Secretary Shinseki MUST GO!!!!

[AnalystInParadise]

I don't care who did what earlier, Secretary Shinseki must go. I am a veteran and I can think of no greater betrayal of all veterans sacrifice than what is going on in the VA now. This is a nightmare and someone in the government must pay. PBO needs to demand Secretary Shinseki resign immediately. I agree with Congressman David Scott and John Barrow of Georgia......It is time Mr President, please ask for this embarrassment to resign.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/house-races/206790-first-democrat-calls-for-shinsekis-resignation

[Xipe Totec]

1. Are you quite sure your rage is properly focused?

And that this is the best step we can take to solve the problem?

[AnalystInParadise]

3. Secretary Shinseki

is culpable, he is the head of the Department. We can talk funding issues all day long, but at the end of the day, the issues with wait times come back on him. Especially after this was already a known issue in 2010.

[MohRokTah]

13. No, they don't. eom

[Xipe Totec]

33. Singlehandedly? I think there were a lot of actors

Seems like you just want to frag the lieutenant.

[AnalystInParadise]

36. Shinseki is a start

Anyone who knew anything and was silent deserves to be fired. Criminal investigations should also likely commence. If they find no criminal wrong doing, I can abide that. But dozens of people are dead at the hands of mismanagement, and the head of the department is the head of the department.

Jon Stewart seems to also be upset.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/20/jon-stewart-explodes-in-epic-rant-on-va-scandal-fix-this-fcking-thing/

[Xipe Totec]

43. Prosecution is the job of the Justice Dept.

Take it up with Eric Holder.

[AnalystInParadise]

49. Gladly

I expect more Congress members to start asking questions. This has gone on for far too long and someone in the VA must pay.

[Xipe Totec]

83. I look forward to it.

Anybody who cooked the waiting lists, I want them prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[ProSense]

2. The President should

tell them he'll give it some thought after the House and Senate pass Bernie Sander's veterans bill.

With just 41 votes, Republican senators block veterans benefits bill

by Jed Lewison

AP reports on the GOP's successful filibuster of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders' veterans benefits bill:

Senate Republicans have blocked a Democratic bill that would enrich health, education and job-training programs for the nation's 22 million veterans.

And why did Republicans—who "won" the vote because "only" 56 senators voted in favor of moving forward with the bill—decide to block it?

Republicans complained that the bill was too expensive. And they were upset that Majority Leader Harry Reid prevented a vote on a GOP amendment cutting the bill and adding sanctions against Iran for its nuclear program.

Ah yes, we mustn't be too generous when it comes to the people we ask to defend our country with their lives. Especially not when we're not even able to have a vote on an unrelated piece of legislation, even if that unrelated piece of legislation would make it more likely that we'd send even more veterans to their death, as their Iran sanctions bill would do.

Lovely Republican Party, eh?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/27/1280922/-With-just-41-votes-Republican-senators-block-veterans-benefits-bill

Obama vows action to address VA scandal

By Steve Benen

<...>

I’m glad the political world is starting to talk about the “VA scandal,” because it’s serious and in need of public attention. But to think that the underlying controversy started with VA hospitals in Phoenix is to miss the larger point.

Veterans have struggled in dramatic ways in recent years to receive the care they deserve. This may not fit nicely into the usual “scandal” box – it’s bipartisan; it spans multiple administration; and it’s unfolded slowly over the course of many years – but when American men and women wear the uniform and face a seemingly endless benefits backlog, it should be called what it is.

Yes, the problem has slowly gotten better, and the progress is heartening. Yes, the problem isn’t limited to one administration, so there’s no point in trying to turn this into a partisan political football.

But so long as veterans aren’t receiving the care they need in a timely manner, it’s a problem that shouldn’t have to wait for a solution.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/obama-vows-action-address-va-scandal

Paul (PJ) Rieckhoff‏@PaulRieckhoff·
The President is right. There has been progress at the VA. But not enough. Not even close. @IAVA

https://twitter.com/PaulRieckhoff/status/469132588586926080

[AnalystInParadise]

4. I don't care about the damn politics

Soldiers are killing themselves, a friend of mine killed herself on Good Friday after what she saw in the war, and the VA couldn't see her. I don't care about the politics. Shinseki must go. A head needs to roll in the VA at the top. I agree with Congressmen Scott and Barrow. This is a time for the President to lead proactively and shitcan the head of the VA. It is a disrespect to many veterans that the Secretary is not being asked to resign

[ProSense]

8. Yes, you do.

"Soldiers are killing themselves, a friend of mine killed herself on Good Friday after what she saw in the war, and the VA couldn't see her. I don't care about the politics. Shinseki must go. A head needs to roll in the VA at the top. I agree with Congressmen Scott and Barrow. This is a time for the President to lead proactively and shitcan the head of the VA. It is a disrespect to many veterans that the Secretary is not being asked to resign"

You appparently think two blue dog Congressmen talking crap makes sense.

