What Makes A Slut? The Only Rule, It Seems, Is Being Female - Guardian

[WillyT]

What makes a slut? The only rule, it seems, is being female
It's a warning more than a word: a reminder to women to adhere to sexual norms or be punished
Jessica Valenti - theguardian.com
Monday 23 June 2014 07.30 EDT


Being called promiscuous is sometimes just a way to excuse the behavior of others. Photograph: Josh Reynolds / AP

<snip>

Sandra Fluke heard it when she talked about insurance coverage for birth control. Sara Brown from Boston told me she was first called it at a pool party in the fifth grade because she was wearing a bikini. Courtney Caldwell in Dallas said she was tagged with it after being sexually assaulted as a freshman in high school.

Many women I asked even said that it was not having sex that inspired a young man to start rumors that they were one. And this is what is so confounding about the word "slut": it's arguably the most ubiquitous slur used against women, and yet it's nearly impossible to define.

The one thing we do know about "slut" is that it's the last thing a woman should want to be. Society is so concerned over women and girls' potential for promiscuity that we create dress codes, school curricula, even legislation around protecting women's supposed purity. Conservative columnists opine that women having sex is tantamount to a "mental health crisis", and magazine stories wonder if we're raising a generation of "prosti-tots".

Leora Tanenbaum, the author of SLUT! Growing Up Female with a Bad Reputation, told me that "a 'slut' is a girl or woman who deviates from norms of femininity. The 'slut' is not necessarily sexually active – she just doesn't follow the gender script."

This nebulous, unquantifiable quality of the slur is what makes it so distressing – there's no way to disprove something that has no conclusive boundaries to begin with. And because it's meant to be more of an identity than a label, it's a term not easily shaken off. "Slut" sticks to a person in a way that "asshole" never will.

So what makes you a slut? It seems the the only hard and fast rule is that you have to be a woman.

Men, of course, are immune – absent, really – from the frenzy of concern. For instance, a new study out...

<snip>

More: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/23/slut-female-word-women-being-female

[The Road Runner]

1. It's an awful double standard...

...I had thought we'd learned and moved past this as a culture. Apparently not.

[Warpy]

2. We don't have a chance of moving past it

until both men and women realize it's a problem.

[WillyT]

4. Agreed...

I used to ask new fathers that were friends of mine, "So you have a daughter... what are you gonna do when she gets old enough to date?"

And there would be a look and a great pause...

And I would laugh, and say, "You just remembered how you were when you first started dating. Does it ever occur to you, that you might be protecting your daughter from someone like you were back then?"

If they had a son... I'd ask other questions to draw out the double-standard.

In the end... I'd suggest that having a well centered/adjusted, thinking, loving, NORMAL daughter...

Would be better than have a 45 year old "Protected" daughter living with you for the rest of your, and their, lives.

[Skittles]

9. if anything, it has gotten worse

[seabeyond]

11. i think so also. which is too odd. it lets us know that there is something underlining the

issue, that we need to identify and address.

intellectually we now know, womens sexuality is as awesome, independent and self owned as much as a mans. instead of progressing forward, we are taking steps backward.

[R B Garr]

31. You are so right.

It does seem like it has gotten worse. For many years now, especially since the date rape drugs started being reported on in more depth, it just seems like women have borne the brunt of that cultural phenomenon of gaining access to women through drugging them, even (and especially) out in public at bars where they are already receptive to being social with their friends and meeting new people. So now if you want to dress up and go out for drinks, if something untoward happens that is out of your control, it's blamed on the woman.

Anyway, that's how it's been a realization for me that it's gotten worse over a period of years. I used to dress up and go bar hopping in my younger days, but I can't even imagine it now with a risk of someone slipping you a drug that completely disables you. Scary, yet women are subjected to this and are labeled sluts because of their choice to socialize in those settings.

[alarimer]

24. No, just look at the comments on this article.

I guess I am a glutton for punishment so I usually read the comments of articles such as this and I am usually not disappointed. Most of them seemed to miss the point entirely. Or they say it's women who call other women sluts. It's as if they never imagined internalized misogyny.

[nomorenomore08]

51. "You think it's okay for women to sleep around? Do you want your *daughter* to sleep around"

Completely ignoring the fact that we don't typically "worry" about men in this fashion.

