To those who dislike #Occupy, or consider disliking it due to anything you may call impolite

[Fire Walk With Me]

...what if the forces so desperately functioning against it, win?

What if we go back to business as usual?

Banks foreclosing at whim, with impunity; ending the call to remove money from politics; food and energy prices rising due to Goldman Sachs speculators; the NDAA and other attacks against the bill of rights not being fully rejected...and, with a report that one half of the US citizenry entering poverty, to end the newly-formed conversation piece of "Income equality"? Much less any forum in which the majority may have a voice or KNOW they are creating positive change?

There are many issues #Occupy has managed to truly begin to bring to sanity. Banks are beginning to negotiate on toxic loans, the conversation has changed to income equality, the homeless and rejected are again being discussed as should be in any compassionate society, the unemployment rate for college graduates at something like 25% and climbing, the usury of student loans and university fat cat paychecks, unions and union strength (this at a time when they are thanks to Reagan etc. at the verge of death), the impunity of nation-wide police brutality...

What if we go back to business as usual? What are a few vacant lots and mic check'd photo op speeches compared to going back to riding that particular bobsled downhill to dystopia? That we are even discussing #Occupy demonstrates that it is having an effect, in spite of police brutality and MSM demonization.

#Occupy may act in ways of which the majority may not approve. The majority who need everything to be friendly and peaceful. Who forget that the powers that be are at war with #Occupy because they threaten the status quo of corporations as people and endless corporate monies in politics. Those who are happily starving millions through hiking up food prices through commodities speculation (same as they're doing with oil), are happy to see the majority flinch over a port shutdown targeting the worst malfeasance...the bad guys win if you flinch at anything that will either hurt the bad guys, or force the bad guys into the general conversation. They would be overjoyed, and would laugh mockingly, if the 99% told #Occupy to stop bothering the nice speculators.

This is a peaceful revolution, although it may have its louder moments. The bad guys demand that it does, and they will have victories. Ignore them. Stay on target. We have changed the conversation, we are changing the direction of the world and are returning its voice. This is as important as voting.

Sitting in your armchair, judging an attempt to bring freedom to the world, you are at risk of discarding the very thing that would free you. I do not speak for #Occupy, no single person does, but the gist is there. I know that some Democrats will feel threatened by any change or challenge to the system, that some will outright reject such in hopes that things will be made better by doing the same thing over and over, and that some will be turned off by what they see as noise and attitude on the part of the protest. Well, it IS a protest, against that which must change or else. It is a joyous thing, but it must also have its toughness, against that which would kill it, and further enslave us all. I am reminded by a fine DUer that fully one third of the colonies did not support the revolutionary war. Hopefully we may accomplish this thing regardless, and in spite of.

I know that delineation here at DU shall only increase, as it is increasing world-wide along all lines. This is the Trend. Whatever your chosen position, please continue working to force positive change. We have seen that a few tents on a foreclosed property re-taking by its unlawfully evicted owner can force banks into sanity and fairness. Here's hoping that you will all also force the problems into sanity and fairness! It is true: The will of the people shall not be ignored. That is key.

[aquart]

1. Love OCCUPY. Thrilled with the way they learn and adapt.

I feel hopeful for the first time in way too many years.

[tblue]

24. Me too!

I'm so grateful for them.

[rhett o rick]

2. I support Occupy. nm

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Here is a perspective from history

Here is the perspective you need to have.

For party activists, who see politics ONLY through the prism of republicans vs democrats, and it has become a fight between good and evil, OWS is a direct challenge to that world view. If ows was a nice kid and allowed itself to become a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democratic party, then it would be ALMOST ok. Most of the folks here (and at OWS) do not understand how lefty this is... one reason party elites have not tried to co-opt it, after a few failed tries. But this is why it is pulling elites to the left, kicking and screaming.

See local friction between Ray Lutz, a party activist (and a progressive) and OWS is partly this. OWS does not want to play that game.

Here is some real perspective from history... 1\3 of the Colonies did NOT support the revolution. They were the very rich of the time, and at the end left for places north or back to the home country. The evacuation of Boston was partly about that. 1\3 supported it, fought for it. bled and died. And 1\3 tried hard to remain neutral.

You are seeing a similar dynamic. For as many people here who openly support OWS there is an equal number who could care less and want to go on with their lives. And then you have the party activists and Republicans trying to shut it down. Few revolutions have most of the population involved.

