The Senate Is Giving More Power To The NSA, In Secret. Everyone Should Fight It. - Guardian

[WillyT]

The Senate is giving more power to the NSA, in secret. Everyone should fight it.
Politicians are still trying to hand over your data behind closed doors, under the guise of 'cybersecurity' reform. Have we learned nothing?
Trevor Timm - theguardian.com
Saturday 12 July 2014 09.43 EDT

Now it's called the Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act (Cisa), and it is a nightmare for civil liberties. Indeed, it's unclear how this kind of law would even improve cybersecurity. The bill was marked up and modified by the Senate intelligence committee in complete secrecy this week, and only afterward was the public allowed to see many of the provisions passed under its name.

Cisa is what Senator Dianne Feinstein, the bill's chief backer and the chair of the committee, calls an "information-sharing" law that's supposed to help the government and tech and telecom companies better hand information back and forth to the government about “cyberthreat” data, such as malware. But in reality, it is written so broadly it would allow companies to hand over huge swaths of your data – including emails and other communications records – to the government with no legal process whatsoever. It would hand intelligence agencies another legal authority to potentially secretly re-interpret and exploit in private to carry out even more surveillance on the American public and citizens around the world.

Under the new provisions, your data can get handed over by the tech companies and others to the Department of Homeland Security (not exactly a civil liberties haven itself), but then it can be passed along to the nation's intelligence agencies … including the NSA. And even if you find out a company violated your privacy by handing over personal information it shouldn’t have, it would have immunity from lawsuits – as long as it acted in "good faith". It could amount to what many are calling a “backdoor wiretap”, where your personal information could end up being used for all sorts of purposes that have nothing to do with cybersecurity.

But it's not just privacy advocates who should be worried: transparency also takes a huge hit under this bill. Cisa would create a brand-new exception to the Freedom of Information Act (which is already riddled with holes), all the better to ensure everything in this particular process remains secret.

In typical intel-committee fashion, the Foia amendment wasn't even made public until after it was passed by committee.

More (lotsa links): http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/12/senate-nsa-secret-cybersecurity-information-sharing-act

[RKP5637]

1. What I find so absolutely bizarre, is if some are up to something, they probably aren't going to

broadcast it ...

[MannyGoldstein]

2. And again: if you have nothing to hide,

you have nothing to fear.

Just love Big Brother and STFU.

[RKP5637]

3. If they could achieve it, I think they would also opt for mass mind control. Technology is

great, until humans get it ...

[woo me with science]

5. They are getting as close to it as they can.

Purchased, corporate-driven messaging across the print media and the dial; ongoing transfer of the internet to corporate control; government assaults on real journalism, and incessant propaganda, smear campaigns, and disinformation campaigns aimed at American citizens who dare to question what's happening to this country. You can't even talk online without interactive bullshit being aimed your way.

The government is pouring our tax dollars into manipulating and controlling us.

Obama taps "cognitive infiltrator" Cass Sunstein for Committee to create "trust" in NSA:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023512796

Salon: Obama confidant’s spine-chilling proposal: Cass Sunstein wants the government to "cognitively infiltrate" anti-government groups
http://www.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/

The US government's online campaigns of disinformation, manipulation, and smear.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024560097

Snowden: ‘Training Guide’ for GCHQ, NSA Agents Infiltrating and Disrupting Alternative Media Online
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/02/25/snowden-training-guide-for-gchq-nsa-agents-infiltrating-and-disrupting-alternative-media-online/

The influx of corporate propaganda-spouting posters is blatant and unnatural.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3189367

U.S. Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News To Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023262111

The goal of the propaganda assaults across the internet is not to convince anyone of anything.*
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023359801

The government figured out sockpuppet management but not "persona management."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023358242

The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4159454

Seventeen techniques for truth suppression.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4249741

Just do some Googling on astroturfing - big organizations have some sophisticated tools.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1208351[/div class="excerpt"]

[RKP5637]

7. Thanks for posting this! I often wonder how many really get how manipulated and controlled they

already are. It's getting hard to find people who are not parrots.

[PosterChild]

29. It's interesting that Cass Sunstein seems to be...

... something of a civil rights advocate:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023512796#post215

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the process of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence." - Justice Brandeis.

[woo me with science]

32. Creepy, manipulative tactics that we associate with totalitarian states

rather than the United States of America.

