Let's Keep Score Here... Grasswire Just Got A Second Strike...

[WillyT]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by ucrdem (a host of the General Discussion forum).

It seems a minority of members are trying to change the tenor of DU.



I've still got three strikes...

[In_The_Wind]

1. I've given up keeping score ...

[WillyT]

2. I Hear Ya... I Think Transparency On The Alerter Might Be Useful...

[In_The_Wind]

4. It would cut down on malicious alerts.

Personally, I think the person being alerted on should know who sent the alert.

[blkmusclmachine]

72. +1

[Downwinder]

6. i would go for that.

[Comrade Grumpy]

19. Absolutely. I've called for that before. It could cut down on the abuses.

[flvegan]

92. Alerter? Why not the jury as well? Transparency and innominate juries...oxymoron anyone?

[geek tragedy]

99. I agree! A bunch of people have alerted

on my posts over the past 24 hours. I certainly would be interested to see who they are.

[WillyT]

116. And I Hate That... As A Poster In One Or Two Threads About This Subject Said...

"What happened to courtesy?"

You see somebody linking to a post that has problems...

And you let them know with a PM ???

Hell... we have newbies here all the time asking how to post an image/toon to DU...

We might want to inform them about sourcing as well.

I've been here almost from the start, but I saw Washington Post, and that was good enough for me.

Never thought to go deeper than that.

[geek tragedy]

122. I've never gotten such a PM.

You go to DU with the posters you have.

[WillyT]

3. BTW... THIS... Is What Got Hidden...

DULink: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025035372

[sufrommich]

25. That's a link a right wing source who's

stated mission is to "expose and combat liberal media bias",I would have voted to hide it too and I feel absolutely no malice toward grasswire.It may make the point she/he was trying to make but it's like linking to Breitbart as far as I'm concerned.

[L0oniX]

26. WTF indeed!

[VanillaRhapsody]

28. WTF!

that is not even logical...

[geek tragedy]

30. It was a rightwing conspiracy theory

on a filthy rightwing site.

What part of that is acceptable?

[Agschmid]

32. That was a stupid post.

[Renew Deal]

40. It got hidden for a bad source

That's OK.

[pacalo]

42. Ugh.

If the source was right-wing, it should have been an SoP hide. Only the factual information that the NBC political news director is married to the head of the FAA & the source link were posted by grasswire.

The fact that it was sent to a jury indicates to me that the alert was a punitive one. This could have been handled with a PM to grasswire.

[geek tragedy]

43. SOP doesn't apply to wingnut sources.

Only option is hiding.

Solution is for people to avoid posting rw horseshit.

Really not difficult.

[pacalo]

50. Oh, really?

I've been a GD host for two terms & the content of OPs were certainly part of our purview. I know you'll find a way to dispute that fact, so go on ahead. You're the resident authority on everything, I've noticed.

[geek tragedy]

79. What does the GD SoP say about rw content

not being allowed?

The SoP DOES say "no whining about DU." But here you, a GD host, are participating instead of locking.

I can see why people do not bother with SoP alerts, given the dysfunctional nature of the host system.

[pacalo]

88. The "no whining on DU" provision of the SoP really jumps out for you, doesn't it?

I've only seen frustrated serial alerters griping about the "dysfunctional nature of the host system". Some people take their authoritative natures to the next level on discussion sites; everything is personal to them. Pretty sad, really.

[geek tragedy]

94. Well, here you are not enforcing an explicit provision

of the SoP.

Which says more about the host system than any defense you could articulate.

If you want people to use the SoP alert, maybe you shouldn't send a very blatant signal that you as a host won't bother to enforce such alerts.

[pacalo]

108. GD hosts aren't "wanting people to use the alert"; they're there because alerts are inevitable.

And if the hides were determined by a strict, rote system that only considered the literal wording of the SoP, the alerts could be handled by elad's expertise in programming rather than through common-sense discussion by peers. Context is supreme in hosting.

[azurnoir]

114. the provision that would be enforced has to do with conspiracy theory

and woo which the post in question was defined as

[bettyellen]

126. the hosts do not all agree on woo, or RWNJ sourcing either. there are a few holdouts that make

excuses and will not lock anything. So, basically there is no moderation except for random juries.
Five alerts and not one host leaft an explaination why they would leave this crap OP. Not one.

