We need to have a discussion about a difficult topic: What to do with the mentally ill

[JJChambers]

Our system right now isn't working. There aren't adequate facilities for the mentally ill to seek treatment and there are no safeguards to ensure that those who need medication take the medication. We see it time after time: a mentally ill person commits a violent crime and is sent to the state hospital for a short period of time, just long enough for the doctors there to medicate the person, document a positive response to the medication, and then that person is released. Once released, there are no safeguards to ensure that person sticks to the prescribed medication. Often there is a violent outburst / arrest / medicate / release / fall off medication / repeat cycle.

Of course we will not be able to detect or identify every mentally ill spree killer before they strike. But we need a way to ensure that people like Rodger Elliot are not a danger to society once it becomes apparent that they're suffering from dangerous mental illness. The police contacted Elliot several times. He very publicly posted his disturbing messages. His parents warned law enforcement and mental health professionals to attempt to get resolution.

The system failed because it is designed to fail.

What do we do? Should bring back the insane asylum, albeit a modern, more humanitarian version, designed to protect the wellbeing of those committed and prevent their abuse?

[Agschmid]

1. It is a conversation society needs to have.

I am afraid there is little to no way to prevent abuse of any system that would get put in place.

Another question is how do you catch people who are about to go "off the rails"... People knew all about this guy and nothing happened to stop him.

I just don't have a great idea.

[kelliekat44]

75. We first have to recognize who is mentally ill and who is not. Does weird behavior alone make one

mentally ill or just a rebel? And are rebels mentally ill? We need the discussion on this but it will not be easy.

[Agschmid]

76. Nope the definition alone is somewhat hard to understand...

I go to therapy would that be a red flag? Most likely yes.

[phil89]

2. Well mental illness doesn't cause violence

so I'm not sure what good taking peoples' rights away by putting them in asulums would do.

[JJChambers]

4. When a mentally ill person is exhibiting signs of homicidal rage or intentions..

We need a way to ensure that person no longer has access to society until the problem is permanently corrected via forced medication and treatment or incarceration.

[karadax]

26. Yeah because that's worked well in the past.

Out of sight out of mind? That is what led to many horrible things happening in mental health facilities of the past. People were sealed up and forgotten about.

Isolating them is not the answer. We can find a better way.

[jwirr]

46. And in typical human fashion once the institutions start making money off of their inmates the

definition of mental illness will expand and once in they will not be released. That is a good description of what happened in the past. One good change today is that they must be given a chance to defend their situation against their accusers. Back when it only took 10 untrained persons to commit a person. Husbands did this to unwanted wives all the time. 10 friends and he was free.

I agree that something has to be done but we need to be aware of the past.

[phil89]

45. So your belief is that the mental illness causes the person

to be violent, and if you treat the mental illness then the violence stops?

[Jamastiene]

77. Why not do the same with sane people who are exhibiting signs of homicidal rage or

intentions? Why are you singling out "mentally ill" people only? Mentally ill does not equal violent. You are showing how ignorant you are on the topic of mental illness.

[nomorenomore08]

90. +1

[Warren Stupidity]

3. Step one: do something about the deluge of guns. nt.

[JJChambers]

5. No, that isn't a step.

I'm sure the three people stabbed to death would take great comfort in knowing that their death wasn't as bad as those shot to death by this madman.

[joeybee12]

40. Thanks for the NRA talking point that is easily disproved...

It is kill much easier to kill someone with a gun than with a knife. That is a fact. Your post sickens me, a disgusting attempt to try avert attention from the real problem...the NRA and cowardly politicians.

[Mojorabbit]

108. I agree with that poster. dead is dead. It is a nuanced and complicated problem

and soundbite solutions are less than useless.

[davidn3600]

28. Guns are a different issue

That idea that we need to do something about guns before we do something about mental health is ridiculous.

Getting rid of guns doesn't make the mental illness go away.

[Warren Stupidity]

62. The primary problem with mass shootings is guns.

Everything else is a distraction used to deflect away from the primary problem's obvious solution.

Oh and mental health services and the lack thereof is a problem that can be dealt with independently, but note that this person had plenty of access to services. So obviously meeting the needs of people with mental health problems is not going to fix our mass shooting problem.

[davidn3600]

71. And the gun problem can be dealt with independently

[Warren Stupidity]

82. Not if we get deliberately distracted by peripheral issues.

Again: the primary problem with mass shootings is guns.

