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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsUnbelievable...Gun Activists With Assault Rifles Harass Marine Veteran on Memorial Day
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/guns-open-carry-texas-harassment-marine-veteran"Are you gonna cry? Sounds like you're about to cry." Watch armed men pursue a vet through downtown Fort Worth.
Mark Follman on Fri. May 30, 2014 6:00 AM PDT
On Memorial Day this week, a former Marine in Texas named James got a couple calls from friends who'd spotted an unusual gathering in downtown Fort Worth: Roughly a dozen people, mostly men, were hanging out in the middle of the city's cultural district, armed with semi-automatic rifles. James quickly knew what his friends were describing, having recently encountered an open-carry demonstration himself in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. An independent TV commercial producer who sometimes films live events, James headed downtown with his camera to get some footage.
What he saw there struck him as especially provocative. Not only had the open-carry activists come to a typically relaxed, family friendly part of town, they were displaying intimidating firearms just three days after a major gun massacre in southern California. What he didn't anticipate was that they would soon be pursuing him for several city blocks with cameras of their own, harassing him and later posting the footage online, where they would also level homophobic slurs and violent threats against him.
Women who speak out have been the primary target for gun activists, as I detailed in a recent investigation. But now, on a day meant to honor fallen service members, a military vet would make the hit list.
James, who asked that his last name not be used, knows his way around guns. He served for four years in the US Marines infantry, where he earned several awards for marksmanship. He is a gun owner, he told me, and a strong supporter of the Second Amendment and concealed-carry rights. But while carrying rifles publicly is legal in Texas, he felt that these guyssupporters of a movement that seeks to legalize the open carrying of handgunswere crossing a line.
The men, members of the groups Open Carry Texas and Open Carry Tarrant County, asked him which news network he was with. When he said he wasn't, things began turning frosty. They pressed him about what he thought of their demonstration, and he replied with an unvarnished opinion that included profanities, language he told me he regrets having used.
"I'm all for responsible gun owners," he says. "What I was taught was not to wear it around like a gold chain. What they're doing is irresponsible. It intimidates the public, and people have just as much right to be comfortable in their public environment as these guys have a right to own their firearms."
Suddenly he was surrounded by about a half dozen armed men. They started badgering him with questions and accusing him of being anti-American. "I said, 'Are you kidding me? I served in the military.' They were trying to intimidate me, and when I didn't cower that upset them," he said. But he was starting to feel nervous and decided to disengage and walk away.
In a video obtained by Mother Jones that was posted online later that day by one of the activists, the group can be seen pursuing and harassing James through downtown Fort Worth. "I'm following this guy around," declares one of them, setting off after him with his weapon slung across his back. He and others stay right behind James for several city blocks, following him through traffic and taunting him along the way. James grows more agitated and tells them off, calling them assholes and bullies.
"We're being polite, you're calling people names," one of the gun activists pursuing him says.
"You're not being polite out here with assault rifles the weekend after people lost their children," James retorts, before again trying to walk away.
The harassment continues down the street. "Are you gonna cry?" one says. "Sounds like you're about to cry." Another says: "What's wrong with that guy, is he a liberal?
"Yeah," the other replies.
"Big time?"
"Yeah."
AnneD
(15,774 posts)on them. These types of protest will cause a backlash.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)clearly doesn't know shit about 'em
everyone gets physically sick when their "mainstream" shows up at shootings and opens their gaping mummy maws, followed by their "fringe" stalking the parents of victims
what we have to do is make that backlash count: the NRA's against 90% of the country and knows it--but as long as it's backed by 51% of Congress and/or the WH backs down it won't ever matter; this means working with Pubs unfortunately (but not all of them are White Power anarcho-capitalists so gun control has an "in"
dhill926
(16,356 posts)this is beyond fucked up .
valerief
(53,235 posts)Schema Thing
(10,283 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)with fucked up laws.
Same place that allows men to shoot prostitutes who take the money and then refuse to have sex.
Schema Thing
(10,283 posts)I've seen enough to know that when the police want to stop someone from harassing someone else, especially in-the-moment, they can find a way to do it.
What they didn't want to do, is confront a bunch of guys with guns. I don't blame them, but they need to do it anyway.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)these guys have an effective license from the Texas state government to terrorize the population
Schema Thing
(10,283 posts)It's a horrible fucked up law, but the police can certainly ascertain when people are being threatening and disturbing the peace. Open Carry does not trump that.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)small scale version of what happened with the Bundy thugs
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)if open carry is done in such a way as to threaten the safety of individuals they can be charged.
