I Cannot Believe I Just Saw A Discussion Here Regarding The Downtrodden White Male...

[WillyT]

at least that's how it looked...



ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME ???

Let's do a little thought experiment shall we???

If you, as a white male, could push a magic button and instantly, yet irreversibly, become black, latino, asian, and or a female.... because of all the inherent advantages that being a woman and a minority hold...

WOULD YOU PUSH THAT BUTTON ???

You know, and I know, that you would not... and I know because I'm a White Male.

BTW - There is only one race, the human race... I invite all to join.

[arbusto_baboso]

1. This white male agrees with you completely.

Sure, I haven't done anything myself to those of other races. But failing to acknowledge that I have a bit of a leg up just by being white DOES perpetuate situation. And that WOULD be causing harm to those of other ethnicities.

[chervilant]

26. White,

AND male.

[arbusto_baboso]

27. Yes. That too.

Thanks for the reminder. I sometimes forget that being male in the US is also a huge advantage.

[chervilant]

37. Being male

anywhere on this planet is a huge advantage.

The power imbalance inherent in the social construct we've labeled 'patriarchy' is damaging to our entire species. How can we expect a 'dominant' gender to respect a 'submissive' gender, when 'power over' is glorified--and women are considered less than because we have a 'v' instead of a 'p.'

Some great resources for any who wish to change this oppressive socio-cultural reality:

The Mermaid and the Minotaur: Sexual Arrangements and Human Malaise by Dorothy Dinnerstein.

Beyond Power: On Women, Men and Morals by Marilyn French.

The War Against Women by Marilyn French.

[redqueen]

45. +1

[Tom1960]

48. same here....

white, male and southern...the trifecta of advantage

[Art_from_Ark]

84. Being "white, male and southern" gave me no special privilege while I lived in the South

or anywhere else in the US where I went looking for a job, for that matter.

[klook]

102. It only seems that way -- because, like me, you carry

your invisible knapsack with you everywhere you go.

[Art_from_Ark]

103. I don't have an "invisible knapsack" here in Japan--

Or maybe I do, but in a different way. The fact is, I stand out like a sore thumb because everyone automatically knows that I am not Japanese. Virtually none of those 50 points in your link apply to me here.

[klook]

110. Whoa, bait and switch

Your post referred to how you've been treated in Arkansas and elsewhere in the U.S., not in Japan.

[Art_from_Ark]

112. Not bait and switch

I just had to include that bit to let you know that I know what it's like to be a minority.

At any rate, I don't think I had any special doors opened to me because of my race or gender while I lived in the US. I only had one job that ever paid more than a buck above minimum wage-- most of the others were Grade A shit jobs. And I went all over the place looking for jobs-- St. Louis, Kansas City, Little Rock, New Orleans, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Phoenix, DC, applying and interviewing for both private sector and public sector jobs, and not even a nibble.

As for non-employment areas, I guess my race might have helped when I was on a bicycle tour of Louisiana. I had just gotten off the St. Martinsville ferry and was traveling on a dirt road when some white kid, maybe 13 years old, just came out of nowhere and aimed a rifle at me. If I had been black, it might have ended up pretty bad. As it was, I somehow got past him, but he was giving me the evil eye the whole time.

[Fawke Em]

55. It's a huge advantage EVERYWHERE.

In the US, you're paid better.

In Saudi Arabia, you can drive, own property, work after marriage, don't have to cover yourself head to toe in all that heat.

In Afghanistan, you can go to school (and see the above RE: Saudi).

In the entire world, your body isn't used to sell products, your body isn't used against your self esteem, your body isn't subjected to governmental intrusion by a bunch of people of the opposite gender (and some of your own).

I'm not saying that minorities don't have it as bad, but black men got the vote in the country before a woman of any color.

[HiPointDem]

74. Black women are more likely to be employed than black men. They're nearly twice as likely

as black men to have any kind of degree, from AA to PhD, and the discrepancy has increased over time.

[Tsiyu]

77. And they face the sorrowful and lonely fact

that many of their male same-aged peers are imprisoned by a racially biased justice system.


Two proofs from your post:

1) A statement: Women can and do excel in the academic world (and all women should be encouraged to do so.)

2) A question: Rather than presenting this chart as evidence that race and/or gender privilege is woo-woo (it fails, by the way, for a number of reasons) why not ask why more black males are not attending and graduating from college?

I always ask that question when someone trots out the "chart."

I've yet to get an answer I can believe.....

[HiPointDem]

79. I didn't say that race and gender privilege was "woo-woo," and I'm not sure how you took

that from what I wrote.

I'm fully aware of the disproportionate jailing of black men on low level charges, and the political reasons for it, and the omnipresent scapegoating of black men, and the decreasing percent of black men attending college and all the rest of it. I am the rare person who considers a large proportion of black prisoners to be political prisoners.