[Uncle Joe]

3. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, WillyT.

[WillyT]

5. Anytime... Uncle Joe, Anytime...

[Uncle Joe]

6. Peace to you, WillyT.

[seabeyond]

7. prude or slut. they are both used against women to shame in our sexuality.

regardless of what our sexuality actually is, does not matter.

often on du, we have posters claim women that speak out against sexism are prudes. no better or worse than the rw using slut against women.

tell me... how we shame men with their sexuality?

stud? not gonna cut it.

[WillyT]

8. pssst...

Men who are loving, respectful, supportive, encouraging...

And who, by loving agreement, share sexual relations with women...

Usually keep their mouths shut... and NEVER use the words, "Prude" or "Slut"...

Percentages of who's who, may vary.

Just sayin.

[seabeyond]

10. running across all of du...

to give you a hug.

good to know.

it is not in my personal life.

one time my brother used a word on me and my father literally flew over a couch to get at him. i hadnt even processed it before he had him up against a wall. that was the only time.

thanks willy. and thanks for the Op.

[WillyT]

17. Thanks sea...

[AngryAmish]

12. Welcome back aboard!

How did you use your shore leave?

[seabeyond]

14. lol lol lol. it is so common now,

meh. it will happen again. a time out, to learn my lesson.

[AngryAmish]

19. I caught two in about an hour when I was drunk.

I'm drunk a lot. Glad to see you back.

[seabeyond]

22. and i do it sober, go figure. and

thank you

[sufrommich]

95. Very true Sea. Well said. nt

[riderinthestorm]

13. Slut shaming is more about class than sex, says a new study...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/02/slutshaming-isnt-related-sexual-activity_n_5418711.html



My daughter is a victim of this. Our "social class" is ambiguous and she was a prime target. Ugly stuff...

[seabeyond]

16. i betcha it is.... and isnt. my favorite was a co worker that wanted to date. frist no's made me

a shy virgin. he would just be gentle in getting his way. then when it remained a no.... i was the lesbian. and finally, when he saw me dating others, i was the slut.

but ya. i see it also as perceived low class.

the study where these women played around less than their counter...?

i am sorry your daughter experienced/is experiencing this.

i am watching my 21 yr old niece, totally comfortable in her sexuality, doing her playing. i see her now, and remember our day of still conditioning, and i am having a blast considering, excited in the changes.

[BainsBane]

15. So-called "slut shaming" and calling women prudes are in fact the same

They are shaming a woman for their own sexual choices or for simply for being women. I wrote an OP about this a while back. I'm linking to it here to avoid rewriting the same thing, in case anyone happens to be interested: http://www.democraticunderground.com/125544521

[Bonobo]

45. And here is you doing exactly the same thing to another poster.

But naturally even though EXACTLY the same 3 letter phrase "TMI" (Too much information) was used to you that you used to the poster in this link, you call it "shaming" when it happens to you but something else when you do the same thing to another poster.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024050423#post440

[BainsBane]

47. As much as you think everything is about you

It is not. My comment here has absolutely nothing to do with you, and in fact you never entered my head while I was making it.
That OP is about a phenomenon, and while prompted by a comment from you is about a broader issue and mentions you nowhere. But since you want to get technical, it is not EXACTLY the same at all. Since you have decided to out yourself, I will link to the exchange so that people can decide for themselves.

Discussion begins here: http://www.discussionist.com/101521148#post106
You enter here: http://www.discussionist.com/101521148#post142

I ask you this: http://www.discussionist.com/101521148#post144

Then you say THIS: http://www.discussionist.com/101521148#post148

That was the comment that prompted my realization of a phenomenon that I wrote about.

Then you responded this way to someone who told you your behavior was shameful: http://www.discussionist.com/101521148#post157

And then you justified it this way. http://www.discussionist.com/101521148#post162

Your persecution complex is off the charts. You imagine all kinds of insults I never made, and I have told you that at the time you insisted I made them. You take every comment personally when it is not intended as such. This is one such example. Additionally, in another thread on that site I provided dozens of links pointing to your own treatment of others, including some of the posts that earned you two months or so of leave from DU.

Do yourself a favor and put me on ignore. Unless of course you relish inventing slights to complain about, which I suspect may be the case. At any rate, I am long since bored. I do not find your ego nearly as fascinating as you do, and I would prefer not to be burdened with it in the future.

