It's really not about politics to the typical conservative anymore

[Shankapotomus]

Last edited Sat May 31, 2014, 02:48 PM - Edit history (1)

They say it is, when you talk to them and make a big show of it, but it's really about how they will look compared to others if liberal causes are allowed to win out. You can sense that is the real underlying issue for them. While for the vast majority of their opponents it's about poverty, jobs, human rights, public safety, etc---for conservatives, it's about what they will look like if others are allowed to rise to a more equitable level of economic success, treatment, respect. It's about their own self-worth.

Even in the way they discuss -- or refuse to discuss politics --- you can sense it. It's like an impenetrable cloud of tension that permeates all their interactions with themselves and others. They feel threatened in any situation where they are not the ones giving direction, being the adviser, the boss, the businessman, the coach, the teacher, the expert, the cop, the soldier, the Sergent, the stock broker, the preacher, the authoritarian, the father, the husband, the parent...They want their due attention and respect and playing and defending these roles, where others are subordinate to them, is how they get it. Just as they are involved in politics for all the wrong reasons, the typical conservative you encounter today is heavily invested in all those roles of authority for all the wrong reasons. There has to be a subordinate class to make them feel good about themselves.

Does a conservative have you under their control? Maybe a boss, a coach, a relative? They really make you feel it, don't they?

If a conservative can't feel their authority and power in these roles they get very upset. They won't discuss politics with a liberal not because they respect the politics of others but to listen to your view would be an act of subordination to you. Any action that subordinates them to the views, the authority, the counsel, the power or expertise of others is intolerable. They hate you because you're not looking to them for the answers and that's why they can't discuss politics without getting frustrated and on the verge of anger.

People need to look up to them, to aspire to be them, or to even fear them if need be.

Otherwise, how will that make them look? You can't be the one in the position of power telling them how things are going to be. No, they tell you.

But the one thing these wannabe authoritarians are subordinate to is what? Government. And, as you would expect someone who feels threatened by anyone and anything that challenges the self worth they've invested in the various roles of authority, they hate government.

It's time to stop granting conservatives the presumption it's about politics. It's not. It's about their un-admitted battle with their own personal psychology. It's about protecting and reinforcing the fragile self-esteem of insecure little children.

Want to deflate their egos? Don't support their illusion that they are an authority at anything or over anyone.

And, whenever possible, don't work for one.

[RobertEarl]

1. You nailed it

The conservatives I know are just as you describe them: Desiring to be the king-of-the-hill.

The conservatives hate me because they always lose arguments. And since I have a libearl way of thinking, far surpass them in finding solutions to problems.

[Shankapotomus]

2. I should have included

Last edited Sat May 31, 2014, 02:30 PM - Edit history (1)

the conservative reaction to feminists. If there is one group that won't stand for the authority of a conservative male or conservative female with Stockholm Syndrome, it's feminists. They can't stand a woman who doesn't need a man. You can really see that psychology activate when a conservative is confronted by anything pro-woman.

You're lucky the conservatives around you even engage you in arguments. The ones I know are averse to any discussion of politics where there is another side being presented. They just freak out. It's like I'm dealing with cult members who have already been totally programmed.

Thanks.

[RobertEarl]

39. Most Cons I know are local Dems

So we at least have some common ground. The only reason they listen is because i occupy some of the open space of their power in public.

Bringing liberal ideas to them is usually well received because they know in their heart that liberal ideas are the only progress that can be obtained.

Republican cons just seem to avoid me, but when they don't, they get some edumacating, eh?

[ancianita]

5. How do you get "demonizing" out of this thread? That presupposes good/evil constructs, but the

ideas I see here are about their psychology, a condition that they can overcome as humans, not demons.

[buzzcola]

6. Ok, that's what "demonize" means.

[ancianita]

7. Okay so please give some examples of demonizing here. Seriously. I don't see it.

[buzzcola]

8. "demonize"--portray as wicked and threatening.

"seeking to demonize one side in the conflict"



https://www.google.com/search?q=demonize&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US fficial&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb

[Leme]

9. i don't see many Democrats demonize . I see far more claims of God, and demonizing by Republicans.nt

[buzzcola]

11. You do realize "demonize" is not a religious term?

[ancianita]

15. And yet its root is "demon," a term often used by the religious conservative right, among others.

[ancianita]

12. Apply that definition to quoted evidence from this thread. If you can't, your claim is baseless.

[buzzcola]

17. What does demonize mean to you? Please respond with your own definition.

[ancianita]

20. I'm not the one making the claim that others are "demonizing," you are. You have the burden of proof

All you have to do is provide quotes from here to show demonizing, the definition of which I agree with. But you can't because no one is doing it.

