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Tue Jun 24, 2014, 01:11 PM

 

5 Things Red State Liberals Want Blue State Liberals To Know

http://www.liberalamerica.org/2013/11/10/5-things-red-state-liberals-want-blue-state-liberals-know/

2) We do fight back! Just because you see a Republican controlled state running amok doesnít mean that liberals on the ground are not fighting back. We are! Mississippi is a great example for every horrible bill you see signed by our Governor there are 30-40 more that people fought to get rid of. Just because you donít see it in the news doesnít mean it didnít happen.

3) Those really bad laws the GOP tries out in red states? Your states arenít immune. I often hear from blue state liberals that they are so grateful they donít ďlive in a state like Mississippi.Ē On the surface, I understand what they mean. I also think they are naive to think the Koch brothers, ALEC, Americans United for Life, the Tea Party, and other groups with far right agendas plan to confine their activities to red states. They do not. For proof, look no further than the U.S. House of Representatives, where the same extreme abortion laws we have seen at the state level are being presented at the federal level.

4) We need your support, not your pity or your scorn. Hereís the thing: we red state liberals get that red states statistically receive more federal tax money than we kick in. We get it. What is not productive is every time there is an article or discussion about something happening in one of our states that the people on our side fight to remind us. We arenít the other side. We are on the team. It isnít helpful in conversations about red states to default to ďI feel so sorry for you.Ē Donít. Itís not helpful to tell us how our states are so <fill in the blank>. Blue states arenít without problems of racism, classism, sexism, homophobia, and oppression. Red states donít own these areas. What is helpful is that we all support each other in making strides in politics and liberal causes.

5) We do exist! Since I live in the very red state of Mississippi, I get this all the time: ďWhere are the liberals in your state?Ē We are here. We are on the ground doing work; we are raising money for candidates, fighting back against horrid legislation and ballot initiatives, working for environmental causes and a host of other things. Just because you see big gains by the republicans doesnít even mean itís a true representation of the states electorate. Look no further than the effect gerrymandering has had on Pennsylvania where, despite a slight majority of democrats, the voting lines are skewed in favor of the GOP.

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Arrow 116 replies Author Time Post
Reply 5 Things Red State Liberals Want Blue State Liberals To Know (Original post)
Scuba Jun 2014 OP
pscot Jun 2014 #1
Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #2
IDemo Jun 2014 #3
Iliyah Jun 2014 #4
myrna minx Jun 2014 #5
Dollface Jun 2014 #6
riqster Jun 2014 #7
Peacetrain Jun 2014 #8
KrazyinKS Jun 2014 #13
derby378 Jun 2014 #26
awoke_in_2003 Jun 2014 #91
A Little Weird Jun 2014 #9
JDPriestly Jun 2014 #65
MFrohike Jun 2014 #72
Scuba Jun 2014 #78
A Little Weird Jun 2014 #98
mentalslavery Jun 2014 #101
flamin lib Jun 2014 #10
AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #11
zipplewrath Jun 2014 #25
AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #27
zipplewrath Jun 2014 #41
AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #50
zipplewrath Jun 2014 #54
AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #55
zipplewrath Jun 2014 #57
AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #58
zipplewrath Jun 2014 #61
AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #64
RufusTFirefly Jun 2014 #67
Blue_In_AK Jun 2014 #71
zipplewrath Jun 2014 #92
Blue_In_AK Jun 2014 #99
zipplewrath Jun 2014 #116
quakerboy Jun 2014 #74
bigwillq Jun 2014 #105
Johonny Jun 2014 #12
Scully Jun 2014 #14
Yavin4 Jun 2014 #15
kairos12 Jun 2014 #16
MissDeeds Jun 2014 #17
wyldwolf Jun 2014 #18
bvar22 Jun 2014 #19
CTyankee Jun 2014 #43
nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #44
mentalslavery Jun 2014 #100
alarimer Jun 2014 #107
mentalslavery Jun 2014 #109
DFW Jun 2014 #20
AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #21
Are_grits_groceries Jun 2014 #24
AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #49
klook Jun 2014 #22
charliea Jun 2014 #23
barbtries Jun 2014 #32
The CCC Jun 2014 #28
tosh Jun 2014 #29
barbtries Jun 2014 #30
Raine1967 Jun 2014 #33
barbtries Jun 2014 #48
Raine1967 Jun 2014 #31
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2014 #34
Paladin Jun 2014 #35
nirvana555 Jun 2014 #38
mokawanis Jun 2014 #63
Paladin Jun 2014 #80
raven mad Jun 2014 #36
Javaman Jun 2014 #37
AlbertCat Jun 2014 #39
nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #45
carolinayellowdog Jun 2014 #40
kentauros Jun 2014 #102
carolinayellowdog Jun 2014 #104
kentauros Jun 2014 #106
CTyankee Jun 2014 #42
nolabear Jun 2014 #46
MinM Jun 2014 #81
HereSince1628 Jun 2014 #47
Stonepounder Jun 2014 #51
rhett o rick Jun 2014 #52
Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #53
MFrohike Jun 2014 #68
iamthebandfanman Jun 2014 #56
Bickle Jun 2014 #59
littlemissmartypants Jun 2014 #60
annabanana Jun 2014 #62
Phentex Jun 2014 #84
RufusTFirefly Jun 2014 #66
McCamy Taylor Jun 2014 #83
RufusTFirefly Jun 2014 #89
nolabear Jun 2014 #86
RufusTFirefly Jun 2014 #90
nolabear Jun 2014 #103
Blue_In_AK Jun 2014 #69
Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #70
blkmusclmachine Jun 2014 #73
countmyvote4real Jun 2014 #75
gwheezie Jun 2014 #76
liberal N proud Jun 2014 #77
Gothmog Jun 2014 #79
McCamy Taylor Jun 2014 #82
Manifestor_of_Light Jun 2014 #115
Phentex Jun 2014 #85
Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2014 #87
RufusTFirefly Jun 2014 #93
certainot Jun 2014 #88
The River Jun 2014 #94
Scuba Jun 2014 #95
carolinayellowdog Jun 2014 #110
mentalslavery Jun 2014 #96
Scuba Jun 2014 #97
Sissyk Jun 2014 #108
YOHABLO Jun 2014 #111
struggle4progress Jun 2014 #112
Scuba Jun 2014 #113
DemocraticWing Jun 2014 #114

Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 01:14 PM

1. K&R

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 01:14 PM

2. DU Rec.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 01:27 PM

3. Thanks from Idaho, it always helps to make those points

I'm not alone here (seen on a recent dog walk):

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 01:58 PM

4. K & R

I know they do exist! Family members in Louisiana, Georgia, and Mississippi.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:01 PM

5. I have it easy in blue Minneapolis. I know it takes *courage* to be a liberal in

a red state. A tip of the hat to our red state liberals friends.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:03 PM

6. No one ever hears about bad legislation you stopped from happening. Stay strong.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:26 PM

7. Good on you all!

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:34 PM

8. Thank You!!! I have beat my head against the proverbial

wall some days with fellow liberals in much more liberal areas than western Iowa. I used to say all the time.. it must be so nice to go have coffee and not have to sit and listen to tea party chatter from 9 or the 10 tables around you..

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Response to Peacetrain (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:41 PM

13. Oh God yes-

You can't sit in a restaurant and not have to listen to the crap. The local McDonald's has the TV on Fox all day long. With a sign on it saying they will not turn the station. They want WW III because then Jesus will come back-I guess.

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Response to KrazyinKS (Reply #13)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:41 PM

26. Use this next time you visit

I find this device quite useful...

http://cornfieldelectronics.com/tvbgone/tvbg.home.php

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Response to derby378 (Reply #26)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:06 PM

91. I would use that everywhere

 

I cant stand TVs all over the place, regardless of content. You can't escape TVs. It seems we are being conditioned to accept telescreens.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:37 PM

9. I very much agree

It really sucks to be surrounded by right-wingers all the time. I try to be a liberal voice in my little corner of the world, hoping that I may make some small difference against the tsunami of bullshit coming from the likes of Limbaugh and Fox News. One of the reasons I joined DU was so that I could interact with like-minded people. So it's a little demoralizing when I see threads or posts talking about "flyover country" or bashing my state or region, etc.

I liked this part of the article:
The bottom line is when people say things like ďwhy doesnít state X just secedeĒ they are speaking about all of us in that state including the liberals. When liberals choose to dismiss and write off the efforts of liberals running for office in red states because ďitís too hardĒ or ďitís hopelessĒ we are effectively saying people in those states donít deserve the same freedoms and opportunities that we believe in. When we as liberals traffic in classist stereotypes about whole areas of the country being stupid, poor, and uneducated we are no better than people who are trying to restrict who can vote and saying itís for the same reasons.

We are supposed to be the big tent group. That tent reaches over red states too. Sometimes we donít feel the love.


But I would like to say that I often do feel the love and I really appreciate the community here. So many DUers post great news stories that I would never hear about anywhere else and I have been exposed to viewpoints that I wouldn't otherwise come across. So thanks!

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Response to A Little Weird (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 12:28 AM

65. Why do you think the liberals in Southern states are not able to get their message across?

Is it really just racism this long after the Civil Rights Act and school integration?

Or is it something else? If so, what? Why is the majority in the red states so, pardon me for saying it, but -- backward? (There just isn't any other word for it.)

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #65)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:28 AM

72. Why can't liberals in northern states get their message across?

Is it really just cluelessness or is a desperate longing for respectability that makes them constantly genuflect to finance?



This isn't directed at you so much as at the thinking behind your post. Remove the log from your own eye before you go chasing after the mote in mine.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #65)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 06:54 AM

78. Don't look now, but Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Maine are not in the South.

 

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #65)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:54 PM

98. I don't know

If I could actually answer that question then I would probably have a more lucrative job as a political consultant. I suspect a large part of the reason is the corporate media, who seems to want to control the conversation. A lot of the most rabid right-wingers I know in real life only get news from Fox. Fox has done a remarkable job of peddling propaganda and sowing mistrust of all other news sources.

I get the impression that the vast majority of voters from both parties are very disengaged and are not very aware of what's going on in Washington or in their own state capitols. This was as true of the people I knew when I lived in California as it is of the people I know in Kentucky. So I don't agree that the majority of people in red states are backward. Many just don't identify with either party and opt-out of the political process.

But I concede that there are many people that could be characterized as backward. And many of them are among the most vocal and the most politically active. They get especially hung up on the issues of abortion and gun control.

I can't pretend that racism doesn't play a part. Some of that is due to the segregated nature of many parts of the state. I grew up in a county that was about 99% white. In such an insular environment, people are not exposed to other races and take as truth what they see in the media. Even today, many minorities are portrayed in a less than positive light on TV and movies. It was even worse when I was a child. When I moved away to college and actually met real people, then it became obvious that people are just people - they became less "other" and more "real" if that makes any sense. A lot of people (especially poor people) never move all that far from where they grew up so they never get this perspective.

The republicans use this as part of their divide and conquer strategy - poor white people get pissed because they feel like they are working hard with nothing to show for it while poor minorities are getting tons of welfare from the government and not working at all. And those that don't get welfare are only advancing because of affirmative action. Of course, these perceptions don't match reality but again, that's because they are falling hook, line, and sinker for the crap that is spewed on Fox News and by right wing politicians.

I am going to stop before I write a book. I wish I had a better answer and a way to turn things around but I'm still searching.

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Response to A Little Weird (Reply #98)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 03:06 PM

101. The answer Wolf-Pac.com

 

We do this, and its over for the red-states. Get money out of politics and the corporate interests that fuck over the red-states are screwed. On all major issues, the country is deep blue when you look at opinion polling. I remember a study once (about 04) that showed that Dennis Kucinich would be the next president if people just voted based upon the issues. Amazing!!

