Let me get this straight - how did we come to adopting a REPUBLICAN idea as our own?

[Zalatix]

Mandatory private corporation health insurance purchase laws were first birthed by Governor Mitt Romney in Massachusetts.

How did Democrats come to the point of arguing for this Republican-pioneered garbage?

[Cleita]

1. Because corporate DLC democrats are running our party or the Republican Lites.

We need to take back our party and our liberal views within the party.

[dflprincess]

3. Exactly. n/t

[Marr]

5. That's it in a nutshell. It was truly sickening to watch the Obama Administration

slowly shape this thing into the old Republican bailout plan, and nothing else. They started a few rhetorical bones to toss at working people (like the "public option&quot , and just slower plucked each one out, one by one, until they had their corporate fraud scheme.

[RC]

4. We have some DLC, (Republican Lite) here, not supporting Liberal/Progressive programs.

Health Care vouchers anyone? No problem with Social Security being funded from the General Fund? To name just two.
Why be a Republican when you can be a DLC Democrat? Then you can safely distance yourself from the silly and dangerous, Clown Car occupants and wanna be's and still gently push ever Rightward on DU.

[Phlem]

11. No kidding!

I was just in a thread that had a bunch of republican apologists in it here in DU. Things have shifted to the right here and I didn't even see it happen.

-p

[great white snark]

28. We also have people here who just throw out labels for people who disagree with them.

DLC or Republican lite if you question or just don't like something you deem to be Liberal? Isn't that Republican lockstep tactics?

It's been the big tent party since long before you joined.

[RC]

54. Well, when you defend right of center political ideals, that kinda makes one

suspect now doesn't it?
BTY, DLC it is much more that just a label. They are the ones that removed "Liberal/Progressive" from the Democratic Party.
The Democratic Party is only "Liberal/Progressive" in comparison to the current Republican party. Compare today's run-of-the-mill Democrats in Congress to past Republican Congresses, before Clinton. Republicans were just as, or more liberal than, today's Democratic Party. That is a fact. It is amazing what has happen in 30 years.
The last good Republican President was Eisenhower (1953 until 1961). He left office over 40 years ago and this country has been moving farther Rightward ever since.

[Phlem]

55. Well

For as big a tent as we have, I do believe that " Isn't that Republican lockstep tactics? " is why we are where we are today.

-p

[Cleita]

67. No, that's what the right wing does.

The Democratic Leadership Council are business backed, right of center registered Democrats. They have a website that pretty much touts the old Republican line before they were taken over by the Tea Party wackos. Their membership roster is many of our elected officials in office today and thence the label of DLC Democrats. In Eisenhower's day they would have been Republicans because those are the policies that they stand for. Liberals do not hang labels on people without knowing what the definition of that label is.

[wordpix]

65. and now O & Salazar are saying we need to explore for oil off the VA coast

so if oil is found, we can have a BP-style oil spew all over the mid-Atlantic. I agree, the Dems act way too much like R's and it's the legalized bribery that does it.

[Deep13]

2. Because not having it is worse. nt

[FarCenter]

6. Because MA Dems had supported it, and Congressional Dems were verklempt for Teddy

Years ago Kennedy had arrived at the compromise for private health insurance so long as it was mandatory for all. This was part of the reason why it pass with great bipartisan support in Massachusetts.

Summer of 2009, the Congress was overcome with sentimentality for the "Lion of the Senate" and all that bullshit. So they passed it as a tribute to the great man.

[zanana1]

37. And Mitt used to be a moderate Republican. nt

[ProSense]

7. It's a

"Let me get this straight - how did we come to adopting a REPUBLICAN idea as our own?"

...strategic argument similar to RomneyCare. Mandates have been a part of every plan. Clinton opted for an employer/individual mandate.

http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/13/2/105.full.pdf

[MannyGoldstein]

9. Indeed. Candidate Obama made it clear he favored mandates

and that a public option was off the table.

The far left just didn't listen when Candidate Obama was saying this.

In fact, nobody was listening. Nobody at all. He apparently said it while alone in a sealed room or some such thing.

[ProSense]

10. Doesn't matter

Indeed. Candidate Obama made it clear he favored mandates

and that a public option was off the table.