[davidn3600]

86. No one is disputing that

But even when you remove the guns, mental illness remains.

From what I read, this latest shooter got a hold of the guns illegally anyway. So more gun laws wouldnt have prevented this.

And please don't give me this fantasy of one day a nation that bans all guns. Seriously...that will never happen. 45% of American own a firearm. There are more guns in this country than people. You aren't banning anything.

[Jackpine Radical]

88. The primary problem creating killings of all kinds

is an insane, death-worshipping, testosterone-driven, hateful culture that promulgates violence as a solution to a wide variety of problems. The guns are just a symptom.

[Jamastiene]

79. Getting rid of mentally ill people is not going to get rid of gun violence.

You assume everyone who ever shoots and kills someone with a gun is mentally ill.

And your diagnosis is based on what type of degree and how many number of years of experience in telepathic diagnosing of people as "mentally ill?" I'm surprised you are not in high demand with that kind of magical ability.

[Spider Jerusalem]

6. The focus on mental illness as a problem...

rather than the widespread availability and ease of acquiring firearms? Is frankly stupid. The solution to horrific acts of violence committed by people with guns is actually pretty easy. But Americans will never ever do it.

[JJChambers]

7. Really? So the availability of guns has exactly what to do with the stabbing spree he went on?

It is beyond despicable to turn this into a gun issue. It is clearly a mental illness issue. He sliced three people to death before the shooting rampage. But let's blame it on guns, because that is easier than addressing the real problem: mental illness.

[Spider Jerusalem]

8. It's also pretty clearly a gun issue.

He didn't commit drive-by stabbings, after all. And it's not just this guy, it's Adam Lanza and James Holmes and dozens of others.

[JJChambers]

10. What do they all have in common? Mental illness

Elliot slashed three people to death. I suspect he would have cut more to death with it access to a gun. Maybe it would have been a smaller death toll than with access to a gun, or maybe not, but why does that matter? The real problem is that he was not institutionalized despite his obvious homicidal mental illness.

[Spider Jerusalem]

15. And easily obtained guns.

Frankly? I'm sick of sententious jackasses like Wayne LaPierre claiming "we don't have a gun problem, we have a mental illness problem" every time something like this happens. Especially when there's a very clear correlation between the ease of obtaining firearms and deaths due to firearm violence.

[JJChambers]

17. So the problem is with guns

The people he stabbed to death? No problem there??

[Spider Jerusalem]

20. If he hadn't engaged in a drive-by shooting? You might have some sort of point.

As it is? It looks like you're just trying to deflect attention from the very real problem of easily-obtained firearms being largely responsible for the USA's gun death rate.

[JJChambers]

32. If he hadn't stabbed three people to death? You might have some sort of point.

As it is? It looks like you're just trying to deflect attention from the very real problem of untreated mental illness in our society.

[Spider Jerusalem]

35. You're really funny.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2008-2012.xls

Total murders by weapon, firearms of all types: 8859. Knives or other stabbing or cutting instruments: 1589. Six times as many deaths from firearms as from knives, swords, machetes, straight razors, etc.

...mental disorders are neither necessary, nor sufficient causes of violence. The major determinants of violence continue to be socio-demographic and socio-economic factors such as being young, male, and of lower socio-economic status.

Second, members of the public undoubtedly exaggerate both the strength of the relationship between major mental disorders and violence, as well as their own personal risk from the severely mentally ill. It is far more likely that people with a serious mental illness will be the victim of violence.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1525086/

[phil89]

19. What is homicidal mental illness?

Are there peer reviewed studies showing that mental illness causes people to kill?

[Neoma]

48. Mental illness is a very common scapegoat.

It only serves to stigmatize.

[Louisiana1976]

59. Well said.

[nomorenomore08]

92. +2

[etherealtruth]

94. In this case the intent is to stigmatize

Stigmatize and vilify ... the problems are not with guns ... it is "those" people. (I added the sarcasm to be clear I DO NOT believe this filth) It is disgusting to attempt to worsen the plight of members of the population already facing significant hurdles (simply to promote an agenda)

[Neoma]

96. I want to ask you a question then.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1260662
You'll see it in this group. (Trying to guide discussion to over there.)

[treestar]

11. It wouldn't stop stabbing deaths

But would stop gun deaths. We can't ban guns or control them until there is no other way to kill people?