[Bobbie Jo]

103. +1000

[pacalo]

123. You were certainly missed the entire last term you served!

But we were able to see you on the other forums; that you were okay.

[Bobbie Jo]

129. Wow

See, this is why shit gets so damn screwy, and why some question the way a number of the hosts operate. The passive aggressive nonsense lives on.

The never ending personality issues has rendered this system utterly useless. Thanks for the demonstration.

[pacalo]

131. No problem!

I call it sarcasm, but whatever term floats your boat...

[azurnoir]

109. actually yes source does apply to SoP so there was an alternative to a hide

[SidDithers]

112. Hosts refuse to lock for source...

even though they can, and should.

They just don't. Maybe it was sent to a jury, because some Hosts routinely ignore alerts for sourcing.

See the Asian Privilege thread for the most egregious example.

Sid

[pacalo]

119. That's overstating it, Sid.

There could be many reasons that posts aren't hidden. Context is everything.

[bettyellen]

124. There's almost always host popping up to "leave" since a few believe one leave means

you can't lock a post. And there's no shortage of hosts who won't lock anything (unless they have a bias) .

[Doctor_J]

100. newsbusters should be automatically shit canned

Along with Fox, blaze, etc.

[bemildred]

102. It is a non sequitur at best.

The prevasiveness of such entanglements is a problem, but it not likely that it affected that interview, and not particularly meaningful if it did. Snowden got to make his case on public TV, and Clapper got dragged into a public argument with him.

It's tacky to complain in my view.

[MrMickeysMom]

107. Man…. that's crap

Transparency needed on alerter there...

[grasswire]

5. I was told that newsbuster is a RW site.

Sorry, didn't realize that.

I'm always on the side of letting the adults here judge stories for themselves, anyway.

[WillyT]

7. So.. If A Right-Wing Website Said The GW Was A Failure... We Wouldn't Post It Here ???

I highly doubt that.



BTW - I'm 2pissed, on Discussioist.

[pscot]

14. AKA Orson

[mindwalker_i]

118. Cool, I'm me + 90 degrees

[pintobean]

8. It is.

Posting that probably caused several people to go blind, several more to load their pants, and a few more to switch party affiliation.

[geek tragedy]

23. Discussionist seems like a perfect site for you.

There people can post rw crap to their heart's content.

[pintobean]

49. I'll post where I want.

Grasswire and Willy have been on DU a long time. Neither of them are right wingers. Neither of them would try to sneak right wing propaganda onto DU. You're barking up the wrong trees when you take up your Orwellian purity crusade against long time DUers.

[geek tragedy]

58. Juries vote on the post, not the poster.

People should expend more effort vetting the stuff they post here and less time complaining when they run afoul of community standards.

You are free to post where you want, but Discussionist is what you are asking DU to become.

[Uncle Joe]

89. Juries are human, their political passions can and will come in to play.

Abusive use of the alert system will only serve to aggravate that frailty dividing D.U. in to armed camps more intent on destroying each other than advancing the cause of the Democratic Party.

[geek tragedy]

95. The alert system wasn't 't abused here

It was a good hide. Conspiracy theory from a rightwing Republican site- not a particularly tough one even .

I've had 5 of my posts alerted on over the past 24 hours.

[Uncle Joe]

110. Apparently it was a "particularly tough one" grasswire's post

was hidden by a 4 to 3 vote, that's as close as you can get on a decision to hide.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025035372

[geek tragedy]

127. Someone else might have been 6-1. nt

[Uncle Joe]

130. Or it may have never been hidden, losing 3-4, or 2-5, you make my point, being human; juries

do take the poster in to consideration as well.

[Oilwellian]

93. You're really not one to lecture others on community standards

Since you have a few hides as well, for all of us to see.

[pintobean]

106. Is that right?

Juries vote on the post, not the poster.

Is that what you always do? Do you believe that is what all jurors always do?

People should expend more effort vetting the stuff they post here and less time complaining when they run afoul of community standards.

That made me laugh. Remember Meta? We've seen you rack up hidden posts (you currently have 3) and we've seen you do plenty of complaining about hidden posts.