The far left just didn't listen when Candidate Obama was saying this.

In fact, nobody was listening. Nobody at all. He apparently said it while alone in a sealed room or some such thing.

Clinton's plan in the 90s included a mandate. Nixon's did. The other 2008 candidates' plan did.

[MannyGoldstein]

12. Doesn't matter

That pretty well sums up the Third Way's position on any traditional Democratic value.

Thanks for your forthrightness.

[ProSense]

14. No

Doesn't matter

That pretty well sums up the Third Way's position on any traditional Democratic value.

Thanks for your forthrightness..

...Third Way doesn't own the phrase "doesn't matter."

[MannyGoldstein]

15. Yes

that's their standard response to all betrayals.

They stand for nothing. Their word means nothing.

[ProSense]

16. Evidently,

"Yes that's their standard response to all betrayels.

They stand for nothing. Their word means nothing. "

...you're following their lead.

[MannyGoldstein]

17. And what's your basis for that?

Have at it.

[Marr]

30. Oh, they stand for something.

They stand for the Team. What the team is actually *doing*... well, that Doesn't Matter©.

[Faryn Balyncd]

26. Well, if it's good enough for Nixon, then that settles it!

Who cares what we worked our asses off for in 2008, anyway?

"Doesn't matter"!!!!!

[ProSense]

48. Of course,

"Well, if it's good enough for Nixon, then that settles it!"

...he was the last liberal President, far to the left of Obama. Remember?

[HiPointDem]

63. Nixon's plan didn't include a mandate.

Upon adoption of appropriate Federal and State legislation, the Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan would offer to every American the same broad and balanced health protection through one of three major programs:

--Employee Health Insurance, covering most Americans and offered at their place of employment, with the cost to be shared by the employer and employee on a basis which would prevent excessive burdens on either;

--Assisted Health Insurance, covering low-income persons, and persons who would be ineligible for the other two programs, with Federal and State government paying those costs beyond the means of the individual who is insured; and,

--An improved Medicare Plan, covering those 65 and over and offered through a Medicare system that is modified to include additional, needed benefits.

One of these three plans would be available to every American, but for everyone, participation in the program would be voluntary.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/September/03/nixon-proposal.aspx

[dionysus]

25. please. single payer is the ultimate mandate. the problem isn't mandates, the problem is

eliminating the juggernaut industry of insurance, which you claim, over and over and over and over again, that obama somehow loves.

the facts, however, is that the Dem controller House even had to drastically water down their public option, to even get that passed, and it couldn't pass the senate. Berrnie sanders, who i trust, said there was maybe, 5, 10 at most dem votes in the Senate for single payer. the votes were never there for either, not even remotely close. and to this day you blame Obama for it. it's tiresome at this point.

what we got was anemic, but has things we can build on.

so what exactly is up with the constant obama sucks, all the time crap? really. many people see right through this shit.

[eomer]

41. For the public option, 50 votes were reportedly there or very close to it.

And that's with the President working against it. If he had worked for it and used all the carrots and sticks at his disposal then I believe the votes were there. Not for single payer, granted, but yes for the public option.

[dionysus]

64. bullshit. w had 6 blue dogs plus lieberman of which more than one were ready to fillibuster the PO.

[eomer]

66. The final bill passed 56 to 43. It was a reconciliation bill and could not be filibustered.

Republicans and Lieberman would have stopped it if they could but because Democrats used the budget reconciliation process it could not be filibustered and therefore required just 50 Senators, not 60.

They could have added the public option to this bill, they just chose not to.

[sabrina 1]

69. Stop, you're not supposed to remind people that the Dems COULD pass something

when they wanted to!

[Warren Stupidity]

40. "the far left"

Try being a bit more openly insulting.

