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Thu May 22, 2014, 08:54 AM

This, my friends, is an *actual* coup.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27517591

Thailand coup d'etat as military seizes power

Thailand's military has announced it is taking control of the government and has suspended the constitution.

****

On Tuesday the army imposed martial law. Talks were then held between the main political factions, but the army announced the coup on Thursday.

Political party leaders, including opposition leader Suthep Thaugsuban, were taken away from the talks venue after troops sealed off the area.

Troops have reportedly fired into the air to disperse groups of rival supporters.

The broadcast media have been told to suspend all normal programming.

____________________________________________________________________________________

No vague non sequiturs of cookies or phone calls. No President taking three days to pack up his valuable oil painting collection and then flying away in his own fleet of helicopters. No votes by the legislative body to remove the abdicating president. No immediate scheduling of new elections to replace said abdicating president.

Nope, just a real, live, actual coup d'état. Army comes in, forcibly removes the people in power against their will, suspends the constitution and declares themselves in charge.

Words matter.

56 replies, 5249 views

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Reply This, my friends, is an *actual* coup. (Original post)
Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 OP
MohRokTah May 2014 #1
msanthrope May 2014 #2
Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #3
msanthrope May 2014 #4
freshwest May 2014 #6
msanthrope May 2014 #45
Harry Monroe May 2014 #13
msanthrope May 2014 #33
Jeff In Milwaukee May 2014 #38
whistler162 May 2014 #46
Blanks May 2014 #5
SidDithers May 2014 #7
freshwest May 2014 #8
Demeter May 2014 #9
Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #10
Chan790 May 2014 #23
freshwest May 2014 #27
CJCRANE May 2014 #26
freshwest May 2014 #28
OregonBlue May 2014 #34
oldandhappy May 2014 #11
pampango May 2014 #15
Fred Sanders May 2014 #19
JNelson6563 May 2014 #12
Glorfindel May 2014 #14
unblock May 2014 #16
Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #31
ozone_man May 2014 #40
Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #42
ozone_man May 2014 #47
Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #50
Nye Bevan May 2014 #17
Fred Sanders May 2014 #18
Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #20
Fred Sanders May 2014 #30
Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #32
freshwest May 2014 #43
barbtries May 2014 #21
8 track mind May 2014 #22
Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #29
freshwest May 2014 #44
8 track mind May 2014 #48
freshwest May 2014 #49
riqster May 2014 #51
1000words May 2014 #24
Cleita May 2014 #36
Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #39
Cleita May 2014 #41
arikara May 2014 #25
OregonBlue May 2014 #37
Cleita May 2014 #35
OregonBlue May 2014 #52
Cleita May 2014 #53
OregonBlue May 2014 #54
Enrique May 2014 #55
Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #56

Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu May 22, 2014, 08:58 AM

1. Yep, that's precisely what birthers have been calling for over the past 6 years.

 

And they don't realize what it is they are demanding because NOTHING can be worse than the military taking control of a government.

This country does not understand what a coup it.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu May 22, 2014, 09:16 AM

2. Nice post, Hitler.

 

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #2)

Thu May 22, 2014, 09:17 AM

3. Well, I actually was called a neo-Nazi here recently.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #3)

Thu May 22, 2014, 09:22 AM

4. I got called a cryptofascistauthoritariancorporatist something or other.....

 

Frankly, it was easier when we all just got called "Stasi!"

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #4)

Thu May 22, 2014, 10:26 AM

6. No 'authoritarian swooner, mindless cheerleader' or '1984' cliches? Lucky you!

The eternal posting of the Authoritarians book links, (as if most of us have not read and digested it years ago) to describe DUers who just don't agree with the cult mindset to be a bit much, too. Because only the Pauls are for 'freedom.' Humm, do I need a or icon here?

EDIT: About the crypto thing, are they saying you're dead? Or just mysterious? Or only half something or the other? And don't most of those terms indicate you are being paid by the government to uh, oppress freedom loving spirits here?