[JJChambers]

14. Why not address the root cause: mental illness

[treestar]

39. That too

[Neoma]

50. Mental illness is NOT the cause of all violent acts.

Are you seriously going to sit there and claim I'm a violent psychopath because I have bipolar disorder? My, my, I must be crazy and a lunatic and I must be stopped for having a fucking mental illness! Look at me, the cuckoo flew over the birds nest!

Your topic disgusts me.

[Louisiana1976]

64. It disgusts me, too.

I also have bipolar disorder.

[DeadLetterOffice]

89. +1000

'Murderous' does not automatically mean 'mentally ill.'

'Crazy' is not an actual mental health category. Neither is 'violent psychopath.'

Mentally ill persons are more likely to be victims of violence than to be perpetrators.

[phil89]

65. Mental illness has never been shown to be the root cause of violence.

You're just repeating things you've heard and enforcing stigma/stereotypes.

[nomorenomore08]

91. You can consider it misguided, if you wish, but how is it "despicable"?

No one's going to take your guns away. Even with stricter gun-control laws.

[Bjorn Against]

101. I have a brother with schizophrenia, fuck you for trying to call mental illness the problem

You think it is despicable to blame this on a material object, I think it is despicable for you to blame it on people like my brother.

[NealK]

106. +1 n/t

[frazzled]

22. There's both a mental health issue AND a gun issue

They're separate, and sometimes they're linked.

There is a shortage of mental health practitioners in this country, and too few of them take insurance. (We have a friend who is a psychiatrist in a major American city--not saying which--and she once told us that she is one of the few who will take on patients with insurance rather than just those able to self-pay; she said she can do this only because she has independent means.)

And, despite the OP's plea, it's not clear at all that drugs are always the answer. Some of these drugs for mental imbalances actually create more problems than they solve. We need a vastly improved therapeutic setting in this country, and we also need more public understanding of mental illness that will de-stigmatize the illnesses for those who need to seek help for themselves or loved ones. The culture needs to change.

We also need desperately to change the gun culture in this country. We'd be a thousand times better if the public rancor aimed at, say, cigarettes were directed at guns and gun culture. I'd rather have a thousand young angry men smoking on street corners than harbor guns.

[bettyellen]

25. THIS X 10000000. I am tired of this either/ or thinking.

[etherealtruth]

9. Certainly we as a scoiety need to deal with mental illness, I don't think anyone denies that

Mental illness robs people of their lives. It plays a large role in homelessness, unemployment ...it destroys interpersonal relationships

In the context of mass shootings and mass murders we need to address the presence (easy access/ availability) of guns in American society.

[JJChambers]

12. I'm sure the victims he stabbed to death take comfort in knowing

That we are proposing to enact more gun control.

[etherealtruth]

24. Your statement makes no sense whatsoever ...?

What exactly is your contention? .... the mentally ill are violent (google can be your friend, you can find a multitude of studies/ data indicating that the mentally ill are far more likely to be the victims of violence rather than the perpetrators) .... perhaps you are trying to imply that knives are a better weapon of mass murder than firearms (again google can be your friend) .... or perhaps you have spoken to the families of those that this mass murderer killed using a knife and they have clearly expressed to you support for guns (possible, but highly improbable)

(for the times one facepalm simply wont do)

[Jamastiene]

80. Thank you. n/t

[LAGC]

13. NRA TALKING POINT!!

(Just kidding.)

Seriously though, I wouldn't broad-brush all mentally ill folks just because the EXTREMELY rare one goes off on a murderous rampage.

Most folks suffering from mental illness are harmless, even when not medicated. But you're right, in those particular cases where a mental health professional realizes someone is about to snap, it should be easier for them to involuntarily commit someone -- at least a 72-hour hold so they can be evaluated and observed by trained professionals.

Nothing is fool-proof though. Chances are, even if this kid was briefly detained, he could have very well bullshitted his way out of it just like he did those several police contacts prior. Psychopaths are pretty good at presenting a facade.

Sometimes such random (albeit rare) acts of mass violence are just the price we have to pay to live in a free society.

[pinto]

16. I think some good steps - educate 1st responders & model effective responses to psych disorders;

educate family and friends likewise; support and expand mental health services; work to make all interactions into a comprehensive whole.

And maybe most importantly, include those with psych disorders as an integral part of it all. Don't marginalize them - they're obviously the key component to it all.

