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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLiving Wage and Minimum Wage
A subheadline at Salon.com said that instead of fancy advertising MacDonalds should pay a "living wage." Finish reading this before you jump down my throat, but I submit that the point is nonsense.
MacDonalds, and other fast food outlets, should not be paying a "living wage" for the simple reason that working in these places is not a real job. This is something that high school kids should be doing to make spending money, not something that anyone should be doing to make a living. It is nonproductive, useless and demeaning work with no real future. It is a stepping stone; "make work" to fill time until one can qualify for a real job.
If this nation has deteriorated to the point that flipping burgers and selling Happy Meals across a counter is considered a "living wage" career then there is no point in discussing our economy because we simply no longer have a meaningful econpmy.
"Minimum wage" should be about high school kids and college students. It should be utterly meaningless in terms of careers and people who are working at full time jobs. The idea that we are willing to have people supporting families on minimum wage, whatever that wage is, is obscene.
We should not be working to make fast food joints pay "living wage" so that people can make a living working there, we should be busting our collective ass to get people the hell out of those trivial jobs and into the real jobs that used to make this nation a real economic power instead of the sham financial giant that it is today.
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randys1
(16,286 posts)We will all work to service others and the wealthy, we will make nothing unless we are willing to compete with Bangladesh wages and work for $10 a day or whatever it is.
Clearly protectionism trade policies are vital to our survival but we will never see them...
JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)This should not be our future. By keeping the focus on minumum wage and on living wage for trivial service industries, we are accepting it as our future. We will get what we demand, and we are not demanding the good jobs and the high wages.
We are demanding a "living minimum wage" in trivial service jobs. We are settling.
Leme
(1,092 posts)except there are few real jobs compared to those looking for such.
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Companies outsource to the cheapest globally, or to avoid taxes etc.
JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)You , like everyone else are whining about what is. Demand change. Create the jobs. Bring them back from overseas. Don't allow companies to outsource.
Leme
(1,092 posts)-
except that is not possible. Not that many real jobs exist.
JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)We did have them at one time. This nation was not built by people flipping burgers at MacDonalds.
Leme
(1,092 posts)
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(16,211 posts)because I can't remember the last time I saw a teenager at a fast food place. Every one is an adult.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I spent year working full time at an Abry's back in the day.
While it's true that I eventually went back to college, at the time I was a self-supporting adult living 500 miles away from Mommy and Daddy. I worked my tail off six days a week from 8 a.m to 5 p.m.
And many of the people I worked wit were older and that was their long-term livelihood. They were working people -- period. Their jobs were just as demanding as assembly-line work, even if the assembly line was cranking out sandwiches instead of car parts. They an I deserved a living wage.
And, as has been noted, many of the formerly "good" working and middle class jobs have been outsourced o automated If more people are going to be manufacturing food as a result, they deserve to be treated as working people.
JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)How does that make my opinion "right wing nonsense?" I did not insult you, and I will not.
I disagree with you that because "many of the formerly "good" working and middle class jobs have been outsourced o automated" that people should be "manufacturing food as a result." We should be demanding that the working and middle class jobs be returned to this country, and we should be inventing new jobs. We should be seeking creative news ways to occupy ourselves.
Instead we spend our time demanding that flipping burgers be a living wage job while we allow our bridges to collapse, our water lines to explode, our sewers to burst and spill sewage into our potable water, our highways to become all but impassable, and the debt incurred by our balance of trade defecit to build higher and higher.
Those who actually are manufacturing food, in the farms and factories of this nation, food that is sold in grocery stores and major outlets, should make a living wage. They are productive workers, providing a necessary contribution to their community. "Fast food" is not food and people flipping burgers are manufacturing nothing. They are preparing snacks, which provide nothing in the way of nutrition or sustenance to society.
That does not mean that I think your ideas are "left wing nonsense" because I do not argue by insult. It just means that I disagree with you. It means I agree with a wise man I one knew who said that "we can't all make a living selling each other hamburgers."
Armstead
(47,803 posts)You'e right, i did what I hate when others do it.
I agree with you that we should be fighting to bring back more jobs of all kinds.
However, I do disagree that we should exclude certain types of jobs like making burgers from the notion of a living wage. It is honest work, and for some people those kind of jobs are the only type of work available.
A fundamental problem is that business today expects something for nothing. Labor is as much a cost of doing business as rent electricity, supplies etc.
csziggy
(34,189 posts)And since the reality is that service jobs, such as those at fast food outlets, are now the only ones available to many people who NEED to earn enough to support themselves, then those jobs should pay a living wage. Dreaming about returning to the old days when this country produced most of our goods and most jobs were created by that production will not create that reality.
Maybe if service jobs were more expensive to corporations, the management will realize that producing real goods rather than simply serving short term profit goals is a better way to make their money. Penalizing the people doing those jobs as a way to achieve that goal just continues to make service jobs more profitable.
JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)In my original post I said we "should be busting our collective ass" to get people back into meaningful jobs. What part of that translates in to "dreaming about returning to the old days" to you? In subsequent posts I said that we should "Create the jobs." and "Bring them back from overseas." What part of that is "dreaming." precisely?
Can't be done? Well it certainly can't be done if we settle for an economy that consists of selling each other hamburgers. It can't be done if we define "making a living" as working in a fast food joint serving crap food. If we wanted a healthy country those jobs would not even exist because the crap that is sold in them is making us fat and sick. Those should certainly not be defined as desireable jobs in a nation that has any vestige of self respect.
csziggy
(34,189 posts)Because calling for more manufacturing on an online forum will not get anything done.
If all you are willing to do is post messages and insult everyone who responds with different thoughts, then you are simply dreaming.
So long.