Some on the left have defended the anti-gay, warmongering Putin a million more times than Obama.

[Drunken Irishman]

It's fascinating how a good amount of progressives will do more to defend Putin than they ever defended Obama. I'm not saying DEFEND OBAMA - I'm saying how interesting they can't even find good to say about the President and yet can't help but fall over themselves to defend the murderous bigot from Russia because? ...

[Hekate]

1. Truly amazing

[RobertEarl]

5. It is amazing

How hyperbolic the post is. And lacking credibility.

[Hekate]

8. Just look around GD for the RT love, and close by is the Putin love.

Just sayin'

[William769]

9. Boom!

[Adrahil]

30. +1 NT

[Union Scribe]

31. All I see are hysterical threads like this

fretting that the Reds are invading DU

[Hekate]

40. Interesting. Nobody that I've seen has said that the Commies are here...

...at least not in any numbers. They often identify themselves by their avatars or in other ways and are not persecuted.

Nor have I seen any "hysteria" regarding either RT or Vlad the Poot. Just some well-merited disdain, which is another kettle of fish.

Disdain =/= hysteria.

[cui bono]

110. +1

On DU critical thinking = Putin lover.

[DonCoquixote]

178. Putin has not been red for years

However, he is acting a lot like a Czar, especially towards the LGBT. Just because we can side with him on some issues (like Ukraine) and go against him on others (like LGBT) is not in any way reviving a "red" scare. Yes, we can indeed look at RT, which has real liberals, and ask "why are you silent on this?" , especiallyu as many of those guests, like Ted Rall, were all for LGBT rights before Putin paid him.

If putin wanted to revive the "reds" he could, he does not. Ask the Russian Communists why they HATE Putin.

[DRoseDARs]

183. Communist Red? No. Blood Red? You betcha...

Georgia, Chechnya, Ukraine, LGBT and political dissidents within Russia. Who's next? Where does it stop?

[Spider Jerusalem]

191. Sorry, but if you side with Putin on Ukraine? You may be in the wrong place.

[TBF]

196. Has the TOS been re-written? If so please provide. nt

[Spazito]

34. Yep n/t

[machiavelliisalive]

93. Or maybe just anti-war people who don't really see events as the narrative gives it to us?

Seriously, just consider reading this excellent post from Commondreams.org . It might help you to really understand your fellow liberals despite the very divisive atmosphere that has been created around recent conflicts.

Published on Friday, July 18, 2014 by Common Dreams
Malaysia Airlines Flight 17: The Problem Isn’t Conflict, It’s Violent Conflict Management
by Erin Niemela

https://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/07/18

[The Magistrate]

94. People Understand A Position Of Pure Pacifism, Sir

But that is not what is being engaged here by our Hibernian friend.

He is engaging people who actively take one side of a conflict, sometimes under guise of opposition to war, sometimes under guise of being 'lefter than thou' or purer than the tainted souls who still support an elected President, even though the side they are supporting is in fact that of an open fascist engaged in classic imperialism by violence.

There are times when pacifism is, in practical fact, simply assistance to an aggressor.

[The Magistrate]

101. Do, Please, Sir, Tell Us Of This 'Reporting That Does Not Get Seen In The West'.....

"Enquiring minds want to know."

[cui bono]

111. Ever seen the comparison of US and European Time magazine covers?

That's the perfect illustration of that point.

[The Magistrate]

116. Quite Familiar With It, Ma'am, Though It Has Been Ages Since I Saw Even An American Cover Of It

Doubt that is what the fellow is referencing, though. The context of the statement seemed to indicate reporting on events in Ukraine.

[cui bono]

119. Well I would say it encompasses all reporting really.

There was just the issue of NBC news replacing that journalist who saw those teens get killed in Gaza. Hell, just watch any TV news coverage in the US compared to say the BBC or Al Jazeera. It's pretty bad.

[The Magistrate]

121. I Doubt Many Here, Ma'am, Restrict Themselves To U.S. Network News....

[cui bono]

122. That is not my argument. I'm just saying I agree that foreign press/media is better than US press.

I'm quite sure it has to do with our press being so corporate.

[Spider Jerusalem]

136. Europe is not the West, now?

Since when, exactly?

[cui bono]

176. Heh. Yeah, that was poorly done on my part. I was going to mention where those two other

covers that are usually shown but I didn't remember where they were from! I did mention Al-Jazeera in some post about this somewhere else though.

Tbh though, I think my brain went to US when that other poster mentioned poor news coverage because ours is so abysmal. To lump us in with "the West" is doing a disservice to European outlets, who are generally far superior to US outlets.

[The Magistrate]

117. This Seems Oddly Familiar, Sir

The sort of thing one encounters when one sets one's face to the west and strikes out as a young man....

[OilemFirchen]

141. I think not, your honor.

This one is disjointed and has a tell which suggests that he is in the camp described by the OP. The one on vacation, for all of his faults, was of a singular purpose and well-spoken.

I beseech you to contemplate the underlying distinctions.

[The Magistrate]

144. My Mind Takes a Dark Turn, Sir

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025258045#post6

[OilemFirchen]

148. This one signed up today.

It has some prototypical language limitations - ones which would suggest a native English speaker with poor retention...

The traveling chap maintained a certain precision to his language.

OMC, though? Can't remember enough.

[The Magistrate]

149. I Am Aware Of That, Sir

A person who maintains a certain style, any style, is capable of maintaining another should that seem needed. I could, if I chose, confine myself to short plain words in short sentences, or present as someone barely able to work within the confines of grammar where sentence structure and punctuation were concerned. Our truly dedicated trolls, and there have been several, present multiple personas, not always in agreement with one another, and employ the one which seems most apt to stir intense reaction. When one is rumbled, another with somewhat different affect may be employed, but still aimed to the produce the same effect, if that is the one most likely to provoke.

"On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog."

[OilemFirchen]

157. That is, of course, the plain truth Your Honor.

I have no doubt that our newest interlocutor is a knitted plaything. Perhaps, though, I've been too vague. While it is possible for a native speaker to feign a certain ignorance with subtle linguistic manglings, I sense that, for the other, English is not his first language. Thus, while quite capable of precision - if well enough educated or directed - it's nigh on impossible to duplicate the manner in which native speakers adopt certain colloquial styles. In my experience, it's always come off as clumsy and obvious.

