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[kickitup]

This message was self-deleted by its author (kickitup) on Mon Jul 28, 2014, 08:02 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[snooper2]

1. Lets Talk About Sex!

[Iggo]

2. You can't be fucking serious.

[one_voice]

5. +1

I thought the EXACT same thing.

[steve2470]

3. somehow this will not end well nt

[Warren DeMontague]

102. Ya think, Nostradamus?

[steve2470]

103. *peers into crystal ball*

It's actually doing better than I predicted, I need to repair this crack in my ball.

[Warren DeMontague]

105. OUCH!!!!!!

[NCTraveler]

4. You should say bye.

All on your own.

[IronLionZion]

6. Go on with your bad self

[BainsBane]

7. Yeah, there was an issue with a post like that in the lounge a while back

I alerted on it. It was allowed to stand. A host eventually locked it and there was great protest over the lock, until the thread was finally unlocked. Apparently objecting to racist imagery makes one a right-winger. Liberty is defined as belonging to the privileged alone, and their right to insult trumps respect and dignity for all peoples.

[whathehell]

21. +100. n/t

[cwydro]

107. I'm actually amazed

that this OP is still standing.

[maddezmom]

8. WTH

Is this a serious question?

[d_b]

9. lol

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

10. I think you answer your own question in the first sentence.

Pushing racism as masturbation material is as bad as pushing abusive misogyny. And it's not about 'prudishness'. Media helps shape us, and media that promotes racist or misogynistic messages shapes us in bad ways. And should be exposed for what it is so that those who do choose to read it understand the message they are being handed along with their sexual jollies.

You don't 'ban' anything, you don't prevent people from reading it, but you do try to make sure people understand the contextual messages they're being exposed to when they do.

[PasadenaTrudy]

12. Hit the road, Jack.... n/t

[LanternWaste]

13. No doubt, you hope that creative allegation is received with both sincere nods and acknowledgments..

"Just wondering. Just trying to get my bearings here..."

No doubt, you hope that creative allegation is received with both sincere nods and acknowledgments...

[Tetris_Iguana]

14. If this racist, sexist, and just crass OP can beat a jury, anything can.

[redstatebluegirl]

17. It did 4 to 3 to keep it.

I'm not a prude and don't participate in a lot of the nonsense stuff here, but this is nasty.

[Tetris_Iguana]

46. Yeah I saw it passed when I alerted it.

Unbelievable, isn't it?

[redstatebluegirl]

76. yep

[PowerToThePeople]

77. This is what DU has become

May as well name it DURepublic as mush right wing/racist/sexist/bigoted shit that gets posted here.

[Hekate]

117. Forewarned by you guys, I checked the SOP box instead

And sent a query to Ask the Admins.

Gets my hackles up when someone gets all disingenuous when posting racist, sexist, and otherwise nasty crap -- and I'm glad I'm not the only one.

[Orrex]

15. If the women are willing, they can be impregnated by whomever they choose.

[WinkyDink]

16. I don't get your point. But it is a curious thing how you know so much about this.

[kickitup]

51. I write erotica. I keep on top of what sells. I was just curious if it is okay to question racial

stereotypes in erotica being how it seems one can't question the sex depicted in Fifty Shades of Grey without being labeled a prude.

Nobody wants to address these different standards, though, which is what is really the curious thing.

[WinkyDink]

63. Writer or no, perhaps you might re-think your OP's inelegant way of expressing your chosen genre.

[H2O Man]

18. Huge.

[Marrah_G]

20. lol

[Marrah_G]

19. ~facepalm~

[The Straight Story]

22. Is this a Blazing Saddles thread?

[Rstrstx]

83. I think so

[VScott]

96. I was thinking more of "Full Metal Jacket".

"What we have here, little yellow sister, is a magnificent specimen of pure Alabama Blacksnake.
But it ain't too goddamned beaucoup".

[Doctor_J]

123. or Clarence Thomas

[LadyHawkAZ]

23. my opinion is that people who have an issue with different skin colors having sex

and/or having mixed-race children probably shouldn't be on a progressive website telling other people how to think. Just my humble bit of cultural criticism, of course.

[dawg]

24. I don't like books that promote bigoted world-views.

That includes racism, homophobia, and misogyny.

Would I censor them? No. But criticism does not equal censorship, and those who think it does remind me of all the fundamentalist Christians who think they are being *persecuted* in modern-day America.

[zazen]

25. isn't the OP arguing that criticizing FSOG's misogyny shouldn't be shamed and silenced?