I posted the chart because the poster stated that men always had it better than women. The data on black male unemployment and college degrees v. black women was offered as evidence against such facile generalizations.

I personally believe that black men are the most scapegoated and targeted group in the US. I also believe that much of the national conversation on race (and gender) in America is organized around constructs that have ruling class origins. Like a lot of the "critical theory" coming out of elite universities. And I think some of them have pernicious aspects.

[lumberjack_jeff]

86. +1 n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

85. "why not ask why more black males are not attending and graduating from college?"

Because they're men. Coincidentally, the same reason they're in jail.

[Fawke Em]

96. You're missing it...

It's not because they're male.

It's because they're BLACK and MALE.

[Tsiyu]

108. Thank you

From what I have seen, living in the South, most White Southerners would rather incarcerate, imprison, and disenfranchise black males than educate them.

It's the same thing with poor Appalachian males. Whenever I say "we need college classes on the Mountain for these kids," they say, "But what about that fancy university the Episcopalians own up there?"

Then I roll on the floor laughing. Because that university's police force incarcerates and makes felons out of every poor mountain kid it possibly can.

Educate them?

Ha! It's far more fun for the rich folk to send these kids to the fancy jail. Who wants to EDUCATE them?

"They're all just inbreds, thieves and druggies" is THE most common remark the Sewanee citizen and student will make toward his poor Appalachian neighbors.

Dehumanize people - whether due to their color or their socioeconomic status - and you don't have to worry about whether or not they get an education.

[lumberjack_jeff]

114. Men are 11x more likely to be in jail than women.

Blacks are 6x more to be in jail as whites.

Black men in jail are mostly there because they're men.

[Stuckinthebush]

126. and poor

The intersection of race, gender and SES in this instance is defining for a subgroup of the US population.

[lumberjack_jeff]

58. It's easy to forget if one can't point to a single manifestation of it.

You'll die sooner with less education and less wealth.

Some privilege.

[arbusto_baboso]

63. I DON'T have "less wealth" probably because I don't have "less education"

Nice try, though.

[lumberjack_jeff]

65. Statistically, you do. n/t

[arbusto_baboso]

66. But is that insitutional? NO. Emphatically, no.

It's for a number of reasons that you probably haven't even considered.

If you get less education than a woman of your socioeconomic group, that's no one's fault but your own. Scholarships rarely slant more toward swomen than men.

And ignoring health issues generally leads to ealier death, too. That's typically a "guy thing" to do.

[lumberjack_jeff]

69. LOL, Wut?

Let's see... scholarships for men = 18,000 hits. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=scholarships+for+men
Scholarships for women = 89,000 hits. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=scholarships+for+women

There's a department of education program dedicated to the purpose of increasing the disproportionate number of women in college. http://www2.ed.gov/programs/equity/index.html

Laws which promote one gender over another are the definition of institutional sexism.

[Fawke Em]

98. Then men need to stop it.

I like Gen. Butler and lumberjacks are cool (I need one, btw) and, damnit, despite it all, I like strong men. What I don't like is men who think they're getting the short end of the stick when they still have more than half the stick.

[JAbuchan08]

115. Just speaking anecdotally, but...

I'm returning to school to complete my undergraduate degree (I had to drop out over financial considerations ten years ago and am finally making it back) In every single one of my classes so far at least 70% of the students have been female. It may be true that men hold a financial advantage over women, but I think it's worth encouraging specific programs to engage and educate men.

I believe in the advancement of ALL people. I believe in gender equality and I believe in racial equality. I am also not so naive as to think that women have an advantage over men or that minorities have it better than whites. Having ( I hope) covered my ass with those qualifiers this is the major problem I see with identity politics: there is obviously a problem with male college enrollment, but no one wants to deal with it, ostensibly because men are still advantaged in this society, but the fact that men are generally advantaged in our society shouldn't be an excuse to ignore those areas in which men are disadvantaged - such as in education, or family court or any other area where gender biases unfairly effect men.

Just to be clear: NOT to the exclusion of fixing the areas where gender biases affect women negatively.

I focused mostly on gender, but the general rule applies to racial politics as well; however the disparities between minorities and white males are much more severe in most areas so there aren't really any places where whites are falling behind minorities and need affirmative action to balance that.

However I would caution that, while I know that white people and white men in particular have tremendous advantages in this society; that sometimes the discussion of those advantages seems to extend those generalizations to ALL white people and can trend toward villainization even if that is not what is intended.

[lumberjack_jeff]

124. "I am also not so naive as to think that women have an advantage over men"

70% women in your college? Who are you going to believe about advantage? DU or your lying eyes?