Who said this:

The plans you are discussing embody my core belief that Americans should have better choices for health insurance, building on the principle that if they like the coverage they have now, they can keep it, while seeing their costs lowered as our reforms take hold. But for those who don't have such options, I agree that we should create a health insurance exchange -- a market where Americans can one-stop shop for a health care plan, compare benefits and prices, and choose the plan that's best for them, in the same way that Members of Congress and their families can. None of these plans should deny coverage on the basis of a preexisting condition, and all of these plans should include an affordable basic benefit package that includes prevention, and protection against catastrophic costs. I strongly believe that Americans should have the choice of a public health insurance option operating alongside private plans. This will give them a better range of choices, make the health care market more competitive, and keep insurance companies honest.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Letter-from-President-Obama-to-Chairmen-Edward-M-Kennedy-and-Max-Baucus/

[MannyGoldstein]

42. I was being sarcastic, sorry

it was pretty dry.

[Warren Stupidity]

57. I thought it was odd coming from you but at this point

I can't tell parody from the real thing.

[MannyGoldstein]

58. As you say...

...hard to tell parody from reality these days.

[Phlem]

56. Well I heard

"bipartisanship" loud and clear during his acceptance speech and felt depressed immediately. Me thinks a lot of people weren't really paying attention. Fascinating how it's absent in his dialogue while campaigning for his second term.

-p

[bighughdiehl]

8. It seems....

to be part of the general rightward shift in this country the past 30 years.
The "True Conservative" idea now is to just do jack shit.
In a couple years the "True Conservative" idea will be
to just round up and shoot uninsured people. I do not even know if
I am kidding. Hey, it would explain the recent DHS 450 million
hollowpoint bullets purchase.

[bart95]

13. same reason we drink all the 'free trade' kool-aid

same flakes, different box

[Zalatix]

19. LOL!! Well said!

[provis99]

18. worse; we are adopting the Heritage Foundation's health care plan.

[Zalatix]

20. Woah, I didn't think it was THAT bad.

They proposed this shit? Do tell, I'd love to see the details.

[provis99]

24. here are a couple of good links:

this one gives a whole history since the Clinton health care debacle in the 1990's
http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004182

and here's a link to the Heritage Foundation's 1992 plan:
http://healthcarereform.procon.org/sourcefiles/1992_heritage_consumer_choice_health_plan.pdf

[Zalatix]

33. Holy cripes. I'm seriously going to use this. A lot.

Thanks for the information!

[Kablooie]

21. We adopted that so the Republicans would support a new health plan.

Well, that worked out well, didn't it?

[krispos42]

22. It's the current 2-party system.

We have a moderate right-wing party, and a far-right-wing nutjob party.

[TorchTheWitch]

23. because someone with a D after their name proposed it

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. It's also how we get all kinds of repub shit praised by dems when it's proposed by someone with a D after their name. Politics as sport. R vs. D. Policies don't matter a damn anymore. It's all just a big game, and neither side has any interest in fixing fundamental problems... why would the ones at the top and in control want to do that when the R vs. D games work in their favor?

[On the Road]

27. Because Ted Kennedy Said That He Regretted

NOT making a deal with Nixon for a similar plan involving

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/blogs/the-gaggle/2009/08/26/echoes-of-kennedy-s-battle-with-nixon-in-health-care-debate.html

Plus the fact that Clinton's single-payer proposal was defeated, and the political spectrum has moved significantly to the right since then.

[HiPointDem]

35. Most people favor single-payer.

[On the Road]

59. That Might be True, but That Was Supposedly True in the Early 90s

The political climate is worse now. If single payer is doable, how come it can't get past Congress?

[HiPointDem]

61. I think the answer to that is obvious, & demonstrated in the fact that the Democrats are pushing

a health-care reform originally sponsored by the Heritage Foundation.

[On the Road]

71. Your Interpretation is Obvious

To understand the strategy of 'the 'Democrats', you might want to ask them or hear what they had to say about it.

Unless, of course, you believe they're all serial liars and no one has broken ranks. If so, why are you are a Democrat? And if not, why are you on Democratic Underground?

[HiPointDem]

73. I meant that the people who fund politics want the mandate. Seems like you took it a different

way.

[Faryn Balyncd]

29. The RW strategy is to manuever Democrats into passing (& then getting blamed for) Republican policy

[chnoutte]

39. Blaming it on the GOP is 100% BS

Sadly Obama and the Blue Dogs gave us this turd of a mandate.

We need to face the fact the Dems own the mandate now and will be responsible for pissing off a whole bunch of voters who were and are 100% against a mandate to purchase a private product.

