This is for those who don't think there is any such thing as White Privlege

[Taverner]

http://bossip.com/568229/details-on-black-former-marine-shot-to-death-by-white-cops-after-accidental-health-call-i-dont-give-a-f-k-n-r-open-the-door/

http://bossip.com/568102/more-racial-profiling-texas-woman-tells-13-year-old-go-cart-rider-you-dont-belong-in-this-neighborhood-after-jumping-curb-in-her-jeep-to-hit-him-head-on30346/2/

http://www.eonline.com/news/tyler_perry_accuses_atlanta_police_of/306539

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/waymon-hudson/trayvon-martin-white-privilege_b_1401107.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ariz-sheriff-accused-of-profiling-stands-at-legal-crossroads-settle-claims-or-head-to-trial/2012/03/31/gIQARJCJnS_story.html

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/03/lapd-accuses-officer-of-racial-profiling.html


Still think there's no such thing as white privilege?

[Taverner]

1. Let me add...

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2012/04/04-1

[bart95]

2. i agree, white's cant imagine what it's like to face employment discrimination

"Our goal is clearly not to find a qualified U.S. worker ... our objective is to get this person a green card,"

And how does an employer go about doing that in light of the legal obligation to first search for a qualified American? It's all about where you search, he says.

"Clearly we are not going to find a place where the applicants are most numerous, we're going to find a place where - again we're complying with the law - and hoping and likely not to find qualified worker applicants,"

And if despite looking in all the wrong places a gem of an American candidate pops up anyway?

"If someone looks like they are very qualified, if necessary schedule an interview; go through the whole process to find a legal basis to disqualify them,"

[Taverner]

3. OK - now imagine this facing you on every job

And you'll have a clearer idea of what non-whites go through

Until then, keep in mind White Privilege is about more than just job discrimination.

[bart95]

4. yeah, i think i understand what you're saying

even though i havnt done it myself, i'm guilty becasue of my skin color

because someone did something to someone else, another person should do it to me

[jeff47]

11. Saying that pnumonia is worse than the flu doesn't mean everyone should get pnumonia.

Likewise, saying minorities have it worse than whites doesn't mean whites should have it worse.

[redqueen]

13. Nice and succinct.

[JustAnotherGen]

20. Well said!

[Zalatix]

29. Ding ding ding!

Now if we could just apply that to gender issues, too.

[stevenleser]

56. People have been telling that poster the same thing since they joined DU a few weeks ago

They dont get it.

They do seem to hate immigrants and get upset at any suggestion that racism still exists.

[jeff47]

60. Oh, I fully realize that there's a pity party going on

But there's gonna be other people reading the thread. Might as well steer them away from it.

[noiretextatique]

18. i think you understand

even though i am a qualified accountant, some employers just see me as a black and female, then suddenly i am not a qualified accountant. even though i have done nothing myself, i am guilty because of the color of my skin. just like trayvon martin. does that mean every white person in america is a racist? no. however, there is a thing called institutional racism, and white privilege is a part of that system. some white people need to learn to separate themselves from the system. the fact that white privilege does exist is not an indictment of any individual.

[Marrah_G]

32. No no this isnt about guilt

This is about recognizing that if a person of color has the same life as you in every way, that their lives are harder because of their race. It's not about trying to equate a poor blue collar white worker with a black middle class manager. It's about two poor working class guys, one white, one black, both scraping by.... the white mans life is easier.

[fishwax]

43. "i'm guilty becasue of my skin color"

Guilty of what? Acknowledging that we live in a system where there are certain advantages that non-whites do not have access to does not imply guilt.

[HiPointDem]

48. I think it comes out that way in popular discourse a lot of the time, however.

[fishwax]

57. I rarely see it that way -- though it's not unusual to see people respond defensively

[HiPointDem]

58. I agree that people will respond defensively, even when the discourse of privilege isn't

deliberately being used as a stick to poke them with. But sometimes it is being used that way. And in the absence of an accompanying discourse of economic justice for all, it is more likely to be interpreted that way, whatever the intentions of the person offering the discourse of privilege.