[JAbuchan08]

130. I meant generally speaking

College is a kind of limited environment, and it might have something to do with the type of classes I am taking and the college I am attending.

[cthulu2016]

2. Try this in help and meta. Thanks.

[Taverner]

3. Yep - I don't understand it either

[teddy51]

4. "BTW - There is only one race, the human race... I invite all to join." And I certainly

wish that the racists would pay attention to that fact.

[Obamacare]

6. Oh, but you know they won't.

They love the advantages of white priviledge too much. Good luck on any of them seeing the light, majority are probably rethugs anyway.

[freshwest]

28. They profit from polarizing everyone, so no, they won't stop.

If they believed in equality or any of the Constitution or whatever documents they claim to swear allegiance to, they would not promote poverty the way they do.

[EFerrari]

5. Even so, discussions of race and racism on DU

have progressed light years, imho, from where they were ca. 2004 or so. So even if at times it gets irritating or over the top off base, whatever we're doing is working because it's better today.

[HiPointDem]

80. how have they progressed? serious question.

[EFerrari]

91. In the going on 8 years I've been here

I can honestly say that these conversations have become more informed and more thoughtful every year.

That isn't to say that individuals lag. But as a community, DU has become much more willing to confront racism where before there was a lot of denial and a "no talk" rule out of shame or something like that.

Once you confront a situation, then you can look at all of its pieces. DU did that.

These discussions don't get shut down as they used to be. They are broached by all kinds of posters. The right wing talking points are called out. There is no one clique or sub-group pushing these issues. The community as a whole values them.

If I were asked to praise DU for one achievement in the last eight years since becoming a reader, I'd praise it for attending more closely to the very uncomfortable fact of racism in America and for mustering its collective compassion and attention.

That's pretty good for a group of strangers on the intertubes and I respect that.

[HiPointDem]

92. Thanks!

[dkf]

7. There are things unfair about being in any category.

To me it's fine that people explain to others what their own circumstances are.

I don't think it's fair that Asians need higher scores and grades than the other races to get into a good college. Some might think that is perfectly fine in that it serves to keep colleges closer to demographics. But tell that to the Asian kid who must now do so much more to be the elite of the elite.

Measures taken to keep numbers close to demographics obviously give greater demands and leniency to certain groups and on the face of it that is not right. But there is a larger societal goal beyond fairness to individuals.

[libinnyandia]

8. What is so sad is that so many of those racists consider themselve to be religious. Somehow God

created them to be superior to women and those of other races.

[The Traveler]

9. Not the first time I have heard of that thought experiment

but we need to hear it more and more often. It's a nice "operational test", and everyone knows what the honest answer is.

Well said, WillyT.

I wonder how many of the people who most need to consider your point won't have any idea of what you mean by "thought experiment"?

[hfojvt]

94. Is it really?

Try asking it the other way. Let's ask all the black people, women, latinos, etc. If there was a button they could push that would instantly and irreversibly turn them into a white male - would they push it?

I am guessing that no matter how oppressed most people feel that their group is - they like who (and what) they are and would not jump at a chance to change groups.

[malthaussen]

121. Reminds me of the Doonesbury comic 40 yrs ago

Doones asks Rufus, if he had the chance to be another race instead of a poor black ghetto kid, which would he choose? After mulling it over, and discarding all other races, he replies "It's a stupid question, Mike!"

In a follow-up, he says he sure wouldn't want to be white. "Because I'd have to put up with all them uppity black folk."

But then, G. Trudeau is a white male, after all.

-- Mal

[uponit7771]

10. LOFL!!!

[philly_bob]

11. I have a theory as to why this happens...

Suppose you have no way of knowing about society except by watching mass media.

Then suppose you count the number of times that news programs mention the struggle for improvement in groups you mention (black, latino, asian, female).

In terms of mentions, there are far more mentions of attaining improvement for those groups than of attaining improvement for white males.

Thus, your cloistered white male concludes, as a grade school buddy of mine recently told me, "They're giving it all to the blacks and women."

This only works if you're completely isolated from the reality of society and the street, where white male privilege is pervasive and enduring. I call it basement-dweller angst.

[EFerrari]

12. That's a very powerful point. n/t

[uponit7771]

15. Your theory is VERY close to what I understand the way people think about MANY subjects...

...we are really conditioned by our environment and from what we hear frequently despite the facts.

...my people are destroyed from a lack of knowledge...

[HiPointDem]

81. Except most of the people who think minorities get an unfair advantage don't live in their

parents' basements. They go to work and participate in community life much like other people do.

[fascisthunter]

13. I Believe It... I'm a white Male... there are tons of ignorant people out there

and unfortunately, they lack the brain capacity to imagine being in someone else's shoes... a black person's shoes. They can't even IMAGINE something like that, because they lived in a fucking white pride purity bubble!

