I target shoot! I have a 22 , and a 9mm .

[imthevicar]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Autumn (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I am unapologetic about this. Yes I consider myself a economic Keynesian, Yes i believe in social justice, and yes i support most of the progressive agenda save this one issue. I like target shooting. I find it stress relieving, I like to feel safe in my home. I like and respect the second amendment. So in this one aspect alone I sit outside the democratic party group. If the Democratic party could take one sensible position on this issue, Just one, and stick to that line in the sand, It would have much more support from people like me who believe that the right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed. Instead they continuously move the goalpost to disarmament of the people and reinforcement of the police state. Their has to be a middle way. Otherwise the Party has missed the boat on this. Heads will explode and the insults begin in 3...2..1.

[WinkyDink]

1. So, how many times a month DOES your well-regulated militia division meet?

[Lurks Often]

10. So how many times are you going to trot out that lie?

The President, the Supreme Court (by a vote of 8-1) and all reputable constitutional scholars recognize that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right.

[oldhippie]

13. Give SCOTUS a call and ask them...

... if that is relevant to the issue.

[hack89]

62. Perhaps you should check out the Democratic Party platform first?

You are a little out of step.

[aikoaiko]

2. I think you clocked that one in at post #223.

[SevenSixtyTwo]

3. I'm with you

100%.

[JJChambers]

4. I would wager a huge portion of DUers are also gun owners

[el_bryanto]

5. What if your gun were held at the target range

You had access to it there when you wanted to shoot but not at home? would that be acceptable? And if not, why not?

Bryant

[JJChambers]

11. He just said he also has it to feel safe

[NutmegYankee]

68. If you have to store property off site, it isn't actually property.

You are just renting it. The main reason, beyond the fact that ranges may not be available in many portions of the country, is that most are not equipped to store arms. There are almost no public ranges in Conn. If you want to target shoot or hunt like myself, you joint a nonprofit sportsman club. The club has ranges and 150 acres of land for deer hunting. But the clubhouse is just a single story building with meeting hall, kitchen and bathroom. The only other structure is the shotgun shack, where the clay pigeons are stored, and it's basically a shed with an outdoor accessible bathroom.

Another reason is that firearms need maintenance, such as cleaning. This is best done at home where you can dissemble the gun and if needed replace wear items like springs.

[Crunchy Frog]

6. Got something you need to compensate for?

Or maybe not got it?

[oldhippie]

14. Six posts until the ...

... first penis crack. You guys are slipping.

[imthevicar]

18. SNORT!

[Crunchy Frog]

22. I didn't mention penises, but you did.

Are you saying that's what you're compensating for? I'm very sorry to hear about your inadequacy.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

25. Then what would be the proper interpretation of your original comment?

[Crunchy Frog]

27. It's a Rorschach.

I'm just trying to elicit whatever's already in your mind.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

34. But you're the one with all the dirty pictures.

[Crunchy Frog]

55. You have a crack in your penis?

No wonder you need to compensate.

[840high]

80. Unrec.

[Gravitycollapse]

7. When you board a plane, do you wear scuba gear?

I don't have much of a legal argument against guns in your home. I just think you are selectively preparing for events which are extremely unlikely to occur. The nature of your selectiveness speaks to your underlying mentality.

[Crunchy Frog]

29. Really?

Did he try to walk into your house and try to make off with your guns?

[Gravitycollapse]

31. Did you reply to me by accident?

Because your post makes no sense relative to mine.

[Crunchy Frog]

61. Yes. It was a reply to post #23.

I don't know how it ended up as a reply to your post. A poster accusing another poster of trying to take his guns.

I guess that's what I get for replying on an ipad.

[Old Codger]

35. One thing about it

You may in fact never need that gun at home, and I hope you don't BUT if you do happen to have a need for it there is no substitute. Nothing else will fill that need

I have no real idea why i bother reading any threads about guns just end up enlarging my ignore list

[Gravitycollapse]

42. You almost certainly never will need it. Which is my point...

Extraordinary preparation for incredibly unlikely events speaks to the nature of your selectiveness. I'm not saying you can't prepare if you want. But I just am left wondering why you aren't preparing for all of the other events which are incredibly unlikely to occur.

