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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWTF? Cutting Off Water to Citizens of Detroit?
Published on Wednesday, June 18, 2014 by Common Dreams
Groups Appeal to UN for 'Humanity' as Detroit Shuts Off Water to Thousands
'By denying water service to thousands, Detroit is violating the human right to water.'
- Sarah Lazare, staff writer
(Image: Wikimedia / CC)As thousands of people in Detroit go without water, and the city moves to cut off services to tens of thousands more, concerned organizations have taken the unusual step of appealing to the United Nations to intervene and protect the "human right to water."
After decades of policies that put businesses and profits ahead of the public good, the city now has a major crisis on its hands, said Maude Barlow, founder of Blue Planet Project and board chair of Food & Water Watch, in a statement. By denying water service to thousands, Detroit is violating the human right to water."
The Submission to the Special Rapporteur was released Wednesday by the Detroit Peoples Water Board, the Blue Planet Project, the Michigan Welfare Rights Organization and Food & Water Watch.
It calls for the "state of Michigan and U.S. government to respect the human right to water and sanitation" and for shut-offs to be halted, services restored, and water to be made accessible and affordable.
The report comes on the heels of the Detroit's city council's Tuesday approval of an 8.7 percent increase in water rates, part of a long-standing trend that, according to Food & Water Watch, has seen prices increase 119 percent over the past decade.
This rate hike follows an announcement in March by the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department that it would start turning off water for accounts that are past due. According to a late May Director's Report from the DWSD, there were "44,273 shut-off notices sent to customers in April 2014" alone, resulting in "3,025 shut-offs for nonpayment, and additional collections of $400,000."
Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr, who was appointed to power by Michigan Governor Rick Snyder in March 2013, has aggressively pursued privatization and austerity measures across the city. "Nothing is off the chopping block, including water utilities, which are being considered for regionalization, sale, lease, and/or public private partnership and are currently subject to mediation by a federal district judge," reads the report.
"The Detroit Peoples Water Board fears that authorities see peoples unpaid water bills as a 'bad debt' and want to sweeten the pot for a private investor by imposing even more of the costs of the system on those least able to bear them," the report continues.
struggling with high unemployment, a poverty rate near 40 percent, and a foreclosure crisis that has devastated and displaced people across the city, hitting Detroit's African American community especially hard.
"When delinquent corporate water lines are still running without collection of funds, it demonstrates a level of intentional disparity that devalues the lives of the people struggling financially," said Lila Cabbil, President Emeritus of the Rosa Parks Institute, which is part of the Peoples Water Board. "Where is our compassion? Where is our humanity?"
_http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2014/06/18-7
____________________
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Uncle Joe
(58,972 posts)Thanks for the thread, KoKo.
ananda
(29,052 posts)Ever.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)and how they have been treated for decades is nothing short of shameful. And state-wide I don't think people in Michigan overall have much compassion for the people of Detroit. It's really painfully sad.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Maybe Canada will invade Detroit and turn the water back on.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)Yep.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Why yes, it is. Too bad most of Michigan proper and 70% of America is paying no attention what-so-ever --- what's happening in Detroit. That is until it comes to their door next.
One more thing -- on the Retiree "Cut Your on Throat" "Grand Bargain Dragon" "Deal".....here's the skinny:
1), If retirees vote yes on this crapola -- they lose 4.5% of their pension, are subject to a crawl back anytime into the LONG future the funding levels fall below 80%, are NOT allowed to pay back the crawl-back, lose life-insurance and only will receive a $125.00 stipend for healthcare.
2). The Michigan Constitution Section 9, Article 24 says this:
Sec. 24.
The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby.
Financial benefits arising on account of service rendered in each fiscal year shall be funded during that year and such funding shall not be used for financing unfunded accrued liabilities.
3). Why is Number #2 Important? Well, if retirees are scared into "Cutting Their Own Throat" by voting for the Grand Bargain -- DESPITE the clear as a bell Constitution Language stating: The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby -- this move NULL and VOIDS Article 9, Section 24 in Michigan for ALL Public Retiree Workers (State, Local, County).
Furthermore, (and this is the sneak move), it allows for a LEGAL CHALLENGE of ANY STATE Constitutional Language stating in part or whole: The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby.
The Austerity crew (Rick Snyder, Kevin Orr, Federal Mediation Judge Gerald Rosen and more) know EXACTLY what they are doing -- it's the City of Detroit Retirees -- scared to death by the threat of a 30% cut which Constitutionally (State-wise) could never likely happen that have no clue.
This is how crapola rolls in Michigan...