That said, I defer to the Court. More to the point, I've no use for either one, and predict a short stay for the first.

[OilemFirchen]

179. Which way did he go?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=128462

[NutmegYankee]

114. +1.

Couldn't have said that any better.

[SidDithers]

150. Yup...nt

Sid

[Strelnikov_]

160. Agree n/t

[babylonsister]

29. No kidding!

And the young man had such a bright future.

[JI7]

2. don't assume they are the left , there is a reason some feel the need to go on about how liberal

they are rather than have anything to show for it.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

35. It's funny to watch the shills slip up with a right wing bit of "common knowledge".

[Tarheel_Dem]

205. DING! DING! DING!

[onecaliberal]

3. Putin belongs in the same place as bush and Cheney.

They shouldn't get to walk free and kill more people. There was a time we locked up or executed criminals like this. Now a days they are celebrated. What kind of people support these power hungry criminals with pools of blood dripping from their hands?

[RobertEarl]

4. You should delete this

Or, give links to your accusations.

I'd vote for rude and disruptive on the coming jury.

[Barack_America]

11. Visit GD much?

Try searching DU for "Putin American exceptionalism".

That should find you plenty of examples of DUers swooning over Vlad.

[Luminous Animal]

50. Did it. And the results do not support the OP whatsoever.

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=%22Putin+American+exceptionalism%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[Barack_America]

83. That's not a search of DU posts.

[William769]

12. Why? I know the truth hurts.

All one has to do is open their eyes.

If you get the results please post them.

[phleshdef]

44. Nobody gives 2 shits how you would vote or what you think should be deleted.

Just letting you know where you stand.

[NuclearDem]

51. Wouldn't really help you.

ENENews isn't covering Ukraine.

[mcar]

6. There are posters on this board

twisting themselves into pretzels to defend Putin. One need only look at GD to find them.

It truly defies logic how anyone calling themselves liberal or progressive could defend Putin.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

37. Blame false choices again....

In this case it's the false choice between our own brand of corporate fascism and an enemy of it,....which you assume is a friend.

[Kaleva]

7. Some people hate everything American

Putin, being a non-American, is better then Obama

[Spitfire of ATJ]

41. Given a choice of "non-American" I'll pick Tahiti.

Sue me...

[zeemike]

63. That is what all the right wingers say about us.

So I guess it must be true.

[Kaleva]

130. No RWer or anyone else has ever said I praise Putin or have nothing good to say about Obama

When you say "us", whom are you talking about?

[zeemike]

132. Liberals...progressives...

The right wing says we hate America...they say it all the time...and you repeated the chartge...although you speak of the fictional DUer that is a libertarian here to disrupt I know.

[Kaleva]

134. I didn't specifically say progressives or liberals.

I said some people. Read my post again. I think you'd have to admit that "some people" do actually hate everything American.

[zeemike]

135. Well you are posting on a liberal progressive board

And the OP is about people here...and your comments were directed to those people spoken of in the OP...so who else would those "some people" be?

Now if you were in Afghanistan of Palestine your point might be valid because some of them do hate America...but to say that to an American is right wing bullshit that they use all the time against us when we complain about the policy of the US on any position...and IMO that is un american.

And BTW, I don't love Putin because I don't join in on the hate fest...(the truth is that I don't even know Putin and neither does anyone here) ...I believe that too is another right wing trait that progressives should avoid less we become like them.

[Kaleva]

138. Your'e still reading a lot more into what I actually wrote.

Your comment:

"and your comments were directed to those people spoken of in the OP"

That just an assumption on your part.

I was referring to people across the political spectrum. Be it a leftist who thinks the US is a greedy, evil empire which will one day destroy humanity or a gun lover holed up at the Bundy Ranch who has the opinion that this nation was long ago taken over by minorities (Jews) and Liberal elites.

Both may say they hate the America of today but for entirely different and sometimes directly opposing reasons.

[zeemike]

139. Hating the policies of your country does not equal hating your country.

If that were true the majority of people in this country hate America.
And I think that is a bogus charge...that the right wing is famous for and was used to squelch decent for the last two wars.

[stevenleser]

166. Putinistas hate the US to the point of being negative nationalists about it.

They will support anyone who in their estimation appears to be a US antagonist.

http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/nationalism.html

[zeemike]

167. Well then just look into the mirror

And you will see a positive nationalist...one the supports what ever policy the leaders say they want to do regardless of the morality of it...they will hate not only Putin but anyone who questions their framing of him as the biggest monster ever...have we not seen that enough to know where it will lead?
Nationalism is the blood that runs through Faschism...and when taken to extremes gives Fascism a foot hole on our nation...Democrocy cannot survive the type of nationalism you seem to want...because it will not allow for criticism, and many will oppose the use of intimidation to force alegence...I know it turns me off.

[stevenleser]

168. Nope, I have criticized the US plenty of times. None of what you wrote is correct. nt

[zeemike]

169. Well good then, you might not mind if I do the same.

[stevenleser]

170. If your reasoning is completely silly and wrongheaded? Yes, I mind. nt

[zeemike]

174. Well it is silly in your mind.

But not in mine...but I have never liked falling in line for reasons of political loyalty.

[cui bono]

112. omg... the bubble you guys live in. You are as bad as the teabaggers. n/t

[Bonobo]

10. If you elected Obama, financially supported Obama...

Then you are allowed to criticize him.

If you have class and a sense of what is proper, you criticize what is within your power to change, you clean up your own house.

Criticizing Putin may be fun, but it is a bit like masturbating and then congratulating yourself for being a great lover.

[neverforget]

13. Lol!

"......it is a bit like masturbating and then congratulating yourself for being a great lover."

[lunatica]

27. Who could refute that?

You're really only giving yourself a self assessment on your idea of your own loverhood. And self-congratulations are the best kind because you know they're sincere. Why, they can lead to a standing ovation at times

[neverforget]

62. can't my hands are busy.....

[zeemike]

64. What?...you use both hands?

That must be quite a chore.

[neverforget]

66. i had to type with one...

[zeemike]

72. Left or right?

Or are you a switch hitter?

[joshcryer]

65. If Putin got no criticism there would be no response.

The President is instructed by public opinion about Putin. If we all just turned a blind eye, then what?

