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WillyT

(72,631 posts)
Thu May 29, 2014, 07:14 PM May 2014

NSA Releases Snowden Email, Did He Tell NBC the Truth? - ABCNews

NSA Releases Snowden Email, Did He Tell NBC the Truth?
May 29, 2014
By LEE FERRAN - ABCNews

Edward Snowden said in a recent interview he tried to go through internal channels to raise his concerns about the National Security Agency’s surveillance programs before he slipped out of the country with a trove of secret documents. The NSA disagrees and says it has the email exchange to prove it.

“I actually did go through channels, and that is documented. The NSA has records, they have copies of emails right now to their Office of General Counsel, to their oversight and compliance folks from me raising concerns about the NSA’s interpretations of it – legal authorities,” Snowden told NBC News in a wide-ranging interview. “I reported that there were real problems with the way the NSA was interpreting its legal authorities. And I went even further in this, to say that they could be unconstitutional, that they were sort of abrogating our model of government in a way that empowered presidents to override our statutory laws. And this was made very clear. And the response was, more or less, in bureaucratic language, was, ‘You should stop asking questions.’”

In the interview, Snowden called on Congress to verify that the communications exist.

Today the NSA posted online the email exchange to which the government agency says it believes Snowden is referring. The exchange released by the NSA took place in early April, months after Snowden reportedly contacted journalists in preparation to expose the secret programs.


And...

Snowden told NBC News that he also raised his concerns with his co-workers and superiors, many of whom he said were “shocked” at the programs he described. In December 2013, Snowden similarly told The Washington Post he brought his misgivings to four supervisors in two departments.

“I asked these people, ‘What do you think the public would do if this was on the front page?’” Snowden told the Post. “How is that not reporting it? How is that not raising it?”

In the Washington Post report, an NSA spokesperson said the agency had not found “any evidence” to support Snowden’s claims about raising concerns internally. Then, the NSA did not note the email it published online today.

Ben Wizner, Director of the ACLU Speech, Privacy and Technology Project and legal adviser to Snowden, dismissed the controversy over Snowden’s internal efforts as a “red herring” to the larger issue of mass surveillance.

“The core, the main substance of Snowden’s complaint was not some instance of fraud or misconduct that he stumbled upon that was unknown to inspectors general or Congress. It was an entire system that had been deemed legal by the… oversight mechanisms,” Wizner told ABC News. “The problem was the failure of democratic consent – that an entire system of mass surveillance had been constructed and deployed without [the] consultation of the American people. So, what was he supposed to do?... There wasn’t anyone to tell who didn’t already know it and hadn’t already approved it… There was no channel through which Snowden could have effectively raised his core concerns.”


More: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/nsa-releases-snowden-email-nbc-truth/story?id=23918598&singlePage=true


