Before I Bed Down Tonight... I'd Like To Say... For Most Of My Life... I've Supported Israel...

[WillyT]

And in many ways I think I still do...

Like a friend trying to talk someone out of driving home drunk.

My old man fought in WW!!, like a number of yours, and sat me on his knee and told me stories of the entire conflict.

Didn't quite get it all in my tender years, yet we watched every movie/documentary on the entire Era.

As a blooming adult... I remember Munich in the '72 Olympics.

I remember all the various plane hi-jackings during the 1970's.

I remember the angry Arabs in their angry outfits...

What I had no idea was... I had been... "directed in a certain direction"...

And in the ensuing years, as I read more and more...

When I first got mad at the manipulation... I thought... A POX on BOTH your houses.

But I can not do that.

I weep for all the children, some times I weep for the entire world.

THAT SAID... This is the first time in my 58 year old life where I am feeling...

Palpable Anger at the Israeli Government, and the IDF.

YOU ARE NOW, BULLIES... AND YOU ARE PUNCHING DOWN !!!

Like a senior in high-school, beating the crap out of an incoming 8th grader.

You have become what you... what we all... hated.

[sabrina 1]

1. You're not the only one, Willy. Far from it. I grew up loving the idea of Israel

I read all the awful books about the Holocaust and never ceased to be horrified by it. Who ever thought humans could be capable of such evil? On such a large scale.

I read Exodus, and watched the movie, I met Leon Uris, I was happy that the Jewish people finally had their own home. Who with any decency would not be?

But over the past decade or so, I have been horrified by Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people. And I no longer have the respect I once had for Israel.

[WillyT]

2. Thank You For That ...

[TransitJohn]

9. Israel should be a pariah state like South Africa was while practicing apartheid.

I don't know how liberal or progressive people could think otherwise.

[Enthusiast]

47. They are getting there.

[Samantha]

16. I know an extremely conservative Republican who winced when Netanyahu came back into power

I was surprised and asked why. He said he was an extreme hard-liner.

I personally think he needs to go.

I felt the same as you, happy that the Jewish people finally had their own home. I now think the only people who can change things over there do not work in or with the government -- it will be when the multitudes are protesting, saying not in our name. It looks like that has already started.

It bothers me now to hear Reid say Israel may need more money. That is our money going over there financing the slaughter of all of the Palestinian civilians. I can't hardly handle even thinking about that ... their blood is on our hands as well.

Sam

[WillyT]

86. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!

[Roy Serohz]

104. Regime Change Needed

Much more than Iraq ever deserved!

[kysrsoze]

24. Funny... I read "Drinking the Sea at Gaza." This book tells the truth about how

the Israeli government has plundered the land, water and dignity of Palestinians since 1948, and was written by a Haaretz reporter. A lot of people still don't realize the newly created state of Israel shot and killed those Palestinians who refused to leave their homes. Israeli apologists don't have a counter to that garbage, other than the land somehow always belonging to Israel only. What's going on is in some ways, nothing new, but in other ways, completely new, as Israel is pulling out all the stops this time. It is absolutely sickening.

[m-lekktor]

42. only in the past decade? better late than never.

and don't get me started on Exodus, by Leon Uris.

[sabrina 1]

103. Yes, only in the last decade. Better late than never. I have been reading the comment sections of

news media from all over the world. And what I am seeing is that I am not alone. People are horrified. If it was up to the people, Netanyahu would be at the Hague right now. As would Dick Cheney and our very own war criminals.

Even now, I don't understand what is happening. OUR SENATE despite the overwhelming opposition to Israel's actions all over the world, voted unanimously to support those crimes. I am stunned.

There is something going on here that doesn't make sense. WE the PEOPLE overwhelmingly oppose these war crimes, but our Representatives overwhelmingly support them. They do NOT represent the people, so who DO THEY represent??

[malaise]

44. Same here

and my great grandfather was Jewish. Horrified doesn't quite describe my feelings against Israel at this time.

[BlueMTexpat]

62. I am like you in many ways.

Then I became a Peace Corps Volunteer to Morocco in the 1960s and heard a different narrative from the Arab POV, which caused me to begin questioning things that I saw and heard in the US media. Then I met Palestinian Arabs who had left Palestine to try to build lives and careers elsewhere. They are every bit as admirable and as desiring of peace and understanding as are many Israelis, but they still feel a strong attachment to their homeland and to their family members still there. That put faces to Palestinians for me.