But here we have a small but vocal MINORITY who keeps demanding what are the goals of OWS? It does not matter how many times they are told... they keep making the same silly demand. They have something at stake.

Now as to the NDAA and other bills. Quite frankly most Americans don't have time, nor know what is at stake. Partly this is little education. Partly, as an occupier put it. we had a full summer of Obamacare rammed down our throats, but the (corporate) media never really dealt with this. So most folks are NOT even aware what is in that bill. And sadly, this is the way it usually is. The guys who started the ACLU were in the same spot. They were a very loud, willing to go to jail for it. INFORMED MINORITY.

This is why I get frustrated, but not with the mushy middle. Them they can be reached, to a point, and educated and like the movie the Patriot, will pick sides when the war comes to them... but with those who have something invested in this, mostly psychological, this that they'd rather see OWS just go away. But the problem is not the 1\3 that is not involved in this and is just trying to survive. Power is a strange thing. Realize though that the PARTY is starting to realize they'd better pay attention and a few elected officials are starting to visit local occupy encampments. Mine is an example of that, she went on the 10th, for the Human Rights Campaign. She has yet to take the next step... shut up and listen... but at least she took that time. And then she got occupied...

As to the unions, believe it or not, most of the unions do get it. This is the last gasp. We fail... there goes the advances of labor.

(no I am not going to retype it, just edit it)

[Fire Walk With Me]

4. ...

[brooklynite]

12. I don't "Demand" anything...

But here we have a small but vocal MINORITY who keeps demanding what are the goals of OWS? It does not matter how many times they are told

I ask what their demands are to make a determination as to whether they have a hope of accomplishing something other that raising awareness of the problem, which they've accomplished. What they've not accomplished is directing that awareness at one or more specific solutions which, as much as some people here seem to deny, will have to be accomplished through the political process, which means electing people to office (Democrats, unless you can point to a viable third party or independent) and pressuring them to accomplish specific things.

Our election process begins three weeks from today. President Obama or a Republican will end up leading the nation in 2013. I'm going to spend my time getting President Obama elected, along with Elizabeth Warren, Darcy Burner, Tammy Duckworth and other progressives. I'm not going to focus my attention on a movement that doesn't seem to want to do the same, isn't (so far) developing a proactive strategy to solve any of the problems it's brought awareness to, and unfortunately seems fixated on "occupying" physical ground as its primary focus.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. You do that'

I'll keep my eye on the movement that is actually doing what social movements do in the US... a hard corrective. While you do that. I will keep my eye on the other side of the coin for history.

As is, since they are registering voters, which I know is shocking, and even getting arrested for it, I guess you are correct and they are truly outside the system. If you ask Assistant Chief Boyd, SDPD, I am sure he will even agree with you. I mean these dirty hippies are REGISTERING VOTERS.

The horror, I know.

(By the way, not that it matters much... MOST OCCUPATIONS are NOT physical occupations... just don't expect your elite corporate media to point this out... for example THIS COUNTY has twelve occupations last count... care to tell me how many are actually PHYSICAL?) That be ONE. Now I am not good with math, but 11 not physical seems larger than one.)

[Fire Walk With Me]

14. Ah...protesting malfeasance and not shutting up about it IS voting.

It clearly tells the system to shape up or we won't allow it to continue. Hence the port actions against Goldman Sachs, the ongoing #Occupy Foreclosures, etc.

We are sending a very clear message of NO MORE. And the politicians are responding.

I'm not knocking voter registration, voting, etc. by any stretch. We each do what we can, to insure a better future.

[2pooped2pop]

26. You have not kept up with Occupy if you

think that Occupying physical ground is still it's primary focus. That's just it's visible arm. However, the spring will most likely bring about the largest OCCPATION event ever seen.

I do think they will play a part in the elections, though don't expect them to run out and support Obama. I think they will play a larger role in congressional, house and local elections. I don't think there is anyone running for president that can be seen as doing for the people, opposed to, for the corporations, so I don't expect any occupy support for any of them.

Yes, I will still cast my vote for Obama but only because there is no one else. I would like to see a less republican and corporate ass kissing president myself.

[KharmaTrain]

32. Well Said...

I can relate to the frustrations that have led to the "occupy" movement...and am glad to see people getting off their tailbones and making their discontent be heard. That's the first step...but it appears there's some who feel this first step is sufficient or that those who want clearer definition of their objectives and goals are called ney-sayers.