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)scheme. Milton Friedman would be proud. Makes me want to puke.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)They cut it off. Why should the people of Detroit be an exception?
truth2power
(8,219 posts)<sigh>
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Every place I have lived, every single one, you either pay your utilities or they cut you off. No exceptions. I've had them cut off myself. I have a friend who loses his seems like every winter. It's not unique to Detroit, it would be weird if it wasn't that way.
So what do you propose? Should the citizens of Detroit be on the "Pay if you feel like it" plan?
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)should be in service of serving the people. People need water. What happens when one's water is cut off. I've had my power cut off, but you live days without water, that's it. It could literally be a death sentence to the destitute.
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)And with this model in mind, corporations pay more since they are making profits off of a public resource. And we have a system that takes into account the ability of people to pay.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)The corporations that haven't fled to pay more (thus encouraging them to leave), and the non-existent taxpayers to pick up the slack, all so that Detroit can implement a "pay if you feel like it" plan. What could POSSIBLY go wrong?
And when the last remaining water line fails because there's no money to repair it, what magical solution will you offer? Detroit's problem is that they have a major city's worth of streets and plumbing and wires and vacant buildings, but little money to do anything but slow the inevitable collapse. They can't even afford to put out the fires. The city, just like the people who live there, is broke.
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)I think it should cover expenses. With Detroit having been driven into the ground, it is a different story.And I don't advocate a pay if you feel like it. Not what I said at all.
What could POSSIBLY go wrong? It's already happened, through no fault of the citizens.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Detroit's problems are local. The problem that most of the people with money pulled out -- leaving only the poor behind. And now there's not enough money left to take care of the roads and necessary services and infrastructure. Detroit is LITERALLY a city that cannot afford to put out burning buildings. The issue is not that the few remaining corporations get tax breaks (they likely get nowhere near what they could get if they threatened to move) but that there aren't enough of them remaining. There's nothing remaining.
Detroit is just screwed.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)forthemiddle
(1,393 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)Thank you for making it plain to me.
Your some one with nothing of value to add to the conversation.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)NOLALady
(4,003 posts)PATRICK
(12,229 posts)(Bring your shovel), bottled water provided at discount.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Lochloosa
(16,137 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)especially when there are no roots in other places and there is absolutely no guarantee that a move will result in a better life.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)alfredo
(60,096 posts)bluesbassman
(19,437 posts)Oh yeah, what jobs? Unemployment is at 40%.
alfredo
(60,096 posts)But a sad one.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)It is the way it works across America. Someone has to pay for the service. It is costly to deliver water to the residence of an area. I do think that places like Detroit need to have some for of forbearance on water shut offs for those in need. Emergency action needs to be taken. With unemployment well into the double digits and a destroyed city somehow the government needs to ensure water to its citizens. I say emergency action because the city cannot simply shut off water to those who need it but can't currently afford it, while at the same time they do not have the staff in place to deal with the enormous paperwork necessary for those in need to prove their need. It really shouldn't be that hard during normal times to determine whose needs are truly legitimate and those who just want to take advantage. During this crisis it is much more difficult. Possibly mail a form with a pre-stamped envelope inside where the individuals fill out their current income. Then they would be sent back and people would have to review them. That takes manpower.
Once again, I think your question is fine for debate. I think it must be debated.
crim son
(27,477 posts)etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)The city owned water department is a regional water supplier, but it is a city department and is facing the exact same hardships as the city
Welibs
(188 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Proud Liberal Dem
(24,539 posts)if they can figure out a way to do it.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)To expect it to be free is not reasonable.
I would like to see general taxes pay for more, but there needs to be a cost based on usage. If not, people would water the shit out of their lawn, waste water while showering, etc. by charging something, it provides an incentive for people to not be wasteful.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)repeatedly of funds promised and collected for it. Funds which were counted into city budgets. Funds which somehow never materialized...thanks to the GOP controlled State House and Governor's mansion.
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)With all the crap that is in our municipal supply, it has been deemed not safe for people with immune disorders.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Good luck with that.
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Even if your groundwater doesn't have crap from fracking in it, doesn't have fertilizer run-off, doesn't have toxins leaking from some business or other or molecules of hormones or other drugs, it probably is home to a variety of microorganisms that won't 'play nice' with your body. That's why stores that cater to hikers sell things to purify water if you don't want to simply boil it before drinking.
delrem
(9,688 posts)Unless a person is living in a desert, the getting of naturally purified water to their house isn't intrinsically problematic.
But, if one lives in a political environment where industrial polluters have next to the only say re. environmental concerns, then you're going to have problems down the line. Like, w.r.t. your drinking water, which will no longer run out of a tap.