You are free to post where you want, but Discussionist is what you are asking DU to become.

You are again suggesting that grasswire and Willy are right wingers.

[geek tragedy]

113. I get posts hidden because I 'm an abrasive

asshole, not because I post rw horseshit.

No, I am suggesting that your preference that just about everything be allowed seems more in line with how that site operates.

P.S. What do you believe? You never post anything but meta.

[pintobean]

115. I believe

I agree with the first part of your post and disagree with the rest.

[geek tragedy]

120. Ha, well- played.

Last word is yours. But, seriously, try commenting on policy and substance some time. You might like it.

[Aerows]

59. Barking up the wrong tree

is a polite way of putting it.

[pintobean]

66. I have to admit

since he's telling me where to go, it crossed my mind to return the favor.

[Aerows]

68. You can be an acerbic

so can I, but neither of us are rightwingers.

[pacalo]

81. When it comes to a member of the DaBait Team, don't take the bait.

[Jesus Malverde]

121. Good advice...nt

[grasswire]

61. that seems meanspirited

telling longtime DU-ers to leave DU? Because you don't agree with them?

[geek tragedy]

70. No, they are free to post in both places.

The main difference between DU and Discussionist is that rw horseshit is allowed at the latter and generally banned at the former.

We do not need DU to be more like Discussionist.

[grasswire]

76. I believe the rules are Skinner's to make.

(Unless there's been some sort of coup I don't know about.)

Who is the "we" you cite?

[geek tragedy]

83. Those of us who choose to post at DU instead of

discussionist.

Skinner set up the jury system.

[pacalo]

90. He also set up the Discussionist site -- which seems to really get under your skin.

[geek tragedy]

97. Not really. I am able to post here and not

post there.

Discussionist is what DU would be if rw and racist and misogynist stuff were allowed.

Well, allowed more than they already are.

[pacalo]

111. Actions speak louder than disingenuous backtracking. I've seen a number of gripes about it from you.

[rhett o rick]

87. Ah yes. Wouldnt you like it if DU became the BOG? Smite anyone that dares speak out

for a world view that you dont agree with. Try to push people that you dont agree with (liberals) to the Discussionist.

[pacalo]

47. It's already happening. Look below your post.

[pintobean]

55. They can still see their keyboard and monitor.

[pacalo]

63. Desperation can perform miracles of getting around obstacles. Don't underestimate.

[2naSalit]

105. OMG!!

Finally someone has posted an actual image of an ANKLE BITER!!!

Thankyouthankyouthankyou! Ever since I saw that term on a RWNJ protest sign, I just couldn't imagine what an ankle biter would be.

Mystery solved!

[Aerows]

65. I can't believe that pintobean

got accused of being a right-wingnut that would be better served by Discussionist.

Pintobean is acerbic at times, as am I, but he's no right winger. That is ludicrous on it's face.

[pacalo]

75. Common sense & courtesy are becoming extinct, unfortunately.

The incivility makes it difficult to keep one's mouth shut.

[Aerows]

77. I'm having a hard time, Pacalo

I'm biting my tongue.

[grasswire]

80. be careful, Aerows

Itchy trigger fingers are afoot.

And you've had enough bites, no?

[Aerows]

82. I have, indeed

I'm responding calm and polite.

[geek tragedy]

84. He was not accused of being a rightwinger.

His preference is for us to allow rw stuff at DU. He voted that in my poll , and he complains when rw stuff gets hidden .

He is objecting to the rules/policies at DU that make it different than Discussionist.

If he wants a board where "everything goes" then Discussionist seems to be a good fit.

Liberals post there too.

[KoKo]

9. "Benefit of the Doubt" is no longer applicable even for long time posters without

the fragrence of "eau du troll." It seems we have some aggressive allerters and it's hard without a DU List of "Unapproved Sites" to not sometimes pick up a news story that links to a site that some here have on a list that the rest of us can't see.

It's somehow assumed that many of us know what sites are RW and not. I've often wondered how some have time to read all those RW Sites to know they are RW in the first place. All I know is Faux News, Rush Limbaugh and a few others. But, then it is what it is.

[grasswire]

12. yes.....