[Bonobo]

52. I am happy to have this conversation.

And you already admitted that the "shaming" incident involved my very brief comment "TMI".

Now let me relate what your self-deleted comment involved -and what prompted me to say "TMI".

You went into explicit detail about how you enjoy giving and receiving oral sex -to which I replied "TMI"...because it was. So it is not an issue of "shaming" your sexuality so much as calling you out on a really inappropriately detailed sexual story.

Imagine for a moment, if you will, that I posted about how I like to get blowjobs from women and then go down on them. How long do you suppose it would be before one of you or your friends called me out as a misogynist who likes to shame women? After all, you think that "sucking dicks" is itself a comment which is all about "putting women in their place."

Will you really be so dishonest as to pretend that my post about liking blowjobs would not be met by attack? Forgive me if i find that suggestion untenable.

So yes, you telling a poster who is into BDSM that he gave "too much information" is EXACTLY the same as what I said to you.

As for ignore, no thanks, but you are welcome to put ME on ignore. Frankly considering how much you ask me to put you on ignore, I can't fathom why you don't just do that to me.

[BainsBane]

54. My deletes were before you entered the discussion

and it's a good thing I made them or you'd have ridiculed me even more. I deleted nothing after you made your comments.

I'm not interested in your thoughts on the subject. I wasn't talking to you, and I never asked you to have any interest in that discussion or in me at all. In fact, I have specifically asked you to get over whatever fixation it is you have with me. I want to be perfectly clear: I am not happy to have this or any other conversation with you. Good night and good luck.

[seabeyond]

56. he does follow you around. nt

[BainsBane]

60. and then the alerts come

clearly necessary to protect free speech.

[Bonobo]

63. Just as I was alerted on on my first post after my return in a response to you. nt

[BainsBane]

64. If someone uses mental illness as an insult

I will alert. Count on it. That a jury hid it should tell you something. Attacks against me are rarely hidden. Additionally, I didn't say I was "happy to have this conversation" while alerting. I gave the post the attention it deserved.

[Bonobo]

65. A persecution complex is a mental illness too.

Hypocrisy. Again.

[Bonobo]

67. Umm, LOL, no. She said I had a persecution complex in the post above.

Is it now going to become magically okay that SHE said that to me? You just expressed (mistaken) outrage that I said it to her.

So what now? Will you edit? Will you delete? Will you pretend you didn't say it? Will you say it is justified?

This will be amusing.

[seabeyond]

68. i do not know where she said it. i do know you and others have said we are mentally ill, damaged,

ect...

i deleted.

[Bonobo]

69. She said it right above.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5148131

How many times have HOFfers talked about damaged little men? God, you're such hypocrites.

I KNEW you would delete.

You were OUTRAGED when you thought I had said it to her.

Suddenly it's no big thing.

It's really something... It really is.

[seabeyond]

70. oh bullshit.

[BainsBane]

75. Naturally the only insults that count

are against you. Your linked posts are full on insults, and you think them justified. You go on to insist they are justified because of a million slights you invent. Of all the terms I might have used to describe that rant of yours, the one I chose was mild. I have never once had a post to you hidden, so I can hardly have said anything so awful. The same can't be said for you in responses to me. Additionally, you get away with a lot. You can call people psychopaths, but if anyone makes an observation about you, then it's an outrage.

What I recall is that you choose to call yourself names you insist I have used against you after I point to the subject and content of what you have said in some threads, without calling you anything. If you take offense at having your own posts pointed out to you, perhaps the problem is with what you write? If I had said any of the stuff you claim I have, it would have been hidden by juries. You seem not to understand that there is a difference between what someone actually writes and how you feel after reading the post.

Fact, the phrase I mentioned is not a mental illness. That you can provide no DSM listing or even have a sense of which axis it might fall under shows that, as does the WebMD post I provided.

Now you've posted another thread complaining about hypersensitivity to words, with no sense of irony. If you would just say what you mean: when others complain about word sensitivity, their are hypersensitive nannies; when I do it's justified, because of ME. I have no reason to doubt that you believe what I write is intended to wound you personally, but the fact is you rarely cross my mind unless you come and pester me as you have here. Considering you see discussion with me as so traumatic, simply avoid it. Why would anyone subject themselves to something they consider so damaging? That is something you would be well advised to think about.