[fishwax]

59. I think it's rarely used as a stick to poke anyone with

I won't say never, because obviously I can't speak to all instances, but I very rarely see it. Economic justice for all is important. But real economic justice for all can't be accomplished without also addressing such disparities that are pointed out in discussions of privilege.

[lunatica]

87. Do you always make yourself out to be the victim, therefore

the real victims should shut up? My question to you is, what are you willing to do for those who are victimized on a regular and societal way? Just keep kicking them under the bus so you can get yours without becoming a victim?

The white man is the least discriminated against. So therefore it should be kept that way because why exactly? What about women, Blacks and Latinos? Should they shut up so you can keep getting the lion's share of the privileges?

[Zalatix]

6. Look at black unemployment levels, the video you cited hurts blacks far more than whites.

[bart95]

8. yup, h-1b discrimination pretty much blows blacks out of IT completely

that's why indifference to h-1b because 'whites have it coming' makes no sense, and only results in even more injustice to blacks

but it does still tick me off to be lectured about discrimination when i havent done it and have been on the receiving end of it

i do think there's very much of a 'well, you kind of deserve it' undercurrent in the party's support of h-1b (while pocketing the tech corporation campaign cash), even though nobody has ever articulated why tech workers are singularly responsible for the past and current injustices

[Ikonoklast]

9. You are certainly twisting yourself into some fairly interesting knots over this.

I think that I recognize a Farrimond Friction Hitch in there.

[noiretextatique]

19. not just the tech sector

it's happening in the accounting field also. and the culprits are corporate decision-makers who want cheaper labor. i don't doubt that you face discrimination, so please don't doubt that i do...because i am black and female. one thing does not exclude the other, nor does it mean white privilege is not real.

[Zalatix]

30. Really, we need to get past this and deal with PLUTOCRAT privileges

The white vs black thing is just a big fat distraction to keep us divided while the power elite screws both sides out of prosperity.

[Aerows]

34. Bingo!

It's PLUTOCRAT privilege that's the problem, and it is affecting us all.

[HiPointDem]

47. And there's a very tight historical connection between plutocrat privilege and the system of

slavery and racism:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=521567

[noiretextatique]

69. +1000

there is a connection with all isms and plutocrat privilege. i like the "plutocrat privielege" term, because it really gets to the core of the problem.

[just1voice]

53. Sorry but that's a total load of shit, try being white and filing a complaint with the EEOC

I've seen it done, the EEOC tells the white person to get lost REGARDLESS OF THE BLATANT DISCRIMINATION.

It's a fact but don't let that distract you or the ensuing wall of hatred from being built. Here's the EEOC link, go there and learn something. There's all kinds of discrimination:

http://www.eeoc.gov/

[noiretextatique]

70. try being black and filing a claim with EEOC

same shit, different day. as a friend of mine told me, the EEOC mostly supports corporate interests...period.

[arbusto_baboso]

5. What's really sick are those who deny it exists because they are white and have money issues.

As if somehow that equates.

My comeback is always, "Yes, you have some big problems. And they'd be even worse if you weren't white. Don't kid yourself."

[Ikonoklast]

7. You got it.

"Now, after adding all of your problems up, and those are some fairly serious issues that you have, here is a guy that has the exact same set of problems, same as you...except that he's Black."

"Would you change skin color with him, right now, today?"


Let the equivocating commence!

[Taverner]

12. Very true

Tim Wise pointed that out once - that no white person would trade places with a black person

I just don't get people who deny it exists

[Happyhippychick]

14. Actually Chris Rock pointed it out in one of his stand up routines and it made me stop in my tracks.

He asked what white person would trade places with him and not a sound came out of the audience. It was a breathtaking moment.

[arcane1]

27. "And I'm RICH!"

Yep, I remember that routine well.

[aspieextrodinare]

83. I would

Let's see if he likes the discrimination autistics go through every day, I will just bathe in his money until he wants to trade back.

[Art_from_Ark]

85. I have a feeling that most of the people in the audience

who could afford the admission price, are reasonably comfortable already. How many people in a reasonably comfortable situation would trade places with anyone else, even if they could? It's the old Prince-and-the-Pauper, city mouse/country mouse scenario-- you trade places with someone, and you may get something worse than you bargained for.