Why don't you stop defending what you're mistaken about? Just admit it and let's move on.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

22. That poster suggested we shouldn't demonize conservatives and now he/she has you discussing

the meaning of the word "demonize" and distracting you from explaining exactly why we shouldn't be "demonizing" them.

[ancianita]

24. I get the drift but I'm not biting.

[buzzcola]

28. Nice. First "demonizing" was challenged. Now it's, Why shouldn't we demonize them.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

29. Tell me this, while you're coming in here like a bigshot telling us how to act...

Why shouldn't we be demonizing confederates? They hate everybody and love only themselves. They take and never give. They lie and connive. They cost people their lives in several different ways.

So, come on with it. Why shouldn't they be demonized, from your Progressive point of view?

ETA: I'm going out to a cook out with friends but will look for your response when I return later tonight. Hopefully you'll not be PPR'ed by the time I get back tonight.

[buzzcola]

30. Do what you want. You guys sound like kids that need to be sent the principal.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

31. You guys? That implies that you are not one of us guys. MIRT ALERT! nt

[buzzcola]

32. I'm a polite, rational person. You guys are not. Too complicated for you?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

34. Then politely tell me why we should not demonize confederate assholes who contribute

nothing but misery and stupidy to this nation, from your Progressive point-of-view, that is.

I'll repeat, as I said above, I have a cookout to go to and I'm already running behind. I will read your polite, rational response when I get back tonight. I hope you last that long, should I feel the need to conceed.

[ancianita]

46. Then prove. your. claim. That's what we do in DU. Stubborn insistence on your rightness fails here.

[buzzcola]

47. You thought "demonize" referred to literal Devils. Cannot take your position seriously.

[CreekDog]

54. Buzzcola joined DU in 2005, didn't post until Saturday

i wonder who he was previously that got nuked?

[CreekDog]

62. You joined DU in 2005, your first post was this weekend

After 9 years without posting under this screenname, you post 58 times this weekend, posting strawmen of liberal arguments.

Can you get any more obvious?

[Tom Ripley]

10. I don't see the value of conservatives.

[Shankapotomus]

25. Comedic relief?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

33. While I appreciate the levity (really, I do), their stupidity is destroying our liberties,

our happiness, our well-being - and peoples' lives.

[Shankapotomus]

38. I'm with you on that...

I fight them. Support democratic and liberal candidates and causes. And most of all, avoid conservatives like the plague.

I have never been in a social or work environment that wasn't ruined or made uglier with the appearance of a conservative. My conservative radar is so refined they don't even know why I'm gone after I've permanently bailed on whatever scene they've contaminated.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

13. Confederate, goddamned fucking cons ARE demons! Every damn thing they do costs lives!

They fail at security so that 3000 of our citizens die in airliner attacks on tall buildings. They send our soldiers to die in contrived wars. They cut food aid to our children and cut aid to our elderly.

I could go on and on and on... But anyone who thinks they aren't demons is either stupid or has an agenda.

They are, as a collective, the Devil, incarnate. If there was such a thing.

[ancianita]

18. Calm down. Doing stupid evil isn't demonic, but humans who have to be, how can I say it ...

quarantined. These people are dupes of killers, thieves and con artists who should go to jail.

Let's not get go down the demonizing road here.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

21. They're all fucking evil. Dupes have to believe in what the killers, thieves, and con

artists are selling them. That makes them all evil. It makes them demons. I don't care about the literal meaning of "demon". I'm using it in the figurative sense, which everyone can understand.

The nerve of someone to come in here their first fucking day and try to tell us that we shouldn't be demonizing those evil fucks! Fuck that shit!

[ancianita]

23. Well, I'd prefer to think that dupes have redeemable capacities, and we can't get far with rhetoric

Last edited Sun Jun 1, 2014, 07:35 AM - Edit history (3)

that implies an attack on a poster. Just trying to establish that civil tones and fairly descriptive language is used, that's all.

Conservatives pretty much stereotype themselves, but they can't be dealt with when we come from your position. Even the latest Gallup Poll shows that the country's becoming politically more liberal, and I'd like to attribute that change to the ongoing debates that disprove their bubble-headed ideas and their drive to win at all costs at the expense of the nation's well-being.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/05/america-becoming-bit-more-liberal-thats-pretty-unusual-six-years-democratic-presi

[ChisolmTrailDem]

27. "but they can't be dealt with when we come from your position." Well...

...that's just your opinion. As far as I'm concerned, I've had it with their bullshit! All the while projecting their idiocy onto our side. Screw them. They've had plenty of time to come to their senses. The plain and simple fact of the matter is that most of them are stupid and are idiots that cannot think for themselves. They are the kids that dropped out of school or failed in school and are so scared of the world as a result that arming themselves to the teeth is the only way they feel safe. That is why they can be manipulated into supporting evil policies. I don't want a stupid idiot's vote for the sake of a vote.