And remember, a big mandate for this committee is not to review the programs to see if we can make them more privacy-protective, but simply to increase our trust in them. Which goes to the core of what Sunstein was talking about in his paper: using covert government propaganda to, in this case, better sell covert government spying.

This nation's relationship with its own citizens is being transformed into something very ugly and disturbing.

[PosterChild]

34. Supporting a warranted and justified...

... trust in institutions that are necessary for the protection and enhancement of our security but that, for practical reasons, must be kept less than fully transparent is a valuable and legitimate enterprise in an open society. An environment of warranted and justified trust is exactly the relationship that a nation needs in relation to its own citizens.

The core of Sunstein's paper was not an effort to "sell covert government spying" through "creepy, manipulative tactics". It is to undermine and correct irrational, damaging conspiracy theories. I don't see anything wrong with the government responding to and correcting the notion that it was itself responsible for the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

After reading Sunstein's paper, I'm convinced that he is an advocate (albeit a pragmatic advocate) of a free and open society. If you haven't, you can read it here:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1084585

[woo me with science]

35. What utter nonsense.

And the influx continues...

Obama taps "cognitive infiltrator" Cass Sunstein for Committee to create "trust" in NSA:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023512796

Salon: Obama confidant’s spine-chilling proposal: Cass Sunstein wants the government to "cognitively infiltrate" anti-government groups
http://www.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/

The US government's online campaigns of disinformation, manipulation, and smear.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024560097

Snowden: ‘Training Guide’ for GCHQ, NSA Agents Infiltrating and Disrupting Alternative Media Online
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/02/25/snowden-training-guide-for-gchq-nsa-agents-infiltrating-and-disrupting-alternative-media-online/

The influx of corporate propaganda-spouting posters is blatant and unnatural.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3189367

U.S. Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News To Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023262111

The goal of the propaganda assaults across the internet is not to convince anyone of anything.*
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023359801

The government figured out sockpuppet management but not "persona management."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023358242

The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4159454

Seventeen techniques for truth suppression.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4249741

Just do some Googling on astroturfing - big organizations have some sophisticated tools.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1208351[/div class="excerpt"]

[PosterChild]

46. I can only...

...once again encourage you (if you haven't already) to read the Sunstein paper itself.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1084585

He provides a careful and considered analysis of a serious and complex topic that has no easy answers. You may not agree with him (I'm sure you won't!) but it is worth considering a range of opinions and policy options in a thoughtful way.

[truedelphi]

36. From an article I wrote some years ago,

That was published by ACLU award winning "The Coastal Post" (And please note the Newsweek citation! this is not my imagination!)

Also some of those who have investigated HAARP are also concerned about other applications employing microwave technology that can be used as "mind-control" weapons over civilians. In recent months, Newsweek detailed how a vending machine already exists that can send out a subliminal "audio" signal to whatever human being may be walking by it, with the suggestion that "You are thirsty now. Wouldn't you like a soda." And as this suggestion exists below the normal conscious sensory apparatus of a human, it has an extremely powerful effect. The entire experience takes place through beaming microwave energy at the hapless human.

[RKP5637]

47. Something along that line ...

True / False, I have no idea ... but ... I have absolutely no doubt some really interesting R&D goes on, the potential is too great to be written off.

http://www.about-the-web.com/shtml/reports/mind_control.shtml

[JDPriestly]

11. Which makes me wonder what Dianne Feinstein has to fear since she is so willing to do whatever

the NSA and intelligence agencies ask of her.

Her acquiescence to every demand by the intelligence industry suggests either that she is under duress, that her acquiescence is being coerced or extorted, or that she is afraid she will be placed under duress for some reason.

[MannyGoldstein]

14. Or... Well, mansions like *this* don't grow on trees...

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Feinstein-s-16-5-million-view-in-Pacific-Heights-2523619.php

http://www.projectcensored.org/u-s-senator-dianne-feinsteins-husband-selling-post-offices-friends/

[JDPriestly]

15. $16.5 million doesn't grow on trees either.

I realize that her husband is a successful businessman, but whew! Is he all that much of a genius, or he just grab a lot of government contracts with hefty profit margins?

Last I read, he was reported to be selling post offices. What a racket!