Here:

Rights group calls VA official 'scapegoat' in scandal over wait times, care
http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/16/politics/va-scandal/

There's your head. Now, let the administration work begin to fix the problem.

[AnalystInParadise]

14. What a surprise

Here you are to protect the "precious".

I am not talking about PBO a man that I love and respect, his Secretary must go. This is just beginning, more Congressmen will denounce the Sec. as more comes out. Hopefully PBO will do the honorable thing and ask for him to resign.

[JaneyVee]

18. Why don't you leave your condescending tone

Somewhere else.

[JI7]

19. you do realize that Shinseki is part of the Obama administration ?

[AnalystInParadise]

21. Yep

And I can support PBO while lambasting Shinseki

Shinseki is no better than Geithner.

[Raine1967]

28. You are not even making sense at this point.

just admit it's about politics for you, at least you will appear to be honest about your outrage.

For the record, I believe the outrage is justified. It's decades overdue.

yes, I Said DECADES.

[AnalystInParadise]

37. It is decades overdue

2007 is gone, nothing has changed. 2010 is gone, nothing has changed. 2014 is right now. We can send a strong message by forcing Shinseki to resign and having an investigation about who else in the Department knew about this. If that is politics, so be it, but if this was 2007 again and I was a member of DU then I would be screaming just as loudly.

[Raine1967]

61. I call bullpucky.

if you want an investigation, have no fear, I suspect Darryl Issa will be all over it.

This time I say let the secretary figure it out and let him get to the bottom of it. I see you, and I see that you want it to be political. The President happens to disagree with having him step down. That works for now, for me.

You know what else kills veterans? War.

POTUS ordered the secretary to investigate. That is what a cabinet member should be doing. HE didm;t cause this, he didn't send a memo down to make this happen.

It would never have happened if we didn't keep chipping away at funding the VA. That funding doesn't come from the executive office, BTW.

[AnalystInParadise]

67. Yeah I was one of those guys in that war

Your point?

Funding was raised every year from 1940-2012 with the exception of 1992 and Older Bush.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS22897.pdf

I want a bi-partisan investigation not some Issa crackpot witch hunt, don't you think government officials somewhere in the VA should be held accountable? Why not the manager? In most jobs in the real world managers get fired.

[ProSense]

23. Well,

What a surprise

Here you are to protect the "precious".

I am not talking about PBO a man that I love and respect, his Secretary must go. This is just beginning, more Congressmen will denounce the Sec. as more comes out. Hopefully PBO will do the honorable thing and ask for him to resign.

...that makes no sense. I mean, you claimed it wasn't about "politics." Then you issued a "dare" to "BOG."

Now, here you are talking about how you "love and respect" Obama, but referring to disagreement about firing the VA Sec as "protect the 'precious'" (whatever the hell that means).

[tblue37]

62. This sounds too much like what some people said after 9/11--that we needed to attack

some Mid Eastern country--any Mid Eastern country--so that they would all understand that they shouldn't mess with us.

The idea was that someone needed to be punished (i.e., "a head must roll&quot , regardless of whether it was the country or group responsible for the attack.

Lopping of the head of a scapegoat never solves the problem, because politics is really at the root of it all, so we do need to "care about [the] politics" causing the mess that prevents vets from getting the treatment this country owes them for their service.

[Skidmore]

29. Back during the Bush years, the husband of a friend of mine worked on the

staff at a VA hospital. He witnessed similar shenanigans used with psychiatric patients there. He reported it and his fellow docs did everything under the sun to squeeze him out of his job to the point that he was in great distress himself. This sort of duplicitous gaming has been going on for years in the VA. It does not surprise me that Shinseki was unaware. We have seen it surface from time to time. Remember the mess with mold growing in the hospitals? The VA system is overtaxed in the extreme right now. It is underfunded, understaffed, and the patient rosters are filled to the max. This is a systemic issue and it needs to be addressed by the Congress by more than grandstanding and speechifying.