That is what we in the US have mostly not seen. We have all too often been shown the faces of admirable Israelis (of whom there are many) but not anywhere near the same amount of faces of admirable Palestinians. We also demonized the PLO for a long time, just as we demonize Hamas now. Any group that can be elected by a population, as Hamas was in 2006, cannot be all bad, so why do we - who "support" free elections - never accept the results of an election if they are not what we wish and continue to punish the population for exercising its freedom to vote? In fact, as many who are familiar with the area know, many of the most radical elements are actually offshoot PLO cells rather than Hamas at all. But Hamas is almost always characterized as the "bad guys" - certainly by US media, who always have to find "good" guys and "bad" guys for their overly simplistic coverage of events - not simply those in Israel.

In 2000, I actually visited Israel as part of a UN team and witnessed for myself the very jarring sights of Israeli settlements, often settled by the most radical right wing settlers from the US, no less - not native Israelis or even moderate settlers. Such settlements continue to encroach on occupied land. I am not Palestinian or Arab, yet I was outraged at the sights. I could only imagine a tiny bit how Palestinians themselves might feel.

A few years back, I reread The Source, James Michener's lengthy novel of the area and the successive waves of settlers to it, with the backstory being a group of archaelogists who are uncovering a dig. The primary financier of the dig is an American Jew from Chicago, who leads his own very modern life (at least for the 1960s) there. When he first visits the dig, he is less impressed by kibbutz activity and the building of a new nation (which was the pride of the native Israelis in the novel) that would encompass all residents - Israelis and Arabs alike - than he is by encouraging the most conservative Jewish religious practices so that American Jews who did not even practice those rites had a focal point for the "purity" of their religion. The native Israelis (sabras) in the novel did not see the focus on their religion as the best future of the area.

To me the story is a metaphor for much of what has happened since: Americans, especially conservative Jews and Christians, who project their own ideas of what Israel should be onto the nation instead of letting the nation evolve for itself by coming to terms with its neighbors in a way that enables the security of all.

[JEB]

3. Pretty much my experience as well,

only it took me 62 years to get here. Also, they are punching down using weapons supplied by out 3 billion dollars in military aid. Shameful and sickening.

[WillyT]

4. Yep... There Is That...

[villager]

5. Being Jewish, and having visited there just last year, I find Likudnik excess very demoralizing

The wrong people have the power there, just as they do here.

And everything once-good starts to corrode...

There may also be an aspect of "battered child" syndrome writ large in the dynamic, I'm afraid...

(Which will in turn keep being passed down generationally, in the Mideast...)

[WillyT]

6. And You Have To Know... I Root For The Academics And Peace-Niks On Both Sides...

I, you, and almost everybody else who gives a shit, about...

The people, the territory, the region, and the planet... wants it to end.

And... for those that do not... I would like them exposed, deposed, and thrown in a hole.



Too much ??

[villager]

7. In my 50's myself, WillyT, I've arrived at Iain Banks' "Fuck Every Cause that Ends in Murder...

...and Children Crying" to calibrate the validity of any government, theocratic institution, form of politics, etc.

All sides currently failing that test in the Mideast.

(And not just there, alas)

[WillyT]

8. Word !!!

[elzenmahn]

48. I'm with you there, villager...

[redwitch]

83. Yes!

I absolutely agree!

[LuvNewcastle]

13. That, I think, is the root cause of the mess we see today.

The ultra-right Likud Party needs to be voted out by the Israelis. It should have happened a long time ago. They've fanned the flames of fear and hatred in Israel much like our GOP does, and they've had a lot of success there. I don't see how a peace agreement can be reached as long as Likud stays in power.

I hope Israelis are seeing where that party has led them and they act accordingly. I want Israel to be a success and I also want the Palestinians to be successful in their own territory. It might not be realistic to hope that the Israelis and Palestinians ever like each other, but I think that we can realistically hope and expect them to stop killing each other.

[Aerows]

15. "Realistically hope and expect them to stop

killing each other."

I think that's a sentiment that everyone shares. There is no need for it. They don't have to love one another, just stop the damn killing.

