Here’s How Facebook Can Now Listen To Your Private Conversations - IBT/RawStory

[WillyT]

Here’s how Facebook can now listen to your private conversations
By Anthony Smith - International Business Times
Friday, May 23, 2014 4:55 EDT

<snip>

On the same day that Facebook touted sweeping new efforts to protect users’ privacy, the company confirmed that it plans to save data captured by smartphone microphones, potentially enabling the social media giant to listen in on private conversations.

In a press release issued Wednesday, Facebook announced a forthcoming app update in which a new feature uses the phone's microphone to capture sounds in the user's environment, then identifies the song, movie or television show the user is watching based on what it hears. Once the sound is ID'd, users have the option to share it as a visual component of their posts.

Though Facebook assured that "no sound is stored,” the company acknowledged to International Business Times that it does intend to archive the data gleaned. The company did not discuss whether it plans to use the same feature to gather data from other sounds heard by the microphone, such as users' discussions about their medications or their children.

Though Facebook noted that it intends to make such data anonymous, the sheer scale of its network -- 1.2 billion users worldwide -- renders such information a veritable treasure trove for, say, advertisers keen to study the tastes and inclinations of the public at large. Facebook did not respond to IBTimes’ question on whether it intends to sell the data to third parties.

The disclosure that Facebook has designs on gaining access to smartphone microphones seems certain to open up a new front in the volatile debate over privacy. Already, tech companies find new ways to track user behavior, and there is increasing unease in the U.S. and around the world over the extent of data harvesting by the National Security Agency.

<snip>

Link: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/23/heres-how-facebook-can-now-listen-to-your-private-conversations/

[hobbit709]

1. My dumbphone rules

[Galileo126]

2. Mine too.

[Lifelong Protester]

20. Mine, too!

I don't care who laughs at it.

[DFW]

41. And mine!

My top brass has been after me for 5 years to get a "smart" phone. Yeah, yeah, I know, they're really convenient. They tell you traffic conditions around the corner, weather conditions on Nauru, what Vladimir Putin had for breakfast, and they serve you afternoon tea when you're in London. I don't care.

I get tracked around enough as it is. I don't need to lend bad guys another helping hand. And the lines are becoming VERY blurry as to just exactly who are the bad guys and who are the good guys these days.

[IDemo]

54. Things my $14.99 dumbphone can do:

Call (of course), text, email, internet access (never used it), take photos and videos, play mp3's.

In other words, 95 percent of what the wildly overpriced iWonders are ultimately used for.

[billhicks76]

3. Heads Need To Roll

This should be a felony. 20 years mandatory.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

4. for what? forcing you to use facebook?

if the new policy offends, uninstall that shit and live a happy life...

sP

[billhicks76]

9. I Don't Have The App For This Reason

But by your logic people should simply not talk out loud because some technology may pick it up. Your logic is faulty. Don't you get it? Just being in the same room with someone who has the app means your words are recorded. Ever hear of proprietary trade secrets? Please don't boil this down so simply. And btw Google said they can do this without any app and do it on your computer. You can bet NSA had already done this without any Facebook app. Maybe you should just lay down and let them do whatever they want to you. Unbelievable.

[billhicks76]

24. You are so wrong

I work with many attorneys. They say this has been going on for a while. My friends who work for wall st law firms haven't been allowed to bring cell phones into meetings for over 5 years. I'm paranoid? You sicken me. I would've flagged your comment as a personal attack as is often done on DU when anyone's rationale is challenged personally but I never do that because I have a thick skin for people like you. I doubt you are the same. Wake up. You are the one living under a rock as you do not see what is going on around you. Enjoy your tv or your easy lifestyle. Some of us cannot have our conversations stored for practical reasons. Other than these hideous cell phones I'm paranoid about nothing. When you deal with law enforcement related issues and are in the business of protecting peoples freedom and/or proprietary information get back to me and maybe you will understand what is going on instead of insulting me.

[alp227]

43. That comment was flagged, and hidden (4-3)

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Fri May 23, 2014, 02:24 PM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Geez, quit being so sensitive, people.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Both parties appear to be argumentive and rude. Actually I would prefer to erase both parties, not wanting to give either party leverage just leave it alone.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: useless alert.

doesn't not even come close to violating DU rules.

if you can't take the heat, blah blah blah.

or just go away.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Personal attack,
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Though we may not always agree this is an attack on another DU.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: BOTH posters are in the wrong, but I only get to vote on one of them

Thank you.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

45. And now probably shut out of alerting

On Fri May 23, 2014, 03:01 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

You are so wrong
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4990166

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Rude, insensitive bullying: "Wake up. You are the one living under a rock as you do not see what is going on around you. Enjoy your tv or your easy lifestyle."