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Response to freshwest (Reply #6)

Thu May 22, 2014, 03:53 PM

45. We need to get some Orwell smilies. Crypto? I have no idea....it's not like I expect them to use

 

the language properly.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #4)

Thu May 22, 2014, 11:08 AM

13. Say that real fast, 5 times!!

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Response to Harry Monroe (Reply #13)

Thu May 22, 2014, 01:45 PM

33. oh no I've watched too many horror movies to know that that's a bad idea. nt

 

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #33)

Thu May 22, 2014, 02:19 PM

38. If you do, Sean Hannity suddenly appears (nt)

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #3)

Thu May 22, 2014, 04:20 PM

46. It's the hair and the mustache!

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu May 22, 2014, 09:57 AM

5. They should make a documentary...

So that the American spring brigade can see how it's done. Use it as a training video.



It makes me wonder if the American spring's overwhelming success over the weekend had anything to do with the equally overwhelming success of the tea party candidates on Tuesday.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu May 22, 2014, 10:30 AM

7. Wow. That's just like Ukraine...

Well, if you read nothing but RT, it is.

Sid

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu May 22, 2014, 10:37 AM

8. Tommy, the BBC report seems to describe a world wide trend:

Mr Thaksin and Ms Yingluck have strong support in rural areas and among poorer voters.

Correspondents say they are hated by an urban and middle-class elite who accuse them of corruption.


It would that the wealthier groups are refusing to work with the less wealthy folk.

Is that similar to Ukraine or other European countries?

I wonder how this fracture compares with what is going on in the USA.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #8)

Thu May 22, 2014, 10:39 AM

9. We aren't there, yet.

 

These things must be done delicately...

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Response to freshwest (Reply #8)

Thu May 22, 2014, 10:41 AM

10. In worldwide politics, every situation is unique and plays out in a unique fashion.

It's tempting to draw analogies and comparisons with one place to another, but in the end there always will be factors that make one country's particular situation distinctly its own.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #10)

Thu May 22, 2014, 12:36 PM

23. Yup. I also like to think of national identity politics as familial...

 

as Lev Tolstoy told us: "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." Anna Karinina, Leo Tolstoy, first sentence.

Trying to fit a one size fits all frame on civil unrest is impossible.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #10)

Thu May 22, 2014, 01:12 PM

27. I think we look for a universal cause to advance a more humane solution. Idealism is not for empty

bellies or those who have accumulated great weatlh. It all gets down to the money. And the complexity of the Ukrainian situation is why I believe we are correct in not pitching a fit over it. The people of Ukraine will decide what they want, the only thing is they all want different things. I keep trying to find a cause, like the boundaries drawn up after the world wars. But that region has been warring for centuries before that, and those people know their own history far more than we in America can comprehend. This is where ideology fails to analyze correctly, trying to fit it all into one box or the other. Thanks for the comment, it just sends me back to square one, and feels remarkably like what we are dealing with on a community level. People make political alliances all the time that effect lives, and the goal is not the political game, it is the lives of people. So things can change very quickly.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #8)

Thu May 22, 2014, 12:57 PM

26. It's superficially similar to Iran as well.

I spoke to some Iranian students that told me Ahmedinajad was voted into power by rural religious voters, but despised by urban, educated voters. (Luckily, he's no longer in office).

However, I also have a relative in Thailand who told me that the ruling party in government in Thailand is unbelievably corrupt, almost beyond what you can imagine.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #26)

Thu May 22, 2014, 01:13 PM

28. Thanks for your insight to both countries.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #8)

Thu May 22, 2014, 02:03 PM

34. The Thaksins are crooks. They have used their positions to make themselves fabulously wealthy. They

bought their way into power. Actually, when it comes to it, the Red Shirts (Thaksin supporters), while they are the rural poor, are more the equivalent of the Tea Party than anything else.

The Yellow shirts (royalist and urban and middle class) have run the country for years and have not paid attention to the working and rural poor. They are however better educated and politically more liberal as a rule.

All in all, there is no real comparison to the U.S.

They are both right and they are both wrong. No one is willing to compromise. Stalemate.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu May 22, 2014, 10:54 AM

11. wow Anyone care about Thailand, where this is happening??

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Response to oldandhappy (Reply #11)

Thu May 22, 2014, 11:22 AM

15. Why would we not care about Thailand? Too far away, too small, too brown or just not the USA?

I was in Thailand once a long time ago. There are a lot of really nice people there. I care about them.

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Response to oldandhappy (Reply #11)

Thu May 22, 2014, 11:41 AM

19. 65 million Thai do, not to mention billions of dollars invested, they care also.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu May 22, 2014, 11:06 AM

12. Yes, heard this on BBC the other night.

Around midnite, on my way to work. It seems to have just happened and they were imposing curfews and such. Madness.