[oberliner]

22. Are you familiar with the political parties in Israel?

If so, are there ones that you would support?

[LuvNewcastle]

28. I know that Israel has a lot of parties and the ones who

get the most votes seem to be pretty conservative regarding Israeli/ Palestinian relations. If I lived in Israel, I doubt if I would be a strong supporter of any of the parties that get the most votes.

[Crunchy Frog]

29. It's bad enough having to vote in the U.S.

I can't even imagine what it would be like having to vote in Israel. I'd probably just spend election day curled up in a closet.

[LuvNewcastle]

31. Ain't it the truth. n/t

[oberliner]

32. There are way more far-left options in Israel than in the US

In fact, the Communist Party of Israel has three seats in the current knesset.

[stranger81]

38. I only wish we had the diversity of legitimate political opinion in this country that seems

possible in Israel.

I know some of the parties in Israel that get the most press -- Likud, Shas, Jewish Home, Meretz, Labor, Kadima -- but other than general right/left persuasions, it's hard for me to tell most of the time where they all fall vis-a-vis each other.

I'd love to see a political spectrum chart, with furthest right wing on one side to furthest left on the other -- laying out all these parties and putting their relationships to one another in some perspective.

[Hippo_Tron]

54. Parties are more fickle in Israel, it would depend on the election

For example, Kadima was the governing party up until 2009 and now I think they barely exist if at all. There are absolutely people who oppose Likud and the right's policies, so whatever party they're organized under at the time, is who I'd vote for.

[Pirate Smile]

23. One of the most frightening things I've read lately is polling showing Israel is going in the

opposite direction of the US - younger people are moving significantly to the right of the older Israelis - looks like the RW Israeli governmental disaster is only going to get worse.

Edit to add a link http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/poll-young-israelis-moving-much-farther-to-the-right-politically-1.353187?v=7CCB99239931705A7C2FD82AA94018FB

[LuvNewcastle]

30. They had better make a change, because the world has had enough of this.

Either Israel can change or the world is eventually going to step in and help the process along. I doubt they'll like the results if that happens.

[Marr]

87. Whether the world is sick of it or not, they'd better change their stance.

The moment we get off of oil, Israel is going to be on it's own, financially. That might be in 15 years or in 100 years, but it's going to happen, and they will be up Shit Creek.

[regnaD kciN]

109. ???

How does oil (which Israel doesn't have) help perpetuate them? I would think it would work in the opposite direction -- our need for oil might cause us to show favoritism to Arab countries who oppose Israel?

[Marr]

112. Israel is our local thug state. They give us a presence in the region that

makes taking military action much easier.

[regnaD kciN]

110. As I've said before...

...Israel, whether it realizes it or not, is approaching the "tipping point" where the postwar generation, which is highly supportive of Israeli policy, will be supplanted by a younger generation for whom the Holocaust is only a distant historical event, and which is thus far less likely to give Israel a rubber stamp on everything. My guess is that the change will happen rather quickly.

[mackerel]

10. "I weep for all the children, some times I weep for the entire world."

me too

[Uncle Joe]

11. Kicked and recommended. I feel the same way.

Thanks for the thread, WillyT

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Sorry willy

I needed to delete this. I was once again reminded why I am wasting my time with these threads.

[Arugula Latte]

14. When I was a kid we heard a lot about Israel in school.

We heard about how they turned the dessert green, how some lived on kibbutzes. We learned how to dance the horah and to play with dreidels during our public school celebrations of "the holidays." As for the Palestinians? It was until I was embarrassingly old that I figured out that "Palestinian" wasn't synonymous with "terrorist who kills and blows stuff up for absolutely no reason."

A lot of us never quite grasped how one-sided the story we heard was until relatively recently.

[NealK]

40. Same here. n/t

[WillyT]

89. Yep... I Remember Being Taught How To Create/Make Dreidels... Around the 3rd Grade... (1963)...

Whoa...

Seemed like fun at the time.

Had no idea... about other "reasons".

[arthritisR_US]

17. You just described my feelings completely! nt

[onecaliberal]

18. Thanks for articulating

What I think so many are feeling including myself.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

19. I stand with you, my dear WillyT...

Every word of your excellent post.