For "occupy" or any movement to have any lasting and positive effect, you have nailed it...they must be political and get involved in the process or face lots of frustration.

Cheers...

[Bluenorthwest]

33. Last time I checked the Four Seasons was open and no one was lynching their

customer base. I recall that you were concerned with Four Seasons diners getting some sort of trouble and that did not manifest. Frankly, you do not understand OWS. The election is a game in town, not the only one. Think it through. When both Parties oppose my equal rights, and I still need to support one of them, another way of expressing political will has to exist, it will spring up to fill the gap left by two Parties too close in policy on many issues. If you want to see Party politics popular again, address that crap. "Marriage is Sanctified" No, it is not. When some politician tells you that you should laugh in his face. Not mollycoddle that nastiness. If you want us all to play in the Party, the rhetoric of elimination and discrimination has to stop.
I note that the same crowd that calls for OWS to present perfected plans for progress also ironically accept that Obama needs to take lots of time to get around to maybe supporting equality again. Yes, when my rights are the issue, it is 'progress is always slow and change takes time' yet for OWS, it is ' they had 3 months, why is it they did not change the whole world yet'? Sort of inconsistent metrics. Naff, selfish, inconsistent metrics.
Let me know when you barricade the Pool Room for the final stand! So amusing, really.
Centrists are standing there, right next to Newt, saying 'Sacrament' and you expect me to stand with that? No thanks. When pigs fly.

[LoZoccolo]

5. I didn't really read your message, but you seem to be setting up a false opposition.

That it's either whatever they want to do, or life as it existed before their protest, and those really aren't the only two choices. It was really cool that they pushed all these economic issues into public attention, but it seems like they're spending more time defending themselves than putting the issues out there, but if we could remind them of that they could continue to influence public discourse. It's not like an election where there are only two practical choices.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Read post number three

no, it is not false, it is a historic phenomena... and part of the arc of social movements I keep talking about.

[TheWraith]

9. Sorry, but you're wrong.

The successful social movements ARE the ones which integrate themselves into politics. The ones that don't fail. OWS is taking the latter course.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. that is why it is registering voters

and actually running candidates.

Okie dockie

By the way, this early you cannot tell it's failing.

Sorry.


by the way I expect you to tell me they are doing neither of these two things...



Why a local San Diegan went to Jail for registering voters. No, serious.

[randome]

20. Can you provide a link about the San Diego arrest?

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Not one but many

http://eastcountymagazine.org/node/8006

http://eastcountymagazine.org/node/8018

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=268735373174964

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/30/9116622-occupy-voter-registration

I could go on, but I think you will understand why this is a local small time scandal.

By the way he was REGISTERING VOTERS. And yes, he has been quite active with the OCCUPY movement.

Oh and it gets much better once you read the articles as to who OWNS the property. As they say... plot thickens and there is California Law as to WHY you can register voters even in PRIVATE property... never mind this is CIVIC CENTER PLAZA... you want to understand why occupy? Well perhaps now you will get some of it.

[randome]

22. He was arrested because building management did not want him setting up a table.

It doesn't have quite the same impact as 'arrested for registering voters'. It was private property, he didn't have a permit and it appears he was doing this on his own, not as part of OWS.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. WHOOSHH!!!!

California Statue is quite clear on that... there is CASE LAW.

Or are the owners above the law?

And yes he was arrested for registering voters. Live with it, or not, I don't give a shit. In fact, none of us has been able to find where those registration forms are.

Free clue the cops should have turned them over to the registrar of voters... none of us has been able to find out.

Here


Former San Diego City Attorney Mike Aguirre, in an exclusive interview with East County Magazine, called the arrest a violation of Title 42, Section 1983 of the Civil Rights Act, which prevents the state from denying voting rights, as well as the First Amendment constitutional right to free speech.

“Every San Diegan, whether the most conservative Republican or the most liberal Democrat, should be concerned that someone registering voters could be arrested on the city’s civic plaza because Republicans and Democrats register voters there, as do all parties,” Aguirre said. “This is the most constitutionally protected activity that you can engage in.”