55 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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NSA Releases Snowden Email, Did He Tell NBC the Truth? - ABCNews (Original Post) WillyT May 2014 OP
Did the NSA tell the truth? One e mail? Autumn May 2014 #1
I'm sure the NSA routinely redacts anything dealing with the truth. L0oniX May 2014 #3
I'm pretty damn sure of that Autumn May 2014 #9
Have you found discrepancies in Snowden's statements? Yes there have been, so if you don't trust Thinkingabout May 2014 #4
I'm thinking it all depends on whom you trust. Autumn May 2014 #6
I guess you err on the side of trusting those who do not tell the truth. Thinkingabout May 2014 #21
Oh, so who the fuck are you that YOU know the truth? Autumn May 2014 #22
And Apparently... So Do YOU !!! WillyT May 2014 #23
What are you talking about? Thinkingabout May 2014 #29
Yep... Who Do You Trust ??? WillyT May 2014 #5
WillyT I'm on record as to whom I trust, Autumn May 2014 #8
I Know... And I Love Ya For It... WillyT May 2014 #11
Right back atcha Willy. You know I thought Snowden came off so much better Autumn May 2014 #14
You Saw The PBS Frontlines On This ??? WillyT May 2014 #16
I watched the NBC interview. Autumn May 2014 #17
Here Ya Go... MUST WATCH... Trust Me... WillyT May 2014 #19
Thanks Willy... oh hell yeah I trust you. I'm gonna watch it after dinner Autumn May 2014 #20
You know this love fest between you two will change nothing. randome May 2014 #26
Are you sad that no one trusts you? I bet someone, somewhere does. Autumn May 2014 #30
I trust WillyT, too Aerows May 2014 #35
And I love you too Autumn May 2014 #38
Shit. Willy got dinged Autumn May 2014 #39
Damn, that's a shame :( Aerows May 2014 #43
That's funny. Blue_In_AK May 2014 #53
I trust him, I'm not keen to confirmation bias.. Snowden shows email that he went through proper uponit7771 May 2014 #48
I saw those. Blue_In_AK May 2014 #52
So now the computer guy is a constitutional scholar????? politicaljunkie41910 May 2014 #12
Don't buy it then. n/t Autumn May 2014 #15
If he had a complaint he did not like the procedures within the NSA and the entire system Thinkingabout May 2014 #2
Interesting ProSense May 2014 #7
thanks for the link to the mother jones piece grasswire May 2014 #24
subterfuge grasswire May 2014 #10
Yeah... The NSA Releases, What Serves The NSA's Purposes... WillyT May 2014 #13
Yes..Snowden last night said NBC had verified E-Mail of how he contacted supervisor KoKo May 2014 #18
The question is simple. Savannahmann May 2014 #25
+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! WillyT May 2014 #27
what are the chances that this one email was gleaned from others to fit a purpose? G_j May 2014 #40
Forget the NSA, why doesn't Snowden release the emails, or was he too stupid to make lostincalifornia May 2014 #28
Maybe he nor his advisors has figured out how to hack into the NSA computers and place the email the Thinkingabout May 2014 #31
He should have saved his own emails. After all he was trained as a spy lostincalifornia May 2014 #41
Nah, come on.. he took 1.7 million documents OF COURSE he took his OWN emails also to prove that he uponit7771 May 2014 #32
Then why doesn't he release them? lostincalifornia May 2014 #42
forgot /sarcasm tag.. lol.. it's needed around here uponit7771 May 2014 #45
Actually it wasn't meant to be sarcastic. If Snowden makes an allegation that could be confirmed lostincalifornia May 2014 #47
no me, I forgot the sarcasm tag... I totally agree with you, the guys a damn liar and the more and uponit7771 May 2014 #49
Sorry, and yes, your assessment is a logical conclusion lostincalifornia May 2014 #50
Yup, we're supposed to believe he didn't keep copies of his emails. gulliver May 2014 #33
I would bet big he does have copies of those e mails. Autumn May 2014 #34
Yep Aerows May 2014 #36
Or.. or the NSA knows he's FOS and even this time he whips out an email that shows he... uponit7771 May 2014 #46
good point, perhaps it is "let them have more rope to hang themselves" nt Leme May 2014 #37
Hanging works two ways. yea, I know, now Snowden is a legal expert. Thinkingabout May 2014 #44
rocket scientist, traitor, patriot, bead maker Leme May 2014 #51
Yes, the NSA is a covert operation, a reason for having employment agreement to not Thinkingabout May 2014 #54
can you outline the lies for us? frylock May 2014 #55

Autumn

(48,962 posts)
1. Did the NSA tell the truth? One e mail?
Thu May 29, 2014, 07:20 PM
May 2014

I doubt it, if Crapper can lie to Congress I'm positive the NSA can lie and withhold information to the media and the American people.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
4. Have you found discrepancies in Snowden's statements? Yes there have been, so if you don't trust
Thu May 29, 2014, 07:28 PM
May 2014

Clapper for the one story which most people do not complete the total answer then you can't trust Snowden.

Autumn

(48,962 posts)
6. I'm thinking it all depends on whom you trust.
Thu May 29, 2014, 07:37 PM
May 2014

Crapper? Snowden? A program spying on the American people so classified senators can't know or talk about it? Let's see

Pole dancing abandoned ballerinas and boxes in the garage and not being friendly with his neighbors could be downers but I'm gonna have to go with trusting Snowden.

Autumn

(48,962 posts)
22. Oh, so who the fuck are you that YOU know the truth?
Thu May 29, 2014, 08:22 PM
May 2014

Who are you to say someone else is wrong on whom they trust? I was polite in my response to you on your previous comment but I am done talking to you, I don't believe there is ever any reason to talk to someone who makes the choice to be uncivil.

