First... Interesting That Almost Nobody Here Discussed Last Night's 'Frontline'...

[WillyT]

Second... The First Minute Or Two Shatters the Greenwald Motivation Hate.

We have ALWAYS talked about 'Frontline'.

Watch Here:

Link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/

[grasswire]

1. heh

Surprise, surprise! (Gomer Pyle style)

Thanks for the link, Willy. I didn't get a chance to watch it last night. But I did see the earlier interview with Keith Alexander by Judy Woodruff. Slick.

[Warpy]

2. Probably afraid of getting slammed by 'company men'

when they say what a hero Snowden is.

He is, you know.

The only thing that surprised me was that it was all Cheney and Addington who removed all the safeguards and turned it into a complete fishing expedition against all American citizens. Stupid was genuinely surprised when somebody finally informed him what the two traitors were up to.

Snowden has told us what is going on, how long it's been going on, how it got started, and how dangerous it is to all of us.

I'm just wondering what they did to Obama to make him go along with this treason. He's a constitutional law professor who is well aware of the danger of having such a program.

[aggiesal]

7. Probably because Cheney has the goods on everyone ...

in congress.
That I believe is why Kerry didn't fight for Ohio in 2004.
Pelosi took impeachment off the table, and now Obama.

[JohnnyRingo]

9. Nancy Pelosi took impeachment off the table because...

...when a Republican is driving his entire party off the cliff, you don't jump in and grab the wheel. The payoff over the next two election cycles, in 2008 and 2010, are testimony to the strategy. Few things happen by accident in politics, and this is straight out of the DNC playbook.

It certainly wasn't in the best interests of the country to step aside and allow Bush & Cheney to soil their republican brand by trashing the economy, but it won elections for years yet to come.

[aggiesal]

11. Instead of grabbing the wheel ...

she could have gotten behind the car and given it one good shove, and
have a front row watching the car tumble down the cliff.

[RandiFan1290]

16. Dems lost 2010. nt

[Art_from_Ark]

17. Yeah, 2010 was a big-time disaster

Dems gave up control of the House after losing 63 seats.

[JohnnyRingo]

18. You're right... I was thinking of '06 and '08

That was the year Ms Pelosi and Dems won control, then Obama respectively won the WH.

Two big election cycles caused by the bumbling of the previous administration that were broken by the rise of the Tea Party in 2010 after a black man took the oath of office, but I believe that political pendulum is swinging back in our favor now.

I credit the horrible job Bushco did, and the lasting proof that supply side economics is bunk. Perhaps electing Obama can be seen as a minor setback for the Democratic Party while we underestimated the underlying racism in the country. I know I did. I had friends I never suspected come out of the Klan Kloset, but they've quieted down since 2012, and I believe we can win them back in 2016.

Thanx for pointing out my error.

[grasswire]

10. Cheney, Addison and Gonzales

Ashcroft stood tall in his moment.

There was no mention of Yoo, or Feith.

[Warpy]

21. I remember having Ashcroft shoot up above them in my estimation

As ill as he was (and that was very, very ill), he still told them to go pound sand.

Even bad men can turn out to be heroes from time to time.

[struggle4progress]

14. Empty Suit is selected to be an Empty Suit

In Reagan's case, the game was "Put nice-avuncular-figure up front and let him spout meaningless platitudes while we do the dirty work somewhere else behind the scenes"

In W's case, the game was "Put ordinary-guy-you'd-like-to-drink-beer-with up front and let him spout meaningless platitudes while we do the dirty work somewhere else behind the scenes"

Pretty much the same game

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Longish thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024950785

[WillyT]

4. Thank You... Searched... But Did Not Find...

[bananas]

5. Thanks. nt

[lunasun]

6. Well maybe too much for some to revisit- watching all those faces that make me sick upon sight again

was a lot to endure ... let alone the content .......

[grasswire]

8. that was terrific

I have new heroes, including Tam and Roark.

[neverforget]

12. Missed it because I had to work

will watch it online though

[struggle4progress]

13. There were at least three threads devoted to it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024949268
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024950785
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024951153

Part I was excellent; we await Part II

Those who missed it may be able to view it online from their local PBS website and should be encouraged to do so

[ronnie624]

19. The topic is suddenly not very contentious.

To this point, the defenders of the national security/surveillance state are noticeably absent.

[struggle4progress]

20. I don't remember ever seeing many "defenders of the national security/surveillance state" here

I've seen plenty of people who dislike Greenwald and/or Snowden for various reasons -- and since there is a certain sloppy style that coverts support for Greenwald and/or Snowden into a surrogate for other issues, I've also seen plenty of groundless accusations about "apologists" here

The Frontline episode has the real advantage of making a careful attempt at accuracy

[ronnie624]

22. Snowden/Greenwald are the surrogates, in my opinion,

attacked by those who fear the insecurity that a departure from the status quo would bring. They are really attacking anyone who would affect the deep, meaningful reform to our system that is needed. That sort of change offers many uncertainties, I'm sure. Snowden/Greenwald's attackers support the status quo, therefore, by default, in my opinion, they support the national security/surveillance state, which is very clearly a fact of life. I don't need a surrogate, because I know exactly what I want for our civilization, and I believe Snowden and Greenwald have helped to start us down the long road to reforming our government, with their revelations. There would be no Frontline episode on the NSA, without them.

The piece was indeed informative. I anxiously await the second part.

[struggle4progress]

23. Frontline has done stories on such matters, before Snowden, such as

2007 Spying on the Homefront
2007 Cheney’s Law
2011 Top Secret America

[ronnie624]

25. Snowden and Greenwald have ignited a prominent global debate on the issue.

Denial of that fact seems highly illogical.

[tridim]

26. The fallacy being there are no "defenders of the surveillance state" that BushCo set up.

There are certainly none on DU.

BushCo, Cheney and a few dirt-stupid Republican voters are the only people defending The Program.

What the hell are you talking about?

[ronnie624]

29. The national security state is a constant.

It exists independent of parties and personalities. It functions in service to power and wealth, through the corruption of our legislative and policy making establishments. It is a result of the corruption of both parties.

Your posts indicate a high degree of naivete. Read some Chomsky. He will set you strait on these issues.

[cantbeserious]

15. Devastating For Both Bush And Obama

eom

[TorchTheWitch]

24. because no one wanted to admit that Obama is just as in on it

What little discussion there was was all about how the various Bush folks did this hideous thing and that they should be in jail. Then the show got as far as Obama & Co. continuing the beast, and everyone clammed up and went whistling on their way.

[KoKo]

27. Will be interesting to see what "Part 2" reveals next week.

"Part 1" mostly took us through the Bush years with Obama at the end...but, it was clear that he just "carried on"....and Clapper is still there even after lying to congress. So...it is what it is with him.

I think those of us who watched the 2 hours that night were just so depressed at reliving what we already knew and realizing that nothing has changed and in fact grown worse. I wished that Frontline had split it up because 2 hours was too much in one sitting. I think those who didn't know about what had gone on would probably tune out. I almost wished for "commercial breaks" to ease the tension.

[TorchTheWitch]

28. I wouldn't have cared if it was four hours

It was riveting. Horrifying yet riveting.