Julie

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu May 22, 2014, 11:11 AM

14. Thailand has never had a president. It has a king.

It's a trifle different, but the difference is important. The government has been overthrown, but the chief of state remains.

You're right: Words matter.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu May 22, 2014, 11:27 AM

16. if words matter, i'd call this a "military coup" to distinguish it from other forms of coups.

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Response to unblock (Reply #16)

Thu May 22, 2014, 01:32 PM

31. Very true. There are military coups and there are non-military coups.

And then there are things that some people label as "coups" which are not actually coups at all.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #31)

Thu May 22, 2014, 02:26 PM

40. Is regime change also a coup?

For example, what the U.S. is doing in Syria now. It seems there are many variations on what may be considered coups. Here is a list of regime changes and coups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions


Covert United States foreign regime
change actions
1949 Syrian coup d'état
1953 Iranian coup d'état
1954 Guatemalan coup d'état
1959 Tibetan uprising
1961 Cuba, Bay of Pigs Invasion
1963 South Vietnamese coup
1964 Brazilian coup d'état
1973 Chilean coup d'état
1976 Argentine coup d'état
1979–89 Afghanistan, Operation Cyclone
1980 Turkish coup d'état
1981–87 Nicaragua, Contras
2011–present Syrian uprising


The United States has been involved in and assisted in the overthrow of foreign governments (more recently termed "regime change" without the overt use of U.S. military force. Often, such operations are tasked to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

Regime change has been attempted through direct involvement of U.S. operatives, the funding and training of insurgency groups within these countries, anti-regime propaganda campaigns, coups d'état, and other activities usually conducted as operations by the CIA. The United States has also accomplished regime change by direct military action, such as following the U.S. invasion of Panama in 1989 and the U.S.-led military invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Some argue that non-transparent United States government agencies working in secret sometimes mislead or do not fully implement the decisions of elected civilian leaders and that this has been an important component of many such operations,[1] see plausible deniability. Some contend that the U.S. has supported more coups against democracies that it perceived as communist, becoming communist, or pro-communist.[1]

The U.S. has also covertly supported opposition groups in various countries without necessarily attempting to overthrow the government. For example, the CIA funded anti-communist political parties in countries such as Italy and Chile; it also armed Kurdish rebels fighting the Ba'athist government of Iraq in the Second Kurdish-Iraqi War prior to the Algiers Agreement.

...

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Response to ozone_man (Reply #40)

Thu May 22, 2014, 02:33 PM

42. All coups are regime changes. But not all regime changes are coups.

Classic affirming the consequent.

Of course, with Syria, it's neither a regime change nor a coup, since Assad remains in power.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #42)

Thu May 22, 2014, 08:22 PM

47. An attempted coup or regime change then.

I think the Thailand case is best termed a military junta or military coup. They seem to have long history of that, perfecting it perhaps. At least it is not a violent one (at the moment). By comparison, some of our regime changes, e.g. Iraq war, or Syria (attempted) are quite violent. And have they achieved anything positive? I'm only seeing great loss of life at our hands, and Obama's now.

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Response to ozone_man (Reply #47)

Fri May 23, 2014, 08:39 AM

50. Syria and Iraq are different from one another.

Syria began as peaceful protests around the same time as the protests against Mubarak in Egypt. Of course, where Mubarak folded relatively quickly, Assad fought back brutally, and the situation quickly deteriorated into out and out civil war. Our involvement there--and it's still rather limited--really didn't come until allegations of Assad's brutality against the rebellion came about.

Iraq, on the other hand, was all us. It's possible that if we had just waited a few years, Saddam would have gone the way of Mubarak or Gadhafi. Instead, we wasted billions of our own money on it, plus thousands of lives of our military and of Iraqis.

Iraq was our natural born child, so to speak. Syria is at best our foster child.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu May 22, 2014, 11:30 AM

17. See how words acquire different meanings here. I assumed this was a John Roberts thread (nt)

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu May 22, 2014, 11:40 AM

18. No RW thugs incinerating police forces with petrol bombs.....I see the differences and similarities,

some see only what they want to see.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #18)

Thu May 22, 2014, 11:42 AM

20. I thought you said you put me on ignore. Oh well, guess not. While I have you....

....how did the "coup" in Ukraine happen?

