Why are the GOP the stupid ones when they have us proclaiming the importance of lower SS taxes?

[dkf]

This may be a short term political win, but in the long term isn't this right where they want us? I'm not getting how we eventually raise the taxes back up as I don't see future improvements significant enough for the average joe to suddenly declare he feels financially healthy enough to be paying more taxes.

[Laelth]

1. You're right, of course.

But I'll take the short-term win.

Neither party wants to end the payroll tax holiday, really. Better that Democrats get credit for it. I don't see it going away.

-Laelth

[dkf]

3. If you have everyone for proclaiming why they need their extra $40

Then it does look to me like we'll never be able to get rid of it

[bigtree]

4. you know very well that it's just a temporary incentive

like the 'Making Work Pay' incentive which expired in 2010, or the EITC. None of the hysteria that you're promoting here is planned or has happened. The tax cut will eventually be replaced with another incentive, if still needed, to get money back into folk's hands.

Ideally, the wealthier should pay more. That would increase revenue into the program while limiting the burden on the middle class. You pose this fearful proposition as if there was no defense at all against some bullshit political argument. It's simply not credible or realistic from any number of angle that this temporary cut (extended temporarily) threatens Social Security. It doesn't matter how many weak political arguments you can conjure.

[dkf]

7. I used to think it was a temporary incentive...

Until I saw your thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100252446

Taking all those uses into account how do you take that tax cut back

[bigtree]

9. improved economy

My personal ideal: an initiative to make the wealthy contribute more.

An improved economy will increase revenue and increase money going into SS. This tax incentive will help that economic recovery along.

[dkf]

11. That is why the debate had to be kept at a macro level.

But the WH is bringing it down to the personal level, ie you need that money to pay for your child's co-pay or lunch. Now taking away that tax cut is personal.

I think they are wandering into politically dangerous territory here but maybe it's just me.

[hfojvt]

2. they aren't. They have us fighting them to basically pass a Republican policy.

And because Obama has spent six months saying it will be a tax increase if they are allowed to expire, it is pretty clear they can never be allowed to expire.

[wiggs]

5. Fine line...but the intent of the dems is to lower payroll taxes for stimulative effects and

make up the SS shortfall with other revenues. The past tax holiday was paid for by general fund reimbursements so there was no SS impact.

I don't like the precedent of the general fund paying for SS...makes it more vulnerable. But if it's temporary I'm down with it. OR...if allowing it to go back to original rates proves too burdensome and too politically charged next year, THAT'S when you pull out alternative revenue generating solutions like raising the cap on taxable income and kill two bird with one stone...continue to keep payroll taxes low for bottom 10% and then provide additional revenue to keep benefits in place after 2037.

Just like all these things, dem messaging needs to be up to the task of the tactic. And we're not off on the right foot to begin with because most people believe SS is bankrupt or in serious trouble, when it is not. You have to get the basic issue and the fundamentals right to begin with otherwise shifting public opinion down the road is all the harder.

[vi5]

6. They're not the stupid ones...

They know exactly what they are doing and they are doing it because elected Democrats continue to let them do it and continue to play into their hands and continue to fight battles on the terms dictated by Republicans.

And if you don't think they'e going to be playing clips of Obama calling the expiration of this cut a "tax increase" when it comes time for the Bush cuts to expire then as the cliche goes, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

[ProSense]

8. No,

"And if you don't think they'e going to be playing clips of Obama calling the expiration of this cut a "tax increase" when it comes time for the Bush cuts to expire then as the cliche goes, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you."

...they're the stupid ones, and the tax cuts expire two months after the 2012 election.

Republicans don't care about Social Security so anything they're saying now is because they're backed into a corner.

I mean, no one believes that they killed the Senate bill because they're trying to protect Social Security.

[vi5]

10. I never said that they wanted to protect SS...

But we(democrats) supposedly do. So why we're all clamoring for cutting the tax that helps pay for social security is a little bit confusing.

And just because the cuts expire 2 months after the election doesn't mean the Republicans won't start talking about them during the 2011 election. And when they do they'll play the clips of Obama calling the expiration of tax cuts a "tax increase".

Does anyone honestly think that the expiration of the Bush cuts isn't going to come up until after the election and not during? If so.......how cute. Really?

[Uncle Joe]

12. 1. It serves to neutralize the GOP meme against Democrats of being nothing but supporters

of tax and spend.

2. The average Joe will never feel financially healthy enough to be paying more taxes so long as the Republicans control the government or it's divided enough to give Blue Dogs enough power to side with Republicans in order to thwart desperately needed Progessive/Liberal/Libertarian policies that could move the nation forward.

3.The Democratic Party must recapture its' greatest legacy; that being the "Party of the People" and let the Republicans look out for the 1% that's the only way the Democratic Party will ever be able to correct deep structural dysfunctions.

In order to rectify #2, the Democrats must go for the kill, if the Republican Party is profusely bleeding from a gushing wound, the Democrats need to feed it aspirin.

Thanks for the thread, dkf.

P.S. A major word of caution, if the Democratic Party gains enough power to overcome Republican Obstructionism, they must carry through with major liberal/progressive tax reform; ie: raising taxes on the megawealthy and ending corporate welfare, while protecting the 99% or the political and policy cost will be extremely high.

[RC]

13. The Payroll Tax Cut opens a door between the General Fund and the totally separately taxed fund for

Social Security.

A door that was not even there before. That is the real reason this particular tax cut was set up as it was in the first place, to establish that connecting door.
Secondary to that is the propaganda of giving people a little extra money. That was to sell the tax cut and to make it harder to rescind. Those that need the money the most, get the least and vice versa. And down the road that is just that much less money to pay out to retirees. The replacement funds from the general fund is a smoke screen, a Trojan Horse, if you will. The small amount each tax payer gets is too small to do much for any recovery. All it will do is make Christmas revenues look a little better, so they can say "Hey look we are still on the course to recovery". The reality will be 'not so much'.

People should be concerned about taking money from a broken general fund to pay for Social Security paychecks. How long would we expect that to continue?

Most people will not connect the dots, let alone look far enough down the road to if/when the Republicans have full control of Congress again and they will balance the budget with their short sighted and wrong headed “if it gets spent here, we have to cut there” mentality.

The cuts will come from Social Security because it is now “funded” from the General Fund. Never mind most of it is still not, the perception put out by our greedy overlords, will be Social Security is killing any balanced budget and will have to be cut or eliminated.

And that is why the Payroll Tax Cut is wrong from the get-go. We are being had again people.