[Bonobo]

92. I doubt the POTUS is "instructed" on Putin by public opinion of the Hoi Poloi. nt

[joshcryer]

95. Gay marriage and marijuana would disagree.

Since he didn't "evolve" on those issues until the polls said to.

I think Syria and Libya were the only times I ever saw this President do something or act in a way that went against public opinion (within his power of course). And then, he pulled back on executive privilege for unilateral war powers for a President.

I dunno. I feel your attempt to shut down criticism of Putin falls flat, but maybe you're right.

[Bonobo]

96. Domestic policy and foreign policy are a bit different in the game of politics. nt

[joshcryer]

97. Yeah.

My post may not have indicated it but I saw the conflict as I was writing it.

But Obama ain't causing WWIII, at least. So I can talk shit about Putin if I want.

[Bonobo]

98. Talk away.

When you catch me defending an ex-KGB, gay-bashing authoritarian fuckwad, slap me, ok?

[joshcryer]

99. Deal.

[cui bono]

118. So then the president is also instructed by public opinion on social security, the public option,

TPP, etc... but we are told to not discuss any of that when being worried about actions he is reported to be taking, we are told to "wait and see what happens", we are asked how we can criticize something that "hasn't even happened yet".

Can't have it both ways.

Frankly I haven't seen any "Putin love" on here. But Obama's defenders tend to think everything is black and white, that you're either for us or against us (where have we heard that before???). There is no room for nuance and critical thinking with that group and people who post and defend ridiculous OPs such as this.

[joshcryer]

123. Link one post that says "not discuss any of that."

One post.

The President didn't do anything to SS, the Public Option was beyond his control, and TPP is geopolitical and polls say Americans support it. Next?

[cui bono]

124. Really? You don't remember all the posts about not criticizing the TPP because "it hasn't happened

yet"? Same lame reason given for not criticizing chained CPI. As if one is not supposed to make their voice heard regarding issues that are being discussed by our lawmakers.

I'm pretty sure linking to posts is against the rules and I'm not going to risk a hide for that. You're here enough, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. It happened with Summers' possible appointment, it happened with the TPP and it happened with chained CPI. Feel free to find posts on that if you really need to, but I'm quite certain you couldn't have missed them the first time around. It happens almost any time policy/appointments by this administration is criticized.

[joshcryer]

125. Link one post.

One.

This is the lowest possible bar to be set.

Some have mocked people for being upset about TPP because it hasn't passed yet, but they never said not to discuss it.

Some people mocked people for freaking out over C-CPI because there was no chance in hell it passed with a poverty exemption (which the CBPP endorsed, btw).

Linking a post is not against the rules. You can link such a post. If you want, PM me said post, and I will reply with your PM link to prove to you that linking a post is not hideworthy. I do it all the time and throughout this thread people have linked others' posts here.

The bar: someone saying not to discuss something you mentioned.

[cui bono]

127. Well I tried a search and here's what I found:

The connection has timed out

The server at www.democraticunderground.com is taking too long to respond.

The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try again in a few moments.
If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer's network connection.
If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make sure that Firefox is permitted to access the Web.

So this will have to wait until tomorrow. I have to go to bed. Feel free to try it yourself. There's plenty of posts out there that say we can't criticize something that doesn't exist yet.

[joshcryer]

128. Have a good night.

If I respond it'll be on my phone tomorrow (I might wait until I have computer access though, which will be some 18 hours from now, minimum), so please don't take a terse / concise response negatively.

I'd be interested in the keywords you used to search.

[cui bono]

173. I used something like "hasn't happened yet" because that was the excuse people were using

as to why we couldn't possibly criticize something. Oh, they also said "it doesn't exist". Unfortunately both those phrases have very common words to maybe that's why the search never finished.

Maybe I'll look through my posts with that type of search since I know I responded to a lot of them.

But that'll be this afternoon. I'm actually going to have a social life this weekend since I have both days off work!

[cui bono]

193. So searching for my posts with something like "doesn't exist" I came up with some posts that

touch on it, but weren't as direct as others I've seen. If you read any of the heated threads about TPP, Summers possible appointment or Chained CPI you would have had a difficult time not seeing them. And then when Summers was not nominated they said "see, all that whining about nothing, it never happened" when the reason it didn't happen was all the criticism when the trial balloon was floated! It's really a very serious deficiency in critical thinking and logic and many other things. Those that do that are as bad as teabaggers. Frankly, they are the teabaggers of the Dem Party as far as the type of mentality they exhibit and the way they live in their own little bubble.

But I did get one just tonight saying no need to discuss TPP until it is enacted:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5268022

Here's some of the others I found:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3689925

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4043239

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3938064

[joshcryer]

202. Well, let me say one thing.

Well, two. C-CPI wasn't going to pass because it had a poverty exemption. Anyone with sense knew that. There's no way the Republicans vote to save almost 10 million seniors from poverty.

And the President has to choose from the board of governors which Summers wasn't even on (he would've had to have been nominated twice basically). Yellen was the easy corporate pick. Stanley Fischer would've been the much better pick (he's a Keynesian), but that would've been a difficult sell. But who would've thought the vice chair of the Fed would be a Keynesian?

[cui bono]

203. But the point being made was that there are people on DU who are so adverse to criticism

of the current administration that they tell people not to discuss/criticize anything that hasn't actually been implemented yet. That's quite ridiculous since that's the very time it needs to be discussed in order to head it off at the pass. Once someone has been appointed, a law has been passed, a policy enacted it will be too late. Plus that is the direct opposite of how our democracy is supposed to function.

[joshcryer]

206. I don't see that to be frank.

I see healthy discussion in those threads. I think if anything people who say "we don't have details" or "that didn't pass" are being dismissed, for, you know, what happened.

[cui bono]

207. Well I'm telling you it has happened on many occasions on here.

That I can't find a more blunt example of it is due to it being difficult to have them come up in a search and I'm not the type who bookmarks people's post for later use.

You can surely see from what I posted that there are people who do not think anything needs discussing until it is too late. The first one is exactly that.

If you really believe what you posted that it's the opposite then I'm sorry, you are being blind. And again, it's about people not wanting to have any discussion, trying to tell people there's no reason to criticize something that hasn't happened yet or that "doesn't exist yet". That is absolutely ridiculous and if you don't think so then there's no point in continuing the discussion because that is the very foundation of our democracy. And if you don't think it's wrong to tell people to not discuss anything until it's already in place, implemented, appointed, whatever, then you simply don't believe in democracy.