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #20)

Thu May 22, 2014, 01:30 PM

30. This time, honest, you are on ignore. Honest.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #30)

Thu May 22, 2014, 01:33 PM

32. And yet, still no answer.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #32)

Thu May 22, 2014, 03:21 PM

43. LOL

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu May 22, 2014, 11:53 AM

21. like what those american spring people were going to do

til they came up a little short on the numbers?

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu May 22, 2014, 12:36 PM

22. my wifes Mom and her family lives there

Way north of Bangkok. Things are getting way more serious than whats being reported. All facebook posts from them and phone calls have suddenly stopped. According to them, the chap who is running the military is a power hungry asshole and he's been wanting this for sometime. He's very hardline, and has the potential to be a dictator. My wife's Mom has dual citizenship so she may be planning as escape as we speak. We have planned ahead for this, essentially telling her to not tell anyone, just board a plane, and call us when she lands in the states.

I'm afraid this is not going to end nicely. I hope i'm wrong....

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Response to 8 track mind (Reply #22)

Thu May 22, 2014, 01:24 PM

29. Oh wow.

I hope they stay safe!

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Response to 8 track mind (Reply #22)

Thu May 22, 2014, 03:23 PM

44. That's pretty awful to have to live like that. I hope she gets here safely. n/t

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Response to freshwest (Reply #44)

Thu May 22, 2014, 10:31 PM

48. just heard from her

She is still there. The military is in her small town of Udon Thani just to enforce a curfew. She's ok for now and telling us not to worry.

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Response to 8 track mind (Reply #48)

Thu May 22, 2014, 10:47 PM

49. Thanks for the update and I still hope she finds a way out, or things get better. Best wishes to her

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Response to 8 track mind (Reply #48)

Fri May 23, 2014, 10:55 AM

51. Blessings to all of you.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu May 22, 2014, 12:40 PM

24. "a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government."

 

Dictionary definition of "coup."

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Response to 1000words (Reply #24)

Thu May 22, 2014, 02:10 PM

36. And it can be military or not, bloody or bloodless but it's still a coup.

Hitler seized power in a bloodless way in 1933. The blood came circa 1938. Never forget that.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #36)

Thu May 22, 2014, 02:22 PM

39. Typically, even "bloodless" coups involve at least the threat of violence by its perpetrators.

And the former holders of power being forced out because of those threats.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #39)

Thu May 22, 2014, 02:28 PM

41. Or in the case of Al Gore, not being able to be sworn in as the elected

President.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu May 22, 2014, 12:48 PM

25. According to the guardian

this is the 19th coup in 82 years. Poor people.

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Response to arikara (Reply #25)

Thu May 22, 2014, 02:16 PM

37. Most of those have been bloodless and pretty non-violent. Thais have very strong opinions and no one

is willing to compromise. Already there have been over 30 people killed and over 800 wounded in this latest series of demonstrations. Let's hope that the military restores order, sends the protestors home and then the various political parties (there are lots of them in Thailand) come together and work out a compromise.

After the violent and bloody coups in the 1970's the military has been reluctant to use deadly force against Thai citizens. I actually think many police and military personnel would refuse to shoot their own citizens. For all their problems, they are actually not a violent people.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu May 22, 2014, 02:09 PM

35. That's a military coup. Saw many of them when I lived in South America

back in the forties and fifties. We had a non-military coup here in the USA when George Bush seized power back in 2000 with the backing of the Supreme Court. Neither the military coups of SA or our bloodless one had good results.

This coup will not yield the results the Thai people want either.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #35)

Fri May 23, 2014, 12:55 PM

52. Thai coups are nothing like South American coups. They are generally pretty non-violent and

don't last long. Let's hope this one is the same.

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Response to OregonBlue (Reply #52)

Fri May 23, 2014, 01:25 PM

53. I hope so, but my expectations for non-violent ones goes

down when military is involved.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #53)

Fri May 23, 2014, 05:45 PM

54. They've had many coups. Mostly by the military and most of them have been pretty

non-violent. There was some nasty stuff that went on during the 70's but that hasn't happened since, even though there have been other coups. Let's all pray for Thailand. Such a lovely country.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri May 23, 2014, 05:51 PM

55. or is it a putsch?

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Response to Enrique (Reply #55)

Fri May 23, 2014, 06:32 PM

56. Perhaps that as well. nt

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