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[Ken Burch]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Ken Burch) on Wed Jun 25, 2014, 03:36 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[KamaAina]

1. I'm sure that was part of Grandma's thought process

to screw KFC because it opposed Obamacare.

[elehhhhna]

2. oh bullshite

please. you are ridiculous.

[cali]

8. worst op of the day. maybe the week- though it's still young.

[TacoD]

3. A righteous grift? (nt)

[Ken Burch]

7. Absolutely.

After all, most of the wealth accumulated by the .001% is from the unrighteous kind.

[cali]

10. so you justify bad shit because of bad shit. gad.

[Ken Burch]

42. I justify a minor bit of moral ambiguity driven by desperation.

I did say that my justification hinges on the assumption that the family is telling the truth about the situation with the insurance company.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

218. there is no moral ambiguity here...

they were perpetrating fraud.

sP

[karynnj]

238. No ambiguity at all if KFC did not do what they said

In fact, where is your concern for the low wage KFC workers and manager at the FL location? Don't you think they were harmed by this lie? They were PERSONALLY accused of a pretty vile action.

They have nothing to do with health insurance - other than possibly not having what they needed themselves. You are motivated by your ideology more than anything else. There are a lot of reasons to dislike KFC, but this is ridiculous.

[JI7]

14. employees of KFC who were attacked at part of the .001% ?

[TacoD]

18. How do you feel about shoplifting from Wal-Mart? Not a rhetorical question, I'm really curious (nt)

[Ken Burch]

29. I feel it's pointless, actually. Nothing there worth stealing.

You'd have to be in a really bad way to want to steal their stuff, so I guess I wouldn't be outraged.

This all goes to the question of how much of a fetish we make out of "law and order" and "property".

[JI7]

36. they have food, water, soap, diapers, many things that are basic needs

for someone who might be "justified" and desperate in stealing to get by in life.

[FrodosPet]

48. But are they organic free trade diapers?

Unless they have a pretentious name and cost $12 a piece, then he is right, why WOULD anybody want to steal them?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

194. LOL

Close the thread, this wins the internet for the day.

[bluesbassman]

55. A "fetish" out of "law and order" and "property"?

That is a very curious statement. Do you advocate anarchy in it's place? Is that really a viable social system?

[Ken Burch]

69. Not anarchy, but humane exceptions

to the idea that "property" and "law and order" matter more than making this world into a placewhere no one ever feels obligated to make desperate choices like this.

Putting the law and property first puts common humanity second.

[bluesbassman]

92. Not seeing where you would make the demarcation line for "humane exceptions".

You have voiced an implicit approval for the actions of the family involved in the KFC hoax, and have further implied that such activities are OK in "certain" cases to combat the inequality found in our current economic system. While I agree with your statement that we as a society should be focused on "making this world into a place where no one ever feels obligated to make desperate choices like this", I find it hard to equate working to improve the lives of others with the idea that "law and order" and "property" are concepts that should be allowed to be suspended to achieve this goal.

[nomorenomore08]

111. And when "law and order" and "property" stand in the way of basic humanity?

I don't think there is an easy answer, frankly.

[Ken Burch]

116. We don't even know if there WAS a hoax, at this point.

As for the humane exceptions, they would range from survival(the need to steal food or clothes if there was no other way to get them for your family or to live as a squatter if no other shelter was available) to time-based necessity(the need to pay for an imminently needed medical procedure).

If we make law and property into absolutes, we make the creation of a just world impossible, because the law is always and unchangeably biased towards the few and against the many, and because property will always be held mainly by the few and mainly used against the many.

I admire crusading liberal and radical lawyers, but they will always be in a pathetically small minority.

[raccoon]

209. Yes, we do know there was a hoax. nt

[tammywammy]

4. Give me a break.

[geek tragedy]

5. The working class people who work

at that KFC received harassment and death threats, and had their reputations dragged through the mud by these con artists who were responsible for the child's injuries in the first place.

Screw that. They will be very fortunate to avoid much-deserved jail time.

[Hekate]

66. That's pretty much how I feel about it. Innocent workers were harmed, badly. nt

[Aerows]

94. Not to mention the people that gave out of the goodness of their hearts

and now wonder if every single person that claims they are in need is a con artist. Shameful.

[cali]

6. Seriously? Wow. That is so morally bankrupt I don't know what to say to you.

No, it's not remotely justifiable. It's bad on so many levels.

Pretty disgusting OP.

Eva

[Ken Burch]

12. Why? It's just regaining a tiny bit of what's been stolen.

Why should we ever feel sorry about anything that happens to a corporate giant?

[cali]

27. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "feeling sorry for a corporate giant"

Can you really be this dim? What about the employees they LIED about? Are those people "evil cogs" in your mind? What about the poor kid? Did you even think for one blessed second about how this is going to impact her? What about the example they're setting for their kids? What about LYING about someone complaining?

Sheesh, Ken. I thought you were smarter than this. The position you're clinging to really is repulsive from a moral perspective.

[Ken Burch]

38. I've added the following to the OP:

&quot Note: all of what follows is written on the assumption that the family is telling the truth about the denial of insurance coverage)".

My feeling is that, if the family is, in fact, being honest about what their insurer did, nobody can really judge them. There is only a short window of time within which they can try to repair the child's face before the damage becomes irreparable. Given that, there is a limit to how much sanctimony the rest of us, especially those of us who live in greater comfort, can aim at them.

After all, most corporate hospitals won't do this kind of work for free, and if the girl's face isn't repaired now, her life is over. Morality is useless when you are physically disfigured for life, as she would be if they waited until they could pay for thesurgery on their own. This society never has a place for women with mangled faces and never will.

Do you want the kid to have no hope of a real life just so she'll absorb bourgeois abstractions about "lying"? Abstractions the people who run this society never follow in their actions now(and therefore, never will)?

People should generally tell the truth...but there are times when simple compassion has to come first.

[JI7]

41. so why not just say insurance was unwilling to pay ? and don't tell me they were afraid

because they had no problem bringing up a large and much more recognized corporation like KFC to try to raise funds.

[nomorenomore08]

45. "...there are times when simple compassion has to come first."

Bingo. I'm with you, despite what others have said.

And yes, I do feel bad for the KFC employees who've taken the brunt of this. They're not the bad guy here.

[Ken Burch]

63. I feel bad for them as well.

If we had single-payer, none of this would have happened.

[nomorenomore08]

67. You're probably right about that. Pretty awful situation all around. n/t

[Michigander_Life]

32. By stealing money from people they duped using a fraudulent story?

[onenote]

39. A lot of individuals who are not 1%ers gave money to the family

How do you rationalize that?