[zappaman]

14. I would push the button and become a woman

I would want to be called Loretta.

[WillyT]

16. Don't Be Bringing Humor Into This...

Stan: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.

Reg: But you can't have babies.

Stan: Don't you oppress me.

Reg: Where's the fetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?

Judith: <on Stan's desire to be a mother> Here! I've got an idea: Suppose you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb - which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans' - but that he can have the *right* to have babies.

Francis: Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to have babies, brother... sister, sorry.

Reg: What's the *point*?

Francis: What?

Reg: What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies, when he can't have babies?

Francis: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.

Reg: It's symbolic of his struggle against reality.

[freshwest]

29. That was beautiful, anyway.

[Skittles]

30. SCHEDULING ZAPPAMAN FOR ASSKICKING

[jtuck004]

36. ^coffee alert^ (There oughta be a menu button for this) n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

99. I heard that Stan posts on DU.

Under an assortment of names.

[Sparkly]

109. Ha!!!

[JAbuchan08]

117. I have always wondered

what "it" feels like from a woman's perspective. TMI? than I apologize

[marshall gaines]

17. ptb

as long as we races are at each others throats the ptb are having a field day

[freshwest]

31. Agreed. I don't believe TPTB are racist. That's for fools who can't see beyond skin color.

Or sex or language or religion or lack of one, or any number of differences, and it's working because we are slaves to our egos. Or something.

[kramerv]

18. What would you do?

Though being very conservative I'll freely admit that minorities don't "have it made." I just don't agree with the means used to level the playing field. What's the solution though? And I'm being sincere, not trying to incite a riot in the thread.

[cosmicone]

19. What are the means used that you protest?

The means are woefully inadequate as it is.

Enjoy your stay on DU, however long it lasts!

[uponit7771]

23. I would do what has been proven to work; STOP the offense, make the person(s) whole...

...in the united states the GOP PROMOTES the mindset (at least) of the office by having racist policies like the "Southern Strategy"

P.S. Thank you for frank discussion, conservatives rarely stay and talk.

[RainDog]

24. What means do you think should be used to address racism and sexism, etc?

Personally, I think democratic socialism is the answer to this nation's issues on many fronts. This form of mixed economy benefits the middle class and the poor, as well.

But making college available to all who are willing to work for it, making health care available no matter who one's parents may be, creating a basic level of social safety to be able to make the leap to entrepreneur, no matter if one's family is rich - those are things that benefit all people - except, of course, the very, very rich who don't need the help anyway.

I think that sexism and racism would be less pervasive if we had better economic policies for all.

[MineralMan]

71. What means might that be? You can provide as much

detail as you can muster. If you're being sincere, you'll post a list of those means.

[raccoon]

21. Could someone give me a link? nt

[noamnety]

25. There's a whole forum for it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1114

[chrisa]

32. lmao Nice

[lumberjack_jeff]

22. Yes.

[chrisa]

34. That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

It's almost a comical post, lol. No offense.

Women's body chemistry is different, which, according to Time magazine, might delay certain things that kill men off, like heart disease, for example. Men are also more likely to smoke. There's a couple other reasons. None of them have anything to do with White Male Privilege. Basically, enormous Red Herring alert.

You did prove the point of the OP in your graph, though. White people have a longer life expectancy than Black people - probably because of white privilege.

[lumberjack_jeff]

57. Funny how this works.

a) White people live longer than black people. This proves white privilege.

b) Women live longer than men, and in fact, black women live longer than white men, which demonstrates... uh, that's just the way it is.

The straight question the OP asked is if I'd rather be a woman. I'm perfectly happy being a guy, but tacking on an additional 20% to my life? Hell yeah. Produce the button forthwith.

[chrisa]

61. It's different - the reason for the disparity between white and black average lifespan is because

black people are still disadvantaged. Women, on the other hand, live longer because of a combo of body chemistry and choices they make.

See this article:

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1827162,00.html

[lumberjack_jeff]

64. If lifespans were dicated by biology, then there'd be a ceiling.

Instead, each decade all lifespans in the developed world increase - for men and women.

Yet the 5-7 year differential persists. What once was a normal woman's lifespan is now the man's life expectancy.

That differential is partly due to the fact that men are 4x more likely to be murdered, 5x more likely to commit suicide, and 13x more likely to die on the job, and have 50% less spent on our medical care. Those are among the privileges we apparently enjoy.

[chrisa]

67. Biology is not the only factor

And in fact, with science, we can begin to understand more about why men die earlier.

However, men are not an oppressed group. They are 5X more likely to commit suicide because the methods they use for suicide are much more likely to be lethal. They are 4X more likely to be murdered because it's often man-on-man violence (through fights, rivalries, etc.). Men are 13X more likely to die on the job because they take more dangerous jobs. Women also require different kinds of healthcare than men - many of them sometimes extremely expensive.