I don't understand the outrage about this post.

Aren't they saying that no one seems to get upset when we question racist stereotypes in pornography (and pornography as described above exists, as do "erotic books," but they get upset when we question pornography itself?

Stereotypes of African American women as animalistic and Asian women as passive receptacles, etc., etc., only get attention in progressive spaces based on the racism involved but not in the degradation of females per se. . . the argument of the OP is that the Left as a whole (not radical feminists) generally tends to remain blind to sexual degradation because they see all sexual experience as "natural" and therefore exempt from questioning and critique.

Did I miss something here?

[Gormy Cuss]

29. Why yes, that's it.

A bit puzzled why anyone missed the obvious connection to the "50 Shades" marathon in GD.

[kickitup]

43. Says a lot, doesn't it? That they don't see their own hypocrisy.

[fishwax]

53. I think it's due to an OP that is, at best, worded inartfully

A generous (and not unreasonable) reading of the OP would take it to refer to pornography/erotica that plays off of racist stereotypes and fears about African American sexuality. The suggestion, then, would be that some erotica/porn relies for its titillation factor on a longstanding racist tradition of othering black male sexuality, investing in the African American male a sexual prowess/desire which is destructive and out of control. That racist BS was used, historically, as an excuse to exact tremendous violence upon African American bodies. In doing so, the argument would seem to continue, such texts perpetuate/reinforce such racist stereotypes.

But a reader who reads the post literally may get the impression that the OP objects to the depiction of interracial sex itself. For instance, the OP says that said erotica "plays upon the worst racial stereotypes by having these men impregnate white women" ... There is nothing wrong with an African American male impregnating a white woman, of course.

[kickitup]

60. In the erotica I alluded to, the black male impregnates the white woman without . . .

her knowledge, as no protection is used and her pregnancy is a surprise. The lewd black man just busting to claim the white woman. Just to get a white woman pregnant.

But, you know what? I give.

[fishwax]

61. yeah, that sounds racist

I don't think most people reading on DU are going to be familiar enough with the genre to go from what you wrote in the OP to what you wrote in this post, though.

[pnwmom]

120. Forget the OP then. It's pointing to the real problem that is being ignored

by the "progressive" champions of 50 Shades and its ilk.

The excuse of free speech and free action is being used to support the demeaning of women.

[Zorra]

71. Apparently you did miss one thing. Your Ann Coulter type stereotyping and characterization

of almost everyone on the Left as seeing all sex as natural and therefore exempt from questioning and critique is really not helping here. We hear a similar type of stereotyping from authoritarian conservative homophobes and transphobes who tell us the next thing that will happen after "the Left" legalizes same sex marriage is that bestiality and pedophilia will be legalized.

You make good, valid points but this just so wrong stereotyping only adds to the confusion about the meaning and intent of the OP; I agree with you, but unjustifiably insulting the majority of leftists in the world won't get you very far on DU.

[redqueen]

72. Yeah, unjustifiably insulting the majority of democrats is okey dokey.

But pointing out the rank hypocrisy so blatantly displayed by almost all on the left regarding sex industry? Well ... now that just will not do with most of the folks here.

[Zorra]

74. Please don't mischaracterize what I posted. nt

[pnwmom]

119. You got it:

"Stereotypes of African American women as animalistic and Asian women as passive receptacles, etc., etc., only get attention in progressive spaces based on the racism involved but not in the degradation of females per se"

[Lex]

26. "Just trying to get my bearings here."

I think you might best find your bearings elsewhere?

[samsingh]

27. who cares

[Anansi1171]

28. "Negro" is Spanish for Black Object...

...and that best encapsulates the centuries of objectification of black males by white women as well as white men.

Historically, the record is clear from lynchings that white women could have black men killed for a sideways glance.

Personally, I think the disconnect between whites fear and fetishism of black anatomy and sexuality is an elephant in this room.

[packman]

30. This entire thread is beyond good taste

Really-a post about black men's penis size and white women. Sounds like Bill O'really asking if Obama should be impeached, just asking mind you. "just trying to get my bearings" BS.

Get a book about it, see a movie. Let me steer you in the wrong direction --

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[one_voice]

40. Oh Jesus...

that movie.

When HBO first came out my parents got it-back then there was no parental control. I was up late one night and decided to see what was on--my first two R rated movies was that one and Beyond the Door.

[Brigid]

82. I remember when this came out.

IIRC, it got panned by the critics and caused quite a stir back in 1975. I think even SNL did a skit about it.