[nomorenomore08]

46. Would they have done so, if not for the publicity?

[onenote]

98. Of course not, which is why the OP is full of crap when he says this was a "victimless" hoax

[nomorenomore08]

107. Would you feel better if the poor kid had to go through life with a mangled face

simply because her insurance wouldn't pay for "cosmetic" surgery?

[Ken Burch]

119. Some here feel that would be more "righteous", I think.

That's what the law/property fetish does to your soul.

[onenote]

141. Of course not. But that doesn't justify misleading people into giving money

which we have no reason at this point to believe her family would use for her benefit.

[Ken Burch]

148. We also don't know that any misleading was done.

It's in KFC's interest to make this family look like frauds.

[TorchTheWitch]

198. Oh please!

It was obvious fraud. A lot of us realized that right away. The story flat out never made any sense. There's no way that cute little kid with minimal scaring was told to leave KFC or that anyone there was "scared" of her face. No employee is so stupid that they would have thrown out anyone that someone complained about because of their looks since they'd know they'd get sacked, and they'd think they were crazy besides since that little girl despite her minimal scaring and cute eyepatch is adorable by anyone's standard. Given the legitimately ugly mugs that frequent all kinds of stores and restaurants no sane person would have found that cute kid to be "scary" looking in any way, shape or form, and no employee wanting to keep their job would ever have thrown her out even if some ass did complain. The whole story was ludicrous at first glance, and anyone that believed it right off the bat is either gullible in the extreme or wanted to believe it just because KFC is a big corporation, and big corporations are legitimately hated for entirely other reasons.

If you STILL can't see why this is such obvious fraud by NOW, you're just willfully blind. They didn't get the date right that it supposedly happened, they named a KFC restaurant that hasn't even EXISTED for years, they claimed the girl had to be fed by a feeding tube yet claim she went to KFC to eat their mashed potatoes, etc., etc.

The kid would never have gotten mauled to begin with if these same people hadn't left her with a relative that had 10 loose pit bulls while living in a trailer, HAD to know that at least some of them were violently aggressive, and had no regard to look out for her safety around them. Not only did these fraudsters cast blame on a company for something that never happened and caused actual harm to innocent employees they also USED that fake story in order to bilk gullible people out of their money and other gifts for their own benefit - and who knows if shitstains like that would have used that money to that girl's benefit or not. After all, these are the same assholes that put her in the terrible situation of getting mauled by these dogs to begin with.

It's in no way KFC's interest to make the family "look" like frauds. Family members did that plenty good enough all on their own the moment they posted the photo of an adorable minimally scared little girl with a cute cartoon eyepatch. All kinds of big corporations have had shitty employees that do stupid things, and all they do is apologize and fire the person while coughing up any money to whatever victim if they're the least bit negligent or liable and even when they aren't either one just to look good in the public's eye. Happens all the time.

The FACT is, the KFC story that members of this family gave out was full of shit from the word "go", and there didn't even need to be any investigation into it to see that.

Further, assuming the family members that perpetuated this fraud were telling the truth about the unnamed insurance company is flat out loony tunes. They're LIARS and really bad ones. Why then would anyone in their right mind assume ANYTHING they say in connection with this girl's medical issues is true especially when the whole reason this little girl was mauled in the first place was because of their own gross negligence?

[JI7]

9. no, it's not justified, why didn't they tell the name of the insurance company refusing to pay

for the surgery ?

because most likely it wasn't an issue. they just wanted money for themselves.

[Ken Burch]

20. They could have feared retribution. n/t.

[JI7]

24. like retribution against employees at KFC who were attacked ?

[Niceguy1]

11. bullshit

Advocting such makes you no different than the corporate evil doers that you claim to hate.

[Ken Burch]

16. Wrong. They gain billions from us.

I personally gain nothing from this at all.

I'm just pointing out that sanctimonious condemnation of this family is hypocritical bilge.

If this was a crime, it was a victimless crime.

[Niceguy1]

23. execpt for KFC

And their workers....

[geek tragedy]

26. Except for the KFC employees who were

smeared and received death threats.

[cali]

28. dog. shit. The employee they accused of asking them to leave was a victim. duh.

no hypocrisy here. just shock that you could be so entirely morally bankrupt.

[NanceGreggs]

203. There is nothing sanctimonious ...

... nor hypocritical about condemning the actions of people who seek to gain financially by lying, bilking goodhearted people out of their money under false pretenses, accusing innocent workers of heartless cruelty towards a child, and making false accusations against a corporation that many depend on for their livelihood.

To call this a "victimless crime" is despicable, and totally ignores the plight of those who have been harmed here.

You keep saying this has not been proven to be a hoax. Did you know that KFC hired an outside investigator, who viewed security camera footage from the two stores that could have been the shops the grandmother visited - (the one she cited as being the premises where this took place having been closed down years ago) - and she and the child were not found anywhere on those tapes? Did you know that the grandmother was very specific about the food she ordered - and neither store has a cash register ticket for the combination of items she says she purchased?

You have asserted that KFC has an interest in making the family look like frauds. Are you now asserting that the outside investigator is lying at KFC's behest? Are you now asserting that the staff who would have witnessed this occurrence are all lying as well? Are you suggesting that the videotapes have been doctored to delete the event? Are you suggesting that receipts have been doctored or destroyed to cover up what happened?

Had this all taken place as the grandmother claims, surely there would have been witnesses to a child being 'kicked out' of the shop - and surely SOME of them would have been horrified, if not all. And yet not a single person has come forward to say, "Yes, it happened, I was there and saw it." Or are you suggesting that all of those witnesses are also being deceitful by not coming forward with the truth of what occurred?

It would seem that the only "sanctimonious condemnation" here is your condemnation of those who have investigated this matter and found no evidence of the claims made - because if, as you assert, the grandmother is telling the truth, it can only mean that they are all lying.

This is not a matter of a corporation "getting what's coming to them", so the end justifies the means. There are many people who are truly victims here, and they are not CEOs raking-in billion-dollar salaries. They are hard-working staffers and franchise owners who have been vilified by grifters hoping for a big payout. They are truly good-hearted people who donated money they could probably ill afford to part with, but felt that this child needed whatever money they could send.

In the end, there will be more victims of this hoax in the future - those who truly are in need and ask for financial help - help that will not be forthcoming from those now skeptical of such pleas, fearing that they are just being preyed upon by yet another scam artist with a sad story to tell.