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:37 PM

10. Thanks from Texas. nut

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:38 PM

11. Get rid of the Electoral College

 

...and there will be no more red or blue states. 1 person, 1 vote.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #11)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:37 PM

25. How does that affect the senate?

Red states and blue states come out of predominately House elections, and state level legislatures. Not sure what the EC has to do with any of that.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #25)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:48 PM

27. It affects the presidential election

 

It makes almost every state a 'red or blue' state. It entrenches the two party system, which cascades down to everything else, Federally, State wise and locally.

If there were no electoral college, every party would have a shot at the presidency, and by extension the US congress.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #27)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:59 PM

41. Money

The two party system basically exists because of the "winner takes all" of our elections (you don't need a majority to win most elections) and money. Parties, and their structure, make it difficult to play the game because there is so much money in the two party system.

The EC isn't really much of a problem, it is rare it doesn't align with the popular vote. In the House, gerrymandering is a serious problem, even more so at the state level with state legislatures. And in the Senate, the "two senators for every state" gives a heck of a boost to the minority. About a decade ago I figured that with senators holding the right states, about 13% of the population could fillibuster anything in the Senate. Heck, even in the House the "every state gets at least one" means that some states have way more representation than their populations deserve.

It was a system designed when there were 13 states and the largest was Virginia and the smallest was Rhode Island or something. Now, you've got places like Wyoming and Alaska "on par" with a state like California.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #41)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 06:23 PM

50. If the EC was scrapped

 

Then we would have 'one person, one vote' in presidential elections. Many more folks would come out to vote in this situation. I also believe that voting should be mandatory, with a fine levied to those who do not vote in federal elections.

You are right about why we have this system. They wanted to equalize the voice between rural and urban. They realized (wrongly) that the numeric advantage of city dwellers would dominate the electorate, and they came up with this to level the playing field.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #50)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 08:23 PM

54. Kinda dangerous

Presidential elections are probably one of the few places where this uneven voter distribution works best. The distribution of the US is so concentrated, if it were truly "one person, one vote" presidential elections would be focused on the two coasts and not much else. Something ridiculous like 25% of the population lives (votes) between DC and Boston and San Diego and LA. Throw in the I-4 corridor in Florida and maybe the greater Chicago area, and you've just identified the dominate populations of the US. The rest of the country would truly become "flyover country". The EC forces a more balanced approach to campaigning. There is some unevenness to the distribution, but no where near the House or the Senate problems. You'll note that many small states still get scant attention. Campaigns tend to focus on the largest media markets and many of them just don't qualify. Oh, sure, Connecticut, Rhode Island and the rest of the New England states can do okay because they are in/adjacent to large media markets. But Wyoming and Alaska just don't really make the grade.

We need to fix congress and the state legislatures. The EC is rarely the issue.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #54)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 08:30 PM

55. That was the original rationale of the founders

 

when they implemented the obsolete EC system we have now. The EC is an issue in that it keeps us locked in the broken two party system.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #55)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 08:49 PM

57. Oh no

It isn't perfect, but it has nothing to do with the two party system. That's driven by the "winner takes all" form of election and government we have. It abhors a power vacuum and awards power to the largest plurality, which has the effect of completely marginalizing any "third party" types.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #57)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 08:52 PM

58. Then do tell

 

...how is it possible to break out of the two party system with the electoral college in place? Not possible.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #58)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 09:15 PM

61. Change the entire constitutional form of government

As I say, it is locked into the winner take all/avoiding power vacuums nature of our constitutional form of government. Other governments demand that a "majority" be formed, and maintained. Ours does not. A "one man, one vote" wouldn't change that, as long as the guy with the most votes, but not necessarily the majority of votes, could win. If you want to change the system, candidates and parties must receive a majority of votes to obtain a majority of the power.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #61)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 12:18 AM

64. Thanks!

 

nt

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #54)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:10 AM

67. +1,000 I totally agree

The Electoral College was created for regrettably elitist purposes, but to abolish it now would be to turn elections into the pursuit of the top media markets. The rest of the country would be largely irrelevant. Living in a "flyover state" would be like living in D.C. or Puerto Rico.

By opposing abolition of the EC, I'm not being selfish. I live in one of those aforementioned top media markets. I'd actually benefit. But I fear that our country -- and our democracy -- would suffer.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #54)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:25 AM

71. We don't even get presidential ads up here.

I've lived here since 1975, and I don't think we've ever had a presidential candidate come up on a campaign stop.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #71)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:15 PM

92. It'd be worse under a purely popular vote

If we went to a purely popular vote, it'd be even worse. Unless your state was near a top 50 media market, campaigns wouldn't even bother. They can reach 5 million people on the island of Manhattan faster and easier that in some whole states. Right now, once you've won a state, it doesn't matter how many more votes it can generate. Worse, especially early on in campaigns, if your region/state doesn't generate alot of campaign cash, you'll see even less of candidates.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #92)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 02:30 PM

99. I agree with you.

I've never been in favor of eliminating the EC for exactly this reason. The same goes for the two senators thing.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #99)

Fri Jun 27, 2014, 11:54 AM

116. The problem with the two senators thing

The basic idea is fine, until it meets senate rules. If you normalized the people-per-senator and then looked at the rules, a VERY small minority can block laws in the senate. Look at the distribution of the population and you'll notice that some state have very large populations (FL, CA, TX, NY) but there are many more states that have very small populations (WY, AK, HI, ND, SD, etc.) The senate is controlled by potentially a majority of the states that have a minority of the population. I have no problems with minority PROTECTION, but minority CONTROL is the problem.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #50)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:41 AM

74. While I agree about ending the EC

The kind of people who are aware enough to be bothered by the EC are the kind of people who vote anyway, and the kind of people who don't vote probably dont know about the issues with the EC. I seriously doubt that ending the EC would in itself bring out additional voters.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #50)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 06:18 PM

105. No fines, please.

 

If someone doesn't want to vote, that's their choice.
I feel everyone should vote in every election but, if they don't, they should not be penalized.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:40 PM

12. I tell people I enjoyed living in Texas

and they think I'm crazy. They don't remember Ann Richards was Governor when I move there.