[Bonobo]

88. You have a hypocritical attitude about silencing others.

You say you were shamed by me for saying "TMI" about a detailed post about your sexual preferences when you did the same thing to another poster and I called you out on it.

Everything else that happened here is just window dressing to that -and quite Meta.

I am content to leave it where it stands -your receiving notice about a double standard.

I won't be helping you to raise the Meta ante any further.

[BainsBane]

93. If you actually read what I had written

rather than continuing the blatant distortion I reacted to your TMI comment alone, you might learn something. Clearly you are determined not to do so. I indeed said TMI, but I did not go on to tell him to shut up about his "sexcapades," and then hurl misogynist insults when challenged by another poster. That was your doing. Additionally, I did not intrude into a discussion between him and another member to denounce him for daring to write about something that didn't interest me, when no one asked me to be interested. To reduce it all to a singe phrase "TMI" tells me that you have paid no attention whatsoever to what I've written in that OP or in this thread. You are desperate to justify your comments, and frankly I don't care one way or the other. That is entirely your own trip. Absolve yourself if you must; just leave me out of it.

You are the one who made the discussion Meta by coming in here to pick a fight, determined to make my comment about shaming to be all about you. That OP was about the broader issue of shaming about which your comments were merely a point from which I started to think about things. Naturally you find it inconceivable that a woman might have a discussion about which you aren't at the center so as usual you made it all about yourself, and in the process missed the entire point of WillyT's OP.

[Bonobo]

94. So if you weren't shaming with your TMI comment

Then why on earth did you say it? On what planet is it that your TMI comment was not meant to induce shame but mine was? You project SO damn much! I wouldn't even believe it if I hadn't seen you do it over and over.

[BainsBane]

72. "pscyopaths"

to be precise, on at least two occasions. That is separate from the post he had hidden the day he returned to DU from a two month hiatus.

[BainsBane]

71. Really?

Where is that in the DSM V? Under which axis?

WebMD says this:

Persecution complex is more of a popular phrase, not a clinical entity. It refers to the feeling and belief that others are out to get you or hurt you. There are various degrees. Sometimes it is an exaggeration of a real situation and at other times it is totally ungrounded in reality, a product of the person's inner life projection onto the world

.
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Depression-Mental-Health/Persecution-Complex/show/266760

Therefore not a mental illness.

Example. Today someone called me "a loon." I thought about alerting, but opted not to. It was an attack, but I considered it less serious that attributing a POV one dislikes with "mental breakdowns." I also thought it unlikely the jury would hide the comment. Your remark was hidden. Mine wasn't. The jury spoke. Deal with it.

[Bonobo]

61. It's pure hypocrisy, BB.

And I will always call that out.

But if I ever DO find myself feeling tasteless enough to make a post about how I like to get blowjobs (something I would never do) please remember not to chastise me for it since, apparently, the phrase "TMI" falls under the category of "shaming people for their sexuality".

BTW, on a discussion board, you have tools to make sure we never have this conversation again. It is called the "ignore" tool. Use it if you wish, but if you choose not to do so, please do not pretend that I need some sort of permission from you to respond to your posts. I most assuredly do not.

[seabeyond]

49. rape porn? you are comparing calling women sluts and prudes to men getting off on rape porn?

[Bonobo]

53. That poster never said he got off on rape porn.

So......no.

[seabeyond]

55. yes. you are comparing a conversation during our oh so much fuggin fun defense of rape porn

to our girls and women being called sluts and prudes, to shame them thru their sexuality. that is exactly what you are doing.

done.

[Bonobo]

62. A check in on the link will show that to be untrue.

Now we are done.

[zipplewrath]

18. No word for it

I've known several male "sluts" over the years. Don't kid yourself, even alot of the men don't like them. But every time I've known them and discussed it with other men, I've pointed out that there is no word for it. "Cad" doesn't really cover it. Jackass isn't specific enough. Neither is "scum of the earth". Yet in the female gender we have "Slut, tramp, whore" and several I won't use in this context. There is a significant gender bias in our language and I'm not sure anyone ever studied the origins of it.