Autumn

(48,962 posts)
14. Right back atcha Willy. You know I thought Snowden came off so much better
Thu May 29, 2014, 07:45 PM
May 2014

in that interview than Crapper or Kerry did when they were doing their shtick.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
26. You know this love fest between you two will change nothing.
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:18 PM
May 2014

Snowden will either spend the rest of his life in Russia or come home to imprisonment. It's clear that those are the most likely scenarios and you should at least admit it and move on. Reality can't be brokered with.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

Autumn

(48,962 posts)
30. Are you sad that no one trusts you? I bet someone, somewhere does.
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:31 PM
May 2014

I love WillyT so hell yes it's a love fest. He's an honest DUer who tells the honest straight up truth. I respect that and he stays on top of everything that is going on and keeps us current with news on this.

You might want to take your own advice and move on yourself. Reality is, you sure as hell are not bringing anyone to your point of view that doesn't already share it. You couldn't convince me that the sky looks blue on a sunny day.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
35. I trust WillyT, too
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:57 PM
May 2014

and I love him because he keeps us up to date. So it's a multi-person lovefest!

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
43. Damn, that's a shame :(
Thu May 29, 2014, 11:11 PM
May 2014

The comic wasn't even anything offensive. A least he should be able to post in a few days since his last offense was on 3/1

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
53. That's funny.
Fri May 30, 2014, 03:53 AM
May 2014

No sense of humor here sometimes. By the way, I love WillyT, too. And I don't care who knows it.

uponit7771

(93,532 posts)
48. I trust him, I'm not keen to confirmation bias.. Snowden shows email that he went through proper
Fri May 30, 2014, 02:32 AM
May 2014

... channels and got ignored, threatend etc then half the spy agencies should be fired.

So far Snowdens been the liar, NSA reviels he sent the email mentioned in the interview AFTER he contacted GG...

It wasn't even complaining about anything, some training issues...




Snowden = freakin liar

politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
12. So now the computer guy is a constitutional scholar?????
Thu May 29, 2014, 07:44 PM
May 2014

I'm not buying it. Sorry.

“...I reported that there were real problems with the way the NSA was interpreting its legal authorities. And I went even further in this, to say that they could be unconstitutional, that they were sort of abrogating our model of government in a way that empowered presidents to override our statutory laws. ..."

I don't believe the computer geek Snowden in his former life hanging out on the beaches with his girlfriend (before he became a man without a country), was preoccupied with how the NSA was interpreting its legal authorities... in a way that empowered presidents to override our statutory laws. That sounds like the type of thing one would say after he has crapped and stepped in it, and his legal advisors and comrades in crime are telling him what he needs to say to save his behind.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
2. If he had a complaint he did not like the procedures within the NSA and the entire system
Thu May 29, 2014, 07:24 PM
May 2014

was deemed legal, where did Snowden legally gather files of which he did not have the clearance to remove from NSA and deliver the files to anyone who probably did not have clearance to receive them. Snowden has a new story, guess he doesn't realize there are video and written material he has given which will show he can not keep his story together.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
7. Interesting
Thu May 29, 2014, 07:38 PM
May 2014
Ben Wizner, Director of the ACLU Speech, Privacy and Technology Project and legal adviser to Snowden, dismissed the controversy over Snowden’s internal efforts as a “red herring” to the larger issue of mass surveillance.

Snowden's lawyer is dismissing as a "red herring" what Greenwald characterized as the "biggest news."

Biggest news from NBC/Snowden interview: NBC confirmed Snowden filed written concerns with NSA - something USG has vehemently denied.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/471893773375397889

LOL!

Found via Mother Jones:

NSA Fires Back at Snowden and Claims His Email Didn't Raise "Concerns About Wrongdoing"

And the spy agency released that one email.

—By Dana Liebelson

Update, Thursday, 2:25 EDT: The NSA has released the email it received from Edward Snowden on April 5, 2013. In the email, Snowden posed questions regarding a training session. He asked whether presidential executive orders supersede federal laws. He also asked about Department of Defense regulations and Office of Director of National Intelligence rules, wondering which has greater precedence. This email did not refer to any concerns about NSA surveillance programs. Three days later, the general counsel's office replied that EOs "cannot override a statute" and that DOD and ODNI regulations "are afforded similar precedence." The email noted, "please give me a call if you would like to discuss further."