[MohRokTah]

32. ^^^ This right here. eom

[AnalystInParadise]

5. I dare BOG

to defend this. I am not attacking the President. I am saying that I agree with Democratic Congressmen that the VA head must resign.

[ProSense]

10. You dare "BOG"?

"I dare BOG to defend this. I am not attacking the President. I am saying that I agree with Democratic Congressmen that the VA head must resign. "

I thought this wasn't about "politics"?

Seems to me there is some anti-Obama sentiments at play here.

[MohRokTah]

12. Ayup. eom

[AnalystInParadise]

16. No I am Pro-Obama

I just knew you could not resist yourselves.......But please continue to show everyone you prefer politics to improving veterans lives.

[MohRokTah]

26. You really have a weird way of showing it. eom

[AnalystInParadise]

30. I know

How dare I get upset with Veterans being treated badly by their agency and the head of that agency taking heat from me. Incredibly odd.....

[MohRokTah]

31. Yes, this entire thread is incredibly odd.

Daring BOG and what not, then deriding an entire group of DUers in blatant violation of TOS.

Incredibly odd...

[AnalystInParadise]

34. Not odd

And if you notice, the captain of the cheer squad responded.

[MohRokTah]

35. Incredibly odd... eom

[AnalystInParadise]

38. Yes you are and transparent

n/t

[JaneyVee]

11. I disagree, hold the actual people accountable

That caused this mess to begin with instead.

[AnalystInParadise]

20. So Shinseki is blameless

I got it.

[JaneyVee]

22. Unless there's evidence of him conspiring

[MohRokTah]

6. That's your opinion and you're entitlted to it.

I'd rather see some criminal charges against the people who are actually causing the problems.

[AnalystInParadise]

7. So two sitting Congressmen are wrong?

Interesting..........Care to elaborate how you are more well informed than two men from our caucus?

[MohRokTah]

9. Generally speaking, 435 sitting members of Congress are wrong.

Members of Congress are often wrong. IMO, these two members of Congress are wrong about this.

[JI7]

17. yes, they are probably wrong, they certainly are wrong in their opposition to gay rights

[tblue37]

63. Why would you think that being a "sitting congressman" indicates more knowledge or honesty

on any issue than not being one? After all, Issa, Boehner, Cantor, Ryan, etc., are also "sitting congressmen," and they are as wrong as can be about everything they ever comment on!

[AnalystInParadise]

73. Access to more information

I am an Intelligence Analyst, I have access to more info about Russia or Ukraine than the average person. But I have access to less than Congressmen who get more widely arrayed briefings than I get. And PBO has more access than Congressmen. Therefore, sitting Congressmen have access to more info than random people on DU. Information flows uphill, not downhill in govenment.

[tblue37]

75. But sitting congressmen also have very powerful incentives to *ignore* facts

when those facts interfere with something the congressmen prefer to do because it will benefit them politically.

[JI7]

15. 2 blue dogs, Scott voted in support of a constitutional amendment to ban same sex marriage

the other guy voted against repeal of DOMA

seems typical blue dog politics here.

[AnalystInParadise]

40. And SSM

has what to do with this issue? OH wait.....absolutely nothing other than your blatant attempt to guilt by association with other issues.

[JI7]

41. it's politics, they are playing for a certain crowd in both cases

[AnalystInParadise]

46. Which crowd

Veterans? Americans that care about veterans? I am curious what crowd you think a member of the Congressional Black Caucus was playing to?

[JI7]

50. conservative leanign crowd, he is a member of the Blue Dog caucus also

[AnalystInParadise]

68. So still a Democrat?

Got it........any other attempts to smear a member of the CBC?

[JI7]

74. it's not a smear, it's a fact, you smear shinseki with this type of thread

[Throd]

24. Anyone at the VA aware of this scandal who stayed silent should be fired.

[AnalystInParadise]

27. Thank you

Agree completely.

[Raine1967]

39. Are you assuming that Shinseki knew?

I;m not trying to pigeon hole you here, but you called for him to go.

I would prefer to see who was responsible for this fiasco to face being let go. To think that Secretary Shinseki knew of this and let it happen is rather bizarre to me.

I understand the anger, but I also know that he was trying to clean this mess up long before the media found red meat and decided to make it a story. It should have been a story 10/20/30 + years ago.

