on" sending power back to the grid.

In return for that, we get 16,000 kWh per year at a fixed rate. The cancellation clause on the 20 yr PPA lease was unacceptable during negotiations for the house - way too high of a liability to take on. We reached an agreement where previous owner would prepay 50% of his remaining obligations, therefore cutting the cancellation fees and the fixed rate we pay by 50% for the length of the contract.

We are still connected to a utility (PGE) for our overage. We run a yearly balance and then true up at the end of the year. We were running under allotment all year - until Christmas season. We ended up paying PGE about $100 for the year for overage. So - it almost covered our needs.

Zero maintenance issue since we have been here. However I assume our system is much easier than one where batteries are onsite.

[oldhippie]

21. Thanks for your info

It seems you are one of a very small number of folks here that actually have a working system.

I hope you continue to have good experiences with your system.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

3. I want to, but can't afford it yet.

still unemployed.

Love to hear from people who have gotten there, and what recommendations they might have.

[PasadenaTrudy]

4. Could this work

on a residential/commercial bldg, where we all have separate meters?

[MADem]

5. I am not allowed to have one of those things...! The basstids!

My abode was placed on the National Register of Historic Places a few decades back. It used to be just an old family home, now we can't swap out a window without getting "approval." It's a real eye-roller at times, takes forever to do the most simple thing. Putting stuff on the roof is a no-go.

[newfie11]

6. Tell those who decide to take a look at Germany

They have solar panels on 400 year old stone homes.

[MADem]

8. The NRHP doesn't allow any visible modifications.

Even swapping out a shitty window that lets the freezing cold in for one that keeps the heat and cold out is an exercise fraught with drama and historical society approvals. It's just not negotiable. I don't have enough yard to put one in the back, not that there's enough sun out there anyway when there are leaves on the trees.

I'm hoping that one day they come up with a glass that can be put in windows and collects solar energy--we put a man on the moon etc, etc. why not that? Or shutters that look "normal" but are covert solar collectors.

I know they've done that to some extent with roofing -- they've made subtle roofing material that does the job--but they don't have stuff that looks like century old slate. Oh well!

That said, I am cheap as hell with electricity. My one vice is the television, but I was an early adapter (Europe a couple of decades ago) to the CFL twisty bulbs, and we've since moved on to the LEDs. I do have a solar LED floodlight in the back, which comes on when the dog(s) go out. Makes the place look a bit like Stalag 17 but it lights the place up nicely!

[itsrobert]

26. You think the White House would be an historical home

and they are always doing modifications there.

[MADem]

29. They have a national security imperative.

They also serve as an example to the nation, thus, they'll do things that are "in the public good."

The WH, too, is a work in progress. The East Wing, the West Wing, the new Press Center, the Visitor's Center--they keep adding on to the thing.

[Orrex]

7. Newbie question here, but...

Is there a user-friendly online tool for helping to calculate likely costs of PV installation versus savings on electric bills?

When we replaced our windows years ago, the salesman particularly highlighted the savings on our heating/cooling costs, but in practice we found the savings to be around $10 per month, tops, and only during the hottest/coldest months.

So... $40 per year would pay off $5000 in just 125 short years.


I'd love to cut back on non-renewables, but I see that it will be feasible for the foreseeable future.

[nationalize the fed]

11. Here's 2 incredible sources of knowledge

http://www.reddit.com/r/solar/

http://www.reddit.com/r/RenewableEnergy

[Atman]

9. Check out this site...

Wholesalesolar.com

We're looking for our little place in the woods. We've had a deal with a neighbor for years where we tap into his existing service -- we use very little electricity, and pretty much pay his entire electric bill, but it's so cheap it is worth it. Anyway, dude is getting senile, he moved in a fancy trailer which is on the other side of the property, now he wants us off his electric. No reason, just says "it's time." Kind of crazy, because he's been out of work for almost a year and we're paying his electric bill. So, the electric company wants about $3000 to tie us in to a pole with our own meter. Wholesalesolar.com lists off-the-grid options for cabins starting at less than half that. On-the-grid (selling back excess to electric company) are available too, as our whole-house options. I can't vouch for them, never done any business with them, but there is a lot of useful info on the site.