...just like Willy got locked out of DU for posting a cartoon from The Washiongton Post that happened to be drawn by a cartoonist who (alerter said) is a RW-er. Willy didn't know that.

I don't cruise RW sites. I don't watch FOX. Hell, I rarely watch MSNBC any more either.

And, in addition, I am always interested in MORE transparency and less secrecy

[m-lekktor]

10. it is, but i would have told you or anybody else first and not alerted.

[KoKo]

18. That's true...other DU'ers would often alert the OP giving a chance for

OP'er to check to see if there is a better link or to delete if they can't find one. It's a courtesy.

It would also be helpful to have the "Official Unapproved List" though.

[WillyT]

56. I've Always Wondered About The Encyclopedic Knowledge Of Some Here On RW Websites...

I can name a few sites... yet it seems that there are those here that have many in mind.

[joshcryer]

24. Some DUers did.

The alerter probably saw those comments and then went with it.

[bettyellen]

44. You didn't see the subtitle under the Newsbusters Banner? Exposing Liberal Bias? C'mon now....

Please take five seconds to review your source before posting here- this was RWNJ trash.

[grasswire]

54. nope

It was the story that was interesting. I had googled the name of the political news director for NBC , and that story popped up about him being married to a senior official.

[bettyellen]

60. well, most people here post from sources they are familiar with- to avoid this sort of RWNJ crap

tainting DU w bullshit. The admins don't want it here, and a lot of juries will agree with that.

[pacalo]

45. Were you told in a PM before the alert went through?

And, grasswire, it was an SoP issue & should not have gone to the jury -- your intentions weren't of a mischievous nature. It was the alert forwarded to a jury that's offensive behavior.

[grasswire]

48. nope, no PM

And boy was I surprised!

The info I meant to pass along is factual. Some people who work for the WH have family connections in important media jobs. That's a fact.

[pacalo]

53. That was my first instinct, too -- it can't be denied that the two are married. Good gawd.

[OKNancy]

11. Why do you suppose it is that you get posts hidden?

...and others with thousands of posts never have one hide.
Perhaps the no hide group tries to be civil, and tries not to get too personal or stir things up for the sake of stirring.
Maybe the no hide group tries harder to control their temper, research sources, and be a better DU citizen.

[WillyT]

13. I Think It's Because It's Easier To Hide In The Agreeable Herd...

Those that cause no discomfort to the herd are always welcome, and accepted.

Those that challenge the wisdom of the herd, will get the wrath of the herd.

Fairly common...

[OKNancy]

16. Yes, but who is the herd?

One other thing the no hide group does... they don't get involved in silly conversations about unimportant topics.
Have a good evening.

[pscot]

17. Someone said they're like a school of fish

They can turn on a dime, in unison and go into sudden feeding frenzies.

[840high]

29. Probably true.

[geek tragedy]

27. The herd objects to rw crap--roughly 85% of the

site has indicated they don't want it hear.

Try respecting that dynamic instead of complaining about it.

[pscot]

38. Where does the 85% come from?

What are you counting to get that number? Or did you just make it up?

[geek tragedy]

41. Poll

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025030258

Newsbusters is per se rightwing propaganda.

[Union Scribe]

52. That's cute

I've seen a number of your "anti-RW" voting bloc post actual RW ideology. I guess you can be anti-union pro-war pro-corporate authoritarians and be on your side as long as they strenuously object to cartoons.

[geek tragedy]

64. You are making false-statements about my belief

system, apparently in an effort to deflect.

If people want to read conspiracy theories from fucking Newsbusters, they will go to discussionist.

[Union Scribe]

91. I don't even know your belief system

what I know is that you offered up a context-free push poll and are using its results as a cudgel against "right wing" content, and it's funny because I've seen some of those respondents post RW ideology.

[geek tragedy]

96. Are you denying that Newsbusters is

rightwing content?

[Union Scribe]

98. What was posted wasn't.

I don't click every link, know every cartoonist's biography, etc. I've never been to "Newsbusters" and have only heard the name a few times here and there. What was posted was not right wing. Lots of other things posted here are right wing though. I wish you'd aim your crusade at those.

[geek tragedy]

101. Everything at Newsbusters is rightwing.

In this case, it was a conspiracy theory. Really a twofer.