And on a larger scale, don't marginalize the big picture. "Out of sight, out of mind" is not a solution. It's a cop out.

[KT2000]

18. we sure do need that discussion

and then some action.
First we need to listen to the families of the mentally ill to fully understand what the problems are. They know that there is not much being done now. They know that the family's assets, energy, and time are committed to the mentally ill family member and there is not much help available until laws are broken. When it gets really bad, we house the mentally ill in jails, prisons and the streets where they are preyed upon. Few have the luxuries that Rodger had to maintain a life.

We have come to see the mentally ill as dangerous but in reality most are so vulnerable to the violent actions of others.

We need to do something that protects the mentally ill person and society.

[bettyellen]

29. thank you.

[YoungDemCA]

21. We need to have a discussion about seething misogyny, racism, and access to firearms

And why these things seem to go hand in hand in these cases.

[Spider Jerusalem]

23. Also in propping up the Republican Party's vote share.

Considering the percentage of their base that consists of angry white men with guns.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

27. Look at other countries

Maybe they have better systems?

[KamaAina]

30. How about keeping them away from guns?

'Cause it's, y'know, the law?

[KitSileya]

31. It is important to note that mentally ill people are more likely to be killed,

than they are of killing someone. Most mentally ill people, like most mentally sane people, do not kill. Mental illness should be covered by health insurance just like physical illness, and everyone should work to change our culture that sees mental illness as something shameful. When people talk about imprisoning mentally ill persons in 'insane asylums', we should stop them, and say that being mentally ill should be no more stigmatizing than being physically ill. If someone has a psychotic break and kills someone, how is that different than someone having a heart attack while driving and running down someone? In both cases, the person was sick, and deserved treatment for symptoms that were most likely so obvious in hindsight...

[fizzgig]

36. we've made great strides in insurance coverage for mental health

as far as i understand, most insurance plans are required to have parity between "physical" health and "mental" health coverage in terms of co-pays and no caps on visits. medicaid (?), however, does not have the same requirement and that desperately needs to be addressed.

[Louisiana1976]

67. +1 million

[morningfog]

33. It is a problem that desperately needs to be addressed. Until that time, regulate the guns.

We are a long way from fixing the broken mental health system in this country. We need to get control of our guns to limit the availability and damage.

[fizzgig]

34. what to do WITH us?

how about what we can do to HELP us.

right now, the jail is the largest mental health facility in the county. and, no, most do not commit VIOLENT crimes, the commit non-violent offenses so that they can be taken to the jail. they get medicated and back on track (usually) and then get dropped back into a community with only patch-work system of treatment and support.

there are no-cost/sliding scale programs here, but the number of life-time visits you can get for both therapy and psychiatric care is rather limited. then there is the cost of the medication (one of mine is not generic and is more than $200 a month without my insurance). then there's the factor of homelessness. all services, at least in my experience, require proof of residency to receive assistance.

there are also a limited number of inpatient treatment beds and the state mental health facility is not used for everyday folks. inpatient care is also very expensive (i'm speaking from personal experience here).

beyond that, i think the situations in which a person can be forcibly committed should be limited. and i don't think that anyone should be forced to take medication.

i'm tired of the meme that just because someone is mentally ill, it automatically makes them violent. we are far more likely to a) be the victim of violence and b) be of threat to ourselves rather than others. these situations are the exception rather than the rule but are not treated as such.

[LittleBlue]

37. Mental health must be treated as seriously as physical health

We give people physicals, preventative care, evaluations, tests, all of this to anticipate problems before they happen.

Unfortunately mental health care is still viewed through the early 20th century viewpoint: an embarrassing last resort when you're "crazy". The truth is that we need mental health care as much as physical health care, but it's viewed as such a stigma that we can't acknowledge this.

[Neoma]

38. Except that the mentally ill are only as violent as people who are not mentally ill.

Being mentally ill DOES NOT EQUAL being a violent lunatic. All this case does is stigmatize people with mental illnesses. Because obviously every person who needs help are violent!

[joeybee12]

41. Any mods going to lock this? Guns are off-topic here at GD I've been told...

So this pro-gun OP should have been locked immediately, IMHO.

[bettyellen]

49. Please don't make it about that, I beg you. I wish no one had guns, but agree this is an important

and difficult topic that needs to be discussed despite the NRAs encouragement to focus on it.

[Neoma]

52. It's focused on for all the wrong reasons though.

[bettyellen]

54. that doesn't really matter why, since there is a mental health crises in our country.