[politicat]

10. Not yet, but planning.

Our neighborhood can't have them, but one of the reasons we're looking to move is to have panels. (Also, a garage because I am tired of ice scraping and bird poo.) Most of the houses in the neighboring development have them and most of those houses are in my precinct. I've heard great things -- annual electricity bills in the double digits, no maintenance, Xcel behaving better than expected.

[csziggy]

12. When we built we investigated PV solar but built tighter instead

In 2007 when we were building, the estimate was $30,000 for a system. We spent less than that and made the house tighter and better insulated which pays off now and into the future. Our utilities are less than they were in our old house which was 2/3 the size.

We did put in a solar water heating system which works great.

Eventually I do want a PV system, but it's not in the budget anytime soon.

[REPUguy]

13. We have it...

but we're waiting for SCE to inspect it and make their final adjustments. It passed the city inspection last week and SCE has 21 days to do their thing. It is a 13.5 kW system with 54 panels so I expect it to zero out my electric bill. I work at home so I use a lot of power in my shop. I had been thinking about going solar for a long time but the last straw for me was a $760 electric bill at the end of last summer. Our bill averages about $500/month.

Since it isn't fired up yet I can't speak to maintenance issues but that is covered by the company installing the system. I'm pretty sure I'll be happy with it once it gets going.

I'm actually buying my lease so the end cost to me will be $30.000 which was to be payed up front but so far they haven't asked for that money yet. You sign over the $17.500 tax credit to them and that gets the price down. They are a reputable company and have several installations going on in my area. I keep asking about when they want to be paid but they said that due to several delays they will ask for the money at the end instead. It seems that the city and SCE are slow walking the process. The company sent me a $500 credit card for my patience in all this.

If you plan on having it done just be prepared for at least 6 months before it finally gets fired up, at least in my area.

I don't know if I'm allowed to mention the name of the company here but the owner is a former Greenpeace activist and they're based in Oakland Ca....hint hint. So far they are great people to deal with.

[oldhippie]

22. Wow! That's a pretty good sized system ...

Looks like you have quite a bit invested in it. I hope the bureaucracy moves soon and you get it commissioned and fired up and see how it performs. Once you get some experience with it I hope you will share it with us.

Thanks for the response. You are one of very few here with a real system.

[hunter]

14. A few of our neighbors have installed them.

But we've got no money and no credit rating. (Medical bills we haven't paid and kids in college. Woohoo!)

The problem is when we cut our electric use to match the amount of solar electricity we might afford it doesn't seem worthwhile to even climb up on the roof.

My wife and I have managed to avoid commuting since the mid 'eighties, so maybe that makes up for it, but possibly not. From the time I got my driver's license until, as a commuter in Los Angeles, I got sick of cars, I drove all over the place. Gasoline cost nothing then in comparison to my pay. I could fill the tank of my little car with an hour or two of my wages.

So far as electricity goes I'm rather like my great grandma. She had two forty watt light bulbs and an AM radio in her house. Just one electrical outlet too, for the radio. Actually my great grandma didn't want electricity when the Rural Electrification guys came by, but her husband had a radio habit, just like I have a computer habit.

I'd use even less electricity than my great grandparents did because it would just be two LED lamps and a laptop, and not one of those high energy laptops with a fan either. I'm not a gamer, and I don't care about video.

My wife would rather not live that way, however. She likes her refrigerator, washing machine, dryer, and other gadgets.

We live in a mild climate where air conditioning is unnecessary and heating is somewhat optional too, in the sense that it never gets cold enough for the pipes to freeze.