[joshcryer]

208. I think you're misrepresenting that MM post.

MM was talking about hair on fire things that didn't happen but people claimed were happening. I never told people not to discuss or speculate about future happenings, but I rarely get that sort of discussion. For instance, here's the famous thread calling for ACA to be shot down by SCOTUS: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002476222

I speculate a lot in that thread. I say it would be a bad thing. Some here thought it would be a good thing. Many people rec'd that thread.

Then there's this classic thread which openly mocks DUer's who support Obama: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002184082

[cui bono]

210. I gave you a stellar example and you don't want to accept it.

It clearly stated that once the TPP was enacted, then it could be discussed.

I'm not saying you said that but you are not accepting that other people have said that on here. Enough people have said it that wisecracks are made about that "talking point" by several other members.

And now you are trying to deflect from this issue by bringing up people mocking other people. How about we stick to what we are talking about, the stifling of discussion. That stifling is purposely attempted because those who are attempting to stifle it simply cannot stand to hear any criticism of the current administration. So you agree with that? Do you think that's okay?

So there's a thread mocking Obama supporters. Do you want me to find threads by those supporters mocking people who don't see the world as black and white? That's not what we are talking about. We are talking about attempts to not allow open and honest discussions simply because it makes the current administration look bad. And now you are attempting to derail this discussion just as the apologists attempt to derail any discussion that is critical of Obama.

The only people I've seen on here who actually have said you can't say anything until it "exists" are the Obama apologists who do not want a robust discussion if it isn't applauding whatever Obama does. And that is not healthy for democracy, in fact it will be the death of it if it is allowed.

[joshcryer]

216. So here's how politics work, in the US:

Here's a civic's lesson: committees sit around talking about what stuff they want to table to be discussed. Sometimes commissions are set up before that to refer something to a committee.

Now, sometimes someone on a committee will send out rumors and feelers and balloon trials about various aspects of legislation. For instance, in the case of Simpson-Bowels there were lots of recommendations, raise the cap, Chained CPI, what have you. Chained-CPI came with a requirement to close corporate tax loopholes (especially since the effective corporate rate is near 0% in the USA), oh, and we need to throw a poverty exception in there because someone who lives a long time under Chained-CPI is going to fall below the threshold. These are the things Pelosi advocated.

Now that's how it worked, at the commission level. What happened was that Republicans, not Democrats, Republicans sent out rumors that the President was setting up Catfood Comissions to make poor people live in destitution. This was at the committee level.

Here's the trick, the committee level is where the bargaining happens. The commission level is just guidelines, recommendations, numbers, whatever. Unlike the people who run the committee, the people drafting the proposals are actually policy wonks, lifer public administrative wonks who know how the various administrations work and how they can cut here or fix there. What the "ratfuckers" did is they pointed out all the shitty things in Simpson-Bowles and attributed it to the Democrats. And that's ultimately why the Democrats lost in 2010 because the base was completely demoralized.

Now the President wanted something done, because he was a deficit hawk all the way back when he was campaigning, so he would've gone with it. But what Pelosi was offering was a grand bargain that the Republicans would've never accepted. Bringing seniors out of poverty is out of the question, closing tax loopholes is out of the question (and there were still people, and Obama was still advocating for, raising the SS cap instead of C-CPI).

Is it then fair to speculate, in a vacuum, about what the President does or offers without considering the totality of what is being offered? Fuck no it isn't. It's wrong. Because, while you act as if you play in gray areas, politics really is a series of gray areas overlapping gray areas. It's why Elizabeth Warren, the saintly liberal who's liberal rating is no better than Mark Udall, voted against the medical device tax in the ACA. Because her state benefits from medical device sales. The difference being, of course, is that Warren voted against it, while there was no vote on the "Catfood Commission" because it was all political theater.

[cui bono]

217. So here's how democracy works.

Here's a civics lesson for you: If the people don't make their voices heard then the powers that be can do what they want. Summers was floated as a trial balloon and it went so badly he pulled out, most likely he was told to, cuz that's how that works.

If the people wait until a law is enacted then it is too late to stop it from becoming law.

So again, are you okay with people telling us to keep quiet when there are things on the table to be concerned about? Do you think we should not speak out against the Keystone Pipeline or TPP? Do you want to stifle discussion of these things? That's what we're discussing here. You can keep trying to deflect from the issue, but the issue at hand, which you seem adamant about not admitting, is that there are DUers who tell others to stop "whining" and that they "can't be against something that doesn't exist yet" and that there's no discussion to be had until the TPP is enacted. It's real, I've pointed it out to you after you asked for "just one post" and yet you continue to deflect and can't bring yourself to simply say, oh, yes, I see, people have done that.

So I'm done. I've shown you it happens. You can deflect and disregard it but that doesn't make it disappear. It happens and it happens by those who think they are being patriotic by trying to disallow any criticism of the current administration when in fact, by stifling discussion and criticism of our govt they are being anti-democratic, which is unpatriotic.

Bye now.

[joshcryer]

218. I don't say to keep quiet.

I say be prepared to be called on the BS.

[conservaphobe]

14. Our side's teabaggers. nt

[Spider Jerusalem]

15. It's not that they've defended Putin, necessarily

there are a lot of people who buy into the myth of American omnipotence, for whom US foreign policy is always directed toward sinister ends--like the popular argument here that the Ukraine protests were coordinated by the CIA and financed by the USA, and the separatists represent the True Will of the People and they're being saved from the evil clutches of austerity capitalism by Kindly Uncle Vlad. Doesn't matter that it's fundamentally untrue. It fits with their existing preconceptions.

[Drunken Irishman]

16. I do agree with that. Change out Putin for anyone and you'd get the same results, me thinks.

[Spider Jerusalem]

23. Have gotten the same results, in fact

I remember seeing a few posts here about how awesome Qaddafi was and what a shining monument of progressive achievement Libya became under his rule, for instance.

[Drunken Irishman]

24. I think I remember that too...

Hell, there was a poster here who used to prop up the NK regime...

[joshcryer]

69. Most of the anti-American posters get the boot, eventually.

Or they stop posting.