I live in New York and California and there are areas of those blue states as politically backwards as any place in Texas.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:41 PM

14. As a Californian stuck in Texas... thank you. eom

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:42 PM

15. Red State Liberals Are My Heroes

Look, it's easy being a Liberal is San Francisco or NYC or Boston. It takes courage being a Liberal in Selma, Tupelo, or Wichita.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:54 PM

16. Thanks from Arizona.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:00 PM

17. Thanks so much for this

 

I live in the Midwest and not only have to endure rabid Republican ideology at every turn, but also ridicule from Democrats across the country who throw my entire state under the bus. It's not easy. There are some good folks here; many of us struggle daily against the red state mind set and it can wear you down. Honestly, I would love to move, but my husband has a good job he doesn't want to give up, so I endure. It's not pleasant, but the fight continues.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:03 PM

18. Consider us deep cover operatives behind enemy lines

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:20 PM

19. The #1 thing that THIS Red State Liberal wants Blue State Liberals to understand....

...is that there are no Red States. Even Mississippi and Alabama are shades of purple.


LBJ said that The South would be lost for a generation.
Well, THAT generation is over,
and the South is ripe for the picking for a Populist Party that actually delivers for Working People and those struggling to find work.


Besides, The South is BEAUTIFUL,
and belongs to ALL of us.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 05:34 PM

43. Hoping for that! I want you to be so RIGHT on this one...

I, too, think there is a change coming...

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 05:48 PM

44. +2

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 02:40 PM

100. Beautiful does not even begin to describe the south

 

I have never, in all my life, experienced such cognitive dissonance. It is absolutely breath-taking and some of the people are so toxic. Its almost as if the beauty is too much. If the south were deep blue, it would be the best place in the world.

I used to push my students by saying.... imagine unlimited free energy thru the use of a vast solar and wind infrastructure and all of us getting along at the same time. Then I would scream....AHHH, it hurts. And you know what, even the conservative students got the joke. This is what could be.....and it sounds pretty great....and it hurts so bad to know that it isnt and that at times we feel powerless to bring about that type of change.

Thanks for the pick Bvar22, makes me home sick. Im in the great northwest now and its also really pretty, but there is nothing-and I mean nothing (in the U.S) like the architecture and natural environment in the Big MIS. The combination is absolutely perfect and some people are so good at integrating their building designs and landscaping its almost as if they challenged themselves to recreate some "staged" picture.

One random side note, if the south were deep blue, it would be soo vastly superior to the rest of the country in terms of all types of productivity because people can basically do everything all-year. In the north, much of our productivity is either halted or diminished about half of the year. And by productivity I am not referring to just capitalistic productivity but also things such as the productive aspects of different forms of community building and social services. The south will rise again.....like a big blue whale cresting out of the ocean!!

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Response to mentalslavery (Reply #100)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 06:28 PM

107. I have a love-hate relationship with the south.

I hate the right-wing redneck assholes who cling to the past like it was some perfect time. In fact, most of the people glorifying the pre-Civil War south would have been treated almost as badly under that system as the slaves were. Almost. They would have been free, but they would have been desperately poor and just as much under the thumb of the elite. I wonder why they think it was so special.

I do think it is a beautiful place, generally. I love hot weather, hate cold. Love the beaches and mountains. But I HATE the people surrounding me at every turn. I hate them; I truly do. They are stupid and just plain mean. Oh, they can be the sweetest people on earth, to your face. Then they stab you in the back, smiling all the while. I am so tired of my kind (liberal, atheists) being demonized at every turn. I am more than willing to turn my back on whole sections of this country and find some liberal enclave to hide in for the rest of my days. I no longer care if these dumbasses want to vote against their own best interests. When the tea-party nut jobs raise their taxes and they feel betrayed, I just laugh and say "I told you so, you dumbass." I simply do not care anymore. I'm tired of this, so very tired.

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Response to alarimer (Reply #107)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 07:04 PM

109. I've woken up on that side of the bed many a day in the south

 

It is a struggle in the very sense of the word on a daily basis. It can wear a person down so low. Whenever I would talk to many a southerner about solar, which you would think they might recognize as a natural resource to profit from, they would just say Al Gore! blahhh Al Gore ahhhh! Monica Lewinsky!

To which I would reply....Don't let Al Gore decide what kinda business you are gonna have! If you don't want solar because of Al Gore, then Al Gore is deciding what type of business you can have! Because finally I realized that the conservative base is only motivated by identity resentment and any form of accompanied tortured logic. You actually have to wreck the logic to convince a southern conservative of anything because if it sounds too logical then they think they are being tricked. The above shitty logic actually works wonders. Add a sprinkle of yankees aint got much sun, weather sucks up there, we can win that one...and they will be hooked.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:21 PM

20. On behalf of every Democrat in Texas:

Thanks for this!

(and don't we know where you're coming from!)

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:24 PM

21. And something I want red state liberals to know about this blue state liberal

is that when I say 'Mississippi is a republican shithole', I'm referring to the dominant political species, not every last human being within the borders of that state.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #21)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:30 PM

24. But you hit everybody all the same.

We are collateral damage I guess.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #24)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 06:17 PM

49. Well, they do live in the damage at the epicenter of resulting RNC political policies.

It sounded a bit like a slam, but I mean it more in the sense of an overwhelming natural disaster.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:27 PM

22. Thank you from Jawja... Bookmarking in anticipation of the next "Fuck the South" rant,

which will surely come eventually.

On #4 -- One thing people need to realize is that the tax dollars going to "Red" states often go to help out poor and minority communities, the folks we Liberals are supposed to be fighting for.