Consider that the phrase "wake up" is a common guilt-tripping tactic by conspiracy theorists: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Wake_up

Had this user not included the rude "wake up" and "living under a rock" passages, I wouldn't have alerted. Otherwise, this user just stained an otherwise compelling post with a violation of community standards: "good discussions among a diverse community of people holding a broad range of center-to-left viewpoints."

Furthermore, this user tying "My friends who work for wall st law firms haven't been allowed to bring cell phones into meetings for over 5 years" with an overall theme of Facebook spying on private conversations - see posts 5 and 9 - is quite laughable and meets the definition of "paranoid fantasies with little or no basis in fact." Enough already.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri May 23, 2014, 03:09 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Brusque but within the bounds of political discourse. Alert actually seems frivolous or vindictive.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: LOL, you alert and take the opportunity to continue to accuse him of being paranoid? I vote to leave it alone.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[billhicks76]

47. I was flagged?

I never flag anyone. The only posts that get flagged a lot are always about surveillance. Weird. I only used the term living under a rock because it was used against me and I was repeating it. I have been flagged twice in my life here and the person who flagged me repeated my words back to me in the same fashion and they were fine. I really don't get all the fuss. I think the article speaks for itself but being passionate and trying to explain to someone why who keeps telling me I'm paranoid should not be out of bounds. I quit posting over it.

[billhicks76]

49. I'll Name The Law Firms

Is that what it takes to make someone feel better and not question my veracity? I promise I'm not delusional, over-emotional or a conspiracy theorist. Thank you DU for the exchange of ideas that you provide and thank you jury system for supporting me. This is by far my favorite website and the only reason I post often here. I posted a really nice comment to the person that was going back and forth with me towards the end so they knew I was discussing in good faith. I really do only comment here out of compassion for those here and people in general and because I'm concerned for our world. I'm assuming it's not them who even flagged my comment but someone else who probably has more of a dog in the fight or who is just against certain ideas. I would normally want to specifically be more open about my own bio, the family I grew up in, the companies I worked for, why I don't work for them any longer and the people I know but it would not be in my interest to do so regardless of how more efficiently it could color my comments or add credibility to them. No I'm not a wanna be Snowden type and no I don't have delusions of grandeur. I come from a background of extreme privilege that I fought against, but I worked very hard in my field and excelled. I happen to have the flu at home and have had some time on my hands and this article infuriated me as it has to everyone I've been emailing, chatting and texting with as well as commenting here with. I do apologize for rambling and any incoherence, but I keep having to edit for grammar and spelling errors because that happens with a high temperature and a cough. I'm sure it's irrelevant and no one cares but there you have it. Thank you for allowing me to participate. Btw Wired magazine has been really good on this topic lately. Let's see if they pick this story up.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

57. The jury voted 7-0 in your favor.

Whomever alerted on you had their alert privileges taken away for 24 hours.

[billhicks76]

58. Thank You

Some people use the Alert button to stop the free flow of ideas. Not because they are offended.

[billhicks76]

5. Felony If We Did This

So International Business Times reported today that Facebook has admitted that it's app turns the microphone on on your phone and records everything you say around your phone and stores it forever. Imagine what NSA does. They don't need tha app. No wonder everyone's batteries drain faster now. Google said they were going to do this with our computers in 2007. They all say it's to identify music you play on your stereo or to know your habits for commercial use. Are they freaking kidding? Holy crap...so we were right. They are actually not just recording everything you say on your phone but everything you say out loud period. Or what anyone says out loud around you. Wow. So personal info about your kids or secret business information. I think whoever does this should spend the rest of their life in prison or worse. This is the most vile thing I have ever heard. You don't have to have an app to do this either. Either get a protective phone bag to shield the signal or get rid of your cell phone. No wonder journalists, judges, attorneys and politicians are being blackmailed...they know every little thing they have ever said. And law enforcement??? They don't stop at texts or wiretaps. Heads should roll. Wake the hell up people. Facebook got paid millions by NSA to initiate the Prism program we knew but TODAY they admitted part of that is recording and saving everything you or anyone around you has said out loud as long as your phone is on...and if it's off they can remotely turn it on and make it look like its off. An attorney told me they have been doing this to pot growers but it's led law enforcement out of control. They know your kids secrets, your secrets and your mothers secrets whether it be sexual, political, business or anything at all. I've never heard anything more evil and it's a total reality not just crazy talk. They should pay for my battery too cause this tech drains them quickly.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