White men are still the overwhelmingly privileged group. They have higher pay, have an extremely small chance of getting raped, get better more powerful jobs, and - actually I wouldn't even be able to fit the advantages of being both male and white on this page.

[lumberjack_jeff]

70. You ran out of stereotypes to regurgitate after three?

Men are more likely to be the victims of violent crime, they are much more likely to be unemployed and aren't paid any more for the same work.

[chrisa]

72. "aren't paid any more for the same work"

Key word being "the same work," considering men can still get into positions that women can't. Men are much more likely to be in powerful positions.

See this wikipedia article. Particularly find the section, "Explaining the gender pay gap." Some of the disparity between male and female pay is because of gender stereotypes, and just because they can.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States

What I listed aren't stereotypes. Everything except for the explanation of the murder rate is a proven fact (for the murder rate, I'm guessing that's the case - when was the last time you saw a woman beat a man down, stab him, or shoot him? It happens, but nowhere near as much). Men are more likely to use lethal approaches to suicide. Men take dangerous jobs like fire-fighting, police work, factory work, construction, etc.).

Article on male vs. female suicide rates:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/11/981112075159.htm

[HiPointDem]

87. So women's use of attempted suicide v. actual suicide is more an attempt to manipulate others?

"An attempted suicide is not really an attempt at suicide in about 95 percent of cases. It is a different phenomenon. It's most often an effort to bring someone's attention, dramatically, to a problem that the individual feels needs to be solved...."


I don't see why you think the article supports your POV.

[chrisa]

113. When men commit suicide, they are statistically more likely to try more lethal approaches

Like hanging or shooting. The attempted suicide rate for women is double that of men, but more men actually kill themselves.

"Manipulate others?" Where'd you get that? I think it's more of a cry for help. They don't really want to die - they just want help. Men and women both do this, but women are more likely to take a non-lethal approach (as opposed to really wanting to die).

[HiPointDem]

128. Men use "more lethal methods" because they really want to kill themselves. They've given up

hope that anyone will help them, or that their condition is amenable to help.

If you use non-lethal methods as a "cry for help" *you're not trying to kill yourself.* You're trying to get other people to help you in a damaging and manipulative way, by my lights. I say that having been close to people who used repeated suicide attempts in this way. Damaging to all involved and highly manipulative, even if the person doing it isn't consciously aware of it.

Men kill themselves -- not ATTEMPT, but really kill themselves -- more often (by a wide margin) than women. Which suggests a greater level of despair overall.

[hfojvt]

95. everything you list there is an AVERAGE.

So the average pay of white men is higher than the average pay of other groups. A higher average does not do very much for all the white men who are below average in pay - does it?

Take the census of wealth from 2002. There's 9.6% of whites with more than $500,000 in wealth, compared to only 1.2% of blacks with that much wealth. Meanwhile, a whopping 48.4% of blacks have less than $5,000 in wealth. Doubtless the average is higher for whites than it is for blacks. However, since whites don't really live collectively, that higher average does not confer a single benefit on the 22.7% of whites who have less than $5,000 in wealth. They are not more privileged than the 12.9% of blacks with more than $100,000 in wealth.

And again, I do not understand how somebody can define "not getting raped" as a privilege. I guess I better give that privilege up and go out and try to get raped so I won't have some sort of unfair advantage.

[chrisa]

111. That doesn't make any sense.

Measure by only people who are the best off and forget averages?

Take the census of wealth from 2002. There's 9.6% of whites with more than $500,000 in wealth, compared to only 1.2% of blacks with that much wealth. Meanwhile, a whopping 48.4% of blacks have less than $5,000 in wealth.

Yes. That's actually an argument in my favor, isn't it? 48.4% of blacks have less than $5,000 wealth, vs. how many whites who have less than $5000 wealth? That's white privilege there.

However, since whites don't really live collectively, that higher average does not confer a single benefit on the 22.7% of whites who have less than $5,000 in wealth. They are not more privileged than the 12.9% of blacks with more than $100,000 in wealth.

That doesn't make any sense. The averages prove that, overall, white people have white privilege over black people. It doesn't matter that there's a rich black guy somewhere vs. a poor white guy - What matters is the mean income, among other things, which are tilted heavily in white peoples' favor. There are also social factors that, despite how much money someone that is a minority has, they are still discriminated against.

And again, I do not understand how somebody can define "not getting raped" as a privilege. I guess I better give that privilege up and go out and try to get raped so I won't have some sort of unfair advantage.

I wish I didn't have to list it as a male privilege either, but in our society, it is. Women have to actually plan their lives around not getting raped. Men don't have that concern in their lives. You've got it all wrong - there's no way to fix this privilege because women will always be raped. You just have to recognize that it is an example of something that men don't have to worry about in life, and women do - therefore a privilege.