ETA: fixed spelling.

[AnalystInParadise]

44. I don't know

He might have known, he might not have. But he is the head of a department that is about to have a gigantic scandal on its hands. The issues coming out of Miami today are even more egregious, there is a lot left to tell about all of this and the man at the top must be asked to fall on his sword sometimes. This "mess" has existed for decades and PBO even campaigned on this as a Senator and it appears things have gotten worse. Yes I am pissed at the Thugs, they refuse to fund, but this is not just a funding issue.

[tblue37]

66. Fix another word. Your autocorrect changed "prefer" to "piercer."

"I would piercer to see who was responsible for this fiasco. . . . "

[Raine1967]

69. Thank you again!

I am tempted to turn it off altogether… but My typing skills are actually better with it


Technology. damned if I do damned if I don't.

[tblue37]

72. I just saw a subject line of a post by 1StrongBlackMan in which

"You mean" had been autocorrected to "ou mine."

What is truly funny is that it seems autocorrect doesn't correct what really needs correcting--only what doesn't.

[AnalystInParadise]

25. The real question is

Does the swarm Google BOG all day long and when they get a hit, do they then swarm?

My honor is intact, can't say the same for Shinseki. What a disgrace.

[Raine1967]

42. Seriously, if you give a crap the way you say you do in you OP, I'd suggest this:

Stop with your BOG obsession. YOU yourself said it wasn't about politics. What's with the obsession about a group on DU?

[AnalystInParadise]

45. It isn't about politics

But I also knew they would respond, because they can't not respond. It is literally impossible for them to ignore any criticism of this administration. ANY. I am done talking about them, they behaved exactly as predicted and expected. Near pavlovian.............

[Raine1967]

48. Assuming how they would respond is projection. You set up a straw man and are arguing it.

That is disingenuous.

Argue your point. leave the BOG or any other DU group out of this. It weakens your point of debate.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

47. Repeating myself: I was outraged when Walter Reed was allowed to rot, and I'm outraged now

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=806866

Our veterans deserve better. Much better.

I have immense respect for what Gen. Shinseki tried to do during the Iraq war, but he's going to have to step down. I'll readily grant that it's not entirely his fault; he inherited a bad situation, and the VA is chronically underfunded. However, as they say in baseball, you don't fire the team -- you fire the manager. He has been VA head since 2009: he can't run from this 5+ years in. Once he's out, then you fire the Inspector General or whoever is in charge of oversight at the VA.

Jon Rymer is the current Inspector General at DoD. I would recommend him to replace Gen. Shinseki, as Acting Secretary. His first task would be a top-to-bottom review of current VA methods and practices, which he would be well-equipped to conduct.

Now that the ACA is law, I think it is a fair question to ask whether Vets would be better served by being given a policy/being given credit to select a policy, and receiving their care from local providers. I'm not saying they would or wouldn't be better off, but it's something we should discuss nationally, given that we now will be caring for Iraq and Afghanistan Vets for a generation.

[AnalystInParadise]

52. Yep

it was disgusting when whatever asshole Shrub had running the VA was in charge and it is double disgusting now because we promised to make it better and we didn't. Shinseki is the man that needs to fall on his sword, he is the manager.

[politicat]

51. I respectfully disagree, but I understand your frustration.

I'm the granddaughter of a WWII vet, the daughter of a Vietnam vet, married to a Gulf War vet, sibling to two Iraq/Afghanistan vets and served my own time as an intern at VA Phoenix. I live and breathe PTSD -- father and grandfather were untreated, spouse and siblings are getting functional treatment, and the focus of my research is improving the treatments. I've also been the health care advocate for several of those family members in the VA system under multiple administrations.

At this point, the VA runs so much better than it did 20 years ago that I could almost weep. I remember quite clearly when the VA didn't even bother to treat PTSD and denied that there were any physiological or psychological symptoms related to either Agent Orange or Gulf War service. Compared to the civilian system, it does better at treating mental injury (many civilians with mental injuries from crime or abuse have very limited access to the care they need, except for a temporary hold after the ER or maybe drugs), and significantly better than it did in the past. Especially under Shinseki, I've seen drastic improvement. Yes, some systems still need work -- but this mess wasn't born yesterday, and the fact that it was (re)discovered and is being handled is itself a drastic improvement. I do want to see the regional administrators testifying, and I really want to see the training procedures that made this wide-spread taken apart, and I want whatever failed incentives program that encouraged this to be entirely revamped, but those are process failures, not leadership failures.