[bemildred]

31. Yawn. nt

[Oilwellian]

32. A clear example of why the jury system doesn't work n/t

[johnp3907]

33. "Fool" ignore is my friend.

[MineralMan]

34. I have no opinion about that. I do, however, have an opinion of your post.

It doesn't belong here. That's my opinion of it. It perpetuates a bigoted view, and bigotry is not acceptable on DU, in my opinion.

Your opinion might differ from mine.

[MineralMan]

37. Well, a jury apparently voted to leave it.

I find that depressing. Luck of the draw, I guess. Feh!

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

112. I think that's the OP's point, actually.

That racist drivel like that actually does exist, just like the misogynistic drivel of FSOG. I don't think he/she is actually promoting it.

[JVS]

36. I don't think this thread has turned out very well.

And I think you've unintentionally illustrated how silly people look when they go rooting around in other people's smut collections and get angry about it.

[Iggo]

42. Unintentionally?

[JVS]

45. OP posted another thread earlier that I think is related to this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025300940

This thread is a strange new tangent to the 50SOG flame marathon.

[Iggo]

79. Emphasis on flame. (n/t)

[dawg]

39. You should probably edit your OP in order to make it more clear ...

what point you are trying to make. To a lot of people, you are coming across as a racist, and I think that is probably the last thing you intended to do.

I know it is frustrating, but subtlety does not translate well to the internet. Sometimes, you have to spell things out for people instead of using inflammatory counter-examples.

[Lex]

41. so far a "hit and run" OP maker too

not a good sign

[kickitup]

48. I'm biting my fingernails in worry.

[kickitup]

44. Evidently.

[zazen]

49. the misreadings of your post are astonishing and very revealing

1) You are in no way promoting "erotica" or pornography that propagates racist sexual stereotypes.

2) People seem to misread this and think you are and as a result want to CENSOR YOUR POST because you simply reference pornography, which exists, which deals in racist stereotypes.

3) But no one wants to BAN A POST that references a book that deals in misogynist stereotypes, because presumably that's "natural."

4) In fact, some with to BAN THE POSTS OF PEOPLE EXERCISING THEIR RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH TO CRITICIZE THAT MISOGYNY.

It's mind-blowing. Wow.

[kickitup]

54. Yes, I'm learning a lot about DU.

And while this will offend (and I honestly don't care at this point), I thought the people here were a bit smarter. Evidently not. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but damn.

[dawg]

56. We are one of the more intelligent communities on the internet.

And if you think about that long enough, it can be very depressing. It does, however, explain lots of things about our society.

[redqueen]

59. So sadly true

[m-lekktor]

73. well at least the majority on the jury understood that mentioning something exists

isn't the same as advocating for it. i can't believe people are clamoring for you to be booted off the site. their comprehension skills are sorely lacking.

[redqueen]

57. I dearly wish it was astonishing.

It is sadly routine here now, the almost complete lack of critical thought.

Look at the repeated yammerings about book banning, book burning, prudery, etc. Rational thought is sadly scarce.

[Squinch]

86. Very good synopsis of the stupid. Can you believe this shit?

[dawg]

55. Jonathan Swift got tombstoned from DU back in 2003.

Advocating cannibalism is not acceptable on DU - full stop!!!

[Squinch]

87. Meh. If the cannibalism were coupled with something degrading about women, it would be fine here.

It was probably just the fact that JS advocated cannibalism of children that bothered DU.

We could probably name who would post the OP, and we know that lots of folks would give it a big

I think I would have liked Jonathan. I love that story about the original Jonathan Swift.

[CBGLuthier]

47. Wow people completely miss the point of this post almost as much as do why that shitty book

and movie have us upset.

Other than being phrased inelegantly and in some what poor taste the fact that such books are popular is A. news to me and B. a sign that people are still stuck in the dark ages when it comes to race and sexuality.

[kickitup]

50. It amazes me the point did get lost on so many. My fault, I guess.

[arcane1]

85. I noticed that too. It went over almost everyone's head.

And yes, there is a fair-sized market for fantasies involving black men impregnating white women, and the audience for it is mostly white men. The fantasy is that the man is "ashamed" because his wife gives birth to a mixed-race child.

Doesn't even come close to floating my boat, but it has a similar "how does this reflect on our society" level to it.

I think the OP made a good point that most posters completely missed.

[Squinch]

88. Sometimes I wonder if pods have taken over the brains of posters here.

[ismnotwasm]

52. Actually one of my objections to pornography written or visual

Is how common the blatant racism is. The well endowed African American and white women is a common racist trope.