Speaking just for myself: I'm totally opposed to the agenda of the industrial polluters, which is to give them an entirely free ride in committing crimes against the environment that no single person, beyond the totally extreme psychopath, would sign on to.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)most of the expense is from sewer treatment. It's charged on one bill - you pay per gallon used rather than gallon flushed - but that's where most of the city's cost is.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)plastic bag, that they'll bill you for, over the head to prevent you accessing their resources without remuneration.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/09/16/the-most-important-story-you-didnt-hear-last-we/195893
Detroit is currently under control of an emergency manager, not elected by the people of the city, but instead appointed by Governor Rick Snyder.
Gary Brown, the city's chief compliance officer who reports to the emergency manager's office, when asked by local Detroit Fox affiliate about the blackout seemed to imply that it was intentional and done to "send a strong message:"
We did start calling our customers prior to taking them down and asking them to comply and turn off their air conditioners, but they weren't responding as fast as we would have liked them to, and so we had to send a strong message by turning the power off.
Among the buildings that lost power was the courthouse that was on "high alert" after a prisoner escaped earlier in the week, and evacuating major public buildings on the anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks apparently wasn't considered. Even more disconcerting was that Brown seemed to be laughing as he answered this question.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Works for the $$ Money Bags Mayor now as his Communications mouthpiece.....
That's how crapola rolls in S.E. Michigan....
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)PBS had a special on it, featured Detroit and Stockton, CA, IIRC.
Check it out: http://www.pbs.org/pov/thirst/
I think the link above is it.
Protect your local ownership and control of water at all costs!
KNR.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)...over the world's largest fresh-water aquifer.
DU Thread from 2013: Bush Family Evil Empire join the rush to privatize the world's water supplies
They want to be the Saudis of Water.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)I think Detroit is mentioned because the water supply was privatized and rates shot up.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)Currently available on Netflix.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)What would be the monthly bill for water and sewage? $25? $50? Even if it were $100 per month, those who are delinquent have chosen other things as higher priorities. These customers are not being denied the "human right" to water, they are being denied free water.
Pay your bill, and the water comes on. Do without something that won't kill you if you don't have it -- you cannot live without water, so pay your bill.
This is not difficult.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)smallcat88
(426 posts)Particularly the part about water prices increasing 119 % and a poverty rate of 40%. In case you missed the point this is about going after poor people for the horrific and unforgiveable crime of being poor. You can't pay someone with money you don't have. And you can't get jobs that aren't there.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)It's easier for the empathy challenged to commit a fundamental attribution error. Makes them feel better about themselves I guess.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)They HAVE NO clue.....Like for instance the UNEMPLOYMENT RATE in the City of Detroit.....is (DRUMROLL)
23.0% of the HIGHEST MAJOR CITY Unemployment Rate in the Nation, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics April 2014 report.
Again, clueless.....
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)My post is about priorities.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 19, 2014, 12:40 AM - Edit history (1)
between rent and a water bill, you pay rent because without the roof over your head, that flowing water isn't getting to you anyway. That's no choice at all. You need to develop some empathy. Just because you have the middle class luxury of choice . . . look beyond your own circumstances. Seek to understand someone else's.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Have you ever had to chose between water and electricity? We had to a few times when I was growing up. Screw your priorities theory.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)When folks are broke -- including sometimes eating food out of garbage cans and taking shelter under a bridge.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"My post is about priorities..."
More accurately, "presuming the priorities of other individuals of whom I have no relevant knowledge..."
Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #21)
840high This message was self-deleted by its author.
liberalmuse
(18,673 posts)so goes the rest of the country. It's incomprehensible that this is being allowed to happen. This country is seriously, seriously broken, that we would allow our own to be treated like this.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)It's an crumbling, crime-ridden, corrupt, toxic, rust belt shithole.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Tell us how you really feel "Chris" or better yet, tell us what side of the fence you stand on.....better yet, don't because its' more than obvious by your "comments".
P.S. -- See the Racial Division that has separated the African-American majority populace of Detroit to the Caucasian filled suburbs -- in which some hate with a passion the People of Detroit.....
Also, have you ever been to North Rosedale Park with your "It's an crumbling, crime-ridden, corrupt, toxic, rust belt shithole" statement? Curious....
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Want some? Go down to the creek with a bucket and get all you want. When the city provides you with water they have to pay the cost of pumping it out of the ground or out of a river, treating it so that it meets health standards, and pushing it through miles of pipes so that it gets to your home. When you receive a water bill this is what you're paying for. A city water department is a communal enterprise. Everyone is assessed their pro rata cost of pumping, treating and distributing that free water. So if one user fails to pay his share, the burden increases on the other users. If 3,025 customers fail to pay their bills the burden on the remaining users becomes onerous. If 44,273 users fail to pay their share, the burden on the remaining users will cause more of them to fail to pay their share and the system will quickly spiral into insolvency.