Aguirre said registering voters is a protected activity on both public and private property open to the public. “In this case, it is so obvious that this person was singled out for political beliefs,” he said. “This kind of excess really gives us the opportunity to draw people’s attention to the dangers of a police state…Is there any member of the City Council that’s going to speak out?”

http://obrag.org/?p=50347

[2pooped2pop]

27. I can though, tell this early

that it's winning. Occupy has already won. If it does not one thing more, it has changed the world. It has changed what we talk about and care about.

May Occupy continue until all of government works solely for it's people.

[Zalatix]

11. Elizabeth Warren may prove you wrong. n/t

.

[TheWraith]

67. Um, no, that would be proving me RIGHT.

Unless you think running for US Senate is a non-political act.

[i_sometimes]

56. If politics was worth

anything any longer, then yes. But as it stands, why bother attaching OWS to a failed system?
That's why I side with OWS, the two party, bought and paid for politicians are worthless.
Not saying D=R, no. But the system itself is fucked. We had Wyden just this past week siding with Ryan...really? No thanks.

[TheWraith]

68. They said the same thing about abolition in the 1840s.

That the system was too corrupt to work with. That was the official position of the largest abolition group in the world at a quarter million strong.

Instead, a group of a few dozen broke away and got into politics. It was the latter group that actually ended slavery. The former group was consigned to the dustbin of history.

"Oh, politics is too corrupt" is simply wrong. Always has been. It's an excuse for not doing the hard part of change.

[i_sometimes]

70. I do not

think that what took place then could take place now. And I am taking your word for it that what you state actually happened and could be verified.
But starting at local City Council races, then getting progressives into state wide offices, then into the House or Senate, do you have a guess at the time line for this? I would think years and years.
We don't have that kind of time, do we?
I don't think we do.
And I doubt we have the money to get progressives elected any more against CU and other interests.

I honestly think this system needs to fall, just do away with it.
And start over.

I live in a small, conservative county. Lots of older folks, lots of entrenched good ol'boys.
No way to get any one elected that would promote any thing but the status quo.
I am no longer idealistic, no, more along the lines of "to hell with it".

[TheWraith]

71. Read up on the American Anti-Slavery Society.

It's a stellar example of the total and utter failure of the "system is too corrupt/nonpolitical action is best" platform.

And yes, progress takes time. It took the Liberty Party, that splinter group, 25 years to accomplish their goal. But progress has always been slow, and it's never been accomplished by saying "well, that takes too long." Not to mention people have been reiterating the same belief that everything was about to crash and be wiped out in some form throughout the entire 20th century: the 1930s and the depression, the 1950s and McCarthyism, the 1960s and the hippie movement, the 1980s and the "greed is good" culture, etcetera.

Pretty much one of the biggest lessons you can get from history is this: things keep going one way or another, and progress rarely makes itself happen.

[i_sometimes]

72. Done!

I currently have 11 tabs open
And no, what happened then will not happen now. Third parties, fourth, even fifth, transformations, conventions, etc that took place then? We can't do that now, if so how?

Look at the shit you get if you even mention third party here at DU.

I have to disagree with you, OWS is something I liken to the Rainbow Family (who will be actively involved come spring), in that forgiveness is better than asking for permission.

And frankly, I don't have 25 years to see change, nor does my 8 year old.

It was enlightening to know about the violence these abolitionist groups met with at their gatherings and conventions. The shutting down of free speech, the hangings, the burning and looting.
No, not much has changed but the ability to change.

Thanks for taking the time, I did learn a few things. :hugs:

Oh, not to say I will not bother in getting better people into office locally, I will, it is a start. But at a National level, no.

[2pooped2pop]

29. we've been waiting a long long time

for something, anything, to change this country. You say Occupy, or back to the old shit are not the only choices. What other choice you got? I haven't seen anyone anywhere come up with one thing different to change this fucked up world. It's easy to talk change on a keyboard but what actions have you seen that would suggest there is still another viable alternative?

If you go to the camp, you will notice that while not all problems have an answer, these people will amaze you with their ideas. They will amaze you with their tenacity. And they will amaze you with their love and peacefulness. (something us older ones have to practice now and again as we have been knocked down so many times that our initial response sometimes is to stand up and knock somebody else down.)

Anyway, what is this magical third way that you have planned?

[Zalatix]

6. Occupy all the way! n/t

.

[Starry Messenger]

8. k&r

[pacalo]

15. I can't think of a better chance of getting the change we need than through OWS.

Keep the pressure on, OWS. I wish I could be there with you!