Personally I don't think gadgets are going to solve any of our problems. The BIG problem, the elephant in the room, is overpopulation and the automobile/consumer/money culture. What we currently call "economic productivity" isn't productivity at all, it is something corrosive to the human spirit and it is destroying the natural environment.

[oldhippie]

18. I used to live where you do , and .....

... I never really realized how great it was not to have to worry about (and pay for) A/C and even much heat in the winter. I now pay more for two month's worth of air conditioning here in Texas than I used to pay PG&E all year. God, how I miss that climate.

[hunter]

20. My parents moved to a place where electric or gas utilities don't matter day-to-day.

Their water falls on their roof, for free. They buy food at the farmer's market. If the power goes out, as it does sometimes, no big deal. Meat for dinner? Spam in a can keeps.

My wife's parents live in a similar place, but one that gets too damned hot in the summer. Their neighbor has a huge solar capacity and a diesel generator too. He loves that kind of stuff and he has money. So he's often powering his own water well and air conditioning in addition to those of a few neighbors.

Whenever the utility fails, then it's time for the long orange extension cords, mostly after bad winter storms. All the neighbors look out for one another.

My parents, and my wife's parents, are the food growing sort whenever they are not too busy being biologists and medical people. Me too.

[broiles]

15. We have an array that provides about half of our needs.

it's an all electric large house. We also have it well insulated and have Pella windows. We drive a hybrid. So we are trying to walk the walk.

[oldhippie]

24. Do you know its size in kW?

And how much does it save you per month, roughly? Have you had any issues with the array, good or bad? I'm mostly looking to see how you feel about having it.

Thanks for the info.

[broiles]

25. It produces 16K kilowatt hours per year.

I love it. We have tried many things to reduce our consumption of electricity and this has been the best. Since we are an all-electric house, winter is our big usage time. To help with heat we got pellet stoves which are excellent; ceiling fans allow us to keep the thermostat at 80 in the summer.

We got the solar array on a program from OnStar the service company. Total cost was about $22,000 but we paid only half that on this program. Our cost will be recovered in about 5 or 6 years, but this was about more than saving money.

[oldhippie]

31. Sounds like about a 10kW array, nice ....

I'm really glad you are happy with it.

Just curious, but do any of your neighbors have similar systems? Do they ever ask questions about yours? I'm just trying to get a feel for level of interest in your community.

[broiles]

32. Neighbors? No. But friends? Yes.

I'm in Texas, little interest.

[oldhippie]

35. Where abouts?

I'm near Fort Hood, north of Austin. Who was your normal energy provider, and is Oncor your transport utility?

[broiles]

37. TXU provider, Oncor transport.

I'm in Fort Worth. Air Wind and Solar of Stephenville installed the array and arranged for the Oncor discounts or rebates. We didn't have a roof suitable for the panels, so they built a structure over a boat dock, in the lake (kinda neat).

[panader0]

16. I too look forward to setting up a system

Here in the Southwest, we have plenty of sun. I had heard about the "carbon footprint" of making solar panels.
Without getting into the kWh figures, it was estimated in 2009 that it would take four years before the carbon footprint was offset
by the clean power produced by the panel. Since then, I'm sure that number has dropped, perhaps some knowledgeable DUer can educate me. But even at four years, it's a win in the long run.

[Ruby the Liberal]

19. As best I can tell

it would require an 11KW system to offset 1,400 avg kWh per month here - and that is with ~4.2 sun hours/day. I am not hooked up to any gas options, 100% electric with a heat pump that had NO business being installed this far north. So, WAY too cost prohibitive (unless I calculated wrong - I welcome correction on that).

I looked into the lease options but a 20 year commitment is rather daunting. Who knows where technology may have us in 5 years, much less 20. You look at things like Bloom Box and what people like Elon Musk have done with Solar City and Tesla, and it just may pay to wait a bit longer.