K&R

[VA_Jill]

20. I don't like anybody very much

So goes a line in "The Merry Minuet". Like you, I was a supporter of Israel for a long time, but back in the times of Sabra and Shatilah my late ex said to me, "israel has lost its soul," and I began to see that was true. I really began to feel pretty much like you, "A plague on both your houses!" But this...this is outrageous. Israel should not do to others what so many others have done to the Jewish people. This is insupportable.

There. I said it. Call me whatever you damn well please, but look in the mirror first.

[riqster]

56. Applause for the Kingston Trio reference.

"What nature doesn't do to us, will be done by our fellow man."

[ReRe]

21. K&R

Try to get some sleep, WillyT. The rest of us insomniacs will stay up and try to keep up with the news that gets leaked out of Hell-on-Earth.

[defacto7]

27. K & R

[pbmus]

33. Ugh to the whole mess, murdering states with each side having the most righteous view ...

[Kablooie]

34. I heard 90% of the population within Israel strongly supports the attacks.

So it's not something that the government is doing without public approval.

[KauaiK]

35. You are not alone

That people in the US are hungry; without medical care or basic housing so that tax dollars / weapons can be sent to Israel makes me physically ill.

[Bluenorthwest]

63. That's right wing thinking. Total foriegn aid is just 1.5% of the US budget, a drop in a huge bucket

That's the total to the entire world, including places like Iraq and Afghanistan which we messed up. So no one is going without to provide any of that aid. We spend 19% on 'defense'. 6% on interest on our debt.
If you add up the US aid to Jordan, Egypt and Palestine you get a number almost identical to the amount given to Israel. Seems like that might be worth a mention.

[KauaiK]

78. Sorry....Not buying it. Look up how much is given to Israel DAILY

The amount would feed, clothe, house and provide medical coverage for those here in need first. Israel is using it's foreign aid to fence in people and kill them. The irony is that the Israeli's are doing the the Palestinians what was done to them for centuries.

[Bluenorthwest]

98. Oppositiong to foreign aid is a right wing position, the recipients of such aid are varied and many

and in that region are as I stated. You can look it up. Anyone can. Using right wing arguments because you don't care for a particular recipient of aid is not really a thing I can endorse.

[KauaiK]

106. I don't believe that is it right wing....

I object to this particular foreign aid that allows the Israeli's to oppress the Palestinians. Israel would not exist absent the financial and weaponry aid from the US. Further I also believe that we as a country need to take care of those in need HERE first.

[davidpdx]

107. I support foreign aid

But not for more bombs, guns, and missiles. Israel is far from a poor nation. If they want them, they can buy them on their own. We could certainly help them in some areas and not others.

[azurnoir]

37. well said

for me it started with a friend of my daughters who'd spent his childhood in southern Lebanon during the Israeli occupation there, what he told me was eye opening and at first I actually didn't fully believe him until I started investigating and found the casual brutality he described to be true. However it is the internet that has been the great leveler here it gives a voice to those who had been up until now never heard in the West

[ChiciB1]

39. And Before I Go To Bed This A.M. I Have To Say

When Netenyahu became the Leader again, I always thought this wad on his agenda. Have never trusted him and felt he was always going to use U.S. overwhelming support for Jewish people as a tool to do what's happening.

We can argue the intricacies of the exactly what has gone on ad infinitum, both sides and pluses and minuses, still something inside my head and heart feels this is a lopsided affair! Just feels so wrong. Since I came into this world war and upheaval have been going on.

I know many disagree, but whoever they call their Supreme Being seems to have guided this miserable agenda by so many in this region of the world. That last statement includes all who live there and who guides each country with why they've been at war since FOREVER! I was raised as a Catholic, but religious faith is something I no longer understand or can support!

Religion there and religion here has shown me some really horrible examples of what I "thought" faith was supposed to mean. IMO, religious fervor has taught me more about hate and killing than the alternative. I'm sure there are true believers who sincerely do good work, but more and more I'm seeing too much of hate from religious beliefs.

But, getting back on topic I'm appalled by what I'm seeing, just makes me very upset and no end in sight!

[randome]

43. Religion is like a nuclear bomb.

It makes some feel comfortable -even safe- but it can be used for the most inhumane purposes.