[hfojvt]

118. except that you are talking, right now, to just ONE white guy

Again, a higher average does not confer any benefit to people who are below average. The 22.7% of whites who have less than $5,000 in wealth are simply NOT privileged just because some OTHER whites are much richer. You cannot talk about an average as an over ALL, because an average does not apply to all. Take, for example, 3 white guys. Me, my brother and Bill Gates. Our average wealth is about $15 billion, but it does not make sense to say, that, overall, we are wealthy.

Or, suppose the average male is 6' 4" and suppose that a 6'4" guy can dunk a basketball. You cannot therefore say that all males can dunk a basketball just because the average male can, because some shorter than average guys are not gonna have that privilege.

What does not make sense is to speak as though an average confers a benefit upon all.

It also does not make sense to call an "absence of a disadvantage" as a privilege. Like if somebody punched me in the face every day, or if I had to worry about somebody punching me in the face every day, that other people, who are not getting punched in the face, have a privilege. A privilege is more like somebody giving me a $10 bill every day. Now that is a consumation to be devoutly desired.

Further, I highly doubt whether most women spend any more time worrying about being raped then men do worrying about being mugged or assaulted.

[Dokkie]

100. +1000

And here is another evidence of the so called male(white) privilege.

[robbob]

35. No fair!!!

The "Black Male" life expectancy data is skewed by all the young black men killed by white police officers and self-appointed "neighborhood watch-ers"!!!


...do I have to add the thing-y?

[Jamaal510]

33. Does Willard Romney qualify as part of the human race?

After all, some say he's a robot.

[greiner3]

38. A great movie on this subject;

'The Watermelon Man,' starring Godfrey Cambridge. The plot; the movie begins with Godfrey as an upper middle class white guy who enjoys many of the perks that go with the above mentioned adjectives.

One day he wakes up and he is black. One by one he loses everything; job, marriage, stature, etc... The movie ends with Godfrey accepting his new 'status' and finds him becoming friends with other blacks who he taunted and harassed.

I highly recommend this humorous and timely movie.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066550/

[Spazito]

41. I would also recommend the movie "Black Like Me", a classic...

made in 1964, based on the book written by John Howard Griffin and is a true story. Even though it was in 1964, many of the incidents shown are still occurring to one degree or another.

Link to info in a NYT movie review written in 1964:

http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9a0ce5dd1f3ae13abc4951dfb366838f679ede

[Kaleva]

39. I'd select "Native American"

I'm a 53 year old white male on full disability. I'm quite content with what I have and I get by on the $1071.00 a month I receive and being on medicare. However, if I had a magic button, I wouldn't hesitate to push that button to irreversibly become a Native American.

I could hunt and fish year round regardless of the season and the share of the money I'd get from the casino profits would certainly raise my standard of living.

[JoeyT]

44. Yeah, because we all get shares of casino profits.

We also don't get to hunt year round, or at least this is the first I've heard of it. It might be based on what state you're in.

Statistically you'd most likely be selecting crushing poverty and wishing for a reversal button.

Or I'm just really bad at detecting sarcasm.

[Kaleva]

49. I think it shows that it's not so clear cut.

It's relatively easy to paint with a broad brush.

I'm sure there are quite a few minorities that wouldn't hesitate to be in my place. Others may think of it as a wash and say "Why bother?". And the rest would think of it as a downgrade and wouldn't even consider it.

Edit: the year round hunting and fishing rights the members of the tribe have here are because of a treaty signed in the 1830 to 1840 time period. For a very long time, Michigan didn't honor those rights until the tribes won their case in Federal court.

[jtuck004]

50. That's a fairly popular racist meme used by white people in that post, the whole "get to

play all day long financed by checks from the casino, oil, etc", to indicate their revulsion and disrespect of the Native Nations residents. You may not hear it as much as I do, but living near a Whitopia and in the middle of several tribal areas kinda ups the noise level on some subjects. It gets a lot less blowback than calling someone a welfare queen, (maybe because it uses more words?) but it is no less destructive to many.

Not saying YOU are, and not calling you out, 'cause I think you just threw it in as an example, right? - not really what you think about most of the Native folk? - but that post deserves to be addressed and not juried into oblivion.

As a previous poster pointed out one would be more likely than not to instantly find your living conditions worsened, maybe winding up as prey for some white person, and almost certainly mired in alchoholism.

Gotta be careful what we wish for...

[Kaleva]

54. Well, I assumed I'd still be disabled and the same age and sex.

And I still lived where I did, thus I'd be a member of one of two tribes nearby. I didn't know that I'd become, without a doubt, an alcoholic member of a very poor tribe and thus live in crushing poverty. That'd be like saying every minority who elects to become white will be a well connected, upper class white guy. The OP just said the ethnicity would change. No mention of any change of location, sex, addictions, overall health, or age.