The NSA is firing back against former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, who insists he reported his concerns about illegal surveillance activity directly to the NSA in writing before leaking his treasure trove of super-secret documents. The NSA says it will today release an email it received from Snowden that undercuts his assertion.

Snowden has maintained that he alerted intelligence officials internally more than "10 times" about his concerns about NSA activities prior to becoming a leaker. Last night, as part of its interview with Snowden, NBC reported that two US officials confirmed that Snowden had sent at least one email to the NSA's general counsel raising "policy and legal questions." The network's revelation drew attention; the Intercept's Glenn Greenwald called it the "biggest news" from the interview. After all, NSA officials have previously denied that Snowden reported wrongdoing to senior officials. In a speech on April 15 in Tampa, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said that "Snowden isn't a whistleblower." He asserted that Snowden "could have reported (concerns) to seniors at NSA…he chose not to go to any of those places."

- more -

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/nsa-snowden-email

Wizner's comments in the OP article also indicates that Snowden has no evidence of his contacts.

Feinstein: Snowden never voiced NSA concerns
http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Feinstein-Snowden-never-voiced-NSA-concerns-5514604.php

Snowden email fell short of NSA criticism
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025020097


The "biggest news" is that Snowden admitted to stealing damaging documents and distributing them to people who simply promised they would reveal the information.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
24. thanks for the link to the mother jones piece
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:02 PM
May 2014

Many of the commenters there "get it."



The pattern of the NSA denials is to be led into getting a denial on the record, and then backtracking when their duplicity is exposed.

They backtracked today. More tomorrow?

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
10. subterfuge
Thu May 29, 2014, 07:40 PM
May 2014

Just because one email has been released doesn't mean the NSA isn't withholding other emails. This is called a limited hangout, in political terms.

Sleazy trick, and ABC fell for it.

NBC has requested the other emails by FOIA.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
18. Yes..Snowden last night said NBC had verified E-Mail of how he contacted supervisor
Thu May 29, 2014, 07:54 PM
May 2014

and Brian Williams (that big puff of Hot Air) said that there was one confirmation but he then dourly reported that NBC had put in a FOIA Request for the "other E-mails that Snowden claimed to have sent).

Wait until Williams (NBC) reports they got the release but all is "Blacked Out" as "National Security Info" so it "...can't be verified that Snowden is correct in his information that he informed others."

Yet Williams didn't report that Gen. Keith Alexander said in Senate Hearing that there was no evidence that Snowden release of documents had harmed anyone."

Amy Goodman and others have the video of Alexander's Senate Testimony...but, I'm too tired to look up the links tonight.

 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
25. The question is simple.
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:18 PM
May 2014

Did the NSA lie to the American People? Yes. When the program was revealed during the Bush Co years, the NSA pretended that the program targeted people, and did not gather all communications by all people. This lie continued for many years, and when faced with questions under oath, they lied some more.

Now, the NSA is releasing this email as if it is the "only" one. Yet the NSA claimed previously that Snowden did not communicate any questions to them.

A book by John P. Craven is interesting. It describes the process by which intelligence and secret programs are covered.

To summarize. A lie is covered with another lie. The longer the list is showing who knows about the program, the more likely they are read into the cover story, but not the truth. Take the recovery of the K-129 by the Glomar Explorer.

The entire project was called Azorian, but the press got a hold of a piece of it, and that piece was called Project Jennifer. So for decades the entire thing was known to history as "Project Jennifer" which was only part of the whole mess. Those people read into and briefed on Project Jennifer probably had little understanding of the entirety of Azorian.

According to Doctor Craven, the smaller the list, the larger the chance you're close to the center and getting the truth.