You have your more patient way of dealing with them, and I have had it up to here with them. You try to reason with them, I prefer to smack them upside the head. Six of one, a half dozen of the other.

[Shankapotomus]

49. Let's just agree

that, according to a person's particular experience with conservatives, they may have more or less a capacity for dealing with them. Some, who have experienced first hand abuse at the hands of conservatives, are going to get less mileage with them than someone who hasn't had their energy and life wasted by them yet. If we have some liberal representatives that can manage a more patient face for conservatives, that's good. We need them for diplomacy when a more patient and tolerant voice is called for.

And if some of us can't tolerate conservatives in our presence based on our past experience and knowledge of them, that's okay too.

[AverageJoe90]

52. I find this to be more reasonable, IMHO. nt

[Shankapotomus]

16. I don't see how

it's any different than "demonizing" conservatives based on their politics. We assert certain motives to their political stances all the time in the political realm. I just go a little deeper at naming motives. Based on what we see out there I think it's required if we are to understand what we are dealing with and, in some cases, well deserved.

[Doctor_J]

35. I don't see the value of showing them anything but utter contempt

[quakerboy]

48. ??

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/demonize?s=t

It might be helpful to have a definition of a word you are misusing.

[ancianita]

4. Their psychology is whatever got them power in school -- bullying, manipulation, lack of empathy,

cowardice, victim blaming, exploitation and denial of responsibility for imposing their behaviors on others. They are children in grownups' bodies, hiding behind bubble-headed styles of rationalizations. They play at power to win, not to do good for the world.

[Shankapotomus]

26. Yes!

They will side with the group they expect to win no matter the destruction that is resulting from them. And spurn the less powerful no matter the good they are trying to achieve.

[Louisiana1976]

36. Well said. They never grew up.

[PowerToThePeople]

14. That reporter should have sued the shite out of that Rep.

In fact, what did did may be illegal, maybe he needs to be in jail.

[Shankapotomus]

19. +1 nt

[Laelth]

37. Interesting observation. k&r n/t

-Laelth

[Duppers]

40. Bravo, Shankapotomus!

You did indeed nail their psyche and motivation

[Shankapotomus]

41. Thanks!

This crosses my mind from time time. I'm glad I was able to type it out this time in a readable form.

[Monk06]

42. You're right. They want this back...........

The white father, at the center of the Universe, with everyone adoring and most importantly, obeying him.

And no black people except as maids and chauffeurs.

[Shankapotomus]

44. You've said better

and more succinctly than I!

[Dirty Socialist]

43. Brilliant!

Ever think about being a journalist or a pundit?

[Shankapotomus]

45. Never

I couldn't do this with the consistency and quality that some DUers do. (Who, incidentally, I don't mind looking up to because it's not required.)

But thanks!

[treestar]

50. +1

They are condescending know it alls for a reason.

[Mnemosyne]

51. Excellent analysis, Shankapotomus. nt

[freshwest]

53. So well expressed. Yes, that's their only point when all is said and done.

Thanks for sharing your insight.

[Shankapotomus]

56. Hey thanks

The hosting info I sent you useful, I hope?

[freshwest]

58. You did? About 5 people have asked me to host groups. Must have gotten lost in the confusion. Sorry.

[Shankapotomus]

59. It's in my sent folder

Should be in your inbox. Let me know if you need me to send it again. Basic info you may already know, though.

[freshwest]

60. I'd appreciate a resend, just in case, although I've never agreed to host before. TIA.

[Shankapotomus]

61. lol

It's not about hosting a group at DU. I was talking about web hosting in a thread some months back and you asked me about how to get a website host.

[Populist_Prole]

55. Superb breakdown. Quotable.

Your second and fourth paragraphs are the reason I'm bookmarking this. They are such a concise description of every conservative blowhard I know. What's notable, at least from my observation, is that while they think they are "winning", ( basically refusing to give an inch ) that demeanor, that worldview is exhausting to maintain. Every thing is about politics to them and must be thusly framed as such. It requires a large expenditure of energy, mental and physical.

Then again, they seem to like it, even as the stress shortens their lives. I once remarked to my very conservative ( and VERY preachy ) father: "You'd rather be at a constant state of war, with all the bad that entails, rather than a peace where you're not absolutely prevailing in every way".

[Shankapotomus]

57. Thanks

I also have a conservative father and it makes sense that some of what I wrote would sound familiar. They certainly do have a habit of looking for trouble in order to express their personality. It's difficult to maintain who you are in such a circumstance and so easy to just mimic the parent. I'm glad you've held firm to your own sense of perspective.