So long as we tolerate the mindset of 'us' and 'not us', religion will be used to kill and decimate.

But the Israelis, in their comfortable clothes and houses, can always wear their magic clothes and say a few magic words and all is forgotten. I wonder what they say now to justify what they've done. Maybe, "Thanks, God."?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Sometimes it seems like the only purpose in life is to keep your car from touching another's.[/center][/font][hr]

[WillyT]

90. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! - And Thank You !!!

[HERVEPA]

51. Most Israelis are not religious.

[HERVEPA]

73. It is true

Maybe do a little research before you post on a subject you are unfamiliar with.

[Major Hogwash]

41. Well, I'm just glad my dad is not alive to see this shit going on today.

Like your dad, my dad served in WWII as a young man who was drafted and who did not grow up thinking that he would ever serve in the military.
He supported the formation of Israel after WWII, and he hardly ever criticized anything they did for the next 30 years.
He didn't particularly like Golda Meir very much, but he gave her credit for keeping the country together at a critical time in their history.

The fact that Netanyahu thinks that he is "in the right" or "has the right" for the shelling of the Gaza Strip only proves how much the people of the Middle East hate each other . . unto death.
Israel will survive Netanyahu, but they need to crank him down a few notches until he is replaced.

I don't think the next president of Israel will be as hardline right as Netanyahu is.
The UN may have to ultimately step in and enforce a cease fire.

[Skidmore]

45. Thanks for so aptly

expressing what I have not been able to articulate.

[Enthusiast]

46. Kicked and recommended!

Way to go, WillyT!

Israel is destroying what was their greatest asset.

[IronLionZion]

49. It's OK to support a country and oppose specific policy actions

There are plenty of people affected who did nothing to deserve any of this. The people making the decisions rarely feel the effects.

[magical thyme]

50. I read The Diary of Anne Frank as a child

I grew up steeped in stories of the Holocaust. My favorite uncle was Jewish and I absorbed all his stories of the evil Khaddafi, the evil Palestinians, the evil arabs, and the poor, poor Jewish people. I looked on Vanessa Redgrave with contempt and wouldn't see any of her movies. My neighbors across the street had survived the Holocaust; they kept to themselves, their arms still bore the tattoos from the concentration camps. When my parents took to going away for weekends and leaving me locked out in the street, they were the neighbors who intervened to protect me. Two of my early bosses when I went to work were Jewish and were kind, kind, kind to me.

And then I grew up and began to read stories from the other side, that Israel did NOT exist as a country until the UN "gave" them land that was already inhabited, and had been for thousands of years.

The Israeli Zionists have become the monster. We have made it possible with our tax dollars. I weep for the Palestinian people. We destroyed their lives and their way of life; one that was ecologically sustainable for the area. At this point I'm sorry to say that based on the history of the area and how Israel came to exist, I do not believe that Israel has any inherent right to exist. The fact is that without our tax dollars, Israel would not exist.

I will be writing to my senators, my congresswoman and Harry Reid. This is simply not acceptable.

[Thespian2]

59. I also weep

for the children...and the mothers...and the oppressed Palestinians. Israel is a terrorist state, supported by the US government with a billion tax dollars per year. If the US had the moral integrity to stop the flow of tax dollars, Israel would have great difficulty continuing the slaughter of innocent human beings.

[WillyT]

91. WOW !!! - K & R !!! - Thank You For That !!!

[B Calm]

52. If Russia is to blame for the shooting down flight MH 17, then we are to blame for Israel

blowing up schools, hospitals and killing innocent civilians in Gaza.

[HooptieWagon]

61. Yes, we bear some resposibility.

We are enablers.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

53. The people trying to get Israel to stop walking this terrible path

are the best friends both Israel and Jewish people around the world have.

Their worst enemies? Netanyahu, the Likud, and the IDF, doing their best to create hatred against Jewish people everywhere. And far too many people in the world don't know enough to assign blame just where it belongs, but will simply 'hate Jews'.

Netanyahu is going to bring levels of anti-Semitism back to levels not seen since the middle of the last century.

Jewish people the world over need to condemn this slaughter as strongly as possible.

[WillyT]

92. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!