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Buy then some warm clothing, no serious

they can use it.

https://donate.firedoglake.com/weatherize/contribute

and you can feel good about helping

[Fire Walk With Me]

17. Your support is more powerful than you may realize.

[Zorra]

18. Group A: DLC/Third Way whatevertheyares, and republicans, are generally critical

of Occupy, and seem to want occupy to fail.

This group supports global free trade, free market capitalism, war, Wall St., the suppression of labor and labor unions, corporate rights, and more conservative social programs.

Group B: Traditional Democrats, and socialists, generally support OWS and seem to want Occupy to succeed.

This group supports fair trade, main street, peace, workers rights and labor unions, human rights, and more liberal social programs.

Group A is more conservative.

Group B is more liberal.

Group A does not generally identify with Occupy.

Group B generally identifies with Occupy.

Occupy is beyond the political sphere, but has much more in common with worker friendly Democrats that support more liberal social programs and human rights.

This is how it appears, as a general overview, from my perspective at DU as a Democrat and Occupier.

Keep hope alive.

Occupy.

[Fire Walk With Me]

19. ...

[emulatorloo]

41. That seems to be it in a nutshell

Thanks for laying it out so cleanly.

[2pooped2pop]

25. I support Occupy 100%

I support this movement. Even if there is a part here or there that Imight not think is the best way to go, I still support each camp and each camp's decisions. I will give them extra leeway in those decisions simply because they are the hope, they are the ones doing something to change the situation. They are my Boo. They help me to sleep at night.

This goes for anonymous too. They might certainly do something that I think is a wrong move. Yet, I will still support them because they are doing.

There is much riding on this movement. My support will remain.

Thank you Fire Walk for posting on the movement so frequently.

[treestar]

28. What is a force against it?

Maybe a few cops? City ordinances?

No one is opposing their right to protest.

There is no revolution happening due to their activities.

We will work on the elections to get as many Republicans defeated as possible. That might be useful.

[Bluenorthwest]

34. The 2010 elections? Did you forget to work to defeat the GOP? Or perhaps the

time has come for something more, something that leads to actual defeat of those GOP candidates, rather than them taking the majority for us. Sorry, hard for me to see that last cycle as reason to repeat the same methods, tactics and cynical stylings that tripped us up last time.
The moderates like to say 'God is in the mix'. Guess what? OWS is in the mix, and OWS does not oppose my equal rights. OFA does. Guess who I stand with? Who stands with me?
So you go and do what you did last time! Others want to win this round. 2010 was a pathetic failure. Later, rinse, repeat? Really?

[Fire Walk With Me]

38. You cannot be serious.

Maybe a few cops? 1400 police attacked #Occupy Los Angeles. New York mayor Bloomberg calls the NYPD his private army. Oakland mayor Quan repeatedly called in surrounding agencies to help brutalize Oaklanders. OakFoSho, a livestreamer, walked down police lines and called out the agencies names as he went, one time counting 11+ external police forces.

No one is opposing their right to protest? Please say that to Steve, who was arrested a couple of days ago in LA for overhearing police concocting a story of violence to frame someone they'd just arrested...and Steve gets a $25,000 fine and a felony charge...

http://occupylosangeles.org/?q=node/3047

No revolution? If we are discussing this at all, a revolution is happening and you have noticed it.

Defeating republicans? Fine. What about the democratic mayors of the cities exhibiting the worst brutality against #Occupy? Seattle, Los Angeles, Oakland, Boston...

Here is Scott Olsen, Veteran for Peace, who was videotaped standing away from police lines, yet look what they did to him. This is one small example, you must have missed the bloodied and arrested in all those cities over the last three months:

[randome]

40. Taking over public spaces for one group's use is NOT the same as conducting a protest.

[Bjorn Against]

60. Well you may be right in the sense that we have the right to be in those public spaces

We all have the right to go to parks, but some people seem to think if we spend too much time at the park they need to send in riot police to kick us out. I wish people would understand that the public has a right to use the public parks and using riot police to kick out members of the public who voices an opinion in the park is just wrong.