Also, unfortunately, most Republican-controlled states are refusing funding for Medicaid expansion as part of the knee-jerk backlash against Obamacare. So, in that sense, fewer tax dollars are going to some "Red" states.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:28 PM

23. And we're all in this together...

That's why I really liked it when Howard Dean was the head of the DNC, I like the "50-state" strategic plan and I think it should be revived. Challenge every district where a Republican sits, because ALEC, AFP, and every other Koch supported group is campaigning nationwide. Liberal, progressive, or just plain moderate ideas are under siege across the nation, so lets not grant uncontested power in any single district.
I know the "Fox on TV" syndrome quite well, I see it every time we visit my wife's family in Central Illinois. They may elect Democratic representatives there but that's because of Cook County. Downstate is a different world.

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Response to charliea (Reply #23)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:00 PM

32. it does need to be revived! why doesn't the party appear to get this?

concede NOTHING! ever

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:50 PM

28. 5 Things Red State Liberals Want Blue State Liberals To Know

I hear you. Even if I now live in a very Blue state. I've lived in very Red states. What I do object to is the constant elephant trumpeting of the residents of those very Red states on how they are so much more morally superior than the residents of Blue states.

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Response to The CCC (Reply #28)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:59 PM

29. What?

Say that again, please.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:00 PM

30. 6. it's more distressing to be a liberal living in a red state

than it is to be a liberal living in a blue state. okay, pity us a little, no more than we pity ourselves...signed, California bleeding heart living in NC the land of the republican supermajority run amok

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Response to barbtries (Reply #30)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:03 PM

33. I just posted below about my move from NY to Georgia (and then to Virginia)

I Can honestly say that I became much more involved in local and state politics after my move. I think it was a desire to be a part of the change for batter. I may have taken for granted in a small way living in a blue state for nearly 40 years.

Things are fought right now in NC, Art Pope does;t make things easy, that is for sure.

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #33)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 06:13 PM

48. me too actually

i think i've voted more in the 7 years i've been here than i did in my life before that. it matters more here, i mean my vote could be the difference. where i come from it can't really change the outcome usually.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:00 PM

31. I lived in NY for nearly 40 years.

I can tell you it was the most eye opening thing to move from a very blue state to Georgia (a very red state). I was in the blue Island of Atlanta and the Dems in that state were wonderful, awesome and organized. I have a friend in Alpharetta, there is little D presence. I lived there for 3 years, and I was far more impressed wight he outreach of the party than I saw in NY. (I am not knocking NY at all, btw)

I moved from that red state to a swing state, and I can say that with enough persistence, rethinks can change. This was a great post.

I am a blue state liberal that has had the chance to live in a red state, and it sure as hell fought me to look at things from a different world view -- well, to be specific, state view.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:15 PM

34. The MEDIA labeled them "Red States and Blue States"....

 

The Parties followed suit. The idea that a particular political party OWNS a whole state is a new one. How new? Before 2000 Republicans were represented as "blue" and Dems as "red" by the media. The traditional colors are blue for the right and red for the left. They never explained why they switched it in the 2000 election.

It is INFURIATING to an old time political type like me to hear some idiot chickenhawk racist Republican claiming the red represents the blood THEY shed in defense of "freedom". I guess that would be the "freedom" to pile in the old '50s convertible wearing letterman jackets to go beat up "queers" or the "freedom" to lynch black people for getting "uppity". The same idiots who talk "police state" but cheer to vids of cops beating up Occupy Wall Street. The ones who say, "All they understand is violence" and claim diplomacy is "weak" proving that's all THEY understand is violence. It's ALSO all they will settle for because they feel a need to HURT someone, especially if that someone dared to question their unquestioned authority.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:25 PM

35. Good list. But speaking as a Texan, I doubt it will do much good.

Way too many blue state DU'ers derive way too much satisfaction from trashing entire red states, with little if any exception being made for liberal residents.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #35)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:55 PM

38. Being from Texas but having lived in California for 25 years, most of my family

are good Texas Liberals. I once asked my adult nephew why he didn't move and he said someone needs to stay and try to make the changes. He lives in beautiful New Braunfels (?on sp) not far from the very liberal Austin. Austin is an awesome city with some of the best music ever. He loves it. Plus he's never lived anyplace but Texas his whole life. There are some great folks that Texas can be very proud of: Ann Richards, Jim Hightower , Willie, Stevie Ray, the list goes on and on. I'm heartbroken that Texas Has become so conservative but I have hope that things could change. Wendy for Governor!!!!! Thank to the OP for starting the discussion....






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Response to Paladin (Reply #35)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 10:09 PM

63. and the worst of it

is when they say "the people in (insert name of red state) deserve what they get cuz they let a Republican get elected."

Many of us in Wisconsin worked our asses off to defeat Walker, and it's irritating as hell to be told we deserve a dirtball like him as Governor.

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Response to mokawanis (Reply #63)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 08:48 AM

80. I know exactly how you feel.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:49 PM

36. As a red state Dem who fights HARD every election -

city, borough, state and federal - thank you.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:52 PM

37. K&R and bookmarking for use later

when someone scorns me for living in Texas.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:55 PM

39. The worst is "South Bashing"

 

Like only Teabaggers are in the South and not in AZ, AK, OK, SD, ND, MO, PA, NJ, etc etc.

Since a man of color was elected to the presidency, the bigots have emerged from everywhere. I'll bet the majority aren't even in the old South but the "heartland" and wild West. (After all, NC voted blue in '08.... one reason we're being punished now) But to get real.... regionalisms are useless in this area these days. The whole country is a problem.

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #39)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 05:49 PM

45. "The whole country is a problem." Yes it is.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:57 PM

40. "Blue" or "purple" states like VA, FL, NC get WAY less respect here than red states in the West

The "I hate all the red states and want to get rid of all THOSE PEOPLE" message tends to collapse, when the discussion gets intense, into "who cares if Nebraska, the Dakotas, Wyoming, Idaho, etc. are far more RED than Virginia, we still want to get rid of YOU CONFEDERATES ESPECIALLY." The red/blue simplistic BS is a fig leaf for the "no matter how blue your state is, we hate you for seceding in 1861" meme.