One of the open carry groups recently posted a message telling members how to conduct themselves in order to stay out of trouble. If I find the link, I'll add it.
Bandit
(21,475 posts)Especially while carrying an assault weapon. That is assault. Just by following him and verbally abusing him while armed like they were is threatening. You can not threaten people just because....
tblue37
(65,488 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)as they're carryng an assault rifle.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)in their ranks
Pretty sad when cops can spend hours and lots of $$$$$ find a pot seed but turn the other way when violent thugs try to intimidate people by brandishing weapons.
Bet those lowlife cowards would have not been such billy badasses without their firearms on their hips and shoulders.
world wide wally
(21,755 posts)Brickbat
(19,339 posts)paleotn
(17,963 posts)....where people get shot just for doing something that irritates others. You may want to live in a psyco world like that, but I think the rest of us have better sense.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)paleotn
(17,963 posts)tblue37
(65,488 posts)way the father was teaching his 7-year-old daughter to ride a bicycle. (There's a DU thread about that incident.)
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)(actually, my personal belief is that I would love to see "no" guns).
How are these jack asses responsible gun owners? They haven't shot anyone (yet) ... yet are we to believe that using guns to intimidate people is an acceptable and responsible use? does the NRA support their 'rights" (of course without any associated responsibilities).
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Because they did not aim it at him? If a guy started yelling at me and harrassing me like that it would be one thing, but armed to the teeth, that's as intimidating as hell.
I'm sure all the gunners will be along shortly to tell us all how safe this is and guns don't kill people and blah blah blah.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Doesn't get much lower than that. I get that they disagree with him - what I don't get is that they continually harassed him and he is one of the reasons that they have the Bill of Rights in the first place.
Ideological idiots.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)IF you don't get this shit stopped soon, everybody in this country is going to believe EVERY gun owner is just like these assholes.
Police your fucking own!
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)These nutcases don't represent law abiding gun owners any more than suicide bombers represent the religion they belong to.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Because so called "responsible gun owners" are not being part of the narrative, these people are now the public face of gun ownership. If you don't like that fact, you had damned well better get active and get very loud about accepting some new reasonable gun control, or else these people could convince a majority that your worst nightmares about gun control will end up as law.
But right now, these people are driving the narrative about gun ownership just like the fun dies drove the narrative for the traditional marriage movement, and all it took to turn the country around on that issue was less than a decade.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Yes, those flaunting gun owners do give normal citizens a black eye. While I don't think their ignorance will cause any disruption to the 2nd Amendment, it may help get rid of open carry or at least curb their idiotic behavior.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)we reach the tipping point on guns. Personally I think we are close to the tipping point, all it would take is 2 or 3 Representatives and or Senators to lose their jobs by not supporting gun control and the many will change sides in a hurry, or for a massacre in a state capital building. Gabby wasn't enough but if 5 or 10 get shot at once, then all bets are off. The next school shooting may be enough, it's hard to say.
Lazy Daisy
(928 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)mikeysnot
(4,757 posts)funny.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)These guys are less analogous to suicide bombers and more to the garden variety door to door evangelicals.
However, I do understand the desire to paint them as extreme as possible, and pretend they are not indicative or predictive of the herd as a whole.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...He took to True To You, an online fan site dedicated to the artist, and answered questions submitted by his devout listeners.
"I see no difference between eating animals and paedophilia. They are both rape, violence, murder," he said.
Continuing his comparison of the meat industry to other horrible human-related situations, he also likened the slaughter of animals to genocide, saying, "If you believe in the abattoir then you would support Auschwitz."
IF you don't get this shit stopped soon, everybody in this country is going to believe
EVERY vegan is just like this asshole.
Police your fucking own!
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)And why are vegans exempt from your calculus, and not gun owners?
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)That would be analogous to apples and oranges. Multiple and many = more than one, one = well, just one.
Being vegan or eating meat; neither will kill you, at least not in a single event. On the other hand, guns and bullets can be fatal in a single event. Again Apples and oranges.
The produce manager at the local supermarket can probably help you with your identity problem.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Do we get to judge all vegans by their actions, or does your guilt by association
schtick only apply to gun owners?
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)in the fair treatment of animals. Their rhetoric and actions are out of the ordinary just like the NRA. Extreme as they are they still do have their extremist, just like the NRA has the Open Carry people that they have denounced. PETA would be happy if we were all vegetarian, no need for vegan. Vegetarians don't mind animal products being consumed as long as the animal is not harmed in the process. Although far from vegetarian, I sympathize with the movement and think it a noble goal.