There's blow back where I live too. People complain about the Indians (nobody where I live, even the Indians, use the term "Native American" and I only so here 'cause it seems to be more accepted). Especially about their hunting and fishing rights. That doesn't bother me (I'm referring to the rights). It doesn't make my own life any better or worse. In high school, several of my friends were Indian. And there were quite a few Indians I wasn't friends with just as there were many whites I wasn't friends with either.

[jtuck004]

56. If one is unaware of people's conditions perhaps they should get out more. n/t

[Kaleva]

73. I'm well aware of the conditions around here

That's why I said I wouldn't hesitate to push a magic button to change my ethnicity to Native American.

[sudopod]

76. Because they're all the same 'ethnicity', right?

I mean, it isn't as if we're talking about a whole continent of different cultures or something.

[SpankMe]

40. Where's the gay button? I want to be gay! n/t

[kudzu22]

42. Can I make myself sexier at the same time?

[GOTV]

43. Chris Rock made a similar observation

He made some claim at a show about that where he said something like: "there's not a single white guy in the room here that would change places with me - and I'm rich! That's how good it is to be white!"

[Incitatus]

93. I recall that show.

His quote was more like "There's a white one armed bus boy somewhere in this audience that won't chance places with me"

[smokey nj]

104. Here's Louis CK's take on white privilege:

&feature=fvsr

[JAbuchan08]

119. At the time I first saw that I was living in a trailer park making min wage

and I thought it was BS. I mean I could never know for certain I suppose unless it happened, but I think that might be an exaggeration.

[edbermac]

46. Why should I change? Nobody discriminates against white people.

[sudopod]

75. Irish weren't considered proper white people back then. If you didn't come in the first wave of

immigration, you weren't shit.

Just goes to show how silly the whole idea of race is, anyway. It's a relatively modern invention.

[Marrah_G]

105. That was quite a white ago

I see your Pats logo and I'm posting from Foxboro

I think you would have agree that the Irish in Massachusetts are no longer anywhere close to being an oppressed group of people.

[CAPHAVOC]

47. This election is to decide whose fault it was we hit the Iceberg.

[Nye Bevan]

51. Is there a button to become A-Rod? Or Halle Berry? (nt)

[just1voice]

52. I could push a button and grow big boobies? Weeeeeeeeeeeee!

You can keep most of the human race, human interaction is highly over-rated.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

53. Y'all don't know what it's like to be male, middle class, and white

A soundtrack for the thread, from Ben Folds Five. If you're not familiar with the tune, it's a self-depricating, satirical song about the "pain" of being white.

Let me tell y'all what it's like
Being male, middle class and white
It's a bitch, if you don't believe
Listen up to my new cd
Sham on

I got shit running through my brain
So intense that I can't explain
All alone in my white boy pain
Shake your booty while the band complains

I'm rocking the suburbs
Just like michael jackson did
I'm rocking the suburbs
Except that he was talented
I'm rocking the suburbs
I take the checks and face the facts
That some producer with computers
Fixes all my shitty tracks

I'm pissed off but I'm too polite
When people break in the mcdonalds line
Mom and dad you made me so uptight
I'm gonna cuss on the mic tonight
I don't know how much I can take
Girl give me something I can break
I'm rocking the suburbs
Just like quiet riot did
I'm rocking the suburbs
Except that they were talented
I'm rocking the suburbs
I take the checks and face the facts
That some producer with computers
Fixes all my shitty tracks

In a haze these days
I pull up to the stoplight
I can feel that something's not right
I can feel that someone's blasting me
With hate and bass
Sending dirty vibes my way
Cause my great great great great grandad
Made someone's great great great great grandaddy slaves
It wasn't my idea
It wasn't my idea
It never was my idea
I just drove to the store
For some preparation h

Ya'll don't know what it's like
Being male, middle class and white
It gets me real pissed off and it makes me wanna say
Fuck

Just like jon bon jovi did
I'm rocking the suburbs
Except that he was talented
I'm rocking the suburbs
I take the checks and face the facts
That some producer with computers
Fixes all my shitty tracks these days
I'm rocking the suburbs
You'd better look out because I'm gonna say fuck

[JAbuchan08]

120. See that's the problem right there

So many people think that "white"is essentially synonymous with "middle class" or otherwise financially advantaged. I've dealt with that my whole life. I suspect minorities get more shit talked behind their back, but it's amazing when you hear privileged middle/upper middle class people say incredibly classist things straight to your face because you don't embody any of the class "markers" that they expect of lower class whites.

