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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs there that much difference between McCain
and this kid who was in Afganistan? Is a POW a POW?
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Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)What is your hard-on for McCain right now?
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)McCain is worthy of any and all contempt directed at him:
Maddow jabs McCain hypocrisy on Bergdahl: The ‘Rosetta Stone’ of what’s wrong in D.C.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025052478
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Also, I had no idea about the Maddow jab, nor McCain talking about Bergdahl.
His previous post was quite disgusting, and I'm glad he self-deleted, however.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)orders when flying his doomed mission, and that put him where he was when he was shot down. I don't know if that's been substantiated, though. Overall, no one knows what this young man's mindset was when he left his post, and until we know what happened, best to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Sgt. Bergdahl was technically not a POW because there has been no congressional declaration of war for whatever the fuck it is we are doing in Afghanistan. And there are questions about his actions and motivations. But there are questions as well about McCain's conduct during his captivity as the linked article makes clear.
thucythucy
(9,113 posts)In fact, there hasn't been an actual Congressional declaration of war since 1941.
I knew there had to be an article like that
hughee99
(16,113 posts)
larkrake
(1,674 posts)indicating then he had a mental flaw, certainly a personality affliction, disliked by his peers for his arrogance. To be fair, the third plane was shot down, supposedly-cant tell, as McCain was a liar all his life. As a POW, he did talk and the movie is hard to believe. The armed services needed a hero-sort of a Jessica Lynch type of story, and his daddy was the Admiral or something.
frylock
(34,825 posts)coljam
(188 posts)wow that was what I was talking about , McCain is a fraud. He is NOT a war hero ,his record was made up by his father and his character is bad. That was what I was trying to say in the post thead I deleted.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)then you need to read your posts before posting because all you did in the OP of the thread you deleted was to attack McCain for being a POW.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)I clearly remember that deleted post. He didn't attack McCain for "being a POW", he attacked him for behaving dishonorably while in captivity. A perfectly valid contention and not deserving of all the crap he took for posting it.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)I do have a problem with attacks on McCain the POW.
What did McCain do dishonorably while in captivity?
tularetom
(23,664 posts)But several former high ranking officers who were also held by the North Vietnamese had very little good to say about him.
http://www.laprogressive.com/mccain-the-war-hero-has-no-clothes/
You can read for yourself and draw your own conclusions.
My brother, who served as a Navy lieutenant in Vietnam at the same time as McCain was in custody there, says he was well known among the officers and his reputation was lower than whale shit. And my brother is a right wing nut who has never voted Democratic in his life. He just could not force himself to pull that lever for McCain.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)What I am opposed to is being critical of him as a POW. The opinions in the link you provided and your brother's opinion are immaterial to the OP's post/thread that started this discussion about McCain's alleged misbehavior as a prisoner in North Vietnam.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)I could find you a lot more links that back up the one I furnished but you won't read them.
You seem to have a hardon for the OP so I'm not going to try to change your mind about that.
Have a nice day.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)All I am looking for are links that prove McCain behaved dishonorably while a POW in Vietnam. Tbe original OP atta ked McCain the POW. Without evidence, and links, I find such posts despicable.
Do you have any links substantiating the OP's assertions?
tularetom
(23,664 posts)I'm not one to post multiple links, but I turned on my google machine and typed in "McCain acted dishonorably as POW" and immediately found a dozen articles backing up the one link I posted earlier.
You can do it too, if you want to.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Many of the men broke. McCain broke. These days the military recognizes it and due to the Vietnam experienced changed the training in escape and evasion school from never ever talk, to hold off as long as you can especially first 72 hours.
Many of the POWs went on to have serious mental issues and the suicide rate was higher too. It was guilt over breaking the code.
I actually think part of what ails the Senator is what he did. He has been making that up since he came back home and been seeking to win that war (by proxy) ever since. It is his war, and lord he has a guilty conscience.
Many of the men of the Nam generation never forgave McCain, and thought he escaped punishment and a court martial because who daddy was. And he should have been grounded after plane two. But due to his, and other POW experience, later generations are now trained differently. Ironically it was the Senator who triggered some of that. The switch in training started in the 1970s. But, he would never screen for a star, and the reason was not his POW years, but his performance before he became one.
I wish he was honest with himself and sat down and wrote a pour your heart out memoir. The writer in me would love that. He would make a good template for a few complex fictional characters. And incidentally it would be good for him, but also for historians.
His attacking Berghdahl....is purely coming from a very dark place in him. It is a hell, in my opinion, that I wish on nobody.
I know that empathy and all that. But when you look at what angers the man...he deserved the WH. He honestly believes that. First it was taken from him by a silver spoon who never served in Nam and went AWOL. Then it was stolen again by that upstart from the next generation who never ever made the same sacrifices he did for the country. The first one angered him, the second one it was just an outrage.
Yeah, yeah...motive, it is fascinating.
Not justifying McCain, before anybody says that. But over the years I have been trying to get it, why the flip flops? He desperately wants to lead and fit in, and be one of the boys. And this explains, at least to me, most of John McCain, and I am no longer surprised by him, at all. I should admit to feeling sorry for him though. What a hell to continue to live in.
As to the flyers of the Nam generation, like your brother, no they have not forgiven him for breaking the code...and being the son of a highly decorated Admiral. The rest who broke and were not that well connected, quietly went away.
I needed someone to stick up for me ,Ithought I was crazybecause these guys were saying McCainwas ok
coljam
(188 posts)his record is made up .While he was a POW while under control of the VIEtNAMESE many said he was a collaborate.So now tell me what was good about John McCain?
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)under the brutal torture. They did read aloud what the Vietnamese guards made them read aloud.
They decided that after they broke, they would again resist until they could not resist any longer.
McCain could have been released years earlier. He refused unless all of the POWs were released at the same time.
I am not a fan of McCain's politics. I am opposed to bashing McCain the Vietnam POW.