I agree that VA needs a better emergency intake system, but it has needed that for 35 years. OTOH, the entire medical system needs a better emergency intake system, especially for mental health. I'm not going to blame the head of the administration for a generalized, society-wide system failure.

I am truly sorry for your loss, and I wish I had a better answer for how to fix it. I just don't think removing one head from the hydra is going to fix it, and now is the worst time for that, anyway. The fix will require continuity of leadership until it's resolved. A shakeup will just make it harder to fix and more likely to be ignored once attention moves on.

[AnalystInParadise]

54. Thank you

I can handle disagreement.....

[kwassa]

76. Excellent post. Thank you for sharing your real knowledge on this subject.

[CatWoman]

53. I'm a disabled veteran

and I disagree with you.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

60. I'm not trying to pick a fight. I just have some questions

First and foremost, thank you for your service and your sacrifice.

1) Gen. Shinseki is obviously a very good person and was a thoughtful military leader. That said, he's been on the job since day 1 of the President's first administration. If he's not to blame, then who is?

2) Do you feel you have access to quality medical care through the VA?

3) Do you feel you have access to timely medical care through the VA?

[CatWoman]

77. I think what was going on was a "local" problem

things have improved greatly at the VA since Shinseki took over.

The department is far from perfect, but services are so much better than under the previous administration.

I'm about giving the man a chance.

If, however, he was involved in the shenanigans, then of course he should go.

But remember the VA and ALL govt. services have had to endure severe budget cuts.

Personally I blame the people holding the purse strings. They would like nothing more than to privatize the VA -- a method to their madness. Remember Walter Reed?

[AnalystInParadise]

79. Localized to veterans? Yep.....

26 facilities is local, how again?

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/20/jon-stewart-explodes-in-epic-rant-on-va-scandal-fix-this-fcking-thing/

[applegrove]

56. I think the question is about executive practice and the desire for efficiency goals

attached to executive pay or promotion. If leaving Shinseki in place for now allows the WH to get to the bottom of those practices and how they affected veterans than that is a good thing. I would think the GOP would rather blame it all on Shinseki, Obama's choice, than on the reality of an executive efficiency/bonus marketplace put in a government department.

[AnalystInParadise]

57. I am ok with leaving him in place for now

and when the full depth of the wrong doing is revealed, he should resign and someone better suited should take his place

[applegrove]

58. I agree.

[Iggo]

78. Wow.

[nlab4444]

59. ty

1st, thank you for your service
2nd, you're out of your mind. things have been getting much better for the va in recent times. this is not his fault.

[FSogol]

64. How about the 41 GOP Senators that voted against Veteran's Benefits?

Shouldn't they all go too?

[AnalystInParadise]

71. If we can replace them all in elections

then yes....let's do that too. Shinseki is appointed, the only way to get rid of him is to ask for a resignation or fire him.

[sendero]

65. As I have posted elsewhere...

... I don't think this is rocket science. THE VA IS UNDERFUNDED, THAT IS ITS PROBLEM. It doesn't matter who is running it IF THERE IS NOT ENOUGH MONEY TO DO THE JOB.

Want to get angry, get angry at congress.

[AnalystInParadise]

70. Who says I am not angry at Congress?

I am angry at the Pukes, any Dems that voted to not fund the VA properly, and now Eric Shinseki. Most people can multitask their anger.

[sendero]

81. Shinseki...

..... is not the problem here, in case my point wasn't clear. Shinseki pissed a lot of Repugs off by being right about Iraq. I'm not going to join in on their bullshit blame game, their memories are long but so is mine.

[customerserviceguy]

80. I'd like to see a lot of people fired

I can't be satisfied with Shinseki being the fall guy, while administrators who got bonuses for screwing veterans stay on.

This scandal pushes off the timeframe for single payer in this country. If this can happen to our veterans, what would happen to people who have not earned the thanks of a grateful nation who are dependent on a sole provider of financing of their healthcare?

[mfcorey1]

82. I applaud the President for calling for a thorough investigation. He will roll any

head that has been found to be negligent. To just start arbitrarily firing at his point is giving in to the hysteria of people who want a photo op. We have a serious problem with the unnecessary death of many veterans. Screaming and yelling from Rep. Scott leaves to question why he did not scream and holler when the rethugs were vetoing every piece of legislation that would benefit veterans?