But most of us didn't want to secede in 1861. And those who did have been dead for more than a century.

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Response to carolinayellowdog (Reply #40)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 05:28 PM

102. When Sam Houston was governor of Texas, he didn't want to secede either.

Unfortunately, he was removed from office and they voted to secede anyway. Houston understood why it was a bad idea. Too bad they didn't listen to him. The Confederacy might have lost sooner.

After leaving the Governor's mansion, Houston traveled to Galveston. Along the way, many people demanded an explanation for his refusal to support the Confederacy. On April 19, 1861 from a hotel window he told a crowd:

Let me tell you what is coming. After the sacrifice of countless millions of treasure and hundreds of thousands of lives, you may win Southern independence if God be not against you, but I doubt it. I tell you that, while I believe with you in the doctrine of states rights, the North is determined to preserve this Union. They are not a fiery, impulsive people as you are, for they live in colder climates. But when they begin to move in a given direction, they move with the steady momentum and perseverance of a mighty avalanche; and what I fear is, they will overwhelm the South.


As for those that still want to get rid of us "Confederate" states, just call them sore winners

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Response to kentauros (Reply #102)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 06:16 PM

104. Sam Houston whom we Virginians claim as one of our own

The VA legislature voted against secession, and the NC electorate did the same. My ancestors' native county in eastern NC was 81% NO, 19% YES for secession.

None of that matters, in 2014 "we" liberals must "get rid" of "those Confederates" to create a more perfect Union.

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Response to carolinayellowdog (Reply #104)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 06:21 PM

106. A "perfect" Union

that would have a major economic collapse were they to ever be able to do such a thing. The Great Depression would be a walk in the park in comparison.

Thanks for the history on NC, too. I truly hope that Moral Mondays are able to continue swaying more of the voters to boot the assholes out in the next election. That was such a great way to protest!

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 05:32 PM

42. Cheering you from blue CT!

I admire your guts. You guys are up against the wall and it takes real courage to stand up and fight back!

We can be a little too complacent here in the People's Republic of New Haven, CT, where I live. So many times, we speak and see nodding heads...no risk there. Whereas you guys really take it and take it...I don't think I could do that.

Sending you good vibes and wishes for success...best of luck to you brave souls...

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 05:53 PM

46. Yes. I was raised in MS and I gave up trying to explain it here.

It's not homogenous, it's not all one culture, it's not all either black or white (big Mexican and Vietnamese populations) and it's not all straight white male by ANY means. There's outstanding beauty and cultures and the liberals, and there are lots of good people struggling mightily to overcome the awful legacies of the past and learn to live and work together.

It's a hard fucking sell on DU and that makes me sad and often drives me away. Thanks for keeping up the good fight.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #46)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 09:16 AM

81. The Appeal: It's the story of the purchasing of a Supreme Court seat in Mississippi. ~ John Grisham

The Appeal was a book I published. It was always a novel. Itís completely fiction and itís completely true. It's the story of the purchasing of a Supreme Court seat in Mississippi. ~ John Grisham

Judge Oliver Diaz from "Hot Coffee"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101644148#post1

Whenever I think of Mississippi politics that John Grisham quote comes to mind. I'd like to be smug about it but my State of Michigan has become just as bad (if not worse).

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 06:00 PM

47. I'm not sure WI gets more money than it pays in taxes

We would certainly be getting more money if Walker hadn't nixed high-speed rail, and that might have put us over...

At any rate, being blue in a red state leaves one pretty, well, blue, and I relate to most of what that writer says.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 06:28 PM

51. +1000 As a Kentucky liberal I know exactly what you are talking about.

Thanks for a great OP. Yeah, my next door neighbor flies the Confederate flag and yes, there are a lot of red necks around. But there are a lot of liberals who are fighting tooth and nail. And we might just manage to turn the turtle out to pasture come November!

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 06:33 PM

52. I know I've got it relatively easy living in Washington the State. I greatly

 

respect the liberals living in red states.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 06:47 PM

53. It also doesn't help to relentlessly tear down red state Dems like Claire McCaskill, Wendy Davis,

Kay Hagan and others who have to walk a very fine line. They'll never be able to pass the self imposed limitations of liberal purity as doled out by a relatively small faction of the party.

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #53)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:21 AM

68. Hagan is timid

She could push a more liberal line without really endangering herself, especially after the last 4 years of Tillis and Berger trying to blow up the state. That being said, I'll take timid Kay Hagan over Tillis with no hesitation. She might do something useful in DC. There's no danger of Tillis ever being useful.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 08:43 PM

56. In northern KY

with a big ole democratic underground sticker proudly on my car

that and a 'fascism sucks' sticker ... lol

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 08:58 PM

59. I live in Pennsylvania

Which is technically blue, but as red as deepest darkest Georgia when it comes to state government

You are not effective. Trying is. It good enough. Liberals need to realize that conservatives are criminals, and collecting evidence to out them in prison is typically very easy. It's the lack of support from cowards that is the problem, not the trying.

So please, learnt really fight. Literally. Chase these people doen

Stop taking offense at the methods, because you find them underhanded. This is why they win, and conservatives have proven again and again they're very comfortable taking 40 years to make it happen. So if you're not defeating all 41, they're still winning in the end.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 09:15 PM

60. Kicking. nt

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 09:43 PM

62. WE ARE HERE! WE ARE HERE! WE ARE HERE!

Like the Whos down in Whosville!

YAWP

You are stronger than the average liberal down there. You HAVE to be.