And then, there's Bugs Bunny trading places with Elmer J. Fudd, millionaire:

[noiretextatique]

17. koppel's nightline experiment on race

i wish i could find the link. it started with ted koppel asking a group of white people about black people. most were of the opinon that black people had some advantage in society that they did not have, e.g., affirmative action. then koppel asked them who much money they would need to "turn black" and take advantage of the perceived perks of blackness. every person said they would need millions of dollars to be black...and why? because of the shit that black people had to deal with. the disconnect, dissonance of whatever you want to call it was stunning. as i recall, koppel replicated a study done by a professor in a classroom, with the exact same results. first...the denial, then the acknowledgement.

here's a link to an intervirew with koppel where he mentions the experiment:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2005/11/25/ted-koppel-racial-inequality-america-just-infuriates-me

[Number23]

65. I remember you mentioning this before!

the disconnect, dissonance of whatever you want to call it was stunning.

Yep. But I've found that when it comes to racism, "disconnects" and "dissonance" are often the order of the day.

[noiretextatique]

68. everyone needs to see that nightline segment

so i am going to find it and post it here...it is very revealing. how are you and the family? how is my baby girl doing?

[Number23]

80. Your baby girl (cyber granddaughter) is doing just fine

Do you know this child will be TWO tomorrow??! TWO!!! I remember when we brought her home from the hospital like it was six months ago!!

How are things with you and your beautiful sweetheart? Are things (cough* autumn wedding plans *cough*) still progressing well?

[hfojvt]

81. I don't think that experiment proves any sort of white privilege

I'm certainly not asserting that there is any particular benefit to being black.

However, there is also no particular benefit to being white.

I would use Bellamy's analogy. From "Looking Backward" page 3

"compare society as it was then to a prodigous coach which the masses of humanity were harnessed to and dragged toilsomely along a very hilly and sandy road. The driver was hunger, and permitted no lagging, though the pace was necessarily very slow. Despite the difficulty of drawing the coach at all along so hard a road, the top was covered with passengers who never got down, even at the steepest ascent. Theses seats were very breezy and comfortable. Well up out of the dust, their occupants could enjoy the scenery at their leisure, or critically discuss the merits of the straining team ..."

Some ride and some pull. It is a privilege to ride. White skin doesn't get you a free ride, unless you won the birth lottery and got a very rich set of parents. Most white people though, did not win that lottery and have to slog and pull just like everybody else.

Of course, life is not so simply divided between just riders and pullers. There are various gradations between jobs. Some are paid well with good benefits and room for advancement, and others not so well. But again, white skin does not help you rise to the top. There are still many, many white people down at the bottom.

See this thread seems to be proclaiming the reverse - that white people have some advantage in society that others do not have, so would a group of black people be eager to "turn white" if they could? A group of females be eager to "turn male" if they could?

[noiretextatique]

86. sure...i would like to earn as much as a white male

with comparable skills and education. i think the experiment shows the disconnect between perception and reality quite well. if you think blacks have an advantage because of years of rw bullshit, but you would need a kazillion dollars to be black, then your perception is askew.

[hfojvt]

88. but this is about white advantage, about male advantage

not about black advantage. Denying that whites have an advantage, does not translate into "blacks have an advantage".

Further, this is not about earning as much as a white male (whatever that means. I have more education than either of the women one and two steps above me. I have much more than the woman who got the last job I applied for. I have more than the woman who beat me when I ran for Congress.) You don't get to be yourself with an imaginary white man's paycheck (my own paycheck with an MA is $1242.70 every two weeks. Last year it was about half of that.) You have to become both white and male. Are you eager to do that?

[Number23]

64. THANK YOU. From the bottom of my heart.

Thank you.

[hfojvt]

82. I tend to think it is sick

for richer people to look down on poorer people.

Nice comeback though, you sure put those ignorant serfs in their place.

[msongs]

15. unless, of course, one is in certain african nations lol nt

[zipplewrath]

16. And class

I am amazed at the number of people who are not aware the "class priviledge" that they have received over their lifetimes. I saw it first person and have always been amazed by those that aren't aware that they very well might not be where they were if their parents weren't already "upper middle class". And those parents were so because of the FORMAL race distinctions that were made when THEY were children.