I can name a dozen or so banned users. I can name another half dozen or so who just have gone quiet here but who are over at Discussionist or on Twitter spilling their bile.

I saw one series of Tweets today which said, in series, like, literally one after the other that "rebels don't have Buk" and that "the Buk rebels have has its electronics messed up."

Then you clicked the article and pow, guess what? The article doesn't say that they don't have Buk.

Then they have the audacity to follow those tweets up with outright lies that Buk requires 20 fucking operators and a half dozen other vehicles. Except, Buk is self-contained, and literally can be a one man operation. The full armament with all the accessories allows one to use Buk more safely (such as IFF detectors). But Buk alone, can be operated by one individual, and is a murderous piece of equipment.

[Hekate]

19. +1

Very well said, SJ

[whatchamacallit]

17. Where?

Please post links lest this be flame bait.

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. They refer to defenses of vicious dictator Putin as "critical thinking"

These people have a really high opinion of themselves. They're geniuses, while everyone else are "sheeple."

I've gotten over being annoyed at people like that. I just feel sorry for them now.

[conservaphobe]

22. Pseudo-intellectuals. nt

[Major Hogwash]

38. Ayn Rand Paul followers

Like Moonies, they are deluded by the myths they choose to believe.

[greatauntoftriplets]

142. I just laugh at them!

[Number23]

186. "I just feel sorry for them now." I whole heartedly co-sign this

Pity with a heaping dose of thankfulness that they don't affect any kind of policy and never have.

[sheshe2]

20. Yes indeed, they have.

thanks DI

[Luminous Animal]

46. Where? When? Links? Because without evidence it is bullshit.

[stevenleser]

151. You had an argument with one of them who insisted RT was journalisms gold standard

and to argue otherwise was to be against the 1st amendment.

[NaturalHigh]

21. Somehow I doubt that.

[Blue_Tires]

25. It's really amusing when they howl about

Obama's "war on journalists or press freedoms" or whatever and I get to cite the dozens of anti-corruption journalists imprisoned/shot/kidnapped/vanished under Putin's regime in just 12 years...

At least we've finally had the last word once and for all on RT...I don't know how anyone can even defend them anymore (especially since Greenwald stopped defending them)

[msanthrope]

26. Excellent observation. nt

[Cali_Democrat]

28. Psssst

They aren't Progressives...

[Iliyah]

58. Ditto!

[Cha]

32. I just wish they could get to Russia and have Putin as their leader.. they could post RT

articles in Russia on RU in LBN to their heart's content. Then they wouldn't have to twist themselves into pretzels defending putin on DU. "Good Russian/Bad USA "

Who knows.. maybe ol Putin would take them in? He took in Eddie.. course Eddie had more to offer than putinistas on an internet board.

[blkmusclmachine]

33. Sock puppets here praise Putin. But ... they're SOCK PUPPETS. It's what they do. Sow discord.

[lunatica]

36. If Obama took his shirt off and rode a steed while

brandishing a large weapon with dead animals strewn all around him they'd love him. They'd say he's a manly man, the sign of a true leader!

[Iliyah]

39. K & R

At this point in time the USA still have "freedom" of speech". Every waking hour people can spew the worst crap about the President of the United States of America and anybody else. I know certain conservative groups are do their bestie in taking over all the media and social media and want to take us back to the 1900s or earlier.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

42. You know why, DI. They'll never admit it, but we both know why.

[Luminous Animal]

45. Who are these people who won't admit it? Got links? Evidence? Come on! You are a smart person...

cough up the evidence that progressives are supporting Putin.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

48. Don't feign outrage! Open your eyes right here in GD!

And don't condescend, either. You're not cute.

Here's one of a few right here on GD:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025259568

[Luminous Animal]

53. Not seeing any defense of Putin. Perhaps you could point it out.

[LanternWaste]

197. I'm not a very clever person, and yet I've seen the implications time and again

I'm not a very clever person at all, and yet I've seen the implications time and again which screen and absolve Moscow of any wrong-doing from the Crimea annexation to the current conflict in the Ukraine, whilst railing against Ukrainian fascists, oligarchs and even Washington money being at the root of the conflict.

And should one be genuinely and sincerely curious, it's a simple search with only open eyes and a truthful heart to read the obvious context (yet lacking either open eyes of a truthful heart, chances are they will indeed, remain hidden forever).

So I'm led to believe by inference, that being unable to see these posts, one is either too lazy to engage in remedial site-searches, or too biased to read implications for what they in fact, are.

[Luminous Animal]

43. Without links this post is worthless. Got any? Of course you don't. And you won't. Pathetic..

but your job is done. Smear the left.

It is FABULOUSLY FASCINATING how unsubstantiated smears are taken as fact.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

52. Bullshit! DI said SOME on the left!

I'm on the political left, and there are indeed some on the political left who do absolutely nothing but blame this president for every fucking thing. They haven't stop in 5 years!

[Luminous Animal]

54. Still have not posted any evidence that some progressives defend Putin. Criticism of Obama's Admin

does not equal any endorsement of other Admin.

[geek tragedy]

82. Here's a tweet from one of the more prominent leftists at DU

https://mobile.twitter.com/Catherina_News/status/484479784228257792

Keep fucking w Putin u murderous Nazi-supporting fucks
He's got 20x more support than all ur hope & change baloney

pic.twitter.com/WJPPNolOj0

7:32pm - 2 Jul 14

[Drunken Irishman]

107. Absolute slime right there...

[Hekate]

108. Impressive as all get out. Especially the links below. nt

[Sunlei]

129. I kind of like twitter it shows the 'world' what kind of person they really are.

[sufrommich]

137. Is that a DUer for real ?

Wow.

[geek tragedy]

145. A very prominent DUer. nt

[sufrommich]

152. I started following her on Twitter.She's a one woman Russian

propaganda machine.

[geek tragedy]

153. note the hammer and sickle iconography. nt

[stevenleser]

162. Looks like she quit DU back in April over her Russia/Putin worship

Her profile: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=216211

Last post which was deleted but in a thread about Russia/Ukraine: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=788995

edited to fix last post link

[geek tragedy]

163. she wasn't too pleased when her Paul Craig Roberts thread got hidden.

Fascists always show their true colors eventually.