"Victimless crime" my ass. And I am truly horrified that you would suggest such a thing to begin with, no less double-down when confronted with your own hypocrisy. In your blind passion to vilify a hated big-buck corporation, you are willing to see innocent workers vilified in their stead.

[opiate69]

230. How I wish I could rec this post.

[1000words]

13. DU gets stranger and stranger ...

[Liberal_in_LA]

62. I'm very glad the family is getting money (more than 100K so far) but not fair to KFC

[Louisiana1976]

136. Same here.

[TorchTheWitch]

199. I'm not

After what these people have done in no way do I believe it will all be spent for the benefit of that little girl - if they get to keep it, which I doubt. Someone else with legal and moral integrity needs to have control of that money and gifts and make sure that every single bit of it goes to that girl's medical bills, and every single cent given by anyone that asks for it back is given it back.

Further, she needs legal guardians that aren't so stupid and negligent to hand her over to someone that lives in a trailer with 10 uncontrolled dogs and isn't a rescue operation and who didn't lie and cheat and try to bilk the public out of money with a fraudulent story.

Moreover, whoever it was that perpetrated this hoax needs to be sitting in prison.

I still want to know where the hell her parents are and why they've been silent concerning anything about this little girl.

[Liberal_in_LA]

237. i also hope all the monry goes to the kid

[GusBob]

15. heres the thing about absolutes like " no other choice" and " nobody here can truly say"

When one puts things in no uncertain terms it rarely is correct

And given the same situation? Millions of people have been there without resorting to making shit up

[Ken Burch]

143. Same thing with "the law is the law" n/t.

[GusBob]

187. and fraud is fraud

[Cali_Democrat]

17. Wait...wuh?

[el_bryanto]

19. I wouldn't. Right is right. Stealing and fraudulent actions are wrong. nt

[JI7]

21. are you this guy ?

[Jamaal510]

234. That vid right there was a doozy.

The guy was mean to someone who was merely doing her job and he succumbed to an absolutist mindset. He apparently considered all who work for Chick-Fil-A to automatically agree with the owner's politics. He certainly didn't help his cause, as there were comments that shredded both him and liberals in general.

[JI7]

240. his cause was just getting attention for himself and thinking he was going to come off as some hero

people like that aren't concerned about actually getting change for issues than bringing attention to themselves and their egos.

the dumbass says towards the end that he did something good and of course claims to be a nice guy. real nice guys never actually have to tell people they are nice. it's always assholes who do that.

[Blue_Tires]

22. I so wanted to believe that...

I really hoped this hoax story would be a starting point of examining the wider societal issue of just what lengths people have to go to get proper medical care in the United States...

But this isn't the case to hitch your wagon to...By almost every account, these people are nothing more than straight-up hustlers cashing in on a big swindle...

[Ken Burch]

131. We don't even know if there WAS a hoax, at this point.

It's not like anything has been proven, and KFC has a vested interest in discrediting these people.

[Blue_Tires]

201. Well the family can start by reconciling the big-assed gaps in their official story

To begin with I want to know the day, the time, the location, and the employee(s) spoken to...

And since there were other customers supposedly there, I'd like to see some witness or third party step forward and corroborate their story...

[raccoon]

210. See post 203 (great post, by the way.) "There is none so blind as he who will not see." nt

[Aerows]

25. You have to be kidding me.

"Nobody here can truly say that, given the same situation, we wouldn't do the same thing."

Speak for yourself. I wouldn't, and it is disgusting to imply that most people on DU lack moral character.

[cali]

31. No kidding. this op really stands out- as a pile of stinking shit.

[Ken Burch]

43. You're defending a Victorian definition of right and wrong

That notion of "morality" never included or served the people.

[FBaggins]

68. It's not just a "Victorian" definition of right and wrong

It pretty much matches every definition I've ever heard of.

I have no idea what substitute you're using. It doesn't pass the smell test.

[Ken Burch]

78. My substitute is not applying sanctimonious "moral" judgments to desperate people.

People who have no one to help them, no one to turn to.

[Aerows]

93. The day that most of us get so desperate

that we have to defraud normal, hardworking people of well over $130K in donations, I'm sure we will all rethink our stances on defrauding normal hardworking people like the corporations in your posts do.

Because, you know, most of us don't set out to defraud normal hardworking people like the folks did in this case. They didn't defraud KFC - they defrauded people that wanted to help and probably had no more than they did.

You know what happens when people cheat and defraud others via "charity"? People quit giving because they start to believe it is all fraud.

[Ken Burch]

97. People sent in donations by their own free will

Nobody was stolen from.

And we still don't even know for sure if any fraud was committed at all. Remember, it's in KFC's interest to discredit the family here.

[Aerows]

103. If I tell people a pack of lies that

the product I am selling will cure them of cancer, it still makes me a huckster. If I tell people I am collecting money for a charity that goes to a different purpose than what they thought they are donating to, it doesn't make me any less than a liar and a con artist.

[Ken Burch]

108. True

but neither of your examples compare to this situation.

[Aerows]

118. Don't ever ask me to donate to your charity

or any charity you are associated with. Or to lend you a coat when it is cold outside.

[Ken Burch]

125. This isn't about me

It's about a desperate family with no other choice.

[Throd]

104. They were duped! Dude, drop the shovel and stop digging.

[Ken Burch]

127. We don't know that.

And it's in KFC's interest to discredit the family here.

[FBaggins]

150. No they didn't

If the story is as it has been reported... then it was theft plain and simple.

Free will necessarily requires knowing the truth.

[Ken Burch]

168. And again, we don't even know that any fraud occurred at all.

It's in KFC's interest for us to doubt the family here, remember. They cut a check to these folks, but they don't want to have to cut more of them(OR to have to stop making huge donations to politicians opposed to healthcare coverage).

[FBaggins]

174. For purposes of this discussion... sure we do.

You started the debate that way.

[FBaggins]

151. And that bears no relation to rational concepts of right and wrong.

"I want something... therefore I'll take it" isn't right regardless of how desperate you are.

[Ken Burch]

165. But this is need...not want.

There's a difference.

[FBaggins]

175. So you say...

... why would I trust that this is the truth?

[cali]

142. uh, no. far older than that.

I'm condemning people who lie about other people, who cheat and who play on the sympathies of regular old people in order to line their own greedy ass pockets. You are defending people who are hurting others.

[Ken Burch]

146. No, what I'm saying is don't be sanctimonious about the desperate and the dispossessed

BTW, you have no reason to assume this isn't about meeting the child's medical needs.