[bart95]

21. the problem with painting race based advantages with a broad brush

is that the person you're projecting it on may have had their own disadvantages in their backgound, such as losing a parent in a car accident, or to cancer

if people want whites to see others as more than just a member of a skin color group, leading by example never hurts

[noiretextatique]

23. it surprises me that so many white people in america

a country with a long and ugly racial history cannot separate themselves from the history...and current reality. i think it speaks volumes about our educational system, and the successful use of race by the ruling class to divide and conquer. white privilege is a concept that is best understood with the context of a system, not in the context of individuals. for example, george bush, the poster boy for rich, white, male affirmative action, "acheived" what he did because of the family he was born into...one that was white and rich. he id the best example of white privilege imaginable. he is from a class of people who have ruled this country since its inception, and even though he is as dumb as a post, and was woefully unqualified to be president, because of his skin color, money, etc., he was president. he was president because the country has always been headed by white men...it was the norm, and still is in many ways. that truth really should not "offend" anyone, nor does it detract from the life experiences of white people who are not rich. here's another example: do you think i could shoot an unarmed white teenager and not get arrested in florida? i don't, but zimmerman, a white hispanic, can still kill an unarmed black teenager, and get a segment of the country to support his actions. if that's not privilege, i don't know what is.

[Ecumenist]

25. Noir, you would have a better the average chance of NEVER MAKING IT TO THE JAIL ALIVE!

Let's be real here. Arrest would be the least of our concerns. Even if you made it to jail, there's a good chance that you'd "HANG' yourself in your cell. Happens ALOT to black folk who get arrested.

[noiretextatique]

72. sis, you are right. if i was zimmerman

in a black body, i probably would have been killed by the police. "s/he's reaching in her waistband" is now a capital offense...if you are black. here is a story that is close to my heart about my friend Ronnie Settles who was found "hung" in a jail cell.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=6814603

[HiPointDem]

33. I agree that white privilege is best understood in terms of the system. & speaking of the Bushes,

I'll repost something from the other thread on white privilege that I wrote in response to someone who listed some problematic aspects of the concept as it'd often used in practice:


"I'll add another point: This conceptualization of "white privilege" actually disappears its main beneficiaries. (and, I might add, its prime movers).

I don't deny that there's something like "white skin privilege" that applys to white americans generally, as well as something like "black skin disprivilege" that we see in cases like Trayvon Martin's.

But in the place of a more pointed analysis, the idea of "white privilege" offers a narrative of diffuse collective guilt, not necessarily for *doing* anything in particular, but just for being born white. That provides lots of fodder for serious racists and nazis and is in that sense seriously counter-productive. So lets look a little deeper.

Profits from the slave system built the elite universities and financed the industrial revolution and the railroads, generating more profits which continue to finance the expansion of capital in the present day. And the people who profited, and continue to profit from that capital, aren't, by in large, your average working joe. They're today's upper classes. But we're not often encouraged to think about those connections.

Some examples of what I'm talking about:

Brown Brothers (now Brown Brothers Harriman) made bank on slavery -- major cotton broker, financed plantations, owned slaves as tradeable goods. Offices in NY, Baltimore, Liverpool and Philadelphia -- all locations related to the trade in slaves and slave-produced goods. The slave system generated vast wealth for the partners. They invested it and made more money, and their descendants after them, and new partners (like Prescott Bush) that came into that nexus of capital.

Do THESE people accept any guilt, any charge of "white privilege"? Not at all:

Donald Murphy, a partner, says the investment bank has no pre-Civil War records and sees no need to go through its records. "As an institution, I and my partners could look you in the eye and say we abhor that slavery ever existed in this or any other country. And yet I don't feel qualified to comment on practices and actions of a different society of 175 years ago," he says.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/general/2002/02/21/slave-brown-bros.htm

Nothing to do with *him*. All so long ago.


A couple of other random examples (there are many):

The Roosevelts' initial fortune came from the sugar business, back in the days of Dutch NY and colonial times. Slaves in the west indies grew the cane, and slaves in NY (about 20% of NY's population at the time) refined the sugar.

Isaac Roosevelt helped found the Bank of NY with the profits, and that bank undoubtably financed other slave-related ventures. Bank of NY was the first corporate stock traded on the NY stock exchange.