[jtuck004]

43. What's the difference, few cops, 1400. No difference. /nt

[Fire Walk With Me]

39. And take a glance at this article about corruption in our government:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/19/1046972/-Anonymous-Uncovers-Night-Raid-Equipment-Maker-Donations-From-NDAA-Supporter-to-Sen-Rob-Portman

Anonymous singles out Sen. Rob Portman (R-OH) for receiving a particularly large sum from companies and PACs lobbying for the NDAA. From the RT report:

Robert J. Portman...we are truly disturbed by the ludicrous $272,853 he received from special interest groups supporting the NDAA bill that authorizes the indefinite detention of U.S. citizens on U.S. soil.

Even in Washington terms, over a quarter million is a ridiculous amount of money from special interest groups supporting an issue to any single legislator. Congressmen have been bought for far less, with around $50,000 considered a serious ante at anyone's table, and much less merely keeping you in the game.

Then RT reports:

“Among the supporters of NDAA are California-based manufacturer Surefire, L.L.C., who won a $23 million contract from the Department of Defense three months ago.

[99Forever]

30. Reality tells me..

... that "voting for" or even "working for" and "supporting" politicians that will be bought and paid for almost immediately after taking office isn't going really change a damn thing, for the betterment of the 99%, that is. The "system" is broken, as has been shown to us time after time. At this time, the only political movement that offers to address the real world problems I, my family, and my friends are facing, is Occupy. I wish it weren't so, but that is the harsh reality. Soaring speeches and a bare minimum of lip service to life threatening struggles a large and ever increasing segment of this Nation face every day, just aren't going to cut it any more. We NEED our elected officials to do the right thing and stand up for us, yet, day by day, the embittered partisan bickering only gets worse, and worse, and worse.

There is no more time to waste on finger-pointing and jockeying for political advantage, the very future and perhaps even whether this Nation has a future is at stake.

The President was absolutely correct about one thing for sure, this is not a game, at least not to those of us who always seem to be the ones who are set up to lose no matter what we do or say.

We're fed up and aren't going to take it anymore.

[Huey P. Long]

31. FWWM is correct. At this point, it is OWS or die. You will be crushed to support Empire

and corporate elites.

[daleanime]

35. We will make mistakes....

but the biggest mistake would be stopping.

[Fire Walk With Me]

36. Kick

[BobbyBoring]

37. I fully support #occupy

And if I didn't have a health issue, I would be out there with them.

Throughout history, the proletariat has rebelled when the balance of power got out of hand. I thought that up until now, Americans had been dumbed down to the point they would not rebel. #occupy has proven that not them are

[deutsey]

42. kick in support of Occupy

[otohara]

44. Occupy Woke Up This Dumb Country

things are changing - loopholes are being exposed and in some cases - like in Colorado - no longer will Goldie Hawn and Governor Hickenlooper get gigantic tax breaks by claiming to be farmers -

[TheKentuckian]

46. 99% of the angst is because Occupy has not thrown in with the Democrats

which implies that Democrats are part of the problem, which some folks won't begin to admit.

[i_sometimes]

48. Spot on.

We need more of this.

[SammyWinstonJack]

50. +1000

[KG]

57. word!!!

[i_sometimes]

47. A proud K and R 56...

I am really starting to like you FWWM!

[ProfessionalLeftist]

49. Occupy is our only hope.

I fully support them, and and think they're brilliant.

[barbtries]

51. i love the way they make noise

and get in people's faces, and care about everything. i think this movement is our greatest hope, a truly historic undertaking. thank you for posting.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

52. Occupy is our only chance at a civil nation.

[DirkGently]

53. A worldwide movement can't be condemned b/c someone thinks some "were rude." Stupid to suggest.

Rude? Really? Rude is the problem? We should abandon or dismiss the most vital, active, widespread response to the worldwide destruction and theft wrought by the owners of the status quo because someone claims someone was "rude?"

As far as that goes, they should be rude. Polite's not getting it done. Please and thank you and where is the voting booth please has not helped. This is not the time to select the salad fork and dab the lips with a napkin.

People are pissed. They're not getting un-pissed any time soon. They are reminding the powers that be in this country that when they suppose their "constituents" are banks and defense contractors and oil companies, that they are wrong, and that the needs of the people they are in fact to represent cannot be ignored. POLITELY or otherwise.

The bashing is predictable. OWS does not slot neatly into party politics. It does not support the notion that the anointed representatives need our money so THEY can fix things. OWS points out, inconveniently, that "they" cannot. This is not the accepted paradigm. It does not fit into the Business Plan.

