General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJust curious why no posts about Isrsael extending cease-fire
and Hamas rejecting it. Hamas apparently is greatly concerned over their citizens being killed. Or not.
delrem
(9,688 posts)and are even sicker of the apologists for it.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Hamas s not killing their citizens. iDF is.
delrem
(9,688 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)delrem
(9,688 posts)I'm out of it....
I just thought the sig suited you, the way you write.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I am pretty bold, can't help my self.
sheshe2
(83,900 posts)And I love ya for that, bravenak.
Haven't talked to you in awhile.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I've missed you too!! Been working on a few projects on topics that i'm not interested in but, the money is decent. Still working on my main one, i got act one and three finished, but i need to finish the middle up and then get through my first rewrite. I think rewriting is the worst part.
Doing some short nonfiction ebooks, ghost writing(feel like i'm getting pimped cause i kinda am), not in my name (don't want it in my name), just to get my portfolio going. Feeling productive and pleased with myself (cause I can pretend it wasn't me). Gotta pay my dues, I need another laptop (my kids poured WATER on mine), i want a MAC so i need more money!!
I looove you!!
sheshe2
(83,900 posts)Shoot it to me if you wish. I love what I have read from you. I have always wanted to write, sadly I don't have the talent. I can paint though or at least I could years ago. I have a BAFA. Wish I had the money to continue.
LOL...tell the kids to pour the water down the sink and not on your computer.
Love ya too, bravenak.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)That way i won't have too many plot holes. I'm planning a series.
sheshe2
(83,900 posts)Gotta go....sleep perchance to dream~
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)If Hamas is not doing the killing, what do they have to lose by extending the cease-fire?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Hamas is not doing the killing of Palestinians in Gaza. If you have some evidence to the contrary that is fact based please release it. As it stands Israel has killed over 1000 Palestinians in Operation Protective Edge. Mostly civilians. The 'Hamas is forcing Israel to kill civilians' meme is not working.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)These militant tunnels are not mole holes. Some are tall enough to stand in, reinforced with concrete and equipped with electricity and phone lines in some cases.
Over the past week, Israel said its troops had at least two separate firefights with militants coming out of tunnels into Israeli territory. The military said weapons, Israeli uniforms, plastic handcuffs, and tranquilizers have been found in tunnels tools for both potential attacks and potential kidnappings, Israel says.
One of those tunnels emerged near Israel's Kibbutz Nir Am, a lush gated community just a few hundred yards away from the northern tip of the Gaza Strip. Five Hamas gunmen shot dead four Israeli soldiers before they were killed themselves in a battle Monday.
. . . .
The Israeli military on Friday showed journalists another tunnel in the area that had been uncovered two months ago outside Nir Am. The tunnel was lined with concrete plates and was big enough for armed men wearing body armor to walk through, single file.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/07/26/335332220/the-long-history-of-the-gaza-tunnels
There is blame enough on both sides. They need to negotiate peace in good faith, and then they need to enforce the peace against their own people. There are no angels there.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)Or capture the terrorists when they used the tunnels?
Rather than raze the city of Gaza and kill innocent children?
hack89
(39,171 posts)Cause devastation in a huge radius. It would far exceed the present damage.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)From what I have seen, a couple of sticks of dynamite should close it up pretty good...
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)And by the way, that is what the Israelis were doing when the current cease-fire started. They were destroying tunnels.
My opinion: that's why the Israelis went in -- to destroy the tunnels and warn Palestinians not to build any more. Just my opinion.
I just want peace and a two-nation solution. Shouldn't be that hard provided both sides negotiate in good faith. But both sides have to want peace. I'm not sure who does and who doesn't. There are arguments on both sides as to which side wants peace the least. They could stop the fighting in no time if they just accepted that neither of them is going away. Eventually they will realize that they have to live side by side for the time being.
I do take solace that Alsace Lorraine was fought over by Germany and France for 100 years and after WWII became part of France with peace on both sides now since the end of WWII. But think of the wasted lives and the lost days of peace. Pride. That's what war is about.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,019 posts)all news/politics/conflicts. One observation from my 25 years in the corporate world is that people don't - can't? - learn from the past - we just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over. It happens with people, countries, governments, religions - you name it. It is exhausting and mind-numbing. And so many people die. And so much of it makes no sense....to me, anyway.
delrem
(9,688 posts)An individual might see through a meme, but that has no bearing on the weight of the meme being long-lasting.
So the fucking meme will always be there, in all its eternal glory, until those promoting it get off the wagon. Which more often than not is accompanied by loss of income from some lobbying agency. Unfortunately.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,019 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And realize that Israel's "generous" four-hour extension is meaningless in the actual scheme of things.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Sorry, but Hamas does not give a shit about its people.