[truedelphi]

37. Bwhahahahahahah!! Duress? How about the millions and millions of dollars she & hubby

Richard Bum roll around in, through her leaking information to him, and then his securing governmental contracts, from all the times she has served as Head of this or that Defense or Surveillance-related Committees?

Even though she re-wrote the US Senate rules of ethics, so that it is now nigh impossible to even say the words "Conflict of interest" against a Senator,*** her behavior in terms of giving out secret information to her husband, so his contracting company can then secure bids on various things, was so deplorable that Republicans got her in quite a bit of trouble back in 2007 or 2008. When Republicans go after you for being scum, well, how bad can that be?

Reporter Peter Byrne covered a great deal of information about this nefarious person, and here is a several link regarding what went on:

http://www.altweeklies.com/aan/sen-feinstein-resigns-from-subcommittee-after-alt-weekly-expose/Article?oid=182359

Feinstein is A Democrat in Name Only. Anyone looking into Feinstein must also question why she chose the people she chose to run against Schwartzennegger, basically deliberately throwing the Gubarnatorial elections to Ahnold not once but twice (With the last time being in direct defiance of what people indicated they wanted,a s Steve Westly was the people's choice, not Phil Angelides.)

***And after the US Senate Ethics Code got re-written, she then had one of her own hench people serve as the supervisor over Senate Ethics

[Vincardog]

4. Who do they work for?

[IDemo]

6. I'm increasingly reminded of the old days

Just not the old days this side of the globe.

[RKP5637]

49. It is very reminiscent, I find it very troubling, what is going on in the US now ... n/t

[grasswire]

51. and we used to mock them

very sad now

[RufusTFirefly]

8. And Feinstein is the bill's chief backer??

Color me shocked! Not!

[zeemike]

9. That explains why they are keeping us busy with other things to be upset about.

So they can slip in the stuff they want done with no notice.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

10. Diane Feinstein is a horrible human being

This goes far beyond party lines. Feinstein is an active enemy of the Constitution.

[RufusTFirefly]

13. Meanwhile, her husband is selling off the nation's treasured post offices

In 2011, the CB Richard Ellis Group (now CBRE Group, Inc.), the world's largest commercial real estate
services firm, was awarded an exclusive contract to market USPS facilities which provides CBRE with a commission of 2 to 6 percent on the sale of those properties. This award has been the subject of some controversy, as CBRE's Chairman of the Board is Richard C. Blum, the husband of Senator Dianne Feinstein, who represents the state of California in the U.S. Senate.

Confirmed by Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/blum.asp

[George II]

20. Her husband isn't selling off post offices, the government is selling them off.

Her husband has been hired to be the real estate broker.

[RufusTFirefly]

23. Nor is a person who works in a shoe store actually selling shoes.

Congratulations for unearthing a huge scandal!

[George II]

30. In your previous post, you made it seem like it was HIS decision to sell post offices.

A shoe salesman isn't the one who decides to sell the shoes, the owner of the shoes is the one who decides. Unless of course the salesman OWNS the store (or post offices)

[cantbeserious]

12. The Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks Own And Control The Politicians That Own And Control Us

eom

[truedelphi]

38. As Lord James Goldsmith stated in his interview with Charlie Rose,

Back in the Clinton era, "The Institutions that were created to serve The People are now instruments of the government, although the government was created to be The People's instrument." (Paraphrasing, he was a bit more eloquent.).

[cantbeserious]

41. Yes - Too True - Here Is The Link To Those Interviews - So Others Might Know The History

Last edited Sun Jul 13, 2014, 03:33 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025203338

[truedelphi]

45. Those interviews are very revealing. And I hope many others

take a moment to listen to them.

[NorthCarolina]

16. The masses are getting restless...time to fast track things. nt

[truedelphi]

39. And the new agreement, TISA, would give a person a five year jail sentence for even

Discussing it!

[NorthCarolina]

53. Yes, you have to ask yourself exactly WHY would such a provision be included? nt

[Diclotican]

17. WillyT

WillyT

It is a sad irony that US are going the same road as other totalitarian states have doing - given their security systems more or less all powerful powers to control and to do surveillance against everyone, everywhere and under every possible actions - with no legal process at all....