The Bushes benefited from slavery through their ancestors, the Fays. Prescott Bush's grandpa James married Harriet Fay. Her father was a Savannah cotton broker, and so were two of his brothers; the house was Padelford and Fay, circa 1820-1858. It was a US agent for Baring Brothers, which at the time was the second-biggest financial house in the world. The Quaker Barings had made a lot of their money financing -- what else -- the slave trade.

There's even a bit of evidence that the Fays themselves might have had some direct involvement in the slave trade.

For example, the Wanderer was the last known ship to bring slaves to the US. Harriet Fay Bush's uncle Joseph Story Fay acted as agent and guarantor for Charles Lamar (the ship's owner) when the ship was seized -- and the Fays and Lamars had personal and business connections that went back to Charles Lamar's grandfather.

The Fays were originally from Massachusetts. The family got involved in business in Georgia (steamboats and shipping to begin with) at about the same time that their cousin Eli Whitney (Yalie and second cousin of Harriet's great grandpa Jonathan, both born in the same town of under 1000 people) started ginning cotton there.

The cotton gin "boomed" the South, and those who got in on the action early, as usual, did best. The Fays invested their cotton profits in the northern textile industry and railroads, among other things.

James Smith Bush's marriage to Harriet Fay connected the Bushes to national and international business interests, rather than the merely regional ones they'd been associated with up to then. I peg it as the beginning of their rise to real power.

Samuel Prescott Bush was the next generation, associated with railroads, Rockefellers, and Harrimans, chair of the War Industries Board and a board member of the Federal Reserve of Cleveland. Quite a leap for a preacher's son -- all due to his native talent, I'm sure.

Ever hear the Bushes apologizing for their white skin privilege? People like the Bushes have the privilege of never having to apologize for their privilege.

White skin privilege? No, they're the civil rights leaders of our time!


And education outcomes is the distinguishing feature between the haves and have-nots. I would argue that education reform should be the great civil rights challenge of this time.

http://www.theshorthorn.com/index.php/news/university/29772-former-florida-governor-jeb-bush-discusses-educational-reform-and-politics


There's a reality to "white privilege," just as there's a reality to "pointy-headed elites," but the way those concepts are used in popular discourse often has the effect of maintaining the divisions of the slave system."

[noiretextatique]

76. the tulsa and rosewood white riots are also revealing

white people stole the wealth of those communities via racist violence, and never repaid the debts owed to the LIVING descendants of the victims. my family lost land and mineral rights because of racist violence...my grandparents were forced to leave their farm because of threats by the KKK. so, this notion that white people acheived what they have by "hard work" is mostly bullshit. the white plutocrats of america gained their wealth by cheating, lying, and stealing, and by controlling a government that if you are white, cheating, lying and stealing is perfectly okay. it had many monikers: "the white man's burden," "manifest desitny," etc. and as i mentioned before, the backlash against this truth is a testiment to our poor/skewed educational system in our country, and the persistent thread of denial that allowed all the horrors to take place. alll the horrors...the salem witch trials. angel island and imprisonment of japanese americans. the vilification of muslims. the slaughter of indians. the enslavement of africans in america. the indentured servitude of irish/italian/other immigrants. the belieft that americans matter more than any other people on the earth. it is all a part of the same SICK sense of privilege.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Yup

But people here went to the ends to argue there is not when I made that point not too long ago.

It's a real issue.

[Ecumenist]

24. Yes indeed, Nadin. As a black woman, it irks me to end when I have people tell me how well I speak

ENGLISH!! I was born here why wouldn't I but come people act as if it's a shock ans surprise that I speak the language of the land . Do native born whites get the same incredulous comments when it's found that they speak THEIR NATIVE LANGUAGE WELL?? This way of seeing and treating the darker skinned people goes well beyond what most people consider obvious.

My husband ISN'T black and he always tells me how much he's able to see the disparity since being married to me. He was always aware of it BUT being married to "one of them" according to some, has really opened his eyes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. We have done experiments to prove it to the incredolous kind

like go shopping with a friend who happens to be African American. He wears his Sunday best, we wear grunge. Who do you think store security follows? It is actually our favorite way to show people this problem. I mean it is like obvious and shit.