[stevenleser]

164. The stuff he writes is batshit crazy

We wrote at the same place for a while. Each article was nuttier than the next.

[geek tragedy]

165. white supremacists typically aren't that stable nt

[joshcryer]

198. Wow. Look at today's meltdown.

[geek tragedy]

199. you mean this tweet from the fascist?

#netherlands, you really need to do something about your Nazi-loving UN envoy. Absolute TRASH.

Absolutely demented.

[joshcryer]

200. Heh, keep scrolling.

Jesus.

"actively wishing for Israel's destruction" "

"Dear world, After we get rid of the Nazi regime in #Ukraine, please don't forget the #Nazi regime in Washington, DC."

"Gawd, I can't take it. May God have no mercy on your dark soul @AmbassadorPower I hope we get 2 read ur obituary soon"

"Hey WAR B***H @AmbassadorPower The world didn't see shit. Quit lying and go kill yourself"

And then the retweet from Op_Israel but I don't need to have the SS at my door for repeating her own statements.

[Number23]

187. You know good and well you need to put the word leftist in quotes for that one

Should probably do the same for prominent too, for that matter...

[geek tragedy]

190. Oh, to the people recommending this thread

she walked on water.

[imthevicar]

47. I believe in equality.

They are Both Politicians. That means when they aint kissing babies, they're stealing their lolly pops.

[Tikki]

49. No lie and his hangers on....

Tikki

[MisterP]

55. and Putin did 9-11!!!111

[Cha]

67. No, putin was behind the air missile and training that brought down the Malaysian Airplane. Stupid

reckless shit.

[MannyGoldstein]

56. Link or slink.

Let's see some examples, or else people might think you're making stuff up.

[Hekate]

60. Just take a stroll around GD, Manny, and feel the love. It's there. nt

[MannyGoldstein]

61. I guess we'll chalk that up as a "slink"

Or is evidence out of fashion?

[joshcryer]

75. Well, they tend to get banned.

The Bell Forum is where some of them scurry off to, as well as Discussionist, but they tend to be low key over at Discussionist, being that they don't want to be too friendly with the fringe right over there lest their alliances be known.

This is sort of asking to prove a negative, though. blindpig, for example, is a notorious neo-Stalinist who got banned here who is active over at The Bell Forum and I don't think there exists any instances whatsoever of him defending Obama.

One poster in particular who is popular here is posting pictures on Twitter about how Obama is a child killer. They would probably get banned if they proceeded to post even 1/100th of the stuff that they post on their Twitter on a daily basis.

It's all about hiding ones true views and you can post here. A few digs at Obama now and again is fine, as you well know. Even once a day. But start calling him a child killer neo-imperialist stalinist propagandist on a daily basis? Yeah, good luck with that.

[TBF]

194. The Bell Forum doesn't pretend to be anything it's not -

it is a communist site. I don't agree entirely with their vision, but it is a great place for anti-capitalists to find like-minded folks and a wealth of information.

Maybe instead of pointing fingers and bad-mouthing others you could try being as open about your own views?

[joshcryer]

195. My journal is extremely open.

You may feel free to read where I stand on a plethora of issues. I'm just not a hatemonger. That's really the substantive difference.

[geek tragedy]

77. Link:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Catherina_News

Plenty of posts blaming Ukraine for this atrocity, celebrating Putin's approval rating, cheering on Russian government and their thugs in East Ukraine.

[MannyGoldstein]

79. Seriously?

You had to find a *tweet* from someone who *might* be a DUer that says nothing about Putin or Russia to prove that the "Left" is running rampant on DU defending Putin.

Epic.

[geek tragedy]

80. Might? That person is a heroine to many here.

Got her own appreciation threads and everything.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113730947


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x290924

http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x489851




Her twitter account is full of love for Putin and the separatists, hatred for the US, Obama, and liberal Democrats.

See, e.g.,



https://mobile.twitter.com/Catherina_News/status/484479784228257792

Keep fucking w Putin u murderous Nazi-supporting fucks
He's got 20x more support than all ur hope & change baloney pic.twitter.com/WJPPNolOj0
7:32pm - 2 Jul 14

Either she fooled a lot of people, or there are a lot of people like her.

I was never fooled--always knew exactly what she is. Can't say I miss her 'contributions.'

Do you consider her a good progressive, Manny?

Hmmmmm?

[joshcryer]

84. They're over at Discussionist these days.

Posts are pretty obvious.

Ironically, heh, the easiest way to find the username is simply going to the Putin related tags (Putin, Russia, Ukraine)...

[geek tragedy]

85. Well , they'll never be back here.

Discussionist can have the libertarians, and the American fascists, and the Russian fascists , and the racists, and the misogynists.

Do you think Manny will answer my question?

[joshcryer]

86. The whole "right wing populism" thing boggles my mind.

It's literally the definition of fascism. Yet apparently it's actually on the rise, globally. History seems to repeat itself, it really does...

I don't see the question being answered.

[geek tragedy]

87. Populism tends to be shorthand for pissed off

white men. Not exactly something that favors the good guys.

[Hekate]

113. No, I don't think Manny will answer your question

He's just strolling around stirring the pot tonight, having a good time.

[Cali_Democrat]

102. Oh shit! Catherina has a twitter feed?

[Tom Rinaldo]

171. Yes, I agree. AND the thread title is a smear of the Democratic Left

I don't remember how many members DU has how, has it cleared 200,000? If not, it's close. The phrase "Some of" or "Some on" is essentially meaningless. 10% is "some of", 1% is "some of", .0001% is "some of".

I could agree with the phrase "A few on the Left have defended Putin etc..." because that is true. I'm on "the Left" and I don't, and I personally don't know anyone left of center who is defending Putin, though I know there are some of those folks out there in the non virtual world. There are some of EVERY kind of folk out there somewhere, and the more generally marginalized one's view tends to be, the more loudly he or she tends to shout it, have you ever noticed that dynamic? I sure have across the board on all kinds of issues.

Here is a valuable rule of thumb. If someone is pretending to be something that they are not on a conservative discussion board, they will pose as a holier than thou right winger. They sure as hell won't say they are on the left if they are trying to stir us a controversy among conservatives. And on a progressive discussion board the same holds in reverse. Intentional shit stirrers on a place like DU will identify as strong progressives and the only true believers. That often works because there are also members of discussion boards who genuinely hold similar views. The subtle difference is that sincere posters tend to be a little more nuanced over the long haul the way people really are when they talk about what is important to them. People who gravitate toward sowing dissension have an uncanny knack of almost always pissing most people off.