So the City of Detroit has a difficult decision to make here. They cannot afford to operate a water system where a large percentage of their customers don't pitch in and help pay the costs so they have two choices. They can either shut off those customers who have failed to pay their water bills or they can simply shut down the entire system and deprive everybody of water, even those who have paid their bills all along. They can't keep operating a water system for free.
Now, if the City wants to forgive those water customers who are delinquent, they can transfer the money to operate the water system from some other portion of the city budget, and I think it would be appropriate to do so. However then the question becomes, what are they going to eliminate in order to fund their water operations? Basically, the only things local government can afford to fund out of their general fund budgets are public safety operations (police and fire). Want to fire some cops so some of your citizens can get free water? Want to get rid of some firemen? I wouldn't want to be on the board that had to make that decision.
It may sound harsh, but the city is doing the only thing they can under the circumstances.
Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)Sure. Such a simple solution...
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Right?
tularetom
(23,664 posts)The water customer should not be burdened with the responsibility to remove contaminants dumped in the water by large users. No question about it.
But here's the problem. In many cases, the city that treats the water has no jurisdiction over the polluters. Suppose somebody is dumping some vile substance into the river 500 miles upstream from your town. The city fathers who operate your water system lack the power to force them to clean up their act or pay the cost for you to clean it up. It requires the enforcement powers of a higher level of government, state or federal, and strict enforcement of environmental regulations is definitely on the back burner right now.
Clean water is a human right. But clean water delivered to your kitchen at sufficient pressure to be pushed out of your tap costs money. And those who deliver it should be compensated for their expenses. Municipal water departments aren't trying to make a profit but they should be allowed to break even.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Bullshit.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)If they continue to give water to those who don't pay for it, eventually other customers will stop paying too. When enough others stop paying, the city will be unable to pay the cost of pumping the water through the pipes. They'll be forced to shut the system down, go hat in hand to the state or federal government and beg for money, or do what everybody here seems to be convinced they intend to do anyway and sell the water system to a private company.
The real question isn't why the city can't give clean water away free to it's customers but rather why so many of its citizens can't afford the cost of water. And why society has broken down to the point where a large American city is becoming part of the third world.
But that is way beyond my pay grade and I suspect, yours as well. Calling bullshit won't help the city of Detroit keep it's water system in operation so I'm interested in hearing words of wisdom from you.
N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,992 posts)Many, many more people get their water from the Detroit Water System than just the people in the city. We all pay for it. I live in Oakland County, 45 minutes from the city, I get and pay for the same water. I would gladly subsidize the people who cannot afford to pay. Hell, I do already. The major portion of the systems customers live outside the city limits.
GIVE THEM THE WATER!
Edited to add, those cities outside the city are some very affluent cities. Not all but a lot.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)When they have to raise your rates to subsidize those who don't pay, is that still OK?
When even more customers learn they can get water for free and quit paying their bills, and they have to raise the rates again, is that still OK?
When every water customer except you figures out they don't have to pay, and you are responsible for the entire operating cost of the water system, is it still OK with you?
Where's your breaking point?
If they want to formalize a multi tiered rate schedule based on the customer's ability to pay, that's fine, if the customers will accept it. But they shouldn't just give water away when their ordinances require payment.
superpatriotman
(6,268 posts)There was a free-flowing (both literal and figural) spring there we would visit often. Is it still there?
N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,992 posts)Although I live a little north of Northville, about 10 miles. Without a little more info on location, if you can, it may be hard to know.
ymetca
(1,182 posts)Because the water meter is connected to the electrical meter, which is connected to the fossil fuels extraction industry --the most profitable enterprise ever to have existed on Earth (at the expense of the Earth). Basic physics doth apply.
It's not a problem of not enough to go around. It's a problem of believing those "little green tickets" we call money have any real value. I am afraid we will all very soon find out the hard way that they don't. Then what will we do?
You cannot serve two masters...
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Workers. What has went on in Detroit is AUSTERITY in the USA at its' finest. Denying retirees a RIGHTFUL pension guaranteed by the State Constitution, Leasing Park Land given specifically to Detroit --- to Michigan by force making NO PROFITS in return, a City Council controlled lock, stock, and barrel by an Emergency Manager appointed by the Governor -- and the E.M.'s "RIGHTS" to dismiss the whole City Council when or if he feels like it, massive City Worker layoffs, a Mayor who $$ Purchased his way into the seat, residents stealing metal and copper from the top of building air conditioner units for a $200 scrap sell, race baiting by Media Corporations in Detroit and on and on.....