[Ecumenist]

37. Yep. I remember years ago, I was watching some program that was about the way that store

security personnel will A.U.T.O.M.A.T.I.C.A.L.L.Y shadow a black peron. One of the cases on this show was a situation where a "booster" who happened to be white, knew this to be the case. So, he paid some black folks to go into the store, they were followed while this blonde, blue eyed man robbed the store blind. True story. It's a damn shame.

[noiretextatique]

74. katrina headline: white people "found" while black people "looted"

remember that shit?!? is it any wonder that racism makes people crazy?! it is a mental illness, and in its extremes, it has the same affects on the individual, no matter their skin color. racism makes you crazy.

[Marrah_G]

28. The term privlege in this phrase does not mean wealth

It does not mean opportunity.

What it does mean is that if you take a white person and a black person in exactly the same life circumstances, life for the white person is inherently less stressful for the white person. The black person has to deal with ALL the same economic, family and class issues, but but then you have to add in the prejudice they have to deal with on a daily basis.

People get hung up on the word privilege. I know at one time I didn't get it either.

[Union Scribe]

46. Again, do you really not get how dismissive this attitude is?

"Oh, you're white, YOU don't know what real struggle is!" How condescending to say that every white person's life is "less stressful" across the board.

You're putting white allies off to the side, and it's incredibly toxic.

[bart95]

52. you dont understand

the comandment to not judge people by the color of their skin, only applies to whites

[noiretextatique]

79. true allies do not dismiss the struggle of people of color in this country

just as i, a true ally, do not dismiss the the class struggle in this country. both and, not either or. to deny racism and white privilege is akin to denying the reality of the struggles of african, asian, and latino people in america. there is no battle here...there is no competition of tears. to acknowledge white privilege, aka, plutocracy privilege is not the same as denying the struggles of poor and working class white people. on the other hand, it is truly toxic to deny that white privilege does not exist, even if it is not a benefit for many white people. it most certainly is a benefit for some white people, and those who are "offended" by that reality are a part of the problem.

[deacon1949]

31. im white

i dont think im special

[cyberswede]

35. So, do you think there's no white privilege, then?

[OriginalGeek]

36. Well gosh, all the problems are solved then.

Hooray! Go forth and be black, black people!

[Ecumenist]

38. if it were possible, Deacon, would you change places with a black person, as in changing your skin

colour, hair, facial characteristics, etc. and if so, how much money would you demand to make that change?

[TBF]

39. What you personally think about yourself is irrelevant -

we are discussing a societal topic.

[TBF]

41. That poster aside, why are you advocating banning folks when you've only

been here 3 months yourself? Hmm ...

[Union Scribe]

45. No, it isn't.

I love how everyone says "this isn't about YOU" yet posters are EXPLICITLY aiming their posts AT other DUers! Some white poster explains what their experience is, and it's immediately dismissed because they're just "blind" to their "inherent privilege." That's fucking personal, and it's insulting every single time.

[TBF]

49. You're making it personal when it doesn't need to be imo

but I will share that I'm not a white male so perhaps I would take offense as well if I were. Not sure. I'll have to think on that a bit and do appreciate your comment.

[bart95]

55. it's the grenade over the wall tactic

then claiming over-reaction

[Taitertots]

44. Tell it to the millions of victimized white people

Anyone with an internet connection can find hundreds of cases of people from EVERY race being victimized by the corrupt law enforcement/justice system.

Did you even bother to read your articles?
The first guy attacked police with a kitchen knife.
The second person went before a grand jury TODAY!
The third person was breaking the law, got pulled over and there were NO CRIMES committed by the officers.
The fourth person is going before a grand jury on TUESDAY. and he is Hispanic.
The fifth article is about how Arpaio is being investigated and may faces charges if he doesn't reform his department.
The last one is about firing and disciplinary hearings against a police officer accused of racial profiling.

All your examples demonstrate that White Privilege doesn't exist.

[Taverner]

51. Ahhh so white people are the real victims...

Got it

[Taitertots]

61. None of your examples show white privilege

If anything your examples show that white privilege doesn't exist because all the people who broke the law are in the process of being brought to justice.