I can walk and chew gum. It should not about siding against gun lovers, but about the health of so many in of our communities being neglected.

[Neoma]

55. It's a problem, but focusing on it because apparently all of the mentally ill are violent...

Is only going to scare people who do need help, and have us all go in the closet for having an illness.

[bettyellen]

56. Ignoring it encourages families to "go in the closet", instead of getting help too. And too many

of the mentally ill cannot go it alone. The impact on families is great too. I understand your concerns, but the biggest problems are way worse than concerns over stigma. Increasing care and understanding should help diminish the stigma. Keeping mum about it doesn't help very much.

[Neoma]

58. I'm not saying do nothing about it!

You act as if I am!

No, I'm only asking that we don't blatantly stereotype a group that is never in a good position to defend themselves.

[bettyellen]

63. I understand, but also will not apologize about posting as to my own experiences or share my

disappointment that so little has improved in mental health care over the years. I am all about removing the stigma.
And god knows if I would be alive if we had guns in the home growing up, I hate to even speculate.

[joeybee12]

57. Sorry, it is about guns...if it had been posted Tuesday you'd have a point...

But it's posted right after another senseless tragedy due to the proliferation of guns...it's nothing more than an NRA-backed diversion to the real cause of these deaths.

[bettyellen]

60. I think if you post Tuesday or Sunday it doesn't matter. I hate the NRA and can set it aside for a

moment to try and have an honest discussion about it, while perople on both sides of the gun debate are appalled by this tregedy.
Part of it is why the fuck didn't they know or have concerns about his recent gun purchases? Why are people falling through the cracks while their families look on in horror.

[joeybee12]

61. I agree the discussion needs to be made...

But look at the OP's other posts in this thread...comparing guns to knives...to me, it's blatant what he/she is trying to do.

[bettyellen]

68. Yeah, I am ignoring that knife BS. Same old same old.

[joeybee12]

69. Happens all the time here after a senseless tragedy...

It's getting pretty old...I'm pretty cranky too today and not in the mood for it!

[bettyellen]

70. I hear you. It is disppointing to see the NRA BS here for sure.

[JJChambers]

84. Are you serious?

This guy killed people with BOTH guns AND knives. We should pretend that he didn't kill people with knives because.. why? Because we want gun control?

Or maybe we can use this as a perfect opportunity to address something that needs to be addressed: fixing the abhorrent state of mental health care in our country. We have a MUCH better chance of fixing mental health care than we do of banning guns and knives.

[joeybee12]

95. Thank you Wayne LaPierre...thanks for revealing yourself..

So that I can put this and any future disgusting posts of yours on hide.

[JJChambers]

99. That's what I thought

[Neoma]

103. Actually, I would prefer banning guns and knives than locking up innocent non-violent people.

[Warren Stupidity]

87. When there is Yet Another Gun Outrage the gd hosts allow people to post about it in gd.

Also: nobody has alerted on it.

[moondust]

42. That you, Wayne?

[Blue_Roses]

43. Welcome to the world

of being a Social Worker/Mental Health Case Worker/Psychiatric care giver,etc.

As a Social Worker, I can honestly say the system is a joke. While strides have been made, there is a ton more to do. I've seen some slip through the cracks, only because they didn't fit the law's definition of what constituted a mental health issue. It seems unless the person "shows" their disability, like arms, legs, limbs, etc., falling off, then what's the big deal(?)

Denial is a big part of the problem. What you don't see doesn't exist. Once we start to address this problem from a mature, realistic perspective, then we might begin to get somewhere.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. Disarming them would be a good first step.

[woo me with science]

47. An inhumane society run by oligarchs,

in which human beings are perverted into "workers" running on a treadmill and kept continually desperate and uncertain about their ability to afford food, shelter, and care for their children and parents;

in which education is defunded and twisted into regurgitation for tests and debt traps;

in which health care is permitted to exist as a profit-seeking industry with a motive to create loopholes and deny care;

in which war is valued over investment in human beings, and in which we are continually lectured that "working hard" is more important than time and relationships with our family and neighbors...

in which isolation is bred by a cynical, soul-sucking media machine, ridiculously long work hours, and the systematic elimination of free and accessible public spaces to gather and enjoy one another...

All of this breeds mental illness.