8. no it wouldn't be

because the app would have to have permission to use your mic... you make the CHOICE to use it or not. if i asked you if i could record you at various times of the day and you say 'yes'... well, you can't sue me for making the recordings.

sP

[billhicks76]

11. Wrong

Sprint or Apple or Verizon can say you gave them permission by contracting them. You think only Facebook does this? You don't need the app although most people have it. What about someone standing next to you with the app but you don't even own a cell phone. And NSA is doing it on their own too. I heard about this in 2007 but now they admit it always on and the mics are always hot. But keep making excuses.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

16. previous post being confirmed...

believe what you will.

sP

[billhicks76]

28. Educate Yourself

Stop making excuses. I have been instructed many times that I cannot have a cell phone on me and it has nothing to do with the FB app. This is just the latest revelation. Rogue corporations and individuals can do this without any app asking for permission. Google said they wanted to do this as far back as 2007 and they didn't need an app. That is only for cell phones and pads to make things simpler for common users but all computers have mics that are activated remotely. Law enforcement has been using this technology (illegally in my opinion) since 2003 without any app. You yourself can insert the tech on anyone's cell phone without an app. You used to have to have physical control over the device because most companies would only sell the remotely installed software to law enforcement. This is not the case any longer and hasn't been since around 2011. The fact that the government now does this exact thing without the Facebook app should be enough to make you question. But you don't. That's your right. But they are still absorbing everything said "near" phones whether you accept the possibility or not. They do not care what you think. 90% of people under the age of 45 who use Facebook have the app on their phones and the result is the same whether you believe it's their fault or not for not reading the fine print in their user agreement. But Facebook is just one of many companies. Telecoms have opened the door for the NSA to vacuum all this information up on their own. All of it...that's the point. It can be referenced later if you become a "problem" or are associated with a group or viewpoint that becomes a "problem". Thanks for your continued insults and personal attacks though as they probably discredit you to anyone who thinks outside the bubble.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

32. previous post being confirmed...

again...

sP

[tkmorris]

12. I don't think you understand how this app works

It isn't "always on". Facebook doesn't turn it on. The user does, when they want to use it. Even then it only records a brief snippet, and the sounds it records are not stored.

Of course, the data about what song or TV show is being watched IS archived, and that is more info than I would like to give away. I would never use this thing. But it isn't the super secret spy on everything you do and say device you seem to think it is.

[billhicks76]

50. Perhaps You Are Right

My understanding is that you don't have to be using the app for it to collect information much like some apps were collecting GPS coordinates 24/7 but I could be mistaken. My bigger worry is people who are specifically targeted where malware is inserted on the phone through various entry points and then used to listen to conversations at will. Even our local tv station did an exposé on this software which can be sent over a transmission line, inserted and even pretend the phone is off as it makes the mic "hot". This was 4 years ago. The TV crew was stunned when the phone they experimented on sent back live conversations of the owner talking to people at the mall and gas station as it appeared to be in power off mode. It was rudimentary stuff so I assumed by now they could use this technique for metadata collection in the form of ambient or "environmental" conversations around a phone. I know for a fact law enforcement used to pay a nominal fee without a warrant to telecom providers for monitoring phones and the fees ascended in order of complexity from $10-$250 in this order : pen registers, GPS timelines, text compilations, live phone wiretaps and ambient taps(the ones this thread is addressing). And millions of requests by law enforcement were made to each telecom and subsequently provided by each telecom although their fees varied as did how far back each could go to mine the information. For extreme national security investigations and not normal drug, criminal or political investigations the NSA and Homeland Security could bypass the telecoms as they had back door access anyway. This was all 4 years ago. I believe now most law enforcement has back door access and doesn't really need the telecoms anymore. One small example would be the Stingray device made by Harris Corp which swears police chiefs to silence how they use these bought with federal grant money because the info is proprietary much like electronic voting machines. Police chiefs have refused questions even in court.