And...remember...we don't even know if there WAS a hoax-it's in KFC's interest to make this family look bad.

[cali]

152. I've been desperate and dispossessed. Like having to go to the food shelf

so I do feel like I can comment. but you're right that there is no proof that it was a hoax and that KFC has a vested interest in denying it.

[Ken Burch]

167. I meant to say earlier that I put you in a different category, due to your personal situation.

Hadn't found a way to work that in.

[cali]

179. My personal situation has thankfully changed for the better

but I can honestly say I learned a lot from being functionally poor.

[Shrike47]

89. You got that right.

[GusBob]

37. the irony being not one poster agrees with the OP yet he claims all would

And why aren't grifting hoaxes like this all over the place if they are so justfified?

Dude couldn't be more wrong if he tried

[joeybee12]

30. You forgot the sracasm thing-y...

They got about $130K from people, not KFC, people, people, people...they're grifters and frauds and that little girl needs to get taken away by social services so she doesn't grow up to be the scum her parents and grandparents are.

[nomorenomore08]

51. At least if she gets her face fixed, she might have some kind of future.

[joeybee12]

57. Her face never looked that bad to me...

But it was the grandfather's dogs that did it to her...she needs a better environment.

[nomorenomore08]

60. Agreed. It wasn't nearly as horrific as I'd initially expected.

But she does have significant scarring, including a large bite mark on one side of her face. Making her "presentable" when she's older will require a good deal more surgery.

[Ken Burch]

65. there is that. If nothing else, the dogs need to be put down. n/t.

[etherealtruth]

33. "nobody here can truly say that, given the same situation, we wouldn't do the same thing"

I am going to guess that most people here would not even consider such a thing.

I think we have all been presented with situations where we could take advantage of others (and corporations) ... and most have decided to be honest.

SMH

[nomorenomore08]

54. "Taking advantage" of a billion-dollar corporation! How terrible!

Would you condemn a starving man for stealing bread too?

[petronius]

71. What if that man had a large starving family - would it be wrong to steal a

whole truckload of bread to feed them? And say his family don't like bread. They like... cigarettes?

[nomorenomore08]

77. Because the majesty of the law is more important than whether or not people starve to death...

[petronius]

87. Actually, the point had more to do with strained rationalizations

'supported' by pithy literary references...

[nomorenomore08]

90. Fair enough. But "illegal" will never automatically equal "immoral" when the system of laws

is set up to benefit a few at the expense of the rest of us.

[petronius]

147. On that general point I agree - 'legal' and 'right' are not synonymous. It

would be very interesting to see a system of laws in which they were (but I won't hold my breath... )

[Ken Burch]

105. I hadn't made any literary references.

My actual point was that nobody is entitled to be sanctimonious towards this family.

And remember, we have no reason to actually even believe they DID commit a hoax...and its in KFC's interest to discredit the family.

[petronius]

161. I took nmnm08's reference to a bread thief as the literary reference; I didn't mean

that there was such a reference the OP.

I actually see two distinct topics in your OP and your reply here. On the one - sanctimonious behavior - I tend to agree with you. I'm not a fan of sanctimony in general and it's distasteful to affect a judgmental, holier-than-though, self-righteous, castigating air toward people who have suffered a tragedy. (Personally, none of my close relatives have ever gotten a face bitten off, so I'm not quite sure how I'd react.)

On the other hand, though, we're all entitled if we choose to take issue with the statement that if it "is a hoax, it's a justified hoax." Disagreeing with that, as I do, is not synonymous with sanctimony...

[FrodosPet]

154. Without laws and standards of honorable conduct among civilized people

A whole hell of a lot more people would starve.

But let them suffer so long as your mighty revolutionaryness shines through? Because the worse people suffer, the better for socialism and revolution?

[nomorenomore08]

160. I'm in favor of alleviating suffering, period. Through strictly legal means or otherwise.

And following unjust laws does not make a person (or society) just.

I'm not arguing for anarchy, but rather for a sense of proportion and perspective. And when we make heroes out of those who steal millions/billions, and villains out of petty thieves, then we obviously lack that sense as a society.

[Ken Burch]

83. Did you just turn Jean Valjean into a cigarette smuggler? n/t.

[Coventina]

96. Darn! You beat me to it!!!!

[etherealtruth]

95. They bilked regualr folk via their web site

.... one either has a sense of right and wrong ... or they don't Grifting is either right or wrong

Your loaf of bread example is cannot really be equated to this ... perhaps hijacking a bread truck and letting the truck driver take the blame is more appropriate. The corporation didn't really suffer; however, the low wage workers at the KFC certainly did.

I'll count you as not one "of most folk " at DU that would not engage in grifting; you are why I noted "most people"

[nomorenomore08]

109. Is it "right" for a little girl to suffer permanent disfigurement due to lack of funds?

[etherealtruth]

114. ... and your proof of this is ...?

The very same grifters that bilked private individuals and tried unsuccessfully bilk a franchise owner state that insurance wont cover this ... ? Hmmmm their track record with honesty isn't very strong. There are several types of insurance that woud come into play here.

I think insurance companies should cover this ... that is "right". I would be interested in what plastic surgeons would recommend for the child ...? do you know?

Clearly you do not mind being bilked ... perhaps you can send them your financial info (you can trust them).... maybe they will spend what they get on the child ... maybe not.

[nomorenomore08]

124. Nobody likes being "bilked." That itself is not in question.

To me, this is simply an example of what people will do when they're desperate enough. I don't have to cheer it on to know that it will inevitably happen, under a blatantly unjust system.

[etherealtruth]

130. I agree with an unjust system ....

.... I don't disagree with them soliciting donations based on the dog attack ... why lie? Instead of the big "pay-day" ... they have ticked off people that would have otherwise been sympathetic.

[nomorenomore08]

132. Can't disagree with that. I'm just glad Victoria is (hopefully) getting the care she needs. n/t

[Ken Burch]

129. We don't even know if there was a "grift"

It goes without saying that the funds will be used for the girl's treatment.

[etherealtruth]

137. Does it?

... based on their honesty?

What supports the family's claim? What about the low wage workers that were dragged through the mud .... and their claims?

Just hoping the plastic surgeon that offered his/her services does not decline to help the poor little girl

[onenote]

145. How much money did you donate to her?

[nomorenomore08]

156. Oh look, it's the "You can't complain about poverty unless you sell your house!" argument.

For the record, I very well might have made a donation had I heard about this story earlier than I did. I also just gave the state of Vermont (which I've never visited) $20 to fight Monsanto, not that that matters for our purposes here.