[Old Codger]

56. Well now

I live in the mountains we have Bears, Cougars(the 4 legged fanged kind) and they do come down out of the hills looking for food now and then, in the spring they break into storage sheds quite often ...I have in fact needed a gun several times over the last 20 years or so.. have nit had to actually shoot anything yet but when yelling "shoo" and "scat" and"beat it " didn't work a shot or 2 into the air or into the ground near them pretty much does the trick..

[Gravitycollapse]

67. If you've never shot it, you never needed it. Animals aren't scared of you wielding a gun.

So, in 20 years, you've never needed the firearm. You spent 20 years with a dangerous weapon around unnecessarily.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

41. There are roughly 4.5 million auto accidents annually.

But over 12 million people are arrested for violent crime, that's NOT counting those who successfully evade arrest.

Wearing a seatbelt is still a good policy even though it has a substantially lower chance of occurrence.

[Gravitycollapse]

48. A seatbelt doesn't shoot bullets.

Again, I'm not arguing the legality of gun ownership. I don't think a compelling legal or ethical argument exists to confiscate guns. But I also think there isn't much of an argument for owning a firearm as protection. And, in fact, there is no compelling statistical evidence either.

By the way, my vehicle has no seatbelt.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

53. "A seatbelt doesn't shoot bullets."

That's why it makes such a poor choice when confronted by a violent criminal.

I also think there isn't much of an argument for owning a firearm as protection. And, in fact, there is no compelling statistical evidence either.

The Bureau of Justice statistics in the late 1990's estimated 700,000 defensive gun uses annually. Some criminologists estimate the number to be in the millions.

Beyond that, self-defense is a human right.

[Gravitycollapse]

59. Like I said, I'm not making a legal argument against guns. I'm saying they won't make you safer...

http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1814426

We performed a systematic review and meta-analysis of all studies that compared the odds of suicide or homicide victimization between persons with and without reported firearm access. All but 1 of the 16 studies identified in this review reported significantly increased odds of death associated with firearm access. We found strong evidence for increased odds of suicide among persons with access to firearms compared with those without access (OR, 3.24 [CI, 2.41 to 4.40]) and moderate evidence for an attenuated increased odds of homicide victimization when persons with and without access to firearms were compared (OR, 2.00 [CI, 1.56 to 3.02]).

[Nuclear Unicorn]

69. Well, anti-RKBA prefer studies done by doctors. Pro-RKBA prefer studies done by criminalogists.

People confronted by violent criminals often prefer a means to compel the attack to end. Self-defense is a human right.

[Gravitycollapse]

71. You have every right to self-defense. You, however, don't have a right to construct your own facts.

Owning a firearm does not make you safer. There is in fact a large body of evidence demonstrating that it makes you less safe. Largely because the odds of ever needing to use the firearm are incredibly low. Yet, the amount of time you expose yourself and those around you to a deadly weapon presents a system of high potential for danger that you knowingly participate in in order to prevent another danger which is much less likely to pan out.

Wallpaper your house with firearms for all I care. Just don't think you're any safer because you aren't.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

76. Guns do not make people homicidal or suicidal. That is a fact.

Largely because the odds of ever needing to use the firearm are incredibly low.

4.5 million auto accidents vs. more than 12 million violent crimes.

the amount of time you expose yourself and those around you to a deadly weapon presents a system of high potential for danger that you knowingly participate in in order to prevent another danger which is much less likely to pan out.

That makes no sense. We're talking about an inanimate object, not some automaton.

[Gravitycollapse]

77. At the very least, the existence of a deadly weapon decreases inhibition to violence...

The firearm is not taking action. But it does have an effect.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

81. Nonsense. Firearm ownership is increasing while gun violence is decreasing.

That's like saying access to condoms encourages sex.

[Gravitycollapse]

85. I can only hope condom access encourages sex.

More sex, less guns.