And now cutting off the People's Right to Water.....while the rumor mills says DETROIT WILL HAVE A $1.8 BILLION dollar SURPLUS announced in October 2014 --- just in time for Gov. Snyder's re-election. Can you say OCTOBER SURPRISE?
Here a story that clearly explains the Retiree "Rob and Grab" attempt, from our blog - Independent Underground News & Talk
The Economic Basis of Careful Review For or Against "Detroit's Grand Bargain" Deal
City of Detroit retirees are facing a life transformation choice. Whether proposed cuts are 4.5% or 30% in monthly pension, any reduction in revenue has real life consequences.
Utilities, fuel oil, car repairs, food. rent or mortgage obligations normally are not negotiable with creditors to reduce by 4.5% or 30% in view of the debtor's monthly income has decreased. In fact, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) May 2014 report:
"The Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U) increased 0.3 percent in April on a seasonally adjusted basis, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Over the last 12 months, the all items index increased 2.0 percent before seasonal adjustment.
The indexes for gasoline, shelter, and food all rose in April and contributed to the seasonally adjusted all items increase. The gasoline index rose 2.3 percent; this led to the first increase in the energy index since January, despite declines in the electricity and fuel oil indexes. The food index rose 0.4 percent for the third month in a row, as the index for meats rose sharply."
Let's break these numbers down a bit. From April 2013 to April 2014 all items: Food, Utilities and Shelter, Medical Care, Airline Fares, New Vehicles, Used Cars or Trucks, and Recreation rose 2.0%. During the previous period of study - March 2012 - March 2013, BLS cites the Consumer Price Index rose, "1.5 percent increase for the 12 months ending March." Thus, the average cost of living increase from March 2012 to April 2014 in prices for basic consumer goods, necessaries and services rose 3.5%."
Detroit Retirees are being asked to reduce monthly annuity income by 4.5% or more, but notwithstanding eliminate any future cost of living pension adjustments over the course of their lifetime."
Read more: http://www.reachoutjobsearch.com/2014/06/oped-does-voting-for-detroits-grand.html#ixzz352uDgMLE
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)We just wish folks would pay attention to what's happening in Detroit because it will (you can bet on it) morph to a town near you, next.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)People here who point and laugh while Detroit suffers make me ill.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)As is a serious situation on what's going on in Detroit with life altering consequences.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Detroit got huge during an industrial period that no longer exists. The middle class looks to have moved to the suburbs or away entirely.
This is what a decaying civilization looks like on a micro level. At some point, the city has to change. The tax base fled a long time ago and left behind an unsustainable anachronism.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)malokvale77
(4,879 posts)every day in this country.
And people right here on DU rationalizing it is even more disgusting.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Sudden poverty is a crisis for millions. In the past the nation and the states would pull together for the common goodno more.
Now we live in an Ayn Rand world where Grover Norquist decrees we will have no additional taxes.
cstanleytech
(26,495 posts)cutting them off if the people lack the money to pay it right now?
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)assistance in the form of cash allotments, why not use a check-off system equivalent to 1,000 gal/mo. per inhabitant at each residence? The check-off amount could be low with the price/per gal. rate rising above the min. level. Further, public taps can be installed for emergency use. In this fashion the utility can receive SOME income (even if low), while folks can get sufficient water.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Capitalism. Endless growth. It all comes to this in the end.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)criminals were bailed out, rather than prosecuted, did anyone expect that we could continue as a first world nation where the rule of law applies regardless of status?
Water should be free, but remember a few years ago when it was predicted that 'water would be the new oil' once the vultures figured out how profitable it would be to control it?
SHAMEFUL. But we do need outside intervention as things grow more and more dire for millions of Americans.
Whoever is responsible for this, should be JAILED, it IS a violation of International Law, not that anyone cares much anymore about the rule of law in THIS country.
delrem
(9,688 posts)Without water, life as we know it doesn't exist.
Of course, one could choose otherwise and spend all $$$ on war.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Don't pay your bills and your water gets turned off.
Can anyone name any city in the us that water service is for free? I have never bhad free water service in any of the places where I have lived.
Arcanetrance
(2,670 posts)If you're living in a city with 40% poverty and double digits unemployment. Chances are good there's no money to pay the bill. But hey you're a nice guy right I mean it says so in your name
valerief
(53,235 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)The CEO of Nestle recently proclaimed that access to clean water is not a human right.
See what we are up against?
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Sgent
(5,857 posts)a water fund to pay for the water bills of those who are destitute, but the current system just supports those who game the system. Its entirely possible that a large number of those 3,400 bills are to people in 1,000,000 homes who are deadbeats.