[onenote]

159. Why not give to her now?

And its not a can't complain about poverty argument. Its a can't defend bilking regular people if you aren't willing to pony up yourself argument.

[Aerows]

99. Taking advantage of ordinary people

by giving a fraudulent story and taking bread out of the mouths of people that probably had no more than they did. KFC didn't lose a cent - but the people that got sucked into this hoax had what they thought was being charitable thrown back into their faces as a pack of lies.

[nomorenomore08]

113. Point taken. But at least we know now that the girl will be properly taken care of

in medical terms at least, and hopefully will have a chance at a normal life.

[etherealtruth]

117. Have the funds been used for treatment?

[nomorenomore08]

122. I certainly hope so. If not, I'll be pretty pissed myself. n/t

[etherealtruth]

126. A plastic surgeon offered to donate his/her services

I realize there are other costs besides the surgeons ... but they could have probably raised the money after the dog attack without lying

[nomorenomore08]

135. Contrary to the impression I may have given, I'm not enthusiastic about what the family has done.

But the thought that theft and fraud may be a terrible necessity, is the sort of thing that keeps me up at night.

[Ken Burch]

140. Well-put.

Theft is never a wonderful thing, but desperation IS desperation.

[Aerows]

121. And people that gave out of the goodness of their hearts

won't give when you or someone you love needs it because of fraud.

[nomorenomore08]

138. Which would be unfortunate, to say the least.

I just hate the fact that for-profit health insurance would put a family in such a desperate situation to begin with.

[Coventina]

34. There is no such thing as a justified hoax.

End of story.

[Blue_Tires]

44. Except in the name of entertainment, ala the original "War of the Worlds" radio broadcast...

[TacoD]

49. For the lulz? (nt)

[DesMoinesDem]

70. War of the Worlds wasn't a hoax, it was a radio program...

[Throd]

35. With that type of logic, what can't you justify?

[Takket]

40. A "justified hoax"????

Did I stumble over to free republic by mistake?????? I didn't know it was okay to just make shit up now.

[Kaleva]

47. They got money from folks who can ill afford to donate.

[Jenoch]

50. Ken, you appear to be out of your mind.

Last edited Tue Jun 24, 2014, 08:30 PM - Edit history (1)

KFC could have sued the grandmother for slander. Instead, they donated $30,000 to help with the medical bills.

[Ken Burch]

80. Uh...for "slavery"?

[Jenoch]

157. Slander

autocorrect

[DeadLetterOffice]

172. self-delete

nvm, lol

[Rex]

239. Slavery, slander...obvious someone is out of their mind.

Since they seem to be thinking of something else and then blaming autocorrect.

[Logical]

52. Wow, what a totally failed thread. Totally incorrect in every way. n-t

[MineralMan]

53. Theft by swindle.

That's the legal description in Minnesota. People sent money, on false pretenses. You're wrong, Ken. Just wrong. I could not be more disappointed to see you write that. This will color my reading of every future post you write. I'm sure you don't care, but I do.

[Skittles]

56. sorry, this assertion is absolutely ridiculous

WTF

[nomorenomore08]

58. Yes, they were dishonest. And yes, it's too bad KFC employees took the brunt of it.

But on the bright side, a little girl may not have to live with life-long disfigurement. That's what's really important here if you ask me.

[MADem]

59. Yeah, fuck over some poor franchise owner, cost him revenue, maybe -- had not this situation been

resolved--cost those employees their jobs, all because Grampa had three dogs that tried to eat the granddaughter. Along comes grandma, looking for a way to scam some money... and it's KFC's fault?

Please.

You need to get your thought processes organized, because that's some of the most convoluted crapola I have EVER heard.

Most of the "stealing" came from innocent little wage slaves who felt bad for the kid, who contributed over a hundred thousand dollars to Scam Artist Grannie's little internet fund. The thirty K that KFC pledged would have been a write off, so no skin off their noses in any event.

And I can say with ABSOLUTE assurance that I would have NEVER done such a thing--first, leaving a small child to be ravaged by three pitbulls, and second, trying to scam a corporation with lies and horse shit.

Good grief, don't try to project your easy morality--or lack thereof--on everyone else. That kind of crap doesn't float.

She could have begged for charity--anything is more honorable than lying like a rug. That child should be removed from that fucked up bunch--that's probably the best thing for the kid.

[Hekate]

74. You said it. nt

[Cha]

197. Thanks MADem for tellin' it so

damn eloquently.

[MADem]

221. Anytime.

This entire premise of this thread reads--even if it wasn't intentional--like a massive troll. It's the sort of mocking, caricature position that Republicans like to pretend that "business hatin', socialist - "Give away OUR money!!!!: - 'entitlement-lovin'" morally ambiguous "evil librul" Democrats advocate.

Picture Rush Limbaugh, in all of his bloviating and snarky glory, postulating this very same position with all the dripping sarcasm he could muster. Just the sort of thread that wingnuts would LOVE to link to...if only the responses had been anything other than "Are you out of your fucking mind?" Gee, damn the bad luck!

I don't know a soul who thinks that there's any justification for this sort of fraud. I think most people find the conduct of the grandparents--Paw Paw letting his fucking pitbulls maul his grandchild, and Maw Maw with her grifting ways--despicable.

[FrodosPet]

61. You are losing BADLY here!

If I think you have too much, can I come steal some? Can I make up lies about you because if you are doing better than me you must be getting it dishonestly?

THINK.

This OP represents an anomaly in progressive thought. Most people are not con artists, stealing from good hearted people while endangering and harassing the poor workers trying to scrape by.

[Puzzledtraveller]

195. So true

I think this is what happens when general hatred and anger takes over reason, even a person with a modicum of reason could not arrive at the justification the OP asserts.

[PoliticAverse]

64. This post is justification for bringing back the unrec... n/t

[MineralMan]

72. How much are you sending them, Ken?

[Hekate]

76. I'd like to know that myself. nt

[MineralMan]

79. Libertarians. Feh!

Ayn Rand is truly the wicked witch.

[NightWatcher]

73. KFC didn't donate to the girl's fund. Innocent duped citizens gave that money

thinking that girl had been hurt.

What about the person who pretends to have cancer so the town throws a charity softball game or carwash on their behalf? That person is desperate and so what if they people give her money thinking she was sick but was just lying to them.

This is scummy and hurts actual victims by causing people to question their stories from now on.

[Ken Burch]

85. The girl does actually have facial injuries

so your fake cancer case example doesn't work.