The single most important step we can take toward addressing mental illness will be to wrest this nation back from the sociopathic, human-farming corporate forces that have commandeered it, and return it to the people to build something more humane and respectful of human life and dignity.

[upaloopa]

51. You seem to be the expert. Mentally ill people

Have the same civil rights as you do. With in that frame work you tell me what we should do.
We use to force people to spend the rest of their lives in a mental institution. Now we try to a avoid that by treating them in the community. Unless they are KNOWN to be a treat to themselves or others it is the person's choice to seek help or not.
My opinion is that we are so misinformed about mental illness that we can't discuss this intelligently. The system hasn't failed.

[Neoma]

53. Hear, hear!

Btw:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024998255

[cali]

66. this is a sad, sad and ignorant op.

first off, all indications are that Eliot was a sociopath/psychopath. There are no effective medications. Secondly, the mentally ill are far more often the victims of violence than the perpetrators of it.

I could go on and on, but I won't. I'll simply say I'm sorry to see such gross ignorance parading as knowledge.

Ugh and double ugh.

[JJChambers]

85. So what do you suggest we do?

When we are warned of a sociopath/psychopath who is exhibiting signs of homicidal intent, but hasn't actually done anything yet, as was the case with Mr. Elliot?

[Neoma]

97. Take him to the hospital like anyone else in that situation.

Have professionals determine his illness and leave other perfectly non-violent sick people alone!

[cali]

105. threats are against the law. In my eyes, he should have been arrested.

[thucythucy]

72. A few examples of people "committing violent crimes" and then being set free are in order here.

"We see it time after time: a mentally ill person commits a violent crime and is sent to the state hospital for a short period of time, just long enough for the doctors there to medicate the person, document a positive response to the medication, and then that person is released...."

A few recent examples of this might help the discussion. Of course, you have such examples, yes?

[Jamastiene]

73. You aren't going to do a goddamn thing with me.

See, I am one of "the mentally ill." I have never shot anyone, murdered anyone, or shot and murdered anyone. I am not violent, and neither are most "the mentally ill" you casually all lump in together as one big murderous bunch of people.

Instead, what you need to do is learn the difference between "the mentally ill" and mass murdering gun toting fuckhead. You supposedly sane people with guns need to own up to the killers among you and quit trying to push this off on "the mentally ill," who are more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators of it or gay people or whoever else you want to point at and ask what to "do with" those people...because you aren't going to do a goddamn thing with me. You don't have that right with or without your guns pointed in my face.

[Neoma]

74. +100.

Ditto to that.

[RandySF]

78. Every day here in San Francisco......

I see mentally ill on the streets rolling in their own filth, grabbing pedestrians, pulling their pants down on sidewalks and all I hear (mostly from progressives in the city) is that they should not be compelled to receive treatment. But without treatment, they don't have the capacity to seek the help they need on their own, and wind up remaining homeless.

[bravenak]

81. Another talking point.

I heard the head of the NRA use these same talking points.
I blame access to deadly, easy to use, firearms. Not everyone should have one.
If he had used throwing knives or ninja stars, we'd have fewer victims in this case. Eventually we are going to have to do something about this problem.

The mentally ill are usually the victims of crime not the criminals. They are prey for evil people.
This is an example of how society scapegoats people. Blaming our violent society on the least fortunate, the powerless.
Somebody last night decided to blame it on the Gays. Disgusting.
Maybe next it will be the blacks or jews or asians or hispanics or video games. Anything but the easy access to guns and hate for women.


We sound like a bunch of republicans with these posts.


You should cut it out.

[YoungDemCA]

83. +1

Well said.

[nomorenomore08]

93. +2

[adirondacker]

104. +1000! nt

[steve2470]

98. The mentally ill are not the problem

There's just too many guns and our culture is far too violent.

[Bjorn Against]

100. Most violent crimes are committed by people who are not mentally ill

What we need to do is restrict access to guns, not try to blame a minority group for all the gun violence.

[Crunchy Frog]

102. But what we must absolutely never do

is put up any impediments to such people obtaining whatever kinds of firearms they may want.

We must not even discuss such an abomination.

[ecstatic]

107. what we shouldn't do is make Rodgers a celebrity

Ughh..I hate to even write his name... This guy is receiving millions of hits to his yt channel, millions of people reading all 140 pages of his screed,etc. How many hundreds (thousands?) of new killers has this episode created? I get it, we're all curious to learn more about him, but we're inadvertently inspiring new gunmen.