[geek tragedy]

20. if the laws can't control women, they try to use language as a substitute nt

[seabeyond]

26. +1. perfect. and to the point. we watch it daily. lets not fool ourselves. nt

[Luminous Animal]

27. Yep. And there will be a multitude of DUers who will say language doesn't matter.

Except, you know. We don't call Italians s***s any more. Or Jews k****s, or Mexicans w*******s. Or African Americans n*****s, or gays f*****s.

But it is okay to call women w****s, c***s, b*****s, because s***s, k****s, w*******s, n*****s, and f*****s do. And white strait guys do, too.

[geek tragedy]

28. I wonder about the psychological makeup of any man who feels threatened or angry

about disapproval of the c-bomb

[Luminous Animal]

30. I can't wait for the condemnation from DUers who defended the b-bomb when Hillary is labelled with

it all over the right wing internet.

Shakesville, Feministe, and Jezebel all did an excellent job of tracking misogynists attacks against both Clinton and Palin in 2008.

[geek tragedy]

35. truth is there's a lot of misogyny and racism and homophobia that's just

under the surface. It's easy to condemn misogyny or racism when it's directed at someone you like.

But, with a lot of people it bubbles up, or even erupts, when a black person, or woman, etc pisses them off.

I can't tell the difference between the Republican and Democratic misogynists over at discussionist--they sound exactly the same, because at their core they are

[Luminous Animal]

38. Yep. Discussionist seems to me to be a safe place to call women bitches. The Admins here have given

the thumbs up that calling women bitches is A-OKn but when DUers do, they get a healthy amount of push back.

[geek tragedy]

39. discussionist is merely the extension of the jury system's logic

to its repulsive, but logical end.

throw the doors open to the bigots and psychos, and they wind up running the place

one of the most important things a web community organizer has to ask is "what kind of people do we want to discourage from joining?' Not everyone can be made welcome--who is made to feel unwelcome is the question.

[WinkyDink]

21. This hasn't been news since Jezebel!

[WillyT]

23. The Thing Is... As Time Goes By... Less And Less People Even Know About Jezebel...

So... I guess new discussions are warranted.

[Alex P Notkeaton]

25. Can that word even be quoted here?

I'm no "alerter," as I'm a First Amendment Freak. I'm just wondering, because it IS a slur against women.

[Luminous Animal]

32. So. You wouldn't alert on a poster who said n****r? Or f****t?

[Alex P Notkeaton]

33. As you can see by my post count, I'm a newb

But, even in my brief time here, I have gained tremendous confidence that other, more senior DUers would be all over such hateful language.

[Luminous Animal]

36. So, you are not a First Amendment purist because you trust others to cover your butt.

[Alex P Notkeaton]

37. I'm detecting a Self-Appointed Prosecutor here

Buh-bye!

[Luminous Animal]

40. I suspect suspecting. (Cue spooky music. Roll eyes back and forth back and forth.) Thanks for the

intelligent discussion.

[seabeyond]

34. actually, i am hearing more a defense for the use (1st adm) and the challenge discussing the word

(shouldnt it be alerted on in this framing) which seems a bit, ... just a tad.... topsy turvy to me

[TampaAnimusVortex]

96. You dont think you just spelled those words there?

Just because you put asterisks in something doesnt mean you didn’t convey the word. You are conveying those words into the mind of the listener just as if you had spelled them correctly. See what Louis CK has to say about it, around 5m26s

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. yup

[PowerToThePeople]

41. imo, words and thoughts that come from men with small

sense of self worth.

They have to "put her in her place." I have seen it first hand a lot, even from younger (supposedly more accepting) generations.

[davidn3600]

42. Slut-shaming seems to be more of a problem among women

Social conservatives do slut-shame due to their religion suggesting women stay "pure." But other than that, slut-shaming seems to be FOR THE MOST PART more something women do to each other to bully each other or define their social hierarchies, beyond sexual promiscuity. There was actually a study that showed this among college women.

"Catty" behavior I think is what most would call it. I've seen it in high school. I've seen it in college. And I've seen it in pretty much every professional environment I have ever been in. Heck...you even see it on practically every reality show!

Even if tomorrow every man in the world agreed to stop using the word "slut," you'd still have a huge problem with women using it.

[Gravitycollapse]

43. Like I said when you made this claim before, that study you reference didn't examine college men.

Discussing a study without reading it is stupidity of the highest order.