The KGB of old - was build up by the same lines as NSA are making them self up now - all powerful entities who can control and keep an eye on everyone, everywhere - if they choose to do it.... And all the laws who gave KGB all this powers - was given them by the same people they should protect against outer and inner enemies - enemies who by the time of KGB was long going - and released by a authoritarian regime who crushed or at least tried to crush every dissent with prison times out in the Siberian toundra... US do not have yet any prison complex in the deep Alaskans cold - but they have more prisoners than every other nations in the world - even beat China and Russia by a mile on that progress...

You are closer to an authority regime than you have ever been - if you is able to dodge the bullet you are the exception from the norm - but I do not believe you are so exceptional from that possibility - next presidential election will be very important for the future of the US for many years to come... And I'm pretty sure if you manage to elect a new republican President - US is really messed up - and will go down a road I really do not believed US was able to go down - sadly I was wrong....

Diclotican

[Uncle Joe]

18. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, WillyT.

[George II]

19. Well, if the Guardian knows about it, how can the Senate be doing it "in secret"?

[truedelphi]

57. For one thing, the Guardian is a UK newspaper, and how

Much mention of these goings on does the American public ever hear about?

So although maybe not exactly top secret, the fact that the matter is only in The Guardian does keep it from getting the attention that the issue needs here in the USA.

[George II]

58. My point was that if it was being done "in secret", those doing it would be........

.....the only ones who knew about it.

[DeSwiss]

21. That's the side of Congress the so-called ''good guys'' control, right?

- So it would seem that suicide is the only certain method that will work in ''fighting'' it.



That or a revolution.......

[whereisjustice]

24. It's not secret anymore... just released photo shows intel-committee discussing the new bill

[snot]

25. K&R'd!

[woo me with science]

26. "all the better to ensure everything in this particular process remains secret."

We are witnessing nothing less than the dismantling of our democratic systems from within.

This cannot stand. We cannot let this continue.

[RKP5637]

50. I often wonder how many Americans really get what is going on ... n/t

[grasswire]

27. Orwell

“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever.”
- George Orwell, 1984

[Enthusiast]

28. Unchecked, that would be the future.

I hope we can change that. We better act quickly.

[marmar]

31. "Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act (Cisa)"

[woo me with science]

33. This is important.

These fascists are out of control.

[Rex]

40. Wow, one had to wonder what the CIA and NSA have on Congress critters.

Must be some really bad shit to make them forget all about that little "spying on Congress" thingy...no big deal, whatever you guys want! Blackmail should be illegal.

[grasswire]

52. the DoJ refused to open an investigation...

....into the CIA's spying on Senate Intelligence Committee.

[Rex]

54. Wonder what the CIA has on the DoJ?

And down the rabbit hole we go!

[grasswire]

55. well it's probably Holder who makes that decision ultimately

Maybe even in consultation with Obama.

The Intel elites have someone by the short hairs, for sure.

[karynnj]

42. This still has to pass the complete Senate and will be open to amendment

The secrecy extends just to creating the committee's bill -- and at that point, the ONLY people who vote on it are the members of the committee, who, of course, were privy to the entire process.

I assume the secrecy is more because of to write a bill that does oversight of things that are currently (and likely in the future secret), there will be information given to the committee that is classified. I once watched a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing chaired by Lugar that was part of the John Bolton confirmation hearing. A big issue dealt with some allegations concerning a former CIA asset. While many suggested that it should be closed, the chair decided that they could have it open, with everyone using a false name for the person they could not name. First, Lugar and then Kerry accidentally used the name as they each read back up information to support positions they took that included the real name. I can imagine that discussions that would want to reference actual past things might have the same problem.

However, the bill that passed the committee is no longer secret. The title is misleading as NOTHING has either house of Congress - and only by doing so could the CONGRESS give more power to the NSA.

My problem is that this is a case where they are ignoring that there are many more steps in the process which will not only not be in secret, but will be live on CSPAN! Not to mention, let's say the committee DID have an open meeting on the mark up. how many here -- speaking of the secrecy -- would have watched the live stream (or even the archived copy of it)

[xchrom]

43. du rec.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. Not to worry. Obama will surely veto it.

Won't he?

[truebrit71]

48. DiFi is a disgrace...

We need to find a Democrat to replace her. Preferably one that understands what the fucking fourth amendment means. ..

[wildbilln864]

56. K & Freakin r! n/t