[tkmorris]

6. It's completely voluntary. No one has to do it.

I don't see how that could be actionable.

[billhicks76]

18. You Are Wrong

Last edited Fri May 23, 2014, 01:55 PM - Edit history (1)

It could be someone else's phone because the microphones have a range of about a 15 ft radius. AND you don't need the app. NSA does it without any app. I give up. Enjoy totalitarianism which is right around the corner. People need to be secure in their conversations. If you can't even talk out loud without someone making a note of it even in your own home or a private business meeting then we are screwed. Ah right. Just don't let anyone you know have a cell phone in their pocket in your home, around your kids at school or at your job. Thanks for that. I guess it is all our fault and responsibility.

[tkmorris]

29. We are talking about Facebook, not the NSA

If you want to make the argument that the NSA is accessing people's private conversations by remotely controlling their smartphone microphones, be my guest. That has NO place in this thread however, unless you want to make the claim that Facebook is doing so as well, and if you are it would behoove you to provide some evidence of that.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

7. I believe in all ten...

...of the articles in the Bill of Rights.

No, facebook has no rights to my conversations and no, the NSA (or any other agency) has no rights to my conversations.

IV - The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

10. unless you believe fb is part of the gov't

then the bill of rights does not apply. the BoR protects people from the gov't...

sP

[billhicks76]

15. You Think It's Just Facebook?

That kind of naïveté makes me angry. Please don't stand next to me with a phone if you have the app and I don't. They don't need the app. NSA can vacuum it all up without the dumb app.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

17. yes, this article is talking about facebook

if you think the NSA can do all this cool stuff then your issue is not with facebook... but you said they should go to jail so i chimed in.

sP

[billhicks76]

21. Are You A Lawyer?

What if I'm standing near someone with the Facebook app? Please look at the reality on not the pontifications.

[billhicks76]

22. South Park

Ever seen the Apple spoof? Human-Centi-Pad? You should because this thread is 100% about it. Unbelievable.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

19. The 4A does more than one thing

Yes it applies as a general protection of privacy for the individual from the government. However, the 4A also expresses the inherent right which we all have to privacy. Yes the NSA is specifically prohibited by the Fourth Amendment from examining and collecting your private information. The 4A exists because we all have the right to expect that everyone will respect our privacy. This is why many laws exist and many criminal convictions verdicts regarding non-governmental wire-tapping, eavesdropping and other privacy invasions are rendered.


Aside from that facebook just annoys me. I look at facebook 4 to 5 times year.

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. Phillip K.Dick quote

“There will come a time when it isn't 'They're spying on me through my phone' anymore. Eventually, it will be 'My phone is spying on me'.”


― Philip K. Dick

[billhicks76]

51. What A Visionary

The guy was a genius and way ahead of his time. Sci-Fi is often just people who see things before they have taken hold.

[billhicks76]

23. I Give Up

If the government or a corporation ( and if you have been paying attention at all the least 10 years you would know there is no difference any longer as everything is outsourced and shared) found a way to look through our windows and watch our kids, wives or husbands undress people here would find a way to justify it or explain it away. "close all your blinds". Or if the could see through those? " it's your fault you have windows get rid of them". We have laws for a reason people and they shouldn't just apply to the average person. I am beyond disgusted with half the responses here but maybe I'm giving our citizens ability to reason too much credit. I'm exiting this thread. I believe I've addressed the faulty arguments made justifying this. Going to go throw up now or maybe check out a progressive website were people actually give a crap about the molesting of the American people. Im beginning to understand how Fox News listeners are so deluded. It's just easier to live in a bubble. Their bubble is smaller but like everyone has their price everyone has their bubble too. I criticize whats going on out of love for people and our planet and nothing more. Time to go cry, lick me tears and throw them back up.

[woo me with science]

26. Your posts are cogent and spot on. DU is heavily propagandized.

What you are dealing with are not discussions. They are advertisements and damage control.

[tkmorris]

30. I am absolutely astounded you called the post you responded to "cogent"

It is a screed loaded with factual errors and false comparisons, barely intelligible and overly emotional. Further your accusation that those who disagree with this poster's point of view are posting "advertisements and damage control" is offensive, rude, and displays an inability to form a counter argument.