The study was a specific examination of how slut shaming is used to regulate image and action within women on campus.

It did not make the claim that slut shaming is "more of a problem among women."

[davidn3600]

48. I can't remember a single time my group of friends slut-shamed a woman

When I was in college, I can't remember a single time when us group of guys slut-shamed a woman. I can't speak for every man on campus nor any other campus. But it never happened in my group of friends.

Now...the word "bitch" might have been tossed about a couple times especially during a break-ups or emotions flying high. But that wasn't an everyday thing.

However, I do remember women would use slut, whore, bitch, even the c-word over and over again describing each other. They'd spread rumors and stab each other in the back. And to be completely honest...that kind of cattiness is a turnoff to guys. Im dead serious...90% of men want nothing to do with that kind of garbage. We stay out of it.

In fact, in high school I remember a girl I was friends with, and the only friends she had were guys. Why? Because she was slut-shamed by other GIRLS and none of them wanted to be friends with her for fear her slut reputation might rub off on them.

So don't come here and make this claim that all women are part of this massive sisterhood where you have each others backs in the fight against the patriarchy. You don't!

[nomorenomore08]

57. No one is immune to cultural conditioning. We need to always remember that.

But we also can't use one person's "bad programming" as an excuse for another's, or our own.

[Gravitycollapse]

59. "But it never happened in my group of friends." - That is a fabricated belief.

Either you believe such a lie or you're conscious of the lie. Either way, it's a fairytale.

Slut shaming is a mechanism of hegemonic masculinity. Precisely because of this remote rule, the mechanism itself is wound up and placed into the hands of the subjugated. The system cannot possibly rely entirely on the subordination imposed only by the ruling class. It must delegate responsibility out amongst the ruled. Thus, the subjugated set up hierarchies that, on the surface, are designed merely as a means of personal gain (which is true in a sense), but actually are deeply involved in maintaining the power of the ruling class.

This is analogous to the management structure of a large corporation. The philosophy of the corporation is a reflection of the executives which is largely dictated to the workers through the rule of the middle and lower management positions (managers who rose out of the body of workers). The managers are mimicking the executives precisely because they know such actions just might allow them to become gate-keepers themselves and escape their own subjugation. Even though they will almost certainly never become executives themselves.

Pynchon's first proverb for paranoids:

1. You may never get to touch the Master, but you can tickle his creatures.

I think that through this argument we defeat the very core of your argument. Which is essentially to accuse me of scapegoating the responsibility of women slut shaming other women onto men; it may almost appear as though I'm stealing away the agency of women by arguing how their actions maintain a greater cause.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The actions of women in slut shaming other women are reprehensible. But each action is not just the product of some spontaneous desire to dominate. It reflects the philosophy of the entire system of male supremacy.

So when you say:

90% of men want nothing to do with that kind of garbage. We stay out of it.

What this really reflects is a desire to gain all of the rewards of slut shaming without getting one's hands very dirty. Do not be confused, however, with the idea that you don't slut shame all the time. You do in all sorts of seemingly minor ways. In fact, that is the benefit of being in the ruling class. Intention can become deeply subliminal because you have the power to create a desired effect with much less effort.

[BainsBane]

74. How many times have men on DU called women prudes?

That is the same thing as s... shaming, as this article makes clear. And whatever you claim to remember is irrelevant. You have made your views on women clear through your posting history.

When people talk about how women should dress to avoid rape, that is shaming. When they claim women are responsible for their own objectification for wearing heels and lipstick, that is shaming. When they talk about how women don't behave like women, that is shaming. The point of the article is not that women are responsible for all ills in society, but rather that women are shamed for their sexuality generally, for being women, because there is no space in which our sexuality suffices, unless we do exactly as men tell us. Your arguments are a continuation of that same dominance. You are always talking about how women fail to meet your expectations for what they should be--they aren't feminine enough, they don't devote themselves to looking after men like they should, and now that they are solely responsible for shaming that has nothing whatsoever to do with the men the rest of us see do it all the time.

[seabeyond]

79. this is such a good post baines. i do not even bother too often. yet, it is very good for others

to read for a clearer picture.

very good. thank you

[BainsBane]

44. Ignore the article

for your usual rant. Clearly you are wrong. It is designed to control women. Yes, some women engage in misogyny, usually in order to curry favor with men. It's a sad thing, but to blame women for something that is clearly not done primarily by men is in keeping with your usual distorted view of the world.