[yellowwoodII]

55. I know what you mean

During the civil rights days, my Jewish friends were the ones who stood up for the underdog. They generally opposed the Viet Nam War. Now they listen to Fox News. They loved our attack on Iraq.
I have loved the Jewish culture, the humor, the philosophic attitude, the scientific endeavor.
I am so disappointed.
I thought that Israel and its supporters were better than this.

[riqster]

57. Well said. The Israeli government has no excuse for its behavior.

They are doing to the Palestinians what has been done to the Jewish people over the course of history.

Dammit, if anyone should NOT be doing this, it's the Jewish people.

[sinkingfeeling]

58. Much like you. I began to question Israel's intent back in 2002 when they

began bulldozing the olive trees.

[RedstDem]

60. welcome to the club

Is real hell has been dishing it out too heavy and thick for a while.
If they truly wanted to live in peace, they would actually try.

[riverbendviewgal]

64. Thank you Willy T for writing what I feel

Last edited Wed Jul 30, 2014, 10:22 AM - Edit history (1)

I too felt great empathy for Israel. I was 12 when the Eichmann trial was on. I read of the Holocaust. I read the book ONE IS TWO MANY. I poured over LIFE and LOOK magazines that had many photos and articles on the conflicts and wars between Israelis and Palestinians.

I was distraught reading of walls put around Palestinian wells and olive trees, that are generations old ,mowed down.

Jerusalem should be made an international city with the UN headquarters moved to it. There should be two states, back to the original borders.

It must be done.

but now I truly agree with your last line.

[WillyT]

93. Thank You...

[L0oniX]

65. After Rachel Corrie ...I have turned my back on them ...forever!

Yea ...and that wasn't even during any fighting. When you murder peaceful and innocent people that is the end for me.

[WillyT]

66. + 1,000,000,000 What You Said !!!

[JI7]

85. wasn't that an accident ?

[Iamthetruth]

67. You can't negotiate with someone with a win at all cost attitude

When the other side is only interested in the destruction of Israel, what exactly is there to negotiate?

[rhett o rick]

80. Absolutes make it easy to justify. Who speaks for "the other side"?? nm

[nomorenomore08]

105. I think the carpet-bombing of Gaza pretty clearly indicates that "win at all costs"

is not an attitude unique to Hamas.

[jwirr]

69. You are talking about how many of us feel. I have always been horrified by the holocaust and

on the side of the Jewish people who have faced so much in the past. Now it looks like they are doing it. Please Israel - stop.

[global1]

70. The Eye Opener For Me Was When I Picked Up The Dec 1938 Nat'L Geographic Issue At An Antique Store..

back in 2002. It is issue Vol. 74 No. 6

There is an article in it called 'Change Comes To Bible Lands' - along with a - 'Map of Bible Lands and the Cradle of Western Civilization.

I urge all of you to try and get your hands on this issue - read the article - and check out the map.

After I read this article and saw the map - I developed a different perspective on this whole thing.

As an aside - I see all these constant calls for a 4 hour humanitarian stop here and there to this conflict being called to recover bodies, etc. Then resumption of the bombing. How senseless. Just stop this massacre.

I heard an Israeli say - when interviewed and asked if they are afraid to live under conditions where a rocket might hit them - and he said - no - that they were used to this - as this type of thing has been going on for 100's of years.

My gosh - how does anyone want to live under that kind of fear all their lives? It just doesn't make sense. Generations before him lived under this fear and if they don't put a stop to it - his children and grandchildren will have to live under this same fear.

No sensible people on either side wants to live under these conditions. Just sit down at a table and negotiate a peaceful and lasting solution - so that people can live without such fear. Get over it.

[WillyT]

94. Did I Get Close ???

Link: http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/maps/print-collection/bible-lands-map-1938.html

[global1]

99. That's The Map....

You can get a close up view by clicking on it. Click on Tel Aviv and look at the name of the country that Tel Aviv is in.

[WillyT]

100. Check This Out...

DULink: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025314679

Not meant to call you out... meant to let everyone see it, and comment, and help me understand.

[lexx21]

71. It seems to me...

that what the IDF is doing in Gaza is very similar to what the Nazi party did to the Jews in the ghettos. Their memories must be very short not to remember that their own people were the target of racial purification 70 years ago and that they are now the jack booted thugs.