And yes, I still think Netanyahu is a despicable human being.
delrem
(9,688 posts)"Hamas does not give a shit about its people"
I think that's sick. Lector like sick.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)It shows devastation. It does not show Hamas caring.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)you are trying to say.
We've seen THAT, but that is inanimate material, what we've also seen are the dozens, hundreds now, of beautiful, innocent children, dead. And many more wounded, orphaned and maimed for life.
Hamas is no longer important to this story, any blame that MIGHT have been legitimate, has been wiped out by the enormity of the crime committed now.
We've seen the depraved lack of care for human life magnified one thousand or more times, compared to Hamas.
Hamas had not fired rockets at Israel for 19 months until Netanyahu used the tragic deaths of the three Israeli teenagers as an excuse to invade Gaza again. And now we learn, he was lying, those students were already dead when he was claiming to be looking for them. AND Hamas was not responsible for their tragic and horrific murders.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)not responsible for those murders, that they knew who was. Has that been changed? Then I read that Netanyahu knew the boys were dead but acted as if they were missing and used this as his excuse to attack Gaza.
I haven't seen much news for the rest of the day, so it's possible it has been changed?
Uncle Joe
(58,420 posts)http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/24/why-did-bernie-sanders-get-gaza-so-wrong/
A report issued by the authoritative the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (ITIC), a private Israeli think tank that has close ties with the countrys military leadership, unintentionally debunked the Senate resolution more than a week before its unanimous consent vote in the Senate. The weekly ITIC reports regarding rocket fire are frequently quoted on the Israeli governments own web site.
The ITIC July 8, 2014 report,News of Terrorism and the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (July 2 8, 2014), states: For the first time sinceOperation Pillar of Defense [November 2012], Hamas participated in and claimed responsibility for rocket fire [on July 7, 2014].
Thus, Hamas rocket fire only re-started on July 7after a 19 month cease-fire. As we will see, this was nearly a month after Israeli forces launched massive military operations in the West Bank and Gaza starting on June 12. But those Israeli military operations were not the only provocation.
First, about the cease fire that was in place: Operation Pillar of Defense was an 8 day aerial assault on Gaza in November 2012 that ended with a ceasefire agreement brokered by Egypt. Graphs presented on the ITIC website show that the cease-fire was effective. In the weeks and months following that agreement, the ITIC consistently reported the absence of Hamas rocket fire. In addition, a May 2013 article in the Jerusalem Post, IDF source: Hamas working to stop Gaza rockets, reported that Hamas was policing other groups to prevent rocket fire.
There is more information on the link.
delrem
(9,688 posts)Response to HERVEPA (Reply #14)
Post removed
bravenak
(34,648 posts)delrem
(9,688 posts)It's like Netanyahu's ghost, several times several removed.
Netanyahu being very intelligent, sharp, and total in his racist hatred of Palestinians. According as videos thankfully provided by history and of which probably most DUers have been apprised of.
Netanyahu is a problem.
This kind of shit, though? It's just white noise.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Or Bibi. Evil and horrible.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Hamas isn't manning the tanks pelting Gaza's civilians with flechette shells.
As Bravenak points out, Hamas is not the one killing Palestinians.
How vile, how disgusting it is, when someone mans the ramparts to defend the massacre of civilians with the argument of, "Well they make us kill their children!"
Twelve hours, four, whatever, it doesn't fucking matter. This is what Israel has done. And at the end of its extension - if it even keeps to it - israel will resume doing it.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I cannot think of any good reason for Hamas' rejection of an extension on the cease-fire. Is it because they are planning to attack Israel?
If what we are reading in the news is true, that is really mystifying.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)That's a photo of the Palestinian tunnels.
Blame on both sides. They need to negotiate peace. No matter how difficult, no matter how humiliating, peace is always better than war.
That Israel released prisoners as a part of the peace talks and then the talks ended and instead of continuing the talks, the Palestinians united including Hamas? That Palestinian militants emerged from the caves prior to the Israeli air raids makes me wonder whether maybe Israel knew of the plans of the Palestinians to attack Israel at the end of Ramadhan.
That's my guess. It's just a guess I admit. I have utterly no contact with anyone who would know, but that is what I read from those facts. If I were a reporter or an intelligence agent for the US, I would start looking for evidence to support my theory and throw it away if I did not find any.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And doing so with what I assume must be a straight face?
malaise
(269,157 posts)That simple
riseabove
(70 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)Israel just has to wait its turn!
maced666
(771 posts)Are you really speculating why or why not there are posts on a topic? Who the hell could know such a thing?
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)riseabove
(70 posts)any evidence, any investigation and completely tore Gaza a new one...
You really expect Palestinians to just sit there and wait until Israel strikes again?