The way things are going with the Democrats, I would not be surprised to see SS and Medicare go next, it has already been put on the table a few times, one of these days the GOP is going to pick it up and kill both programs with the help of their like-minded Democratic pals.

[99th_Monkey]

31. Because Prez. Hope & Change says so. Got it?

I'm still hoping Prez 2nd term hope and change will wax strong for single-payer,
once SCOTUS kills Romney/ObamaCare. He can then say "hey, SCOTUS made me do
it".

[SomethingFishy]

32. Actually it was the Heritage Foundation that came up with

the "individual mandate". It was in response to the Clinton health care plan. Romney adopted it for Mass...

And I too have been scratching my head as Democrats cheer it and Republicans vilify it.

[HiPointDem]

34. On edit: I see I *am* wrong about Gingrich originating the mandate. Heritage it is.

History of the Individual Health Insurance Mandate, 1989-2010
Republican Origins of Democratic Health Care Provision

Heritage Foundation's 1989 report is considered to be the conceptual origin of the health insurance mandate.

The concept of the individual health insurance mandate is considered to have originated in 1989 at the conservative Heritage Foundation. In 1993, Republicans twice introduced health care bills that contained an individual health insurance mandate. Advocates for those bills included prominent Republicans who today oppose the mandate including Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Charles Grassley (R-IA), Robert Bennett (R-UT), and Christopher Bond (R-MO). In 2007, Democrats and Republicans introduced a bi-partisan bill containing the mandate.

In 2008, then presidential candidate Barack Obama was opposed to the individual mandate. He stated the following in a Feb. 28, 2008 interview on the Ellen DeGeneres show about his divergent views with Hillary Clinton:

"Both of us want to provide health care to all Americans. There’s a slight difference, and her plan is a good one. But, she mandates that everybody buy health care. She’d have the government force every individual to buy insurance and I don’t have such a mandate because I don’t think the problem is that people don’t want health insurance, it’s that they can’t afford it..

http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004182


It really *is* a Barnum and Bailey world, isn't it?

Both sides of our so-called "political spectrum" want the mandate. When it's the Republicans turn, they put it out and the Democrats are against it. Give people time to forget where it came from and the Democrats put it up and the Republicans are supposedly against it.

But one way or another, the ruling class will get their mandate. They just keep pushing until they get what they want, using psy-ops to sell it to us.

[joeybee12]

36. It goes farther back than that...Nixon proposed it, Dole pushed it in 1993..

It makes some sense ONLY with a public option, without it, absolutley no sense.

[HiPointDem]

62. Nixon's plan was actually better:

Upon adoption of appropriate Federal and State legislation, the Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan would offer to every American the same broad and balanced health protection through one of three major programs:

--Employee Health Insurance, covering most Americans and offered at their place of employment, with the cost to be shared by the employer and employee on a basis which would prevent excessive burdens on either;

--Assisted Health Insurance, covering low-income persons, and persons who would be ineligible for the other two programs, with Federal and State government paying those costs beyond the means of the individual who is insured; and,

--An improved Medicare Plan, covering those 65 and over and offered through a Medicare system that is modified to include additional, needed benefits.

One of these three plans would be available to every American, but for everyone, participation in the program would be voluntary.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/September/03/nixon-proposal.aspx

[chnoutte]

38. Who is this we?

I had no say nor did over 70% of Americans who wanted single payer.

The corporations along with their political toadies who shoved it down our throats.

So we have a few choices....

1. Vote out and do not support corporate candidates, Blue Dogs, DLCers, Third Way, Conservadems, no matter who they are, bottom line is they are ALL pubs.

2. Take to the streets but unless people are willing to go all out, IMHO it is a waste of time, see OWS.

3. Do nothing but whine about it on the internet.

4. Just close your eyes and take it because unquestioning support of elected leaders directly leads to crap like this, having to purchase a private product with little price controls or oversight.

[Honeycombe8]

43. Because it helps people? What you call garbage will help alleviate suffering by millions.

Are you against helping anyone other than yourself?

[Motown_Johnny]

44. It was the only way to get anything through Congress

and even then it almost didn't make it.