I am really wondering why the other Arab nations aren't stopping this. I am REALLY wondering why the EU hasn't stepped in to stop this.

I am not anti semite, I am not anti muslim. I am however very pro peace.

[Maedhros]

82. "The Bravest Battle" by Dan Kurzman

is a detailed account of the 28 days of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in April 1943.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Bravest-Battle-Twenty-eight-Uprising/dp/0306805332

The foreword states that after one reads this book, one can understand the mindset driving Israeli policy. The leaders of the uprising begged the Western Allies for assistance, but they had conflated Zionists with (gasp!) Communists and withheld material support. The Soviets also declined to help because they were Jewish. Mordecai Anielewicz and the rest of the uprising's leadership confronted the Nazi's alone, knowing that ultimately they would fail but that they must fight back. One can see echoes of that mindset in Israel today.

Sadly, the Israeli state has adopted the methods of their former oppressors.

[BlueCheese]

72. I understand your sentiments and agree with them for the most part.

I think I'm more sympathetic to the plight of Israel than most people here-- I understand that they are surrounded by enemies and people sworn to their utter destruction. I have no illusions about Hamas's desire to kill every single Israeli Jew it can find and the naked, rampant anti-Semitism that pervades much of the Middle East. But I cringe at a lot of what the current Israeli government is doing.

However, a few words of caution to some of the responses:

I'm not sure I understand why some people are relating their experiences with Jewish family and friends and linking it to their views of Israel the country. I don't think you would say something to the effect of, I met a lot of very nice Chinese Americans and love Chinese culture, and am surprised that the Chinese government would act this way.

Please don't compare anyone to the Nazis other than Nazis.

[2banon]

74. Willy, I'm almost 64 yrs old.. the same teaching for me..

I was introduced to that history when given the Diary of Ann Frank when I was 10 years old. By the same person, given the book Nagasaki and Hiroshima. These were my introductions to the horrors of WWII. Shortly after, I was given another book on the Holocaust, I don't recall the title (that might have been it.) Later of course, I read the Third Reich and countless other books on the Nazi's.

Sympathies were always for Israel.

But that worm took a mighty turn with the horrific, demonic, brutal murder of International Peace Activist Rachel Corrie, deliberately run over in Rafah (in Gaza) by an IDF tank, who crushed her body, not once but three times, moving the tank forward and reverse until her body was made into "hamburger meat". This was in 2003..

I said the worm turned for me then, but actually it was the military atrocities that the IDF was waging at that time if memory serves, beginning in 2002. There were many reports of massacres in Janine, Rafah, Nazareth, and countless other areas. I had live-on-air reporting on my radio program at the time while Israeli bombs were dropping everywhere.

My perspective and sympathies have flipped radically since then, though I had already been questioning the underpinning issues prior to that time.

I now understand to the degree of brainwashing we've been through. The media censorship on the history of this has been remarkably successful up until now I think.

I think, the truth is finally beginning to be obvious to most people, except of course the most programmed of defenders.

I join you in prayer..

[WillyT]

95. EXACTLY !!!

[joanbarnes]

75. This certainly describes many of us.........

[ann---]

76. Very well said...

My sentiments, exactly. Israel's "Slaughter of Innocents" operation sickens me. What is worse is America's slanted reporting in the media. Bibi Yahoo is on TV almost every day pushing his propaganda while his minions kill innocents and NOTHING is done about it. No wonder Muslims hate them - and us.

[upaloopa]

77. I ask myself how can a people with the Holocaust

a part of their very resent history inflict genocide on the people of Gaza?
There is no justification for the terrorism Israel is inflicting on the Palestinians.

[stillcool]

79. so very sad..

makes me question all I believe to be true. Watching one of the Israeli reps justifying their actions with a split screen of the hell they are creating is mind-effing. Reminds me of Republicans. The lies don't matter, they're just accepted and repeated..creating a reality that doesn't exist.

[rhett o rick]

81. When we are bombarded by corp-media propaganda, it's hard to know what

the real situation is. Children should never have to die.

[cantbeserious]

84. Yes - Understand - Share The Sentiment

eom

[Autumn]

88. Recommended Willy, you took the words right out of my heart.

[Duval]

96. Thanks, WillyT.

I also read