Love ya lots

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Response to annabanana (Reply #62)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:55 AM

84. That's what it feels like, lol!

Plenty are trying to bring about change.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 12:36 AM

66. Hate to admit it, but I could NEVER live in a Red State

I live in a largely Blue state in a legendarily Blue town in a consistently Blue county and although I love the country of my birth, I truly feel as though I have one foot out the door. I'm as Red as I'm willing to get. Even a slight Doppler Shift would be enough to do me in. The problem is that I've got close Canadian relatives and lots of European friends, so I have a strong sense that despite Herculean efforts to argue otherwise, our politics are totally insane.

What about folks who live in Louisiana? Do you actually cheer when Mary Landrieu wins because she's better than the alternative? Or people in Georgia. Were you proud and relieved to have Sam Nunn as your Senator?

I'm sorry, but I could never, ever do that.

Lesser of two evils is bad enough on the national level. I'd have a really hard time swallowing it locally.

I grew up in a different Blue state but in a pretty Red town. The things I noticed that happened to the Blue-oriented folks in these situations weren't things I wanted to emulate. Either they shifted toward the Red as an inevitable compromise. Or else, they became almost a caricature of the Blue voter. Their Blue tendencies became comical and exaggerated. I can remember growing up when recycling was just starting and you actually had to drive to the dump to recycle things. All the people who showed up to recycle were essentially the town's Blue iconoclasts. Talk about bleeding-heart, do-gooder types. It was bizarre, almost as though there had been a casting call for "Liberals." I'd like to live in a place where rational, compassionate, liberal views are the mainstream, not a clear indication that you are some oddball out on the fringe. My current town, despite its reputation, just barely meets that need, but, sorry to say, there is absolutely no way that I could imagine living in a Red state. If my town got any more Red and I could come up with an exit strategy then, frankly, I'd be out of here.

I know that seems like I'm pursuing a Platonic ideal or am obsessed with some unrealistic purity (ponies, unicorns, etc.), but again, I know lots of "normal" people in Canada or Europe (some of whom amazingly qualify as right-of-center in their countries) for whom my "radical" ideas are considered so reasonable that they are barely worth comment.

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #66)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:52 AM

83. I have lived in the urban south my whole life. Austin, Houston, Atlanta---totally different

world. This is where the "Red state liberals" live. You get used to your city government being out of step with your state government the same way that San Francisco has been out of step with the state of California in the past.

I suspect that across the nation, Big Urban is very similar everywhere you go. Take someone from Seattle, put them in Austin---in the winter, not summer---and I think they could be quite happy.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #83)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 12:45 PM

89. Very interesting. Thanks

Although I have a hunch that the definition of "liberal" is somewhat fluid from one state to another. There's an old guy in my neighborhood, for example, who's a big O'Reilly fan and yet he keeps in regular touch with a gay couple who used to live next door to him. But he's definitely a Republican. That particular G of the classic 3 G's of conservatives doesn't seem to bother him at all. (He's straight, by the way.)

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #66)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 11:30 AM

86. So here's the thing. LA and MS are full of people just living.

There's a certain quirky admiration for the crooked politician even as there's a gleeful willingness to run them out on a rail if they get caught. But many people are closer to being independent, laissez faire entities than most anywhere else. The political system makes a political cause out of people who in many ways don't give a tinker's damn about it. I don't mean they don't want freedom or rights or help but there's such a deep distrust and dismissive ness about government that many don't think about it as anything but something to be gotten around. One of the tragedies of Katrina was that it tore apart underground societies and economies that worked well for generations, and all kinds of opportunists came in to fill in the holes, replacing family and community loyalty with governance and gangs.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #86)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 12:48 PM

90. Thanks for insights. I realize that LA is kind of a special case.

And a colorful one at that.
It's fascinating, for example, how some modern-day liberals seem to idealize Huey Long, while others view him as an American fascist.
I don't know much about MS though.

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #90)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 05:51 PM

103. Admittedly I'm from the coast and it's all the same.

Very short coast so New Orleans and the MS part are very similar. But I have people up in the delta and piney woods and it's a different version of the same. Far more cheek-by-jowl politics, living out both the anger and the idea that everyone's in it together and nobody should interfere, except of course when they should. It's messy but it's lively.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:21 AM

69. That is an excellent article,

and so true. Thank you.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:25 AM

70. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Scuba.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:28 AM

73. I often wonder WHY elected Democrats tend to be so damn weak against the GOP nastiness. Some days it

 

reeks of complicity, sheated in a veneer of Democratic "bi-partisanship" that's ALWAYS a one-way proposition.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:52 AM

75. Vigilance All: Red, Blue & Purple.

 

The more carpet advertising I see for a cause or a candidate, the more suspect I am of their true calling. You cannot take most political ads at face value. Research.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 03:38 AM

76. I live in rural virginia

I've lived I'm several states but it's been years since I've been as politically active but living here had forced me to get up and involve myself in even the county appointments. The tea bags have their fingers in everything here you have to fight them on every level. This is how we wound up with vagina probing and new voter if laws. We have to fight the deranged bastards on the smallest level to stop them from running rampant with their anti American agenda. When I lived in a solid blue district I never worried about some nut getting on the school board who wanted to teach Jesus rode a dinosaur when he wrote the constitution. Believe me if you think the ones that make it to congress are nuts you should see the
fucking loons trying to get on the school board.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 06:49 AM

77. Keep up the good fight

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 07:56 AM

79. As a Texas Democrat, I love this article

We are fighting and we are making real progress

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:48 AM

82. Visit the urban south. Austin. Atlanta. NOLA. Houston. You'll be charmed.

But stay far far away from most parts of the rural south. I do. I was born down here. The rural south is a scary, scary place.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #82)

Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:48 AM

115. Yep, it's urban versus rural.

Houston is liberal. The big cities in TX are liberal except for Dallas and even it and Fort Worth are changing.

Rural Texas---aggghh. Very few white Democrats with about a 35% AA population or more in East Texas.

I have a governor, two senators and a Congresscritter I didn't vote for--Joe Barton.