[USArmyParatrooper]

45. It's rather simple.

The only way it's financially plausible for private insurance to cover people with preexisting conditions, remove coverage limits, etc. is if young, healthy people (who tend NOT to be insured) are included in the pool.

I get that single payer or a strong public option would be alternative methods to covering these people, but neither of those stood a chance in hell to break the filibuster.

[LaydeeBug]

46. Although Mitt Rmoney IMPLEMENTED it first, Hillary Clinton thought of it. nt

[DCBob]

47. What you call "garbage" will help millions of people get healthcare they did not have before.

[ProSense]

49. Who cares?

Kill the law and screw millions of low-income Americans who will no longer be eligible for Medicaid: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002496395

Kill it and screw people with pre-existing conditions.

Kill it and screw women lose out: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002497407

Not good enough!

Let's go back to nothing and hope for single payer!

That'll teach the insurance companies!

[hayrow1]

53. Oddly, your analysis is correct

As I believe the only way any modern nation can provide quality healthcare to it's citizens is via Socialized medicine and Socialized medical care, the real question is, does the Obama plan move the country towards the Socialized system quicker or slower than doing nothing? If Obamacare is a speed bump on the path to the inevitable, will hasten the inevitable, and provide a net advantage to those suffering, it could be a positive, although severely limited, law.

[TransitJohn]

51. Insurance does not equal care eom

n/t

[Marr]

52. No, health *insurance*.

Health care and health insurance are are not the same.

But who cares. The corporations got their hand-out and should be giving lots of money to our party functionaries in the years to come. That's what really matters.

[dflprincess]

70. There is nothing in this bill that guarantees access to health care

it only requires that we have "coverage".

Anyone with a high out of pocket insurance plan can tell you that they still can't afford to actually see a doctor. Currently the maximum deductible alllowed by law is $2500, with "coinsurance" payments until a person reaches a total of $5,950 out of pocket. Those numbers will go up annually. And those numbers are high enough to keep most people from seeking care. The insurance companies love to push these "consumer driven" plans because they are real money makers for them.

As for the "millions" who wil be added to Medicare. People are only eligible if there income is below 133% of the poverty level - sounds impressive until you do the math and figure out that the maximum income for a single person to qualify is a lousy $14,800. After that they may be able to get subsidies for their "insurance" but they'll have to come up with the premium first and claim what they paid out of pocket on their income tax return.

With or without the ACA the U.S. will remain a country where health care bankrupts people and where thousands die every year because they could not afford timely access to care.

And insurance company executive will laugh all the way to the bank.

[_ed_]

50. Individual Mandate came from Orrin Hatch in 1993

This just shows how far our politics have shifted. Obama is a center-right politician, and when he adopts Republican ideas from twenty years ago, now it seems like it's a liberal idea. The Dems will continue to shift further and further to the right as long as people keep defending "the new normal."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

60. Because the real bosses govern both parties.

Someone opined that we should just get rid of the middlemen (the politicians) and negotiate with the real bosses..the capitalists.

[Recursion]

68. Because it's the only way to have guaranteed-issue without unaffordable premiums for everyone

If you grant that full government provision was off the table (you may not agree with that, but that's the calculation Obama, Reid, and Pelosi made after actually talking with their caucuses), then the only way you can make guaranteed-issue (ie, no pre-existing conditions blocks) work without bankrupting all of us is some form of a mandate.

Oddly enough, Medicare doesn't have a mandate, which is why it can't be open enrollment year-round: if you don't enroll when you're first eligible you have to wait a while to enroll again. Same math.

[Curmudgeoness]

72. "We" did not adopt this.

We compromised on it to get it passed, and we hoped that it was just a first step toward single-payer coverage.

"We" (meaning me and many others) did not agree with this. We did not want it. We do not like it. Until we get single-payer, there are many of us Democrats who will not think that we have won....this is a lose for us.

[jeff47]

74. So follow through like a Republican

Take the other party's idea, pass it, and then corrupt the holy hell out of it to get what you want.

The evil terrible satanic mandate is a fantastic path to single-payer through a series of easy-to-do small steps.

Single-payer as a single event isn't going to happen in our lifetimes. But abusing the mandate can get it much, much sooner.