So when I see the NSA reveal an email that appears to support their position, I wonder what layer of the onion we are on. Obviously we're no where near the center, and we probably won't be during my lifetime. But, I think we are in the process of peeling another layer of lies from that onion. (Use Artichoke if you like)

That is the key to wisdom in my experience. To filter the information you're getting now through the accumulated knowledge of your life, and all that you've learned. Doctor Craven is a good source for information concerning how Secret Projects are brought along. He not only developed the science behind the Polaris Submarines. He developed the abilities of the first Spy Submarine Halibut. So as you hear the NSA claim that they're coming clean, and releasing everything, wait a few years, because if the pressure is maintained, they'll "find" more documents that they accidentally missed in the first search. That will be another layer of the onion as we search for and hope to reach the truth.

Truth is something that Intelligence Agencies hate to tell, even to those they "report" to. If you doubt that, you need look no further than the Venona Project which was kept from President's Roosevelt and Truman. They just didn't need to know man. They couldn't keep it from Eisenhower, because he'd been briefed in when he was in the Army. Damn the luck.

lostincalifornia

(5,362 posts)
28. Forget the NSA, why doesn't Snowden release the emails, or was he too stupid to make
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:24 PM
May 2014

copies and save them?

What are we dealing with?

The guy releases all this information before securing a country for asylum. There is something really wrong with his thought process, unless of course there are other motivations

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
31. Maybe he nor his advisors has figured out how to hack into the NSA computers and place the email the
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:32 PM
May 2014

in so as to confuse the pros the emails existed. Snowden should have been more interested in planting the emails rather than hacking and stealing files. Guess his legal expertize has fallen short.

lostincalifornia

(5,362 posts)
41. He should have saved his own emails. After all he was trained as a spy
Thu May 29, 2014, 10:53 PM
May 2014

You do this before you leave

uponit7771

(93,532 posts)
32. Nah, come on.. he took 1.7 million documents OF COURSE he took his OWN emails also to prove that he
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:35 PM
May 2014

... tried to go through the proper channels

lostincalifornia

(5,362 posts)
47. Actually it wasn't meant to be sarcastic. If Snowden makes an allegation that could be confirmed
Fri May 30, 2014, 02:31 AM
May 2014

via email, and he doesn't have those emails, it doesn't pass the smell test


uponit7771

(93,532 posts)
49. no me, I forgot the sarcasm tag... I totally agree with you, the guys a damn liar and the more and
Fri May 30, 2014, 02:35 AM
May 2014

... more he talks the more his lawyers come up with some BS.

Putin confirmation
Emails regarding to complaints about what NSA was doing
Why he went to Russia

all seem like bold faced lies

gulliver

(13,985 posts)
33. Yup, we're supposed to believe he didn't keep copies of his emails.
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:38 PM
May 2014

The guy's just a liar and more than a little cracked. His view of himself as a hero could not be more dishonest and mistaken. He has given the world nothing but lossage.

Autumn

(48,962 posts)
34. I would bet big he does have copies of those e mails.
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:52 PM
May 2014

And he would be a fool to release them. The NSA doesn't know if he has them or not.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
36. Yep
Thu May 29, 2014, 10:01 PM
May 2014

And every time the NSA makes a statement, Snowden whips out another piece of evidence that they are liars. They will hem and haw, redact and lie, then he will just release the email and make them look like idiotic liars once again.

The NSA's problem is that their entire culture is filled with liars and they don't know how to tell the truth. It's the same with the CIA and the FBI. He actually has the documentation and evidence, so he just waited for them to make claims and then revealed that they were full of it.

uponit7771

(93,532 posts)
46. Or.. or the NSA knows he's FOS and even this time he whips out an email that shows he...
Fri May 30, 2014, 02:29 AM
May 2014

... went up the chain only after he contacted GG with other docs.

He could get half the NSA fired if he had solid proof he tried to go through some proper channels to get this reviewed

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
44. Hanging works two ways. yea, I know, now Snowden is a legal expert.
Thu May 29, 2014, 11:29 PM
May 2014

Next week or so he might revealed al he is a rocket scientist.

 

Leme

(1,092 posts)
51. rocket scientist, traitor, patriot, bead maker
Fri May 30, 2014, 02:37 AM
May 2014

It is of some interest which he is....but not as much interest for in what the NSA is collecting and whether they should be doing so.
-
The NSA is a covert government in effect. Legality aside.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
54. Yes, the NSA is a covert operation, a reason for having employment agreement to not
Fri May 30, 2014, 05:42 AM
May 2014

Divulge information of programs etc of their operation.

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