[Logical]

75. He made up those numbers. n-t

[Nuclear Unicorn]

83. She

[Logical]

73. Where did you make that data from? Or are you just making shit up?

In 2012, an estimated 1,214,462 violent crimes occurred nationwide

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/violent-crime/violent-crime

10.8 Million Auto Accidents in 2009

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s1103.pdf

So your BS was off by a factor of 20. And you flat out lied.

You had to know your numbers were wrong yet you posted them.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

79. .

For 2012, law enforcement made approximately 12,200,000 arrests nationally

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

I wrote --

But over 12 million people are arrested for violent crime

Admittedly, the "for violent crime" was precipitous. However, in fairness if I was truly off by a factor of 20 as you state then 1.2 million violent crimes would require 24 million auto accidents. I guess we're both human.

[Logical]

89. You lied about the violent crimes and are still wrong on the factor.......

You said 4.5 million car accidents and 12 million violent crime. That is a factor of 2.6 violent crimes to accidents. Which was the point of your post.

The real data is 10.8 million car accidents to 1.2 million violent crimes. Which is .12 violent crimes to accidents.

Get it now??? Way off!

Edit your original post.

[treestar]

8. I don't care if people lose their target shooting hobby

If we could get all the guns off the streets. Hunting, OK, but the rest - it's too dangerous. We don't know that you're not the one who will snap.

[imthevicar]

20. So I'm Guilty before proven innocent.

That's some dangerous ground.

[JaneyVee]

9. Who is trying to take your guns away?

[Gravitycollapse]

15. Them.

http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/jt0f3j/the-10-31-project

[Nuclear Unicorn]

23. The guy that posted just above you.

[pa28]

36. Oops. Might have been the wrong place to post that comment.

[Taitertots]

30. Literally hundreds of posters on DU n/t

[AAO]

12. Can you cite any relevent laws passed by democrats that took away your "freedom"?

A link making some kind of case? I've never heard a democrat that didn't support the entire constitution, unlike the one issue people on the right. When you really care to learn the truth, it's easy to find.

[itsrobert]

54. Don't be silly

He's not going to answer this.

[bravenak]

16. Whatever.

I'm on my way to get your gun, look out of the window.
Me and Obama in our spandex superhero outfits.


Everytime a maniac shoots up some folks, theres always some dude worried about somebody coming to take his gun.
Nobody ever shows up to steal their guns.
But every time they are so fearful.
Appears to me Obama EXPANDED gun rights against his better judgement. Letting them into national parks.
But still, some dude swears gun are being taken and that they would 'support' the 'party' more if we stopped 'infringing' on their gun rights.

Please tell me what gun rights were taken from you? Nobody can ever tell me which guns Obama took from their house.
I want the names of the stolen guns and the gun right that was taken away.

Which gun was taken from you, and what was the reason given?
Which right was infringed upon and by whom?
Thanks in advance, i am lost.
Nobody came for my gun and i want to know why.

[AAO]

19. Cuz you're a dem. We only go after,... oops (almost blew our cover).

[bravenak]

24. I figured as much.

I guess we'll find out where the guns went when we all get resettled into our fema camps awaiting our turn at the death panel. Benghazi!

[AAO]

26. Heil Benghazi!!!

[etherealtruth]

47. May I help .... but NOT wear spandex?

I am 52 and I can assure you NO-ONE wants to see me in spandex.

[bravenak]

57. Sure, but you have to bring snacks.

And i was thinking that we should use ironman suits instead of spandex any way. I want to be able to fly from house to house and i don't want to be exposed to all the elements.

You know, i only really want to take guns from the ones who think i'm going to take their guns.

Paranoia and guns don't mix well as far as i am concerned.

[etherealtruth]

60. I'm taking them all ... just for spite

OK, I will bring snacks ... we can use the bag to carry away ALL of the guns

[bravenak]

72. Do we sort them out first or just throw them all into the volcano like we planned?

I say just chuck them all in and let the gods sort it out. What about ammo? We should take that too just to be on the safe side.
You got me excited, now i want to take more stuff!! Bombs, plastic explosives, grenades, lets take it all and put resistors into fema camps in the desert. We can build a 'border fence' between us and them.