[MrMickeysMom]

23. My sister and BIL have...

I've described it here on DU under other forum somewhere. They are in FL, and in that state, the initial promises made for tax assistance through the state was not carried forth when Jeb Bush promised it.

Regardless, they have P-V cells on the roof and in weather that is killing their neighbor's monthly electric budget, they pay well under 100 bucks. That's in FL.

Big props to my sister cause they'll never get back in their lifetime what they chose in invest into because THEY WALK THE WALK. I live in PA and we are undergoing increases in energy efficiency within our home renovation as I write this.

[Sunlei]

27. I'm interested too. I got the gas company generator that powers a homes electric if the power goes.

Think in a couple of years I will save, save, save to get next years new hydrogen powered car (due for release next year). Because the cars electric engine/system will have an outlet to power an entire home.

[oldhippie]

33. Do you happen to know the kW power rating .....

.... of the fuel cell in the car? And also the total kWHrs capacity of the fuel cell with a full fuel tank? Those would be interesting numbers to know when thinking about it powering a house.

[Sunlei]

40. no, haven't number crunched as the car hasn't been released yet.

The report mentioned the car will be able to "electric power an entire home for a week" from one hydro. 'charge'.

[cbayer]

28. I've got one on my boat and haven't used any accessory power (generator) in about 6 months.

I also have a small wind generator, though I am not yet convinced that it does as much as I would like.

There are very few maintenance issues - keep the panels clean and unshaded, keep the batteries wet.

I am able to run refrigeration but I can not use anything that requires a heating element (crockpot, iron, water heater, etc).

We have 4 panels - all Kyocera, 2 130's and 2 135's. We have 10 6 volt batteries for the house and an inverter, which we try to use as little as possible.

I am fortunate to live in a climate that provides a lot of sun and a fair amount of wind.

I am very, very happy with the system.

[oldhippie]

36. That is a great application for a PV system

I have a couple of friends with sailboats down in Corpus Christi with similar setups.

I take it your boat is on salt water? Do you have any particular issues with salt air corrosion? My friends complain about having to clean battery terminals too often. I am trying to get them to use a spray on sealer rather than Vaseline.

[cbayer]

38. We have not had any issues with corrosion, but try to keep things relatively clean.

Our batteries are below the floor and pretty well insulated from any kind of salt water.

Most cruisers that we meet have some kind of system running. Depending on their demands, they may or may not live exclusively off their panels and wind generators.

[Sunlei]

41. I like the idea of the boat systems wind/solar as they are portable. My buddie in the outback uses

small, very portable solar panels to power everything. He even has a panel on his truck and pumps water into a large tank and keeps a 'in truck' freezer powered off that one panel.

Here's his youtube shows his truck pump and cooler system & solar panel on his truck.

his 'solar' truck is at one minute in if you don't want to watch him make his tea!

[cbayer]

42. I am unable to watch videos at this time, but will try to at another.

I have seen a fair number of solar water heaters recently that intrigue me. They are kind of bulky for a boat, but I'm going to keep looking at them.

Good for your friend, btw.

[mikemcl350]

30. no electic bill since 9/2010

my system was up and running in sept of 2010 and I have not had a bill since, other than the minimum 15$ services fee which I would be paying anyway. i'm saving just about 200 a month and every year I've received a rebate check for about 100 to 150$ for making more than I used.
the rebates are getting smaller for new systems but the pricing in coming down. mine will be paid off soon as every month 200$ more is staying in my pocket.
to date I've generated almost 26,000 KWH, and saved 41,000 lbs of co2 emissions. im loving it!

mike

long island NY

[oldhippie]

34. That sounds really good, a success story .....

.... that we should hear a lot more of.

I'm happy more and more DUers are speaking up and have done this.

[NuclearDem]

39. I've looked into it, but right now it's a little too costly.

Once the price goes down and the tech is more refined, I'll give it more serious consideration.

For now, we're just replacing our old incandescent bulbs with LEDs as they burn out to cut costs.