You always claim to know what women, and feminists in particular think and say, yet make a point of paying no attention whatsoever to what any of us actually do say. It would help if actually listened to real women rather than repeating MRA propaganda about us.

[Bonobo]

46. Study: Women Slut-Shame Each Other On Twitter as Much as Men Do

http://time.com/107228/women-misogyny-twitter-study-demos/

[noiretextatique]

73. it is mostly cultural

And in a patriarcial culture, women are not immune to cultural messages. It is really not that deep, yet clearly not as simplistic as you are suggesting. In other words, one study about Twitter doesn't make your observation any less shallow or simplistic. Hint: ignorant trolls often pose as female or black to spout hateful shit...then point fingers.

[Warpy]

58. That happens a lot in middle school through high school

Girl bullies mostly use hurtful gossip against their peers, although they've been known to batter some targets. Slut shaming, putting you into that category of despised bullying target, is now being done online as well as in school. Girls can't get away from it and some of them don't make it, committing suicide before they realize it's just temporary.

After high school when nearly everybody is sexually active and don't bother to lie about it, the slut shaming shifts onto male shoulders to use against women they want to control, which is most of us at one time or another.

The main thing this article got exactly right is, "So what makes you a slut? It seems the the only hard and fast rule is that you have to be a woman."

Truer words were never spoken

[nomorenomore08]

50. "...there's no way to disprove something that has no conclusive boundaries to begin with."

Exactly. The whole point is to put someone in an impossible psychological quandary, so that they "do what they're told" and are too afraid to question anything.

This may not be a perfect comparison, but consider the use of gay slurs in relation to (usually heterosexual) men.

[bunnies]

76. My boss is well known as a slut...

By the women who work for him. Not sure what else I can say here. Probably nothing.

[WillyT]

77. Wow... I Thought The Thread Had Been Hijacked... Thank You !!

[bunnies]

78. :)

I had to interject because its true. Maybe it makes us bad people though. Calling him a slut and all.

on edit: full disclosure: we also call him a whore.

[seabeyond]

80. and while you do, does he get a huge smile, glow a little and pat himself on the

back as he struts off?

i really do not know too many men that would feel insulted.

[bunnies]

81. actually...

He does. Though we dont often do it to his face... he's been told that a woman who was interested in him was turned off by a guy who knew him telling her he was "a whore". He certainly did seem to enjoy hearing that, now that you mention it.

on edit: I know this because I was the one to tell him that his reputation had preceded him. He wasnt bothered in the least. Not at all.

[seabeyond]

82. sigh... lol. and that would be the difference. nt

[bunnies]

83. Youre right.

I guess I always understand the words "slut" and "whore" to be an insult. Something bad. Perhaps its so ingrained in me, as a female, that I cant see it any other way. Doesnt bother him though. I just always thought he was too stupid to get it. Im talking about a guy who would have sex with a mother and daughter and play them against each other without a care.

Maybe we need to pick a new word for him. One he cant wear as a badge of honor. Cant be "asshole" though. Hes proud of that one too.

[seabeyond]

84. creep. nt

[bunnies]

85. thats an understatement. nt

[seabeyond]

86. i am sorry you have to spend your work days with a man like that. it just makes your days a little

less pleasant when it does not have to be, nor should it be like this.

[bunnies]

87. Whats weird is that he's intimidated by strong women.

He knows the ones he can control and back down from the ones he cant. But yeah, Ive seen what he's done to some and how he controls them. Just because they're trying to feed their kids. Its sick.

[seabeyond]

89. ah. who is the coward now. ya.

just an all around not nice guy. someone that would use a mom and daughter then play them is a bottomfeeder.

i have always been lucky, not having that garbage around my work. i have always worked in very woman friendly environments. totally value that.

[bunnies]

90. bottomfeeder.

Thats the word. Oh, he's not gonna like that. Mr. Big Rich Get Any Woman He Wants is NOT gonna like that. Thats EXACTLY what he is though. Preys on the weak... feeds off the strong. Heh. Thanks, Sea.

[seabeyond]

91. yes, they do have their own feel.

[bunnies]

92. Like a giant vacuum.

Always on. Always sucking.