[imthevicar]

17. Heads will explode and the insults begin in 3...2..1.

Boom! Wow lots of hate out their. Thank you for you vilification. I knew you wouldn't let me down.

[AAO]

21. Hate? How about confusion as to what the hell you're yapping about.

[boston bean]

28. Why don't gun lovers ever come up with a solution?

The solution is always more guns. No thank you!

[Taitertots]

33. Why don't prohibitionists come up with a solution that has widespread support? n/t

[Duckhunter935]

44. we gun owners have offered

many solutions, the other side just dismisses them out of hand as there is not some kind of ban attached.

[Nevernose]

86. So what ate they?

I keep waiting.

[Old Codger]

45. I am one

And I am all for all gun sales being only to people who can pass a stringent background check, I would be ok with a realistic way to register all guns, I would also be ok with training classes that had requirements steep enough to winnow out the dangerous ones, but need a realistic line drawn on that...
They have instant background checks available, they are used here in Oregon, if I want to sell a gun privately I take the time to have it done...

Some of the best friends of the gun and ammo companies are right here spouting their stuff about banning all guns, they idiots on the right see that stuff and decide ,"hey they want my guns better go buy some more.

When someone started the rumor when Obama got in that he was going to take guns, or ban semi-auto guns they ran out an bought all the ruger 10-22's they could find that drove the price of those guns right straight up then since they had all those 22's they needed ammo, now you cannot buy 22 ammo hardly at all, it is sold out as soon as the stores get any in.. Who do you suppose profited the most out of that rumor?

The driving force behind all of that is unnecessary fear and idiocy but money is being made hand over fist by someone.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

88. The NICS, which is employed for background checks prior to a firearms sale, is a legacy of

the Brady Campaign. Many pro-RKBA advocates would like the NICS to be accessible during private sales. The other alternative for universal background checks would be to make all sales pass through a licensed dealer which in turn generates revenue for the gun lobby.

[JanMichael]

32. so what

my god. Who cares. Where are you from?

We live in the South, and have lived in the midwest and west coast- most everyone we know owns guns.

We just don't know anyone who is so insecure that they need to post about them.

[dflprincess]

37. I like to feel safe in my home - which is why I have no guns in it.

and not once in my 60 years have I ever thought I might feel safer if I only had a gun.

[SevenSixtyTwo]

43. You must live in a nice neighborhood.

Around here, not so.

[hunter]

87. I could give you a walking tour of where people have been shot in my neighborhood.

Mostly it's gang-on-gang bullshit.

We used to live in a worse part of town where I kept the doors locked, and I played with our kids on the back bedroom floor whenever I heard gunshots nearby. I didn't figure having a gun handy would make me any safer.

I've been in some scary situations too, and there's never been a time a gun would have improved the outcome. Usually a gun turns something bad into something bloody, horrible, and much, much worse.

Around here guns are the reason people break into houses. The gangsters don't want your electronic crap and other toys, they want guns.

[LynneSin]

38. Do you feel you need to carry a gun on you just to visit a bank or buy coffee at Starbucks?

I have no issue with gun ownership. I come from a family of people who enjoyed deer hunting and other types of outdoor sporting activity. But one thing about my family. When they were done hunting they unloaded the guns, cleaned them up and locked them away in a cabinet. I think there is a handgun in the house but where it's hidden I don't know and not my business. But never has anyone in my family felt like they needed to carry a gun on them just to do basic day to day things around the town.

[Duckhunter935]

39. could not have said it better

the insults, name calling, and penis joke are sure to come.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. So, what's so bad with registration of all arms?

Is it an "infringement" or an inconvenience? Or, how about warehousing arms to be checked out for guys like you who like to target shoot or hunt? "Infringement" or inconvenience? Are people in in Europe, which generally have much stricter gun control laws, living in "police states"? If not, why not?

[hack89]

74. The Supreme Court says we have the right to own handguns in our homes for self defense

It is the only explicitly defined constitutional right regarding guns we presently have. So warehousing arms is a legal non-starter.