[geek tragedy]

175. what you say is very true. the thread would be much better stated as "some so-called members of the

left"

[cui bono]

212. That same description can be used against Obama apologists as well.

The ones who support the NSA spying, who don't think anything is wrong with putting Wall Street in the White House, who defended chained CPI... no one who is really left is for any of that.

[geek tragedy]

213. that you choose to equate Obama supporters with supporters of a fascist oligarchical dictator

indicates that a rational conversation with you on this is not likely

last word is yours

[cui bono]

215. LOL. Way to completely miss the point. But I suspect you are purposely misconstruing what I said

in an attempt (lame as it may be) to smear me. It won't work on anyone other than those who can't think for themselves though.

You tried this before and you didn't succeed. Is it your mission to completely misrepresent everything I say?

Please, if you can, illustrate how I did what you claim. Lay it out, better than you did the last time you tried this silly little game. You did add a new twist, the "last word is yours" trick. If you think that means you "won" whatever it is you think you can win from this odd behavior, you didn't.

[Barack_America]

89. This one was a gem.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023653837

[Warren Stupidity]

181. Actually it is a gem, but not for the reasons you think.

It is an example of the same stupid ass reactionary bullshit as evidenced here in this op. Any failure to join the hate or rally around the flag is denounced. Pressinger is dismissed as a "putin lover", as is everyone else here who refuses to tow the Official Line, despite the fact that he obviously is not a fan of Putin. All he said was that Putin's op ed made some reasonable points about US hypocrisy in foreign policy. We are hypocrites who kill innocents with abandon, invade foreign countries as we see fit, and denounce others for doing similar things. We don't give a shit what other nations think or what the finer points of our obligations under international law are, because we have 10x the military force as anyone else and we are willing to use it. We are the bully on the block. We will kick anyone's ass we want, as long as they don't have nukes.

[zeemike]

70. That is a nice compilation of the talking points.

And you got it on your third post...Yep we are over run with libertarians who have been here for years just waiting for the chance to work their evil scheme.

You fit real well in this thread.

[SidDithers]

59. DU rec...nt

Sid

[2banon]

68. propagating fantasies today are ya? I'm a Leftist, I've never defended Putin and no one I know has.

[Kaleva]

131. If the OP doesn't apply to you, why get upset?

And as you only personally know a very tiny fraction of leftists, that sample isn't big enough to taken seriously.

[2banon]

155. Upset? No. Frustrated by reactionaries engaged in Left Bashing, Yep.

Sick of it in fact. But even more than that, it's demoralizing to see so much of it within our "tribe". It doesn't bode well for the future of our country or this party.

[Rex]

71. IKR!?

Wazupwithdat!?

[pa28]

73. Is it "some" on the left or "good amount"?

Maybe you'll share your secret list of names with us so we can identify this insidious leftist threat.

[renegade000]

74. There was an article in GD earlier...

that compared the current state of America with the Weimar Republic, which I thought was a tad overblown, but nonetheless an interesting juxtaposition to chew on.

In the vein of further overblown comparisons with the Weimar Republic, you know who the group you're describing remind me of in that tragedy? The KPD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPD).

Yup, the "let's spend most of our efforts attacking the center-left parties of the Weimar Republic as being a bunch of crypto-fascists/crypto-corporatists" party until, "oh wait, we didn't know the right-wing was THIS powerful...guys...GUYS?!?!" Yup, too late, sorry, better luck next time. Funnily enough, they trended toward Stalinism as he gained influence, because you know, authoritarian, imperialist Russian leaders with cults of personality are awesome and all.

[DeSwiss]

76. ''...the murderous bigot from Russia?''

It's kids and babies.

- Right.

[McCamy Taylor]

81. Because Putin is so cute without a shirt?

I think we have lower standards for someone else's president.

[Tarheel_Dem]

88. It's ironic-al, ain't it?

[machiavelliisalive]

91. Or maybe people might try to use empathy instead of stereotypes?

There seems to be a lot of infighting going on and it is kind of an agressiveness that is surprising to see on a liberal site?

Consider this piece, which as an antiwar person who sees the myopic "putin vs" narrative as actually keeping everyone from calming the situation seems to sum up the anti-war position and philosophy well. This viewpoint is not pro or anti Obama (or other politician)
as it seems to be mistaken for when tensions rise.

Published on Friday, July 18, 2014 by Common Dreams
Malaysia Airlines Flight 17: The Problem Isn’t Conflict, It’s Violent Conflict Management
by Erin Niemela

www.commondreams.org/view/2014/07/18

In 2014, the growing list of suffering by violent conflict management includes (but is not limited to): more than 10,000 murders and kidnappings in Nigeria, civil war in Syria, escalated terrorism in Iraq, an asymmetrical bombardment in Gaza, and now somebody, some faction, some government shot down a Malaysia Airlines jet and killed 295 human beings. The cause of the tragedy – a missile - confirmed by a U.S. official, will guide at least one week of media coverage. We’ll bicker and brood about who done it, how and why until the next tragedy and the next and the next. All the while, we’ll ignore the underlying assumption: that violence is natural, inevitable and an acceptable method for problem solving – so long as it’s done by our guys with our weapons on their guys and their ground.

I don’t care who did it. I care that the victims and their families find justice – at least knowing the absolute truth and receiving reparations and support. But, I don’t care who’s to blame, what weapons they used, which countries/leaders are allies/enemies, who hates Malaysians, Americans, Russians, Ukrainians or any of the typical issues fueling analyses from political science talking heads on mainstream media. There’s only one most important problem anyone should care to address: All violence, from state to non-state to domestic varieties, all weapons, from small arms to nuclear bombs, and all industries profiting from human violence, from manufacturers at every level to dealers of every “legal” degree, have only ever caused more violence, war, destruction and suffering all over the world. This global pro-violence worldview will shoot us all down from the sky unless we – as international citizens of rational mind – reject the outdated, illogical idea that violence is an acceptable, or possible, means for achieving peace.