If you want to provide subsidies to those that can't afford it, then do so by intention. Don't back into it where most people feel guilty and chose to pay their water bill over buying medicine, etc., while you have others (who maybe rich) who chose not to pay because there are no consequences.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Large multinational beverage companies are usually given water-well privileges (and even tax breaks) over citizens because they create jobs, which is apparently more important to the local governments than water rights to other taxpaying citizens. These companies such as Coca Cola and Nestlé (which bottles suburban Michigan well-water and calls it Poland Spring) suck up millions of gallons of water, leaving the public to suffer with any shortages.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)Nestle does bottle Michigan's precious water (something I adamantly opposed ) ... pedantry rears its ugly head as I correct this statement, ".... which bottles suburban Michigan well-water....". Nestle actually bottle water in Mecosta County (Mecosta Township/ Stanwood), which is very rural and fairly poor
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)FYI, I live in Detroit.
Maybe it is just me but I don't understand, and I have had my water shut off (years ago).
Should I be getting my water for free? Should sewage also be free?
Is my ~$40.00 a month bill way out of line with what others pay?
I see the point that corporate water service be dealt with the same as residential. I'm also all for more help for lower income people. I just don't see how this falls on the water department. There needs to be programs to help people who can't pay for water but the idea that the bills just not get paid doesn't make sense to me. Are they really supposed to just continue to provide water and sewage services when they are not paid? If so, why should anyone pay?
By the way, it is possible that many of the houses being shut off are vacant. The numbers need to be looked into a bit more.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)It's the "there need to be programs" part. Have Nestle pay more for Michigan's water they're selling for ridiculous prices, and create some programs, or something along those lines. Everybody needs water for drinking and cleaning. We as a society need to make sure everyone's most basic needs are met, and there is money within our society to do that, but it's harder to get the money from corporations making ridiculous profits than to just shut off people's water.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)but I don't see why it is the water company's responsibility to decide which people should have their bills forgiven and which are vacant properties which should have the water shut off.
Clearly the businesses should be collected upon also. I said that in my first post.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)You are NOT a part of Detroit's 23% Unemployment Rate Ratio. Thus, you have no problem paying a water bill. Also, the average water bill in Detroit is between $100-175 bucks thanks to public hydrants overflowing, the number of vacant properties, the Pension Issue and the lack of real assistance by County Resources of last resort. Oh by the way, Wayne Count is also broke. So make sure to keep your JOB or you might find the tap empty with your morning shower. FYI.....
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)...I have no problem with programs to help people who can't afford to pay their water bills. I just don't understand why it should fall to the people providing the service to simply ignore the debt.
I also find it hard to believe that the average RESIDENTIAL water bill is in the $100 - $175 range. Maybe if you include businesses the average is that high. If you can provide a link to where you got those numbers from I would greatly appreciate it.
Also, some of the houses having their water shut off will be vacant properties. I support turning those off. I'm not sure how that would be done if the water co. was just ignoring bills that were several months past due.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)From the Detroit News March 22, 2014:
"The average monthly water bill in Detroit is about $75. Delinquent bills affect rates for other customers in Detroit, but not in the suburbs, Latimer said."
http://www.freep.com/article/20140322/NEWS01/303220010/Detroit-resume-water-shutoffs-delinquent-customers
Next what is the Mean:
The Mean means average. According to the information above, the AVERAGE Water bill is $75.00 a month.
Taking the mean 2x for a High Water Usage Customer $75 x 2= $150 a month bill.
Taking the mean 2. for a Low Water Usage Customer $75 / 2 =$37.50 a month bill.
Now take into account household size.
If the Household size is 4 with two children under the age of 10 years old, along with 2 adults whom wash clothes three times a week, take a bath or shower daily, wash dishes at least once per day, use water to wash hands after using the personal restroom -- plus factor in REAL LIFE situations in Detroit where the average housing stock was built between 1920-1965 (which means the pluming resources are likely older) --- then YES a family average water bill can easily range from $100-175 per month -- every month.
Any other questions Motown_Johnny?
packman
(16,296 posts)Bravo for your viewpoint and glad to hear from a citizen of Detroit. I wondered about this too and also have a $40 monthly water/sewage bill.
If all decide that free water is their due , the water company will fold and then private companies will take over. Seems like this is the last thing Detroit would want.
I feel for the citizens of Detroit, but this flies in the face of my life experience where I got out and worked several jobs to make sure the water, electricity, and rent was paid.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)I.E. --- This is NOT about you. It is about the People of Detroit with a 23% Unemployment Rate, along with a 40% Poverty rate, topping it off with 119% increase over the last decade in Water Rates--- having their water "life essential" need being cut off in the MIDDLE OF SUMMER.