It's not fucking polite.

It's not supposed to be.

[Vanje]

54. I support Occupy , 100%

with feeling!

[robinlynne]

55. how sad that you need to defend the 99% and oWs on this forum. but good for you for having the patie

patience to do so!!!!

[NorthCarolina]

58. This is Democratic Underground. Nobody here would "dislike" #Occupy. nt

[SecurityManager]

59. I do not "dislike" them however I do DISLIKE

"Battlefield" "Takeover"

ahhh winter will settle in January and sleeping in the streets will stop.

Wait I do dislike them!

Write letters, start a blog, make phone calls and go home!

[i_sometimes]

66. Noted.

But no.

[applegrove]

61. The OWS movement used passive resistance to garner support from the 99%. They

should continue on in that way. Because they have been successful in waking up the middle class in the USA, and all those independants who used to vote republican.

[girl_interrupted]

62. I have never seen any politician endure what the protesters of OWS have

Yet I have seen OWS protesters willing to be beaten by police, pepper sprayed, gassed, shot at with rubber bullets, hit with tear gas canisters, jailed, suffer serious physical injury, not to mention verbal abuse. And come back for more. To give up the comfort of home, to sleep on the ground, exposing themselves to the elements. For those who are not unemployed, who go to school or go to work, or who have other responsibilties and who still show up and offer their support. For those who take up residence in the parks and in the tents, to share what they have with each other and the homeless. And for what? Not for the perks of public office, but for what they truly believe in, fundamental fairness in a corrupt system. To finally give the 99% a voice.

I've never seen any politician do that. Politicians listen, especially when election time rolls around. Then they promise all sorts of things. They want to hear that you have their backs. That YOU will FIGHT for THEM. Then they get into office and the fight stops.

Then it's time for them to do what's politically expedient for their careers, not what's always good for the people who voted for them. No sacrifice necessary.


I like that OWS has no "leaders", that they consider everyone to be a leader, that what everyone has to say, counts.

I like that OWS is not committed to either party. Because as far as the 99% is concerned, they feel both parties need a wake up call.

Yes they make noise and yes they cause inconvenience sometimes. But democracy is messy.

Too often I think we let politicians off the hook. We are afraid to complain. We accept things we shouldn't. We stay silent. I don't think that does them or ourselves any good. If we expect or settle for less than we what we elected them for, they will do just that....give Us less. Maybe they think we don't care, maybe they don't care. I don't know.

But the days of being silent are over. People are burned out, it's getting harder to survive. We hear so much about the 99% making sacrifices. Yet what do the 1% and the politicians sacrifice? I'd really like to know.

So, I'm thankful for OWS. Thankful to meet and be with people who feel the same as I do. Thankful they don't owe their souls to the higher ups. That they are willing to suffer so many indignities, to try and make things better for so many of us.

I think its very easy for some people to sit in the comfort of their homes, behind their computer screens and criticize. What you want them to do. That they should do this, but not that. Well you aren't there having to deal with the real stuff. You can open your fridge, eat what you want, post what you want, sleep in your bed, all in the comfort and safety of your home. No police kicking your a** for what you believe in. You don't have to give up a thing. But you know what? Even that doesn't matter. Because there are people who are willing to take the risks to bring about change. So fire away, it will deter no one.

It's a new movement, and like all new movements it will go through growing pains. But I'm not as interested as it becoming part of the god awful political process we have now, the obscene amounts of money needed to get into office and the monied interests you have to be beholden to. No, I'm more interested in seeing regular people having the opportunity to speak up. Freely, not ignored, make some noise, and have the those in power know they aren't kidding anyone anymore. Maybe when it's in their faces, they will listen, maybe some real change will come about. It has to start somewhere. We have legitimate concerns, they need to be addressed, and we aren't going away.

Spring is just around the corner.

[Bjorn Against]

63. Great post, you should make it an OP so more people see it.

[Fire Walk With Me]

64. I agree. There are some wonderful posts in this thread

but this one takes the cake.

Okay, there is cake for everyone else too, everyone is included

[Generic Other]

65. Thanks for all you have been doing to promote #Occupy

People are waking up. There is a reckoning to come. The promissary note the government passed off to the people has been returned marked "insufficient funds."

And we say "No Sale."

I don't think they can assume it is business as usual anymore.

[Uncle Joe]

69. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Fire Walk With Me.