[MineralMan]

91. Doubling down, Ken? Really?

Self-delete. Really. You have no support in this unethical nonsense.

[Ken Burch]

123. No, simply pointing out that your example doesn't work.

It's not like the girl is pretending to have facial injuries. She really will be massively disfigured for life if she doesn't have the surgery soon. And that really would mean her life would be over before it has begun.

[Coventina]

177. Really? Her life would be over? That is way over the top.

I've seen the pictures of the little girl and she's hardly a monster!

I'm glad that a plastic surgeon volunteered to help her, and I hope he still will in spite of the fraud committed by her family.

But, to say that her life would be over without it is really uncalled for.

I have a few friends with scars on their faces, for various reasons. I have a pretty good one on my temple (acquired at the age of one year) for that matter.

One had jaw cancer, another skin cancer. I have friends with various other physical imperfections.

Not a single person of my acquaintance has had their life ended by such things.

You know the WORST aspect of any scars that child will carry? The story behind them.

My grandparents' dogs attacked me, then my family lied about it to our community, so that they could get money.

That's what she's going to be in therapy for, in future years. Not the physical scars.

[MineralMan]

211. And how, in any way, is KFC responsible for that?

Uff da!

[NightWatcher]

101. I'm sick and don't have insurance, who should I defraud?

[Boomerproud]

112. No reply from the OP-why not?

n/t

[Throd]

128. Make sure you use a child as a prop. More lucrative.

[nomorenomore08]

139. Do whatever you have to do to survive. I won't judge you so long as no one is

physically harmed.

[FrodosPet]

155. So I can come in your house and clean out your refrigerator and pantry?

You are not going to call the cops on me, or judge me, or physically impede me, because survival, right?

[nomorenomore08]

164. It's not about having free reign to break the law. That's not the point.

But I'm also sure as hell not okay with the status quo, where tens of millions of Americans struggle to survive while the number of billionaires continues to grow.

But hey, as long as you follow the law - however unjust - and think of yourself as a good citizen, nothing else matters, right?

[MADem]

223. You don't think the crime of "theft by fraud" is a real crime? It's just as real as me stealing

your credit card and having one helluva weekend in Vegas. Grifter Grannie stole money with a big fat honking LIE of a story out of the pockets of ordinary, hard working people. She has provided ZERO proof that her unnamed "insurance company" has refused in any way to treat this child.

Yet you're taking the word of a thief, and ready to fuck over a company that had absolutely NOTHING TO DO with this child's situation--nothing at all.

This is not about "billionaires." It wasn't BILLIONAIRES that Grannie grifted. No billionaires were harmed by her criminal deceit. She fucked over working stiffs with big hearts with her big honking lies.

That's just NOT OK. Your priorities and your morality and your logic when it comes to this matter are just messed up.

And, for the umpteenth time, it's REIN--free REIN. As in "letting the horses have FREE REIN." I know some people think the REIGNING royal families look like horses, but the term has nothing to do with royalty. Yes, small point--but it's irritating as hell to read it over and over here. We're Democrats, we're better educated than that.

[Hekate]

231. heh. Righteous rant, MADem, right down to the last paragraph. Don't rein those feelings in. nt

[MADem]

243. Hee! I really hate it when good, tender-hearted people get taken in. It's one of those things that

bugs the hell out of me....and it doesn't matter if it's some Grifter Grannie or the Nigerian businessman or the jerks who call Grandma and claim to be the grandson locked up in jail, just go quick now to Western Union, etc.--I hate seeing people conned and swindled, simply because they CARE.

I know this kind of thing is as old as time, the internet just makes the con easier and bigger. It infuriates me, though--I just can't believe some people can be so frigging MEAN!

[nomorenomore08]

241. Okay, now that I've had more time to think about it, my post was ill-advised.

Sometimes anger, unfortunately, does find an undeserving target. I don't think what the grandmother did was right, even if I may be inclined to see it as a product of desperation more than malice.

And you're right, it is "free rein." My mistake.

[TorchTheWitch]

200. KFC donated $30,000 and said they could keep it whether

it was a hoax or not. The rest came from average folks that didn't know the story was a hoax. Some of those people have asked GoFundMe.com to return their donations.

[erpowers]

213. KFC Pledged $30,000

KFC promised to give $30,000 to the girl's family to help pay for medical bills. They are now saying they will still give the money to the family.

[deathrind]

75. Fighting fire with napalm...

Interesting proposition, I'm gonna have think about this one for a bit...


I need to get that Dragon software, typing my thoughts on this would take forever. Short answer: morally it is reprehensible to use the child that way but when u take into consideration the action of corporations against the population at large I can't entirely condem this.

[Codeine]

81. You're assuming they're telling the truth about the denial of insurance

based on their sterling track record of honesty and integrity up to this point?

[Shrike47]

82. No, I would not behave like that. And now we know Ken Burch is a liar and a thief.

[Ken Burch]

100. Uh no, you don't know that.

What you do know is that I don't feel entitled to judge desperate people.

[Archae]

84. What the hell is going on here?

It's ok to cheat a guy with fake old wine?

Or a company with a bogus claim?

To those who say "Yes," can I walk into your home and take whatever I want?
Same (lack of) true logic.

[nomorenomore08]

115. And when a select few accrue billions and billions of dollars while millions of their countrymen

go without food, housing, medical care? That's not an injustice?

[richmwill]

86. Ok, sure- $135,000 swindled from caring citizens is "justified"...

Because, you know- an "Evil Corporation" is involved, so that makes all of what was done ok. Sure.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

88. Are you serious? Or seriously wasted?

Ever try to think an issue through?

Silly me. I should never have asked.

[davidn3600]

102. If I rob a bank and give the money to a children's hospital, does that make it justified?

[nomorenomore08]

120. Maybe it does. Why is money so sacred when human life isn't? n/t

[bluestateguy]

106. What KFC thing?

What?

[erpowers]

214. Family Claimed They Were Asked To Leave

A family from Mississippi claimed they had gone to a KFC restaurant and while there had been asked by one, or more of the employees of the restaurant to leave. The family said the reason given was that other customers were complaining about the girls scars. The girl had been mauled by her grandfather's pitbulls.

[BillZBubb]

110. Sorry Ken, not justified.

You got this one wrong.

[hrmjustin]

133. I am glad that this child is getting help and it has not been proven either way. Hoaxes are not

justified.

[itsrobert]

134. Snowden fan?

How did I know?

[TacoD]

163. Fuck that shit.

DU stands largely with Edward Snowden, and resoundingly against this OP.