I like erotica and I read it when I can find something decent.

I have trashed nearly every "50 shades" thread, because every one gets derailed in some way. It's too bad, because there is a decent conversation to be had about the state of erotica.

In order to have an opinion about pornography one should know what's being presented to the public and the purchaser as acceptable. "50 shades" might be nonsense, albeit violent and ignorant nonsense. That's all I'm saying.

I know one popular on-line website that promotes just about everything in it's written pornography, including incest-- very common, as well as pedophilia--not just the young, but children, who are usually presented as either seducers or innocents. I've often wondered a) who writes this shit, and b) who reads it (the stories are coded, so you know when pediphilia is involved) There are so many common racist tropes, you can pick your poison, Black, Asian, Latino. Whiteness is of course the default state. Here we have people who don't even recognize or acknowledge white privilege, so they are of course going to defend racism in pornography.

[LittleBlue]

58. lmao @ the title of this thread

"black men with huge schlongs"... OP wtf?

[kickitup]

62. I am truly sorry if I have offended anyone.

I did not mean to do that and evidently should have worded my post in a different way and made it clear that my OP was in response to the FSOG discussions.

I write erotica. I see what is selling. Some themes I steer clear of because I find them personally offensive. Portraying black men as out of control sexual beasts is one I find offensive. Pseudo-incest is another. I was trying to make a point but evidently failed miserably.

[Tetris_Iguana]

64. ...

[WinkyDink]

65. There's pornography. There's erotica. There is realism. There is art. And then there is bilge.

[TeeYiYi]

66. ...

TYY

[Lex]

70. "I was trying to make a point but evidently failed miserably."

Not a good sign for a writer.

[pnwmom]

122. The only mistake was expecting people to make the connection to the 50 Shades discussions.

But I think most people got it anyway. Thanks.

[TreasonousBastard]

67. I have no opinion about fiction involving black men...

with huge schlongs impregnating white women.

I do, however, find most of the people with opinions about it to be a little odd.

[ismnotwasm]

68. I don't think you would

What I'm seeing here is people who aren't following what's actually available in erotica. I do-- trust me--a lot of it is far more offensive than the title of the OP, and racist as hell.

[Inkfreak]

75. It's not my cup of tea...

Nor is the stuff in 50 SoG. And while I'll give the obligatory nod of the head to free speech and the ability to write whatever fiction ya want, I don't see the harm in discussing the harm it may/may not have on our society. So no, no ones part of the morality police in these threads, imo. But I've just given them a passing glance, as I'm not really interested in it. This OP just sprang right out at me, though. I had to add my 2 cents, lol.

And I also, don't understand the cries for your ppr. I think people just skim OPs and just respond to phrases or words that jump out at them. No real reflection on what your asking. I see you passed a jury 3-4. Shoulda been 0-7 leave if anyone had bothers to understand your OP in context to what's going on around here.

[Kali]

78. interesting to see the reading skills illustrated in this thread

other threads related to the subject du-jour have a lot of intentional misinterpretation, but this thread seems to have a fair amoung of...WOOOOOSH - right over some heads.

[ismnotwasm]

80. Very interesting.

Wonder why that is-- seriously?

[Lex]

81. When you attempt to make a point this clumsily, it's not the reader's fault.

It's the fault of the writer. And even the writer of the OP agrees that it's badly written.

[ismnotwasm]

94. I think the goal was getting attention to the topic

It does seem to be mildly facilitate conversation though. He is talking about a racist trope, but I could see where it would offend prior to seeing the point. And even so it still might offend.

[Lex]

98. Yes, and shouting the N-word in a crowd and then explaining

your (although perhaps valid) point after that would work just about as badly.

[joeglow3]

84. I am glad this hasn't been hidden

I about choked on my lunch. Thanks for the laugh.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

89. Has anyone here actually addressed and/or attempted to answer you questions?

1. If one criticizes it, is one a member of the morality police? imo, no.

2. Is one a prude? again imo, no.

3. Is one secretly wanting a big black man with a huge schlong? Speaking only for myself, no.

4. Is one suffering from hysteria? not today, no (again, speaking only for myself).

5. Should one be directed to direct her ire towards more important issues? I am quite capable of chewing gum and walking at the same time.

6.Can one question what it means about our society that this theme is being gobbled up without being accused of being close minded? During Rape Porn Week, while discussing the merits of the First Amendment and Freedom of Speech vis a vis Art, I got a hidden post for telling someone to enjoy their rape porn ... if that tells you anything.