Registration is problematic on privacy grounds - that is why the ACLU opposes it. And how does registration stop gun violence? Criminals will use unregistered guns - there are presently 300 million of them. And it doesn't stop mass shootings -Lanza's guns were registered. And of course registration is irrelevant to the majority of gun deaths - suicides. Why do you think registration will make a difference?

[thucythucy]

82. The Supreme Court also says that money is speech

and Al Gore lost the 2000 election.

Just saying.

[Scootaloo]

46. In other words, your guns are as much "arms" to you as a golf club or frisbee

When I see the NRA picketing for the return of lawn darts, I'll give a shit about your argument, kay?

[hunter]

49. You are not allowed into my house with a gun.

I don't have any respect for you and your gun.

Have you tried archery?

Lead dust will make a person paranoid.

[MohRokTah]

50. I hear the Great Gun Grab happens November 4.

I think you should stay home all day to make sure yours don't get grabbed.

Do you get the idea I don't buy what you're sellin'?

[doc03]

51. Just how many guns have you lost in the last five years? What laws have the President or Congress

proposed that would have taken your 22 or 9mm away? Would banning 30 round magazines or requiring you to pass a
background check when buying a gun prevent you from having your target shooting guns?

[itsrobert]

52. He's not going to answer that

don't be silly.

[itsrobert]

58. What is the "one sensible position on the issue" that you propose the Democratic party take?

What could that be?

[MohRokTah]

63. I've got a better question for the OP

What is the "one sensible position on the issue" the Republicans have ever taken?

Bet the OP won't answer that one, either.

[Logical]

64. Wrong forum. n-t

[UTUSN]

65. What's NOT "sensible" about registration like a drivers' license or screening n/t

I don't expect an answer

[giftedgirl77]

66. So keep a gun in your house, there is no reason it

needs to be taken off your property. As far as target shooting, they can build storage to keep the weapons there. Obviously more control is needed & gun owners are not able to keep them secure on their own.

[Prophet 451]

70. I used to enjoy target shooting too

These days, I wouldn't be able to get a license (I'm British, a license is required to hold longarms here and handguns are outright banned) on grounds of mental instability. I support your right to keep and bear arms, I just ask for a few regulations. Specifically:
- Magazines limited to 15-rounds.
- A mandatory firearms safety test. The NRA would hate t which is ironic since much of the content would be lifted from their (rather good) safety classes. The way I have it figured, you take the test, get a card that says you're safe (good for ten years) and you have to show that card to buy a gun. I'm not bothered if the class is run by the NRA, your local sheriff or a private academy, so long as it teaches basic firearms safety. Someone on another thread suggested offering it as a high school class (in the same way as some schools do driver's ed) and I'm fine with that idea. Oh, and it would work like the driver's ed test. If you fail, you can just keep trying until you pass.
- Universal background check. That closes the gun show loophole that estimates say 40% of gun sales go through.
- No carrying a weapon when you're drinking. This should be a no-brainer. Drunk people with firearms leads to some poor slob getting shot for supporting the wrong team.
- Harsher penalties for holding a firearm illegally or selling illegally.
- Firearms trafficking statute with strong penalties.
- Federal buy-back program. The hope is that it would soak up some of the loose weapons on the street.
- Proper funding of teh list of people who may not legally own a firearm. This is teh list which teh background check system compares your name against and it's not properly funded.

That's eight measures, the same eight I've been proposing (with some minor alterations of language) in response to every firearms related tragedy for the last decade or so. Once those eight measures are met, I'll consider the matter settled until the march of technology makes these measures obsolete.

[Le Taz Hot]

78. Impeccable timing from the gun lovers . . .

as always.

[otohara]

84. Insults vs Death Threats, Spitting

you've got the gun, I'm not going to insult you even though I fucking hate guns and am glad I don't know anyone who owns them, that I know of.

They are horrific and I am embarrassed by my country and the never ending violence and so-called "accidental" shootings.

So glad my mom, ex-husband didn't have one, I'd be dead, my mother would have blown her brains out. Imagine finding your mother dead from a gunshot to the head as a little girl.

[Autumn]

90. Locking. This would be better posted in the gun group