[woo me with science]

33. War is Peace!

[billhicks76]

46. Exactly

Freedom is Slavery. Some people either just never learn, live in a bubble or have suspect intentions.

[billhicks76]

31. Thank You

I have a persistent one who insists I'm paranoid and live under some kind of geological earth formation. It didn't take long for the personal attacks but it's always to be expected with this topic.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

34. you are ... and you should

if you honestly believe all of the stuff you write...

and as far as being 'persistent'... to the best of my knowledge, before today, i had never responded to anything you have ever written here so I guess four or five posts in one thread makes me 'persistent'...

sP

[billhicks76]

37. I Wish You Luck

I really do. One of the beautiful things in life is that we all change and evolve. If you are as smart as you think you are I believe at some point you will see the reality more clearly. Not everyone understands everything at the same moment but the fact that you are engaged at all and obviously not a troll lends some hope to you evolving on the issue. It wasn't that long ago that some people here never thought anyone's phones were tapped, texts archived or GPS coordinates monitored ever so I'm just happy most people comprehend the direction this is going. Some see things before they happen, some see things as they happen and some see things after they happen. The point is to just get people to see at all. When I worked in the aerospace industry decades ago no one believed just the normal, simple things we accomplished and now they are standardized. Good luck on your journey.

[woo me with science]

35. Yes.

This topic is definitely on the top of the list.

[factsarenotfair]

27. "It's just easier to live in a bubble."

At least in the short run.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

38. The price many people are prepared to pay for fancy gadgets and convenience as

well as the willingness to give up privacy and other rights is astounding.

[billhicks76]

52. I'll Admit I'm No Different

We are victims of our own collective evolution. Hopefully the skill is to use technology responsibly. It's our only hope really. How can we compete or flourish in our society without a car, computer or cell phone although I'll grant you it's highly annoying trying to type all my comments from a cell phone keypad and not sound incoherent.

[Cali_Democrat]

25. LOL. nt

[woo me with science]

36. K&R

[get the red out]

39. Oh my!

So if I call my husband before I stop to get Cajun food tonight to see what he wants I'm likely to have Gumbo promotions all over my FB page?

This is going way too far! I understand the need for marketing revenue, and I really don't mind if I "like" a pet supply store page and get dog treats advertised to me, but that is a choice I make on FB, to "like" something. It isn't a conversation with someone or the sounds in my living room.

[AtheistCrusader]

40. Fuck it. That's it. I'm done.

They can watch me all they want. I don't care anymore. To hell with it.

But they better brace themselves, because I'm going to be as gross and dirty about everything as *I* want.

Because if someone in this 'relationship' is going to be uncomfortable, it sure as hell ain't gonna be me.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

42. That's pretty creepy.

You can control which apps can access your microphone. If for some reason that isn't the case with their next update, then the solution is simple. Bye bye, Facebook app.

[laundry_queen]

44. Yep.

I have the facebook app but pretty much never use it. I will delete it if I cannot turn that off. I just looked and it doesn't appear FB has requested access...You tube has though. I turned it off. Creepy is right.

[Ilsa]

48. Not a Fb user. I don't care that my church or school is.

I refuse to use them.

[billhicks76]

53. First they came for...

Lol. I hear you but be vigilant. Just the phone itself can be used this way without the FB app. FB is a great networking tool but we are pretty stupid for using it. I just can't help it. Most people self-censor themselves online by now as studies have shown. But having to self-censor our "ambient" or "environmental" conversations in open space means we have crossed the rubicon into the most creepy world ever imagined. Let's use our system of laws to create a framework where there are severe penalties for this. That's what laws are for. When matches were created no one said," Hey there is nothing you can do about it...just accept technology and let everyone burn people's houses or businesses down." No...we created laws against arson (sort of a good analogy). Things are getting way to much like 1984 or the movie Brazil and you can bet if we don't stop it now it will be people like us who this will be used against. The government will be about persecuting liberals not bloodthirsty conservatives.

[Ilsa]

55. I agree: we need the laws in place

with severe financial penalties and incarceration. It has to hurt.

But I'm not going to make it easy for them by using their product on my cell or downloading their app.

[billhicks76]

56. I Never Downloaded FB App For This Reason

Last edited Sat May 24, 2014, 01:30 AM - Edit history (1)

But I'm still guilty of other foolishness. I admire you.

[Blue_Tires]

59. k+r