[fishwax]

144. but they didn't get any money from the big corporation, did they?

They got money from regular people, and under false pretenses.

[Ken Burch]

149. Actually, they got 30K from KFC n/t.

[fishwax]

170. I wasn't aware of that, thanks n/t

[meadowlark5]

153. Cosmetic surgery is never covered by medical insurance

The insurance, if they have any, would cover the cost of repairing the girl's face for function and use stitching to minimizing scarring. But once she can use her mouth to eat or her eye area repaired to see, then you get into aesthetics and not function and insurance won't cover it. Reconstructive surgery is different than what seems is being talked about here - surgery to help her no longer have the scars (cosmetic/aesthetic).

There are a lot of people out there in desperate situations - a lot. What the hell kind of country would this be if every desperate person tried to dupe businesses and average people out of money to resolve their financial crisis?

I think this family feels guilty more than desperate. It was their negligence that caused the injury to this innocent little girl.

[Hekate]

166. Getting the "cosmetic" part of reconstructive surgery approved is a long haul process

We went through that with our son. The insurance company always says no at the outset, and it's up to you to keep pushing. We had a good plastic surgeon and he was in our corner, but the main effort was up to us. You just don't take no for an answer for something this important.

Strangely enough, I can see that a family that would keep pit bulls so carelessly that the dogs maimed and almost killed their toddler, would also be incapable of maintaining records of their letters and phone calls to the insurance company and doing ongoing negotiations like all the rest of us have to do.

And now they appear to have tried to solve their problem by defrauding the public. Another poster pointed out that the blue-collar workers at that KFC store had to endure hate-mail and threats of violence thanks to this charming family.

I have a feeling the family will be having an ongoing relationship with Child Protective Services if they don't already after the pit bull incident, in addition to the detectives at the police dept.

[nomorenomore08]

182. What they did wasn't right. The fact that they had to resort to it is even worse. n/t

[Hekate]

188. "Had to" is not the operative phrase, sadly enough. nt

[nomorenomore08]

180. "What the hell kind of country would this be..."

It's a pretty shitty one already, to be sure.

[meadowlark5]

190. It's pretty bad for a lot of people

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's shitty overall. But it's headed that way. I think it could be reversed but it has to happen soon.

[Puzzledtraveller]

196. I'm a Medicaid caseworker.

There are numerous way in which the child can receive the help she needs. That being said I have had many clients who have put their personal needs and greed in front of their children's well being.

[MADem]

225. +++++++1! nt

[Peacetrain]

158. My sympathies are with that poor child who was attacked

by viscous dogs kept by the family members

And with the poor workers of KFC who were wrongly accused and getting a lot of hate for being cruel to a child who had suffered so much.

Of course they (the family) had other choices.

Not keeping dogs like that around little kids for one thing!

And then not accusing innocent people of horrid cruelty.


talk about going down the rabbit hole the wrong way to make a point..

[Android3.14]

162. I can only hope that the OP is a hoax

Talk about morally bankrupt.

[WillowTree]

169. So you're saying that, in your world.......

....... two wrongs actually do make a right? Even though the second wrong is perpetrated against an entity that had nothing to do with the original wrong?

OK. But that's not a position that I would be particularly proud of, that's for sure.

[book_worm]

171. Ridiculous.

[Generic Brad]

173. What has "Big Chicken" done that deserves the righting of a wrong?

There is nothing in this story that justifies the actions of the family against KFC. Desperation does not make this OK.

[Squinch]

176. Ummmm... no.

[LadyHawkAZ]

178. Is it going to put KFC out of business? No.

Is it going to change the corporate and tax structures that allow companies and individuals to hoard money at the expense of workers and the public? No.

Is it going to strengthen the ACA or government safety nets? No.

Is it going to gain positive attention or public sympathy for those causes? No.

Did it do anything at all other than make a large corporation look like a victim? No.

Not justified and not helpful.

[Warren DeMontague]

181. I thought this had to be satire.

But I think you're serious.

[nomorenomore08]

183. Shows you how desperate things have gotten in this country, I suppose.

I personally am very, very scared for our collective future.

[Warren DeMontague]

184. I'm not an expert on the story, but I think the problem started when the grandparents let their

pit bull too close to the 3 year old's face.

Now they'd like to blame someone else. Anyone else.

[nomorenomore08]

186. I absolutely agree on that point. Terrible situation that could have been avoided

with a little less negligence.

[WillowTree]

185. Can someone provide a link.......

.......to the story that talks about insurance denying coverage for the child's injuries. All I can find online are stories where the family is still swearing that this really happened and they don't say anything about insurance not paying. I'm obviously not looking in the right place(s).

[TorchTheWitch]

235. that only came from the family

And they never said the unnamed insurance company was denying payment for her injuries. They only complained that the unnamed insurance company denied payment for the formula that goes into her feeding tube over X amount of money. Of course, there is no way of knowing whether or not there was any amount of money concerning the alleged feeding tube that the alleged insurance company wouldn't pay for.

Since they've taken down the facebook page for the child as well as the donation page there's now no way to verify what they said about the unnamed insurance company.

[WillowTree]

236. Gotcha. Thanks much for the info.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

189. I've said it before and I'll say it again...

Tea Party + Spell Check = Democratic Underground

This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've read on the internet this week.

[mythology]

191. As others have said, no it's not justified

The people this family stole from aren't the 1% or even the same people you're claiming stole from society.

This family is trash and now everybody knows it. If you're so supportive of them, feel free to send the grifters some of your money. Personally I feel bad for the people they lied to and screwed out of money.

[Alex P Notkeaton]

192. No

Fabrication is what Republicretins do.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

193. Yeahhhh, maaaaan

Fight the power

[dilby]

202. Sure, and when the family buys an SUV with the money donated

instead of spending it on medical care for the little girl we can blame it on the social inequality of the Auto Industry.

[alphafemale]

208. I would practically guarantee that.

The majority of that money will not be spent on that little girl.

Grifters.

Period.

[erpowers]

222. Doctors Offered Free Medical Care

A Las Vegas plastic surgeon offered to provide the girl with free cosmetic surgery. A doctor in Florida offered to give the girl a free prosthetic eye. So, it seems if the family does eventually take all the money people have donated and uses it to buy an SUV they may say, since all her medical bills were already paid they decided to not let the money go to waste and that the money should be to good use by buying a nice vehicle.

http://khon2.com/2014/06/22/las-vegas-doctor-helping-mississippi-girl-from-kfc-incident/

[OwnedByCats]

204. You really have to be kidding, right?

Nope, I guess not since you actually have tried to defend this terrible OP multiple times.