People of all races are abused by the police and denied justice. The police and the justice system are out of control, there is not a huge racist conspiracy.

[noiretextatique]

67. no, there is not a racist conspriracy...just business as usual

and the fact that more white people are being victimized is a direct result of centuries of tolerating the victimization of people of color as normal. unlike germany and south africa, america has never confronted and acknowlegded its history, but rather used its history to distort and manipulate a segment of society, namely working class, religious, mostly white males. and females, until recent the recent republicon war on women.

[REP]

50. That person won't reply - too busy looking for a bar to smoke in

while crying in a beer because someone used "cracker" on a message board.

[bart95]

54. has anyone ever read 'The Other Foot', by Ray Bradbury?

it's a short story, about deciding what's really important to you - peace and harmony, or revenge

much of the current generation of whites, are not the people who DID it, they're the people who helped CHANGE it. People who arent necessarely looking for a 'thank you', but might be weary about yet another apology, as previous ones seem not to be acknowledged

from wikipedia:

""The Other Foot" — Mars has been colonized solely by black people. When they learn that a rocket is coming from Earth with white travelers, they institute a Jim Crow system of racial segregation in which white people are to be considered second-class citizens, in retaliation for the history of wrongs perpetrated on their race by white people. When the rocket lands, the traveler tells them that most of the Earth has been destroyed in a nuclear war, and asks for their help. The people realize that discrimination is harmful in all its forms, and reverse their planned segregation."

[opiate69]

62. Cenk and Tim Wise nailed this a couple years ago..

&feature=plcp&context=C47c40ecVDvjVQa1PpcFPa90Qx73V4N0wwDMB5j-VGZphrDoodcNA%3D

[Taverner]

66. [phone]

[DLevine]

71. Wow. So true.

But there are some who will never get it. I'm white, by the way.

[Autumn]

63. Anyone who says there is no such thing as white privlege

is a privileged white person.

[aspieextrodinare]

84. Or a white autistic

Who just happens to notice that I can't see an article about George Hodgins anywhere.

[hfojvt]

73. loks like a bunch of links

As the first is very well known. I am supposed to believe it is a "privilege" to not get shot by the cops? Or that every black person alive will eventually get shot by the cops when they accidentally dial 911 and then refuse to open the door?

The "absence of police harrassment" is only a "privilege" if you believe that everybody should be harrassed by the police.

Is that what you believe?

[Taverner]

75. I'm sorry - I am not going to engage with the "Poor Whiteys" out there

There's no point, really

Either you see it, or you live in delusion

[MrScorpio]

77. And it's much more pervasive than this...

Quite simply, and this is from an essay posted by Will Pitt:

My schooling gave me no training in seeing myself as an oppressor, as an unfairly advantaged person, or as a participant in a damaged culture. I was taught to see myself as an individual whose moral state depended on her individual moral will. My schooling followed the pattern my colleague Elizabeth Minnich has pointed out: whites are taught to think of their lives as morally neutral, normative, and average, and also ideal, so that when we work to benefit others, this is seen as work that will allow them to be more like us.

http://ted.coe.wayne.edu/ele3600/mcintosh.html

If we're going to live is a society where everyone is considered equal, then we can't insist that those who do not live up to the idealized design as people who are somewhat inferior.

Yes, we can all express dismay at outright acts of discrimination against minorities, women, non-heterosexuals… But those who are in positions of privilege need to understand is how that privilege is responsible for inflicting oppression on those who will never be like themselves.

The hardest thing for privileged people to understand is the fact that they are privileged. They are taught to ignore it. I describe it as sort of like a Matrix that pulls the wool over your eyes to make you think, as that privileged person, that you are the standard, the ideal that everyone else is forced to try to live up to.

[noiretextatique]

78. i call this "hegemony as a natural state"

but it is in fact a false hegemony and there is nothing "natural" about it.

[slackmaster]

89. Tagged for later. I must be off to play croquet and drink champagne with my rich friends.

I'm supplying the fresh oysters and caviar this year.

[Puglover]

90. I think that all of the folks who deny that white privilige exists

should watch this video. Jane Elliott is IMHO a hero for what she does.

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