Thank you!
packman
(16,296 posts)For putting me in my place. Guess comparisons are not allowed. Wallow on in misery.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Or are you wishing more misery on folks in Detroit shut off from a life essential resource, like water?
packman
(16,296 posts)water one day , free. Then winter is here, let's have a thread on free electricity for heating. In between, there's the free food issue another thread- that's life essential surely. Then housing, can't have that free water, food and electricity going nowhere now can we. Life essential? Get real.
This could be a ping-pong thread, I'm coping out from it because you won't see my viewpoint and I'll never agree with you that all should be given without movement from those who are demanding. Migration from misery at point A to relief at point B is always an option and had been done all thru the history of mankind.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Good!
jeff47
(26,549 posts)First, the people running the show have done an utterly shitty job of running the economy, producing a lot of people who have to choose between paying the water bill and rent. They are now shutting off water because of their economic failures.
Second, they aren't cutting off commercial customers who are behind. If it's terrible for consumers to fail to pay the bill, it's terrible for businesses to pay the bill.
Such a program would be in the water department.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Also, part of the problem is that Detroit was once the center of industrialization in this country. That time has passed. The city would lose population and have the type of issues it is seeing now simply because of that change.
I won't try to support the way these changes were dealt with but you can't blame everything on "the people running the show".
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Sure we can. A large part of their job is management of the economy. They can't make jobs magically appear, but they can do a hell of a lot better dealing with the losses.
TBF
(32,327 posts)Water should not be a commodity.
Seems to me this was the plan all along, the new leadership looks as if they have a plan to renovate Detroit and the current inhabitants need to be removed, starving them out it would appear.
Exposethefrauds
(531 posts)Perhaps people will learn a life lesson and stop voting for and hell even being nice to pubs but this is America after all where ignorance is a virtue
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)The Blue Flower
(5,485 posts)Yes, it's somewhat over the top, but the second article down is about Child Protective Services starting proceedings to take kids from homes without running water.
http://voiceofdetroit.net/2014/05/28/mass-water-shut-offs-mass-incarceration-at-mound-road-prison-for-protesters/
Romulox
(25,960 posts)the bigger context of this at all--Kevin Orr and Detroit's leadership's attempt to privatize the water system as a way to finance the city's bankruptcy.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)PRESS RELEASE
June 18th, 2014
Groups Pressure United Nations to Restore Water Service in Detroit
Detroit, Michigan In March 2014, the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department (DWSD) announced it would begin shutting off water service for 1,500 to 3,000 customers every week if their water bills were not paid, and yesterday, the City Council approved an 8.7 percent water rate increase. According to a recent DWSD document, more than 80,000 residential households are in arrears. With thousands of families now without water, and thousands more expected to lose access at any moment, a group of concerned organizations have submitted a report to Catarina de Albuquerque, the UN Special Rapporteur on the Human Right to Safe Drinking Water and Sanitation, urging authorities to take immediate action to restore water services and stop further cut-offs. The report was released by the Detroit Peoples Water Board, the Blue Planet Project, the Michigan Welfare Rights Organization and Food & Water Watch.
By denying water service to thousands, Detroit is violating the human right to water, said Blue Planet Project Founder and Food & Water Watch Board Chair Maude Barlow. After decades of policies that put businesses and profits ahead of the public good, the city now has a major crisis on its hands. It is shocking and abominable that anyone would be subjected to these conditions.
Over the last decade, Detroit residents have seen water rates rise by 119 percent. With unemployment rates at a record high and the poverty rate at about 40 percent, Detroit water bills are unaffordable to a significant portion of the population. Many of those affected by the shut-offs were given no warning. The infirm have been left without water and functioning toilets, children cannot bathe and parents cannot adequately prepare food for their families.
When delinquent corporate water lines are still running without collection of funds, it demonstrates a level of intentional disparity that devalues the lives of the people struggling financially. Where is our compassion? Where is our humanity? asked Lila Cabbil, President Emeritus of the Rosa Parks Institute.
In 2013, Detroit declared bankruptcy and appointed Kevyn Orr as emergency manager, giving him a mandate to get the city back on its feet financially. Orr has since taken steps to privatize the DWSD, and many now believe that the water shut-offs are an attempt to appeal to potential investors. In the Great Lakes region, large, private water companies charge households on average more than twice as much as rates charged by comparable publicly-controlled systems. Moreover, private operation has been linked to poor service, workforce reductions, maintenance backlogs, water leaks and sewage spills.