[ecstatic]

90. Erotic FICTION/fantasy. Get back to me when a book features pedophile fantasies.

Child pornography is illegal and immoral. Other than that one exception, I don't care!

[ismnotwasm]

93. As I posted upthread, there is at least one written erotica website (amateur submission)

That does include pedophilia. It's been up for some time so I have no up idea why it's legal

[AgingAmerican]

91. My opinion is...

...you need to find a new entertainment genre. Seriously.

[In_The_Wind]

92. You have got to be kidding with this thread!

[one_voice]

95. Just so I'm clear on this...

I've read the entire thread. I NOW know what the OP was trying to say. However it's not as obvious as people are making it. Not too mention

featuring big black men with huge schlong

didn't help. I'm sure there were other ways to phrase that so that it looked less like click bait.

So some people got it right away.

Others didn't. Those people are being blamed (intelligence mocked etc) because the OP was less than clear.? This I don't understand.

[ismnotwasm]

97. You are probably right

I got it right away-- even though it made me uncomfortable how it was phrased. I do expect liberals to see and understand racist tropes when they see them. The OP hasn't rephrased his topic, but I hope more people are able to understand what he meant.

[steve2470]

99. I understand his/her post

I admit, the first sentence really threw me. Otherwise, the post was fine. I would have definitely worded it differently.

[Warren DeMontague]

100. OP containing the word "schlong"

Automatic Rec.

[CincyDem]

106. Isn't "huge schlong" technically redundant.

I'm mean, seriously, once you linguistically ratchet yourself up to using the word schlong in a post title, isn't it by definition huge. Do people ever comment about an average sized schlong or maybe a teeny weeny schlong. Nope.

And while I'm at it, can you for a moment imagine if Monty Python did a schlong skit instead of spam. Sorry, just can't explain why this video came to mind while reading this thread.

[Warren DeMontague]

110. I think you're right.

[Warren DeMontague]

101. Bigfoot porn is also a top seller on amazon. The author pulls down 60k a MONTH.

Deconstruct THAT.

[CincyDem]

114. You know why a schlong isn't 12" long ?

Because then it would be a foot.


OK - so it's a joke from third grade. It's still funny, maybe not funny but still. ya know funny funny.

[bravenak]

104. It's very stereotypical.

Big black lustful men, small slender white lady.
Why not just watch 'Birth of a Nation' if they like that stuff. Not you, i just find it lame.

[edbermac]

108. Calling my broker to buy stock in Orville Redenbacher.

I'll make millions!

[upaloopa]

109. I don't normally concern myself with other people's

sexual fantasies. I am told we all have our sexual fantasies. Most of us keep them to ourselves or share them with partners.
I think your fantasies are your business and other people's fantasies are their business.

[Kingofalldems]

111. Funny, I went over to Amazon to check on this

and saw no evidence of what you posted.

[one_voice]

115. Yep..

"erotica top 100 books"

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_pg_1?rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Aerotica+top+100&keywords=erotica+top+100&ie=UTF8&qid=1406584900

Kindle

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=erotica+top+100+kindle&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Aerotica+top+100+kindle

"top selling erotica books"

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_pg_2?rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Atop+selling+erotica+books&page=2&keywords=top+selling+erotica+books&ie=UTF8&qid=1406586283

Kindle

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=top+selling+erotica+kindle&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Atop+selling+erotica+kindle



erotica

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_pg_1?rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Aerotica&keywords=erotica&ie=UTF8&qid=1406586507

Unless I'm missing something (which is entirely possible) I don't see any evidence either.

[Dreamer Tatum]

116. So endeth the trick. nt

[Hekate]

113. Racist crap disingenuously posted as "just asking" and "just trying to get my bearings here" ...

...regarding erotica.

And the jury was okay with this? Wow.

[DocwillCuNow]

121. Is this a sex thread?? It seems to have generated a bit of interest, or non interest

depending on the way you interpret many of the responses.

[Spider Jerusalem]

124. Wowsers.

One thing a lot of the responses to this thread have illustrated is that there are really quite a lot of people who have serious reading comprehension skills and manage to completely miss the point. It's kind of staggering really to see the kneejerk responses of people categorising this OP as "racist" (which is isn't), rather than the more obvious point being made of whether implicitly racist attitudes expressed in erotica (for instance the theme of black men as animalistic beasts unable to control their lustful urges for white women) are problematic and worthy of critique, and if so, tangentially, whether the attitudes expressed in something like "50 Shades of Grey", are equally problematic and worthy of critique. But no, there are apparently quite a lot of stupid people, here.