You are so wrong on this.

So many have already explained very eloquently why you are dead wrong so I will leave it here.

Unbelievable. Smfh.

[ileus]

205. Yeah! Fuck right and wrong...

Oh and I can guarantee I wouldn't do the same thing.

[SidDithers]

206. FFS...

Sid

[alphafemale]

207. I witnessed a woman trying to pull a grift once.

She carefully laid down where there had been a spill and started hollering and shrieking.

There had been one of those yellow signs put up, but the clean up hadn't occurred yet.

I walked up to the store manager and let him know what I had seen and that I would be willing to testify to it in court.

She was really pissed at me.

Good.

I despise grifters.

They are always walking around looking to gouge money out of someone.

There is no misfortune they won't exploit and where there is not one they will invent one.

[erpowers]

212. The Hoax Was Not Justified

If this was in fact a hoax it was not justified. This family was not in a position in which they could not find a way to pay for the child's medical care. They could have gone to one of the fund my cause websites and done a video asking for help with their bills. I imagine they could have gotten a few thousand dollars. They could have also asked if someone knew a good plastic surgeon who would be willing to perform surgeries for free or at a reduced price. I imagine someone would have stepped up to either provide the free surgeries, pay for the surgeries, or hold a fundraiser to pay for the surgeries.

I think many people at this website and beyond can say they would not have done the same thing. Many people everyday choose not to conduct a hoax to get money for the things they need. These are not the only people who have ever found themselves in a situation were they needed something, but did not have the money to get what they needed. Many of those people decided to either go without what they needed, or to ask for help in getting what they needed.

[cbdo2007]

215. how much money did you send them??

You insist on everyone else paying their bills....so how much did you chip in?

[Coventina]

216. The poster was asked that upthread. Surprisingly (not) he never replied.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

217. pure horseshit...

but go on believing that trying to steal from ANYONE is ok... and, no, I would not do the same thing. you might... and given this screed we can assume you will if given the opportunity.

sP

[Coventina]

219. Hi there! Nice to see you!

I've been away for a long time, just recently back.

Glad to see you're still around!

[hrmjustin]

220. If the parents lied they will likely be charged. I hope they didn't.

[Texasgal]

224. Good GAWD.

Seriously?

This is insane! No. There is NOTHING justifiable able this.

I feel like I am in the fucking twighlight zone. Or some weird parallel universe.

[ecstatic]

226. are you an anarchist?

I don't agree or associate with your mindset or values.

[Savannahmann]

227. It looks like the majority have utterly rejected your premise

Certainly that does not make the premise completely wrong, but at the minimum it would suggest that you re-examine your premise. I would urge you to do so, because lies for the best of reasons, are still lies.

[ecstatic]

228. That's an interesting idea

Do you really think it's possible for someone to re-examine views of this nature?

I ended a friendship with someone who holds similar beliefs (although his beliefs were much more alarming and criminal in nature) because I don't believe a person can change when it comes to things like that. Such thoughts don't exist in a vacuum, they are based on many different ideas and conclusions we've made over a lifetime.

[Savannahmann]

233. All things can change.

Over the life of this planet. Mountains have been thrust into the sky by forces we can barely imagine. Those mountains have eroded away to nothing. Huge glaciers swept out from the poles, crushing things beneath their immense weight, and then melted away to become lakes, streams, oceans. Change in the form of atrophy is one of the constants of the universe.

People can change. A hundred years ago, women did not have the right to vote. Now, generally speaking, we as a people see women as the equal of men in most every field of endeavor. Women fly jet fighters. Women are at the upper levels of management. Many women have risen to the pinnacle of a nations Government. We have had and continue to have Women Governors, women doctors, lawyers, and every other range of human activity. In World War II, we would not have been able to accomplish a fraction of what we did without strong and intelligent women pitching in. Women flew aircraft on long and dangerous shuttle flights. Women mathematicians did the calculations to create artillery charts. Women worked on the Manhattan project.

Attitudes changed, in many people during their lifetimes. I know, during the short span of our lives, change seems to come very slowly. Sometimes not at all.

So let's talk about a change that happened during my lifetime. In the 1980's, I walked with those who were arguing for AIDS funding. The disease barely had a name then, often just called the Grip. Homosexuals were shunned by society at large. The Homosexual community had to hide in fear of being targeted for retributions. Today, homosexuals can be far more open, and those who express opinions contrary to the live and let live variety are often the ones who suffer the retributions. Gay Marriage and thus total equality is not yet a thing of accepted fact, but I have every reason to believe it is coming. This is during my lifetime, one lifetime and look at all that change so far. Yes we have more to go, but it takes time for people to examine their beliefs, and consider what they have heard. Nothing changes immediately, and nothing should change immediately. We are humans, and we should take such changes slowly, carefully, making sure we have considered it as much as humanly possible. Because if we were so quick to change, like a military formation turning left, then who knows where we would be right now. The radical changes we experienced after 9-11 speak highly for this slow and steady progress model, because reactionary changes never turn out good for any of us.

So yes, I believe that people can change, I've seen them do so. Yes, I believe that individuals can change as time and experience join to form wisdom in the minds of the people.

[nomorenomore08]

242. I certainly think it can be a lot more nuanced than simply "ripping people off is okay."

Like the idea that, particularly under an unjust system, "illegal" and "immoral" are not synonymous.

[madaboutharry]

229. Excuse me, Mr. Burch….

You are 1000% wrong. The grandmother SWINDLED good hearted people out of money. It was a CON JOB.

It is tragedy that a child was so badly injured and needs plastic surgery. However, the actions of her family, in my opinion, constitute a crime.

[pipi_k]

232. Excuse me...

but bullshit.

I would not do that.

You know why?

Because I know that STUPID people will get so outraged, they'll threaten the lives and safety of the innocent employees.

Which is what happened.

[Ken Burch]

244. I'M GOING TO SELF-DELETE JUST TO LOCK THIS THREAD MYSELF.

I'm not sure I was wrong, but need to think about this in greater detail.

And, for the record, were it to turn out that the funds received were not used to help the child, I would retract, in this case, what I said above.

I saw this situation as a comment on what our system makes some people feel forced to do and hoped to cause a deeper discussion of class, wealth and poverty through starting this thread. Others saw it differently.

And, if KFC employees themselves were totally innocent of wrongdoing, they shouldn't have been made victims in this.

The story is not over on this family and we may never know the entire truth. Let's leave it at that for now.