[Doctor_J]

104. no they don't. They object to anything anti Obama

From the right, left, or center

[SixString]

15. The self-appointed Praetorian Guard.

[treestar]

20. Too much meta

Skinner is absolutely committed to juries.

[bettyellen]

21. Let's not do MORE meta bullshit.

[geek tragedy]

22. Stop posting rw crap. Problem solved. nt

[SidDithers]

35. How hard can that be to understand?...

How hard is to check your source before positing it at DU?



Sid

[geek tragedy]

36. Some people think they don't have to respect

the 85% of DUers who don't want rw bullshit posted here.

Do they know about Discussionist.com?

[WillyT]

37. So... What Does One Do With Penny Pritzger ???

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022789289

[geek tragedy]

39. Criticize her from the left, citing

non-wingnut sources.

[elleng]

31. I don't keep score,

but I don't understand why it happened today (unless there was a more recent one tonight.) One I'm aware of was foolish, I didn't read the alert or votes, but that's my opinion, having posted on the thread.

[RobertEarl]

33. I've been riding 4 for a while

Had a fifth once upon a time.

I need a better class of fan club members.

And like you say Willy, those that make the herd think, do get the herd's knickers in a twist.

Two things should be done: First a judge should look at any close hides and determine the veracity of the hide. Your ""World's most famous hide"" would have, i believe, been struck down by such a judge. Most hides ride a very fine line and due to misunderstanding and sometimes just herd mentality, hide happens.

Two: once someone votes to hide an individual's post, they can't serve on a jury of that individual again for a long time. In real world, it works that way. No court would refuse a challenge of a jury member for two different trials of the same individual. DU software is set to be able to exclude members from serving on a particular member, so it should be rather easy to make this happen.

[L0oniX]

34. Everyone alert on someone in 5 ...4 ...3 ...2 ...1

Can we all agree to alert on WillyT? Ok ready ...in 5 ...4 ...3 ...2 ...1

Aw come on now ...no one wants to play ...

[sabrina 1]

46. Soon that small minority is all that will be left here, then they will be the majority.

See you on Discussionist, so far the juries there have been pretty fair. People aren't jumping to hide everything there yet.

[grasswire]

51. makes ya wonder why the herd isn't over there...

.....arguing with wingnuts instead of OTHER DEMOCRATS.

[dreamnightwind]

125. That is an excellent point - eom

[Aerows]

57. I have 4 n/t

[flvegan]

62. Why do you think that there are so few

Long timers here anymore?

A purge here, a purge there...then a collective of idiots can bleat down the rest. Get in lockstep or get out.

[hobbit709]

69. I've never been one for blind unquestioning adoration and obedience.

[flvegan]

71. I have and am.

Do I need the sarcasm doohickey?

[blkmusclmachine]

85. You kicked out of the DU Obama Fan Club/Group, too?!?!

[PowerToThePeople]

67. Results are in

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
On Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:45 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Let's Keep Score Here... Grasswire Just Got A Second Strike...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025035784

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is ridiculous. Meta is dead and GD is not this person's individual forum to endlessly complain about any perceived "slights" he feels have been bestowed. Completely inappropriate for this forum

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:48 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I should hide because, META. but 50% of GD is META now it seems. I am not willing to hide this META unless all META gets hidden.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Baaaaaaaah!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: alerter can go suck eggs. turning alertds into meta is better.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

I was #1

[WillyT]

73. Thanks For The Heads-Up !!!

[grasswire]

74. sorta proves Willy's point, eh? nt

[PowerToThePeople]

78. I got 60 days off for this one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4773390

[yellerpup]

86. Disruptors have learned to exploit the jury system.

Not new, but more obvious than ever.

[murielm99]

117. What happens with three strikes? n/t

[pa28]

128. Bullshit hide but using the jury blacklist feature could have prevented it.

I know you'd rather not use it but in light of a small but dedicated band of alert humpers, source police and all around bed wetters it's a good idea.

It'll take you five minutes and I'm confident you know exactly who they are.

[ucrdem]

132. Locking. Complaining about jury decisions violates the GD Statement of Purpose.

It's one of only a few thing that does:

Statement of Purpose: Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news. No conspiracy theories. No whining about DU.

Thanks for understanding.