I honestly don't know much about Stop Huntington Animal Cruelty except they are against testing on animals and are mostly European with their main focus on one facility in Europe, thus their name. Not sure about any extremism on their part. I will admit to agreeing with them that much animal testing can be cruel. PETA also focuses on animal testing. You probably feel differently, especially when they test for gun shot wounds on monkeys and dogs. Ever had a dog or cat stolen and sold to an animal testing facility? I haven't but know a person that has.
Does my "guilt by association schtick only apply to gun owners?" No, I have other pet peeves, but if you will notice that is what the OP and the thread are about. To talk about anything else too much would be a diversion from the main topic which is extremist gun owners, you wouldn't want that would you? You can always do your own OP about anything other than extremist gun owners.
Congratulations though, I will upgrade you to comparing apples and pears, well done!
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...far be from me to harsh your mellow.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)It's approaches like yours that have made gun control what it is today...
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Distinction being: article to go actively looking for, rather than paraded in front of a restaurant and shoved down the throat.
However, I certainly understand the desire to make false equivalences to better rationalize one's demographic of choice.
Paladin
(28,273 posts)This is something that Democrats should be exploiting to the max. I think the vast number of sensible gun owners (including myself) see these gun flashers for the morons they truly are.
KG
(28,752 posts)Iggo
(47,566 posts)Damn near predictable.
drm604
(16,230 posts)Immature assclowns who go around intimidating people in order to make a political statement.
These are the kinds of people who'll open carry. Very few, if any, mature sensible people will want to do so.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... can take on anyone they want.
drm604
(16,230 posts)Of course, maybe that would be a mixed blessing because then they'd live in a bubble always surrounded and reenforced by people like themselves.
In any case, the people who most want to be able to do something like this are the very people who shouldn't be doing something like this.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)The folks who scream loudest against stronger gun regulations know that if the rules were even just a little more stringent, they would be excluded from gun ownership.
They have anger management issues. Domestic abuse issues. Substance abuse issues.
They are the neighborhood bullies.
These are the guys who think getting into a fight after a night of drinking is the perfect ending to a Friday night.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Good one.
I'm old enough to remember, "Quit hiding behind that gun and fight like a man!"
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)3catwoman3
(24,050 posts)...wondering how many of these jackasses served in the military.
paleotn
(17,963 posts)Zero. Like the vast majority of gun nuts, including those in this online community, they'd wet their pants if faced by someone who could shoot back. They're all paper target fortitude. Nothing more.
mikeysnot
(4,757 posts)to cowards. Yes theya re heavily armed and harassing a guy armed with a camera.
What they really were doing was preventing him from filming their lame asses posing with their weapons. Showing for the tools they are.
I can't wait to see the guys video of them since this was the camera view of them "law abiding" citizemns we always hear about.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Since Michael Dukakis ran in 1988 and Poppy called him a "Card carrying member of the ACLU," Democrats should have stood up the moment that their patriotism and honor are challenged when called a "Liberal."
Yet, time and time again, they have refused.
And today, our vets get harrassed by gun nut "conservatives."
Beartracks
(12,821 posts)The gay slurs, the taunting, following they guy around... I remember class bullies in 8th grade doing that kind of stuff to classmates.
Eighth fucking grade.
Congratulations, conservatives.
=======================
narnian60
(3,510 posts)Well said.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)disgusting type of Texan letting their their little dingalings show to try to intimidate. These aren't adults. A bunch of Bush type cowards is all they are. Wear the uniform and do everything they can to keep out of harms way. Sad, sick and disgusting what has been shown to be the true nature of a lot of amerikkkans and this culture for the last six years. Truly disgusting, but not surprising or unexpected by me. I am so glad the world has been allowed to see the true nature of what was under the rocks and living in the sewers of this country. Truly glad.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)DinahMoeHum
(21,809 posts)Nah, fat chance.
cactusfractal
(497 posts)...though that doesn't detract from the asshattery of these OCT folks. I'm a liberal Marine Corps veteran and I certainly don't expect wingnuts to back off when they find that out. I do ask plenty of those advocating for war when *they* volunteered to serve, though. Chickenhawks are the worst.
kokobell616
(35 posts)So what would have been the case if this fellow felt threatened by the sight of those guns and the antagonistic comments of those carrying those guns?
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/PE/2/9/C/9.31
22 other states that have stand your ground laws,
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-law-basics/states-that-have-stand-your-ground-laws.html
Then again, these were faux patriots who made a conscious choice to wag their penial extentions about in public.
What would we be commenting about had that former Marine chose to stand his ground?
hack89
(39,171 posts)now if they pointed their guns at him then he could make a case for self defense.