The Detroit Peoples Water Board, the Blue Planet Project, the Michigan Welfare Rights Organization and Food & Water Watch make the following recommendations:
1. We call on the State of Michigan and the U.S. government to respect the human right to water and sanitation.
2. We call on the city to restore services to households that have been cut off immediately.
3. We call on the city to abandon its plan for further cut-offs.
4. We call on the federal and state governments to work with the city to ensure a sustainable public financing plan and rate structure that would prevent a transfer of the utilitys financial burden onto residents who are currently paying exorbitant rates for their water services.
5. We call for fair water rates for the residents of Detroit.
6. We call on the City of Detroit to implement the original water affordability program.
Read the report here.
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The Detroit Peoples Water Board is a coalition that includes AFSCME Local 207, Detroit Black Community Food Security Network, Detroit Green Party, East Michigan Environmental Action Council, Food & Water Watch, FLOW, Great Lakes Bioneers Detroit, Matrix Theater, Michigan Emergency Committee Against War & Injustice, Michigan Welfare Rights Organization, Rosa and Raymond Parks Institute, Sierra Club and Voices for Earth Justice. The coalition advocates for access, protection, and conservation of water and promotes the human right to water.
The Blue Planet Project is a global initiative that works with organizations and activists around the world to promote water as a human right and a commons. This includes working with local organizations and activists on grassroots struggles to protect democratic, community control of water, and building a movement to see the full implementation of the human right to water and sanitation. The Blue Planet Project is affiliated with international networks including Friends of the Earth International, Red Vida (the Americas Network on the Right to Water) and the Peoples Health Movement.
The Michigan Welfare Rights Organization fights for, and represents, the victims of poverty. We organize to eliminate poverty and to stop the war against the poor. We are working with people to deal with the current water crisis in the City of Detroit by advocating for low income people to demand fair treatment, registering complaints against the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department (DWSD), organizing protests and the DWSD offices and Detroit local government buildings, alerting people to resources when available to help with their water bills, and speaking out on the human right to water in the media and at public events.
[center]Food & Water Watch works to ensure the food, water and fish we consume is safe, accessible and sustainable. So we can all enjoy and trust in what we eat and drink, we help people take charge of where their food comes from, keep clean, affordable, public tap water flowing freely to our homes, protect the environmental quality of oceans, force government to do its job protecting citizens, and educate about the importance of keeping shared resources under public control.
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Orsino
(37,428 posts)JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)Do they have a "human right" to have it delivered at a turn of the tap in their kitchen? Or do they have a "human right" to be able to walk to Lake Michigan with a bucket and get it? Or do they have a "human right" to something in between?
The city does not charge for the water itself, or at least not merely so, it charges for purifying it, and delivering it to their door. Do people have a "human right" to have water delivered to their door?
We need to have some balance in what we claim.
pediatricmedic
(397 posts)No, they don't have a "human right" to have it delivered to their door. It must be close enough they can easily retrieve it, generally about a kilometer.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)Uhm... people are being denied water because they can't pay for it? In America? Seriously?
Okay, does anyone know if there's a way we can donate to the folks who don't have water? If not, maybe we can start an effort, right here, to turn their water back on. I don't have much, but I'd gladly give everything I can for this. Maybe we could start a new fund drive for this?
Kelselsius
(50 posts)We are looking at a major health hazard. We are talking about thousands of people who can't take showers, wash their dishes or flush their toilets.
We are talking about a citywide breeding ground for parasites and disease.
On top of that, there will be desperate people stealing water. Breaking into their neighbors houses and tapping into fire hydrants.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Babies Pay for Detroits 60-Year Slide With Mortality Above Mexico's
By Esmé E. Deprez and Chris Christoff
Jun 11, 2014 12:01 AM ET
Detroits 60-year deterioration has taken a toll not just on business owners, investors and taxpayers. Its meant misery for its most vulnerable: children and the women who bear them.
While infant mortality fell for decades across the U.S., progress bypassed Detroit, which in 2012 saw a greater proportion of babies die before their first birthdays than any American city, a rate higher than in China, Mexico and Thailand. Pregnancy-related deaths helped put Michigans maternal mortality rate in the bottom fifth among states. One in three pregnancies in the city is terminated.
Women are integral to the citys recovery. While officials have drawn up plans to eliminate blight, curb crime and attract jobs, businesses and residents, theyre also struggling to save mothers and babies. The abortion patients awaiting ultrasounds at the Scotsdale Womens Center and the premature infants hooked to heart monitors at Hutzel Womens Hospital must be cared for before the bankrupt city can heal itself.
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Starcats
(19 posts)American exceptionalism -- exceptional cruelty to her own.