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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:58 AM

85. Something else: The stupid idea of boycotting isn't working!

How long will it take DU to figure that out?

If it didn't work for Michael Moore, why would it work for the posters on DU?

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 11:46 AM

87. I grew up as a liberal in a Red State of Georgia now living in the bluest of Blue State of Maryland

 

This should be in the Great Reads forum as well. Maryland wasn't always liberal and isn't as liberal as we think. The state also,could easily go Red if Dmocrats mess up. On the flip side, as we saw with brilliant reporting fom Chris Hayes last night, my home state of Geogia could go Blue if more voters engage.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #87)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:21 PM

93. Maryland gets pretty un-liberal the further away you get from the cities

After all, notorious Alabama segregationist George Wallace won the state's presidential primary in 1972.

I canvassed in Maryland many years ago for a white liberal candidate and was shouted off one property by a homeowner who insisted my candidate was an N-word lover. This was less than 10 miles outside of Baltimore.

I've heard the same about parts of Pennsylvania and have seen anecdotal evidence to support this (a large Confederate flag at one house and "freedom fries" at the local eatery).

The old saying about Pennsylvania is "Pittsburgh to the west, Philadelphia to the east, and Alabama in between."

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 11:47 AM

88. red states are more dominated by talk radio than most blue states. and a lot of blue states are

barely blue and less blue because the liberals in those states continue to ignore rw radio, like most liberals in red states

red state liberals could turn their states bluer by challenging rw radio

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:25 PM

94. Our House is Divided

and it will only get more polarized. Life is too short
to put up with deliberately repressive BS. Screw the red states.

I've recently become interested in provincialism and why people
continue to live in areas of the country with horrible weather,
repressive politics or failing economies. It seems masochistic.


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Response to The River (Reply #94)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:28 PM

95. "Screw the red states." Thanks for your support.

 

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Response to The River (Reply #94)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 09:00 PM

110. how masochistic would it be to move elsewhere for this kind of disdain?

especially if one is moving from a place with excellent weather, fairly progressive politics, a healthy economy, well-educated population, only to be looked down on?

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:34 PM

96. Its tough for a lib in the big Mis, even tougher for a radical

 

Did 8 years there....left about a year ago. Its amazing how the conservative propaganda affects people, even highly educated people. I have a couple of friends who I visited about a month ago and they were generally conservative before or moderate libs (for mis), but now they are raging teabaggers. The worst part is that they teach, so they are passing their bullshit off to the next generation. Just 7 months without any pushback from me and they have become total lunatics....I mean shit like LBJ created black dependency via great society programs...ETC. And these people teach history to kids in basically all-black schools.

Overall, it was a depressing experience and I, like most other libs, left. The fight just seemed to be largely a waste of time and I felt like I could get more bang for my buck (so to speak), somewhere else. And that, my friends, is a major problem, one that I am guilty of participating in (to those who would attack me for this as tom hartman would say-tag your it). Mis has both the brain-drain phenomena and the lib-drain phenomena. All my lib students could not wait to get out and would secretly pull me aside to talk about the north as if we where having some dirty conversation and all my conservative students refused to visit anywhere north of ten. or west of texas. All the libs that decided to stay, largely became dormant libs....out in the sense that they would not deny being libs but not really involved in politics...or scared to do too much because of their careers (and these are academic libs who should theoretically be the most protected of all libs).

Its one of the structural problems the continues to plague the south (speaking as an outsider, that become and insider, who is now an outsider). I dont say any of this to demean the south (there are parts that I miss bout mis) but to offer my unique insights as a yankee passerby. And to the peeps from Idaho who think their state is similar I would say, not in a million years. Im in your area now, teaching kids from idaho (and visiting around the area to get a lay of the land) and a conservative from idaho is basically the equivalent to a moderate lib in Mis. There really is no place like the deep south, what I call the cultural south (LA, MS, AL, GA) and you have to experience it for a while to really understand all the issues and its difficult for southern libs who have never left and lived in a deep blue state to grasp. Personally, as someone who travels and spends a lot of time in different regions of this country I think will all need to get out a little more. Blue state libs are blind to this or that, red state libs are blind to this or that.... To scuba or any other red state lib who might be reading this post, if you have never lived in a deep blue state for over 5 years after the age of 18, the best way to help your state might be to get out for a bit and come back. The only problem with this advice is that you might not come back.

All things being equal I think the bright light in the darkness is that within time, things will change in Mis. I was impressed with my students, especially the conservative ones, who did not want to fight the culture wars anymore. I remember teaching a class on the quad (drill field) about the concept of moral entrepreneurs (groups whose business is morality) in front of one of those groups that demonizes homosexuals and it was my most conservative students who showed up to class with bible in hand for the big "bible-off" and used scripture to pushback. Not exactly how I would prefer to pushback as I prefer arguments based in logic and law but it was still probably one of the most significant teaching experiences I've ever had and one of my proudest moments. They used what they had, what they were familiar with, to fight back and they did it in public.

In the end, I guess all I can really say is (cap lock trigger warning) THANK GOD FOR DU! I can honestly say that at times, this place was all I had during some of my hardest times in mis.

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Response to mentalslavery (Reply #96)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:48 PM

97. Thanks, I appreciate your thoughtful post.

 

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 06:46 PM

108. K&R

This Tennessean thanks you for this!

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:19 PM

111. Georgia could go blue if people would just register and vote. They're too lazy and/or apathetic!

 

And that's the truth.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:21 PM

112. Here in NC more folk voted for D candidates than for R candidates in 2012

but the gerrymander produced huge R majorities

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #112)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:34 PM

113. And you're fighting back. I'm so proud of the Moral Monday protesters and appreciate Rev Barber ...

 

... coming to Wisconsin.

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Response to Scuba (Original post)

Wed Jun 25, 2014, 11:37 PM

114. There are few Red or Blue states in reality.

When 40-45% of the populous votes reliably for the losing party, it just goes to show there are millions of people on both sides everywhere.

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