If irony had a name it would be Michael Moore.

[NM_Birder]

Makes a fortune, owns 9 homes, travels the world, CHARGES to speak out against capitalism and the unfairness of the "American dream"

I couldn't be more inspired if he flew a private jet from mansion to mansion, condemning my ugly waste of energy.

[LexVegas]

1. Does he speak out about capitalism?

I think it is a little more nuanced than that.

[calimary]

3. It IS a little more nuanced than that.

Otherwise hey, let's all dump on Al Gore because he built a big house...

NEVER MIND his overriding message, and the activism, and the film, and the acclaim and broader attention it brought to the issue, and the awareness it built, and ...

Shall I go on?

[LordGlenconner]

7. Nuance is lost on the ideological purity crowd

That one could be wealthy, while also helping or advocating for those who are not wealthy, is a real mind fuck for some.

[arcane1]

44. Some brains just can't handle all that thinking at one time

Sad but true.

[Squinch]

89. I suspect this has less to do with ideological purity than provocation.

[H2O Man]

98. "

[sabrina 1]

47. He speaks out against CORRUPTION, Big Banks etc. Never heard him attack

'capitalism' only 'predatory capitalism' which is why this Right Wing talking point re MM has never had any traction, with intelligent people that is, this comes directly from Fox and Limbaugh, gobbled up an repeated as might be expected, by that audience.

[sabrina 1]

53. Yes, did you see it? Anyone who did knows his pov on the subject. Unless they are from

Faux's audience, so propagandized they are no longer able to think, at all.

Capitalism, A Love Story, was about the financial collapse due to Corruption of Capitalism by Corrupt Banks. It was not an attack on capitalism.

[sabrina 1]

58. Only to ignorant people on the far right in my experience. Even normal conservatives

know that to prevent corruption there is a need for some regulations. In fact I have read many criticisms from conservatives about bailing out corrupt bankers, themselves stating that 'this is not Capitalism' which in their view means, you have the opportunity to succeed or fail. If you fail you fail, period. They have described both the Bush and Obama bailouts as corporate welfare which is a corruption of Capitalism. MM agrees.

[sendero]

93. If fact all of the important dominoes..

.... Glass-Stegall, the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, NAFTA, "welfare reform" ALL happened on his watch, most with his active participation.

If Bill Clinton is a friend to the middle class who needs enemies?

And folks want to elect his evil twin HRC. No thanks.

[sabrina 1]

107. Yes, he did. We know that now, part of the Corporate Wing that has taken over

the party. Which we know now and which is why since we know, are not going to facilitate again.

[NCTraveler]

2. No one will hit perfection.

We all have some hypocrisy in our lives. Overall, anything bad about MM is far outweighed by the good in his message.

[Cooley Hurd]

5. +1000000!

[Dreamer Tatum]

10. Yes, some people miss it by 8 houses and private jets.

Other people come a little closer to the mark.

[NCTraveler]

14. And others are a little further from the mark. nt.

[Dreamer Tatum]

17. Like Moore, for example. nt

[NCTraveler]

23. That doesn't make sense.

How could More be further when he was who you were referencing? Crazy logic. The lack of logic in that reply shows that you simply want to take a shot.

[stevenleser]

56. Occupy had it right, this poster has it wrong. The 1% should not be regarded as the enemy

The focus of our outrage should be on policies that benefit the 1% at the expense of the 99%.

FDR was a very wealthy man. It doesnt matter how much money someone has, what matters is the things they do and the things for which they advocate.

[ChazII]

100. Thank you for your answer and your common sense. n/t

[sabrina 1]

50. You're aware that this is an old Right Wing/Fox/Limbaugh talking point now brought to DU

re MM. MM has never attacked capitalism, btw. You seem to be buying this right wing talking point, which like all right wing talking points deserve all the credibility they deserve, if you know what I mean.

MM has attacked Predatory Capitalism, he has attacked CORRUPTION, the kind that led to the Global Financial collapse of the world's economies.

He has attacked the Corporate Welfare for Corrupt Banks used to bail themselves out and has stated correctly that this is NOT CAPITALISM.

He has NEVER attacked anyone who owns multiple homes, boats, autos etc WHO EARNED THEM HONESTLY.

You should be very careful about playing into Limbaugh talking points. THis particular one has been around since he made Fahrenheit 9/11.

And we know for sure now, thanks to Whistle Blower Wendell Potter who himself participated in the smear campaign, this being part of it, against Michael Moore as the Private Health Ins Corps tried to STOP his documentary SICKO from being shown to the American people.

This is a particularly vile right wing, paid for, attack on MM which I assumed all DUers at least, were aware of.

[CreekDog]

74. Michael Moore's to the left of you

and is a better advocate for liberal policies too!

[Kingofalldems]

109. Democrats are allowed to make money.

Seriously, why would you attack a Democrat for making money?

[Ken Burch]

115. if this was 1968, would you be calling Bobby Kennedy a hypocrite, too? n/t.

[LanternWaste]

61. What then is the precise measure of the mark, and on what objective measure is that sum based on?

What then is the precise measure of the mark, and on what objective measure is that sum based on?

[Kingofalldems]

83. What Democrat do you admire?

By the way, the man seeks to reform capitalism not destroy it.

[calimary]

12. NOBODY is completely perfect.

So should I turn my back on Al Gore then? Should I NOT vote for the Democrat in whatever race it is, because he or she is not ABSOLUTELY FUCKING PERFECT? Well, if I do, hey, let's allow the republi-CON in, instead, and see how well THAT works! Let's SEND a MESSAGE!!!!!!

Yeah THAT'LL work. That'll work JUST FUCKING GREAT. The only "message" you wind up sending is the one that answers back with a nice big hearty "Thanks, CHUMP!" from the bad guy - who slithers into power because YOU just HAD to send that ever-lovin' damned stupid idiotic unrealistic pie-in-the-sky "MESSAGE"!!!!

[NCTraveler]

16. Sing it from the rooftops. nt.

[nolabear]

66. You are batting 1000 today.

I don't even have to post anything but "What SHE said!"

[daleanime]

4. Background.....

just some times it's important where some one comes from....

[whatchamacallit]

6. Ah... another new poster trots out an old RW chestnut

Enjoy your stay.

[Laelth]

28. Spot on. n/t

-Laelth

[el_bryanto]

37. That was my reaction as well. nt

[Old and In the Way]

104. I'd bet the farm that this poster is 'vader' on Disussionist.

Vader started the exact same post there the other day. He is pure con.

[whatchamacallit]

106. Hmm...

[Gothmog]

114. You may be right

[CBGLuthier]

8. What have you done to make the world a better place?

Why is he not allowed to make money?

When I met him he seemed decent enough and I did not pay a penny for the privilege. He was still editing Bowling for Columbine and while screening some of it he was kind enough to warn us there was some footage of the Oklahoma City bombing in case we did not want to see it.

Right while we were talking to him some asshole came up and had a picture taken of him and Moore while he was holding a sign that said, this jackass thinks i want to talk to him.

Was that you?

BTW, nice attempt at an Al Gore dig. Lame and old and heard it before.

Go change the world or STFU!

[QC]

9. And yet another standard right wing talking point appears on DU.

Next news flash: Al Gore says he invented the Internet! What a doofus!

[Squinch]

91. He swings! He misses! He runs away!

[conservaphobe]

11. Don't always agree with Michael Moore, but

speaking out against a system from which you have benefited takes a lot of character.

His heart is always in the right place, even when he's wrong.

[joeybee12]

13. Thanks for posting, but you forgot the link...

to Fox News from which you got this "wisdom"

[NuclearDem]

15. I'll tell you the same thing I (probably) told you on Discussionist:

But at any rate, there's nothing necessarily wrong with having wealth.

The problem is how one gets that wealth.

Moore and most progressives go after assholes that made their money not paying their employees a living wage, selling war, destroying the environment, kicking people out of their homes, leaving them sick, and stealing their retirements and life savings.

Moore made some goddamn movies.

Bit of a difference between those.

http://www.discussionist.com/?com=view_post&forum=1015&pid=143731

Thanks for playing.

[Gothmog]

52. That thread is amusing

Al Gore and Warren Buffett are good democrats and have made some money. Why is this a sin?

[beerandjesus]

18. Um, irony *does* have a name.

It's "irony".

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

19. .

.

[conservaphobe]

22. LOL

[Starry Messenger]

29. <3

[calimary]

20. About that "makes a fortune" part -

GOOD. I say "GOOD!" I say "MORE, please!" I say - "hmmm... Michael Moore is making a fortune? FANTASTIC!!!! So much the BETTER!!! It's about time one of the Good Guys got rich! What HE does with HIS money helps all the rest of us. Opens more eyes. Gets more facts and truth and reality out there into the national mindset and the national dialogue. Changes the calculus and tips the scales a little more toward OUR side. Maybe that "makes a fortune" part means he'll make more movies that further the agenda WE want to see furthered. Maybe that "makes a fortune" part will blow a bigger hole in the PNAC machinery. Maybe that "makes a fortune" part will produce another movie that brings the corporate pirates and pillagers further to their knees, or wises more people up to Wall Street's crimes and thefts, or blows not the whistle but the air-raid siren on more insurance industry fraud and chicanery."

Frankly I don't see how that's a bad thing. I WANT people like Michael Moore to get rich. Because what he does with that money is directly and profoundly beneficial to all the rest of us.

[lame54]

21. Not this shit again

[tridim]

24. Yes, that is how Republicans criticize Moore.

If that doesn't work, just call him fat.

[hlthe2b]

25. He should be more like the Koch Brothers and the other 1%--scheming daily to screw the rest of us

Right, Birder?

[Ellipsis]

26. what the fuck have you done to criticize anybody....

...but bitch on a chat site about someone who's opened more then few peoples eyes.

[xchrom]

27. +1

[Capt. Obvious]

30. You left out that he's fat

[ChisolmTrailDem]

31. So, of all the ironies ever witnessed and ever to be witnessed, you chose

to name it "Michael Moore"?

Wow.

[elleng]

32. so you complain about success, eh?

makes sense

[missingthebigdog]

33. Have you reduced your possessions

And lifestyle to only what is absolutely essential for you to live?
Or would you draw the line somewhere else? Where? At what point do you have too much to be allowed to have an opinion?

[edhopper]

34. And thinks the rich

(including himself) should pay more taxes. Workers should be Unionized and get Universal Healthcare. The banks should be made accountable, we need have stricter gun laws and we should be striving for clean energy.

He made good and important movies people wanted to see about subjects that needed to be addressed. and made a lot of money doing it. Who fucking cares what he buys with it?

A lot of very liberal people in Hollywood, who make a lot of fucking money and own multiple homes support and help the Democrats, should we shun them as well.

How many homes does Matt Daimon or Sean Penn or Brad and Angelina or David Geffen own?

Who the fuck cares?

[LanternWaste]

35. Renting one apartment, travelling only to the neighboring towns, and charging to do free-lance...

Renting one apartment, travelling only to the neighboring towns, and charging to do free-lance writing makes my name 'irony' to the subsistence farmer living in Rwanda if we remain consistent to your charges. So maybe you and I should also deny ourselves speaking out against unregulated capitalism too...

[senseandsensibility]

36. And what does he do with his money and power?

Does he use it to keep working people down? Your post is really lame, and welcome to DU.

[SalviaBlue]

38. Perfect parroting of a right-wing meme.

[Sheepshank]

39. DAMN...and I'd bet he's avoiding taxes by hoarding off shore too...

please hurry and provide your links to this outrageous affront to humanity.

[HughBeaumont]

40. Small wonder why I won't join Discussionist . . . .

If this sort of five-years-old wingnut tripe rules the roost over there, I'd just as soon as not engage.

[arcane1]

41. Because "capitalism" is just this one thing, with one form, and it's either 100% good or 100% bad?

Moore provides products and services that people willingly spend their money on. Nothing wrong with that.

Nice try, though.

[Kelvin Mace]

42. So, got any proof to back up these claims?

[corkhead]

43. Agreed, he should give up all of his worldly possessions before he is allowed to speak his mind.

[sabrina 1]

45. Right wing talking points have a name, right wing talking points. Lol, you are bringing

right wing talking re MM HERE? That is funny.

Btw, MM doesn't talk about it, but he has helped more people than any right wing moron who has attacked him.

[Bluenorthwest]

46. So the man makes money because a film that could have destroyed him was a hit Farhenheit 9-11

and your complaint is that the film was a hit? You understand his every career choice was show biz poison and the only irony present is that he got rich and famous instead of being a broke docu maker in Detroit.

[TeamPooka]

48. A newbie starting threads with RW troll talking points? Blocked. Goodbye.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

49. why is that ironic? did he make this money denying people health care?

awarding war contracts to his buddies? firing workers from a plant and moving the plant to mexico?

in what way is this ironic?

[Al Carroll]

54. What Moore actually does with his money

In his own words.

--------
http://reason.com/blog/2011/10/28/michael-moore-me-and-my-millio
He describes in rather minute detail what he did with the $3 million he made when he sold the rights of Roger & Me to Warner Bros.

He says:


1. I would first pay all my taxes. I told the guy who did my 1040 not to declare any deductions other than the mortgage and to pay the full federal, state and city tax rate. I proudly contributed nearly 1 million dollars for the privilege of being a citizen of this great country.

2. Of the remaining $2 million, I decided to divide it up the way I once heard the folksinger/activist Harry Chapin tell me how he lived: "One for me, one for the other guy." So I took half the money -- $1 million -- and established a foundation to give it all away.

3. The remaining million went like this: I paid off all my debts, paid off the debts of some friends and family members, bought my parents a new refrigerator, set up college funds for our nieces and nephews, helped rebuild a black church that had been burned down in Flint, gave out a thousand turkeys at Thanksgiving, bought filmmaking equipment to send to the Vietnamese (my own personal reparations for a country we had ravaged), annually bought 10,000 toys to give to Toys for Tots at Christmas, got myself a new American-made Honda, and took out a mortgage on an apartment above a Baby Gap in New York City.
-------

Clearly "evil" and "hypocritical."

But then again the OP is clearly a troll since he hasn't written again in his own thread.

[Laffy Kat]

57. He never claimed to be opposed to capitalism.

Don't want to defend him too much, but in all fairness he's always admitted to enjoying his success. He's never tried to hide anything. No vow of poverty from that Flint, Michigan man.

[CrispyQ]

59. I believe that "Fahrenheit 911"

opened a lot of people's eyes as to what the Bush administration was really about, how he got into office, how they ignored the previous admin's warnings & for that I am eternally grateful. I live in a liberal area & even here it was not popular to question the Bush admin & speak out against them. It was 'unpatriotic.' Then F/911 hit the theaters & there was a change. I saw it & felt it. Thank you Michael Moore!

[dembotoz]

60. do not remember taking a vow of poverty when i became a progressive dem

did i miss that page in the paperwork-- i wonder

this post has take a great deal of restraint on my part.
having spent time on a number of juries now i know i have to watch my step while expressing
what i feel is a ........

[Orsino]

62. OP's journal shows a bit of a pattern. n/t

[Hassin Bin Sober]

64. Screw pattern. That journal is a detailed road map.

[ieoeja]

63. NM Birder criticizing a Liberal. Color me not shocked.

How has this guy managed to avoid a MIRT?

[laundry_queen]

73. +1 nt

[blm]

65. Please cite your source for claim Moore speaks AGAINST the American dream and capitalism.

If you can you should add those source links to your post, if not, you should rewrite your post as YOUR opinion.

[trumad]

67. LOL---

I know where this is coming from. I was sitting in a dentist office yesterday and saw a segment discussing this very topic.

Dude---Turn off Fox.

[Nye Bevan]

68. He's earned his money honestly, and has every right to buy 9 houses,

if that's what he chooses to spend it on.

[Paladin]

69. And if Moore gave away all his money and possessions this afternoon......

....you'd love and respect him, right?

No, I didn't think so.

[Armstead]

70. Ye I saw that on FOX NEWS too. It is bullshit there and its bullshit here.

[clarice]

71. Is irony the opposite of wrinkly? nt

[Kingofalldems]

84. Don't like Moore either huh?

[Rex]

85. The hatred over his wealth...something I would expect NOT to see here.

Since it seems right out of a Foxnews report.

[Kingofalldems]

87. Repubs are afraid of Moore and attack anything about him.

[Rex]

90. Sad. Yet they listen to Rush lie his ass off all day long and worship at his feet.

They are very sick people.

[LanternWaste]

95. I imagine there's a mirror on the wall, yes?

I imagine there's a mirror on the wall, yes?

[Ellipsis]

72. *SPANKED*

[deaniac21]

75. From horse's mouth

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2009/09/24/lkl.moore.long.cnn

[bluestateguy]

77. And he voted for Nader in 2000

He probably wanted that Bush tax cut.

[Rex]

86. And no doubt he was leading the swiftboating charge against JK in 2004.

Helping Rove tamper with votes in Ohio.

[LanternWaste]

97. No doubt, the very same half-witted and sub-literate believe he invented hanging chad, too.

No doubt, the very same half-witted and sub-literate believe he invented hanging chad, too.

[Rex]

99. Or the Internets.

[bluestateguy]

120. You said it, not me

I was merely asserting the factual point that as an upper income American, he received a nice tax cut from Bush, the president he helped to elect by voting for Nader.

[Rex]

78. Wow, so you hate the wealthy...heard about people like you on DU.

Didn't believe it...had to see it for my very own eyes. How sad.

[stevenleser]

80. There are more. Including a poster where the last three letters of their screen name is another name

for Salmon.

[Rex]

82. Other DUrs tell me these things, I just don't believe it

then I see it with my own two eyes...boy was I wrong. I though we were better than that on DU.

[JaneyVee]

79. I don't see the irony. If anything...

Its the wealthy who speak about this issue that we should be listening to. He's in the 1% and knows the inside scoop on how the game is rigged from taxes to Wall St.

[Cal Carpenter]

81. Uh, capitalism is a *system*, not a lifestyle choice

And I don't think of Michael Moore as being totally anti-capitalist anyway.

But regardless, there is virtually no way to live within society without participating in the capitalist system -- regardless of one's opinions or ideology. Particularly if one wants to have an impact on the system and work with other people.

I'm not really sure what irony has to do with this. Some people are hypocrites or sellouts or whatever, but imho Michael Moore is pretty low on that list.

[pa28]

88. We need wealthy people who recognize the system is unfair. Not more Republicans.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

92. Gee, I thought conservatives ADMIRED people who got rich on the basis of their talents

Did you know that he also gives a lot of his money away?

[tenderfoot]

94. Can you cite an instance where Moore whined about having to pay higher taxes?

Until you do... STFU about Moore, Warren Buffet, JK Rowling and the rest.

[NYC Liberal]

96. How is it ironic? He's done well under the system but he speaks out for those who have been crushed

by it. He never said being rich was bad

[Gidney N Cloyd]

101. Post & Run Away.

Wish we had a rule against that. Like 25 replies to an OP and you're locked out until you either come back and reply in the thread or self-delete.

[gratuitous]

102. Someone addressed this very point many years ago

No matter what the message, it's inconvenient for someone. But rather than argue against the message, it's easier to argue against the messenger. To-wit from the 11th chapter of the gospel according to Matthew:

18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”

As long as someone doesn't want to hear the message, but has no counterargument, the preferred method is to find fault - real or imagined - with the messenger.

[Tarheel_Dem]

103. WTF???

[TBF]

105. Psssstttt .. you signed into the wrong site by mistake.

I think you meant to go here: http://www.discussionist.com/101415107

[Old and In the Way]

110. Yes, this would be Vader.

Not one of the sharpest tools in the wingnut clubhouse. He did a piss poor job of defending his arguement there. Guess he decided to try the Big Folks side of the pool, jumped in and never resurfaced.

[Iggo]

108. Enjoying yourself?

[onethatcares]

111. it appears that

someone came in to the tent and took a dump then left without cleaning up the mess.

where or where did that guy go?

[catbyte]

112. Why is a bagger talking point posted here?

If you attack the messenger it gives you permission to ignore his/her very distressing message. They've been doing it to Al Gore for years.

[treestar]

113. As a liberal, so long as he pays his taxes and doesn't complain

that the government is "stealing" from him and forcing him to help the poor thereby, there's no problem.

Same with the Kennedys or other rich liberals.

[BKH70041]

116. What he makes and how he spends it is his business.

I'm not seeing the issue here as to what he makes as compared to what he says. Lots of people say one thing and do another, and if someone views him in that regard that's up to them.

Now on a more personal level, he starts doing things to upset my business then he'll need to be made aware of the reasons not to do that. That's no different than anyone else. But so far, to his credit, that has not happened.

[DocwillCuNow]

117. It does, and it uses the logo, "we report, you decide". They decide before they put their

feet on the floor in the am.

[Marr]

118. Sure are a lot of right-wing talking points on this board lately. /nt

[GP6971]

119. We can do without RW talking points, thank you. n/t

[freeplessinseattle]

121. I saw him speak in 2006 at Key Arena for $15, with Eddie Vetter as a surprise guest

I bought tickets for 4 friends, and they were thrilled. That arena is huge, and not cheap to rent. He gave us a great bargain, perhaps barely profiting.