Again I'm not saying I'm disadvantaged compared to an average minority, but black and white is not always so, err... black and white, there's also brown, :

[eridani]

59. When you bring the "c" word into it--

--I mean "Class," most white males are not among the economically privileged. That, of course, does not alter the comparative advantages within classes that they get by virtue of their race and sex.

[jp11]

60. You are correct there are ZERO white men who would rather inhabit the body of a woman.

[HiPointDem]

88. Sex-change data says otherwise.

[DesertDiamond]

122. Sex change is not about wanting whatever privileges the other gender may have, it's about feeling

that one is in the wrong body.

[LetTimmySmoke]

62. Most white males in this country are downtrodden. Along with everyone else in the country.

They don't call it 99% for no reason. The problem is too many downtrodden white males don't understand who is downtrodding them.

[MineralMan]

68. I'm not really white...more a pinkish sort of color.

When I fill out a government form asking for my race, I always check Other and write "human." Every time. I refuse to acknowledge race, since it has always been such a barrier to humanity.

[ecstatic]

78. Great points, but I have one quibble

Despite all the privileges associated with being a white male, I wouldn't press a button to change into one. I'm happy with who I am. For that reason, I wouldn't begrudge a white male for not pushing the button to become me.

[wordpix]

82. how about becoming an environmentalist to really know what discrimination is about

As an environmentalist, I have been ridiculed, insulted, ignored, bullied and told I'm making trouble when I blow the whistle on developers doing bad things that are not in their permits. Then again, I'm a woman so that's part of it, too.

[pacalo]

83. Or, just suppose that reincarnation is what comes after we die.

Wouldn't it be something if the incompassionate ones were reborn as part of the minority group for which they had previously despised -- as a penance?

That could apply to race, gender, financial status, appearance...

Think about that.

[Fumesucker]

107. I'm going to be reincarnated as a rich Republican?

[MrScorpio]

89. Thanks, Willy T. nt

[WillyT]

90. Anytime MrScorpio, Anytime...

[Warren DeMontague]

97. Meh. I see some goofy fucking pro drug war hysteria about once a month.

See all kinds of crazy shit, around here.

[JNelson6563]

101. I don't think that was the thread OP's intention

If you are talking about the thread I think you'e talking about, it seems to me the OP was merely pointing out that there actually ARE white males who are in among the oppressed.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the notion that the 1%ers tend to be white males and frankly I didn't see anyone argue that there's no advantages to whites in our society.

I agree that there are actually white males out here in the unwashed masses, with the rest of us.

Does anyone really think that all white males are livin' the dream while oppressing others? Are there no white males that are shit upon as often as the rest of us?

Class, sexual orientation, religion (or lack of) all play into how people are treated.

I think a good example is the coal mining industry in the Appalachians, at least in the past~~perhaps still to some extent. If that isn't a prime case of white males (coal mine companies) happily oppressing and exploiting "their own" (white males who work in the mines) I don't know what is.

I think the problem here is blanket generalizations. If people would just stop insisting there is no gray area on issues, there is! Groups of people are not monolithic!

The haves will step all over the have-nots to keep and add to their wealth. They don't care what color or gender they have to climb over to get what they want.

I think those in the thread in question who called for us to put our differences aside and focus on our common goals, we'd be so much more effective.

Julie

[Mr Dixon]

106. IMO

WE STILL have a long ways to go to reach equality for everyone including White Males.

[mista411]

116. Only One Race

Welcome to the human race. A little worried about those Tea Party cousins of mine, but I think they'll be o. k.

[ScreamingMeemie]

129. And welcome to DU!

Looking forward to getting to know you.

[Lionessa]

123. I rec'd one yesterday that started that way, but

in the end said the same thing you are. It isn't by race, creed, or color we need to be worrying about, that's all put on us to distract us from uniting as the 99%. It would make it the 99%-the unwanted white males, so stop singling out any group, even the least distressed group, because in the end, "least distressed" is still distressed and still part of the 99%.

So I'm wondering if you entered the discussion you speak about to find it was not quite what you were expecting. I was glad I did, made a rec and an appropriate comment.

[mistertrickster]

125. Actually, if you're not in the top 1 percnt

you're downtrodden and exploited.

Some people because of race and gender and orientation are downtrodden and exploited more . . . but none of those disadvantages are as acute as the disadvantage as being born without serious money.

[Initech]

127. If you read that whole post it had a very good point.

Ane that is that we're all being oppressed no matter which way you look at it. The upper 1% are the ones who are causing all the death destruction and looting of every thing that matters to us. And they'll use any wedge issue they can - whether it's race, religion, money - you name it - to keep us fighting with each other while they rob us stupid. And we fall for it. The upper 1% - they are the real terrorists in this world and they continue to terrorize us on a daily basis. I'm pretty sure that was the point the original thread was trying to make.