Let’s finally start listening to and joining with the voices of positive peace – defined by my mentor and dear friend Tom Hastings, author and professor of conflict resolution, as: “peace and justice by peaceable means.” World Beyond War, a nonviolent international movement to abolish war and build a truly sustainable global peace, has a plan in which we can all participate. Physicians for Social Responsibility have been working for more than 50 years on campaigns to ban nuclear weapons, reverse or mitigate climate change (a current cause of violent conflict in some areas – especially when violence is the preferred method of conflict management choice) and eliminate toxic waste that violently threatens our very existence on Earth. Online university, media service, research institute and peace development network Transcend International, founded by Prof. Dr. Johan Galtung, father of Peace and Conflict studies, aims to educate the global public on current peace and conflict research and peacebuilding practices, including peace journalism, that will create a positive-peace world. There is also the United States Institute for Peace (can you believe it?!), established by Congress to “increase the nation’s capacity” to use nonviolent conflict management methods. USIP had its funding completely eliminated and reinstated between February and April 2011 – a flagrant message to our peacebuilders that pro-violence politicians can and will cut you – if we let them.

[Hekate]

120. Good grief. Well....

Welcome to DU.

[geek tragedy]

158. I have no empathy for the fascists here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5262221

[cali]

103. horse shit. just like the op you're riffing off. A huge maloderous pile of it.

I have no use for Putin. Alas, President Obama sides with corporate interests over people and the environment more often than not, so I don't spend a lot of time defending him. TPP. Opening the Atlantic seaboard for gas and oil exploration, fracking. do defend all that.

[Cali_Democrat]

104. This kind of reminds me of the Michele Catalano incident

People jump to conclusions without waiting for the facts and they end up looking foolish.

It's unfortunate when that happens.

[cali]

105. bwahahahaha. yeah. it's not a fact that the administration announced it was

opening the eastern seaboard for exploration. It's not a fact that the President has strongly supported and PUSHED the TPP. Read his own words. It's not a fact that the President supports fracking and expanding it. Read his own words.

Your blind defense of your adored one, is sad.

[Cali_Democrat]

106. Have you even seen the TPP?

You're getting outraged over something you haven't even seen yet. I'm still waiting for Obama to attack Syria and cut Social Security.

Two words: Michele Catalano.

Lesson not learned I suppose....

[Drunken Irishman]

109. Right.

https://twitter.com/Catherina_News/status/484479784228257792

It doesn't exist. Nope.

There is a growing amount of leftists who hate Obama so much they'll rally behind a bigot murderer like Putin.

[joshcryer]

126. You're the rare exception.

You don't fawn over anyone.

edit: alternatively, you hate everyone.

[TBF]

133. Many of us don't trust oligarchs of any stripe.

We stand with the ordinary people who are caught in the cross-fire - those peeling human remains from their vegetable gardens, the children in Gaza who have been brought up in cages, and the children in South America running from drug violence.

We hold no solidarity with murderous leaders concerned only with power and theft of resources.

[2banon]

156. Hear, Here!

good post.

[Orsino]

140. They aren't on the left. n/t

[snooper2]

143. it's only like 10 or 12 total, but they sure do like to POST POST POST

LOL

[PowerToThePeople]

146. Obama needs to up his game.

What can Obama ride shirtless to beat this?



Time for a DU brainstorm session.

[stevenleser]

154. Going to be hard to beat that since the bear is their national symbol. Unless...

Someone can photoshop a picture of an angry eagle in flight, make it 30 feet long and have Obama riding it?

[Hekate]

182. Sounds like a job for Steven Colbert!

[BumRushDaShow]

184. Pootie couldn't handle an ocean

[6000eliot]

147. I think it's because he's coddling their boyfriend.

[WilliamPitt]

159. Tall in the running for Most Useless Thread Of The Year

[stupidicus]

161. this reeks like rightwingnuts support of voter ID laws

a whine in search of a bottle

I suppose it's understandable though, given the constant search by those drunk on anger from taking personally the many justified criticisms their dear leader has suffered through around here.

It's also very rightwing-like based on the lack of liberal tolerance so many pay lip servive to around here, and also in the way a few individuals are used to smear others you can't otherwise really assail except by noting their lack of hero worship.

ANd what figure can be assigned to your "good amount" for progressives, etc, either in concrete numbers or proportionallly?

Oh that's right, you don't have an argument here, just a baseless smear.

[Pisces]

172. It is amazing that it comes from the same group every time.

[BeyondGeography]

177. And they're just about all hiding from you right now

Well done.

[awoke_in_2003]

180. Putin is a thug in a cheap suit...

always has been, always will be.

[heaven05]

185. so very true

I made that mistake, not in not defending Obama, I did, but thinking Putin, early on in this conflict was on the up and up in this situation. I was so wrong. He is a thug with no soul or conscience. May 295 innocent souls damn him into eternity.

[truebluegreen]

188. What a load of bull puckey.

[GeorgeGist]

189. A million times more ...

but you can't cite a single example.

To the trash, Sir.

[JEB]

192. There are some who call themselves Democrats that rush to judgement and

seem anxious for war.

[Tom Rinaldo]

201. You know, some moderate Democrats are registered sex offenders

That's the way it works with the word "some", it is remarkably flexible. Could be less than 1%, could be more than 99%, either way one can always safely say "some".

[Xyzse]

204. People are complex, but my simplest explanation of that is the audience.

Think about it. In general, here, people tend to support the President, but some feel like it goes overboard in ways. So they play counterpoint. Some people also feel a bit disappointed in him, for the feeling that he didn't fight harder, where some feel betrayed by Obama. Can't really help it sometimes, even when one can point out the positives, people tend to dwell on negatives, particularly when they believed at some point that he was supposed to be on their side.

Conversely, when people bash on one person constantly, like someone like Putin, then once again they have to play devil's advocate.
In other forums, and in real life more likely than not they will defend Obama from criticism, particularly against a misinformed Republican.

I don't see it as being a problem as long as matters are civil. It is always good to see another side to things.

[Stellar]

209. How can you tell if they're on the left?

Those that defend Putin certainly were the same one out to get Putin 'The Nobel Peace Prize'.....just like the rest of their Republic0n party, since they love him so.

[Puzzledtraveller]

211. Otra vez?

[Cha]

214. They can have fucking fascist putin.. I'll take President Obama..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/index.php