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Your premise is bullshit.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014856416
A locked duplicate: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014856476
elleng
(131,107 posts)but was a dupe and locked. There have been posts on the subject.
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)no one it taking what Israel says seriously. A bit of a credibility problem.
"on the condition that Israel Defense Forces continues dismantling and destroying militant tunnels from Gaza into Israel, according to senior Israeli officials"
Response to HERVEPA (Original post)
ann--- This message was self-deleted by its author.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)DON'T FIRE ROCKETS AT US!
politicman
(710 posts)What kind of a ceasefire requires one side to lay down their weapons while the aggressor can continue to conduct ground operations expecting to not encounter any resistance at all?
The Israeli Security Cabinet late Saturday agreed to extend the cease-fire, starting at 5 p.m. ET, on the condition that Israel Defense Forces continues dismantling and destroying militant tunnels from Gaza into Israel, according to senior Israeli officials.
Lt. Col Peter Lerner, an IDF spokesman, told CNN that dozens of tunnels provided militants "easy infiltration" to carry out attacks against Israelis.
"We will do what it takes in order to stop this threat," he said. "We have to take this threat off of the table."
Senior Israeli officials said IDF would "act against any violations of the cease-fire" during this period. The Cabinet was to reconvene Sunday to discuss the continuation of the military operation, the officials said.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/26/world/meast/mideast-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) Hamas on Sunday agreed to observe a 24-hour truce in Gaza after initially rejecting a similar Israeli offer, as fighting resumed and the two sides wrangled over the terms of a lull that international diplomats had hoped could be expanded into a more sustainable truce.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)And the American media reports it. How do we verify that?
politicman
(710 posts)Again you try to spout your Israeli propaganda but it isn't working.
Hamas have come out and said they will accept a 24 hour ceasefire where both sides lay down their arms and Israeli soldiers leave Gaza, that's reasonable.
Hamas wanted to change the narrative that Israeli has been dominating the airwaves with, claiming that Hamas rejected a humanitarian ceasefire when in actual fact it wasn't a ceasefire at all, but a way for Israeli to continue its operations on the ground and not have any resistance from Hamas while doing so.
Now the narrative is the real truth, that Hamas accepts a ceasefire under the condition that both sides stop what they are doing.
Seeing as how the news just reports the fact of who is willing to accept a ceasefire explaining the details of it, Hamas now will be referred to as accepting it while Israel most likely will have a problem with it, thus the narrative on the airwaves will have flipped around to the real truth.
countryjake
(8,554 posts)http://www.nbcnews.com/#/nightly-news/israel-extends-temporary-cease-fire-24-hours-n165851
This report addresses both of your questions, plus it details the story of the father who had seen the viral video from last weekend, discovering his son's body. The young man had been shot by a sniper during another ceasefire a week ago, as he walked thru his bombed-out eastern Gaza City neighborhood of Shujai'iya searching for relatives. International volunteers and journalists who were with him filmed the whole thing. 20-year-old Salem Shamaly has now finally been found and buried.
Ayman Mohyeldin on Twitter
This article from early last week in the NYTimes shows almost 16 minutes of the raw footage of the murder of Salem Shamaly, during last week's ceasefire.
Palestinian Family Finds Missing Son in YouTube Video of His Shooting JULY 22, 2014
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/world/middleeast/palestinian-family-finds-missing-son-in-youtube-video-of-his-shooting.html?_r=0
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,323 posts)As the saying goes "Location, location, location". I'm sorry that Israelis chose badly.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)Israel can stop the slaughter immediately. Hamas can not. Therefore Israel's offer is hollow and inadequate.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)and building tunnels to infilrate Israel? Odd!
Orrex
(63,224 posts)"Infiltrate Israel?" To what end? Probably something scandalous like the smuggling of food, supplies, and medicine, which Israel's blockade has cut off, in a sickening and ongoing act of collective punishment.
If Hamas were to stop the rocket attacks, it would have little impact on Israeli fatalities, and history gives little guarantee that it will stop Israel's air strikes or ground offensive. As such, Hamas has little or no power to stop the deaths of Palestinians.
Israel, in stark and bloody contrast, could stop the slaughter today if they wanted to, with almost no risk to its citizens (based on the extremely low success rate of Hamas rocket attacks). One might reasonably conclude that Israel maintains its attack simply because it wants to maintain that attack.
Bodhi BloodWave
(2,346 posts)for 19 months, they only started again once Israel killed 6 members of Hamas so kind of silly to claim that they can't stop firing rockets neh?
kentuck
(111,110 posts)Netanyahou said it on TV this morning??
I was waiting to hear a Hamas "leader" reject it?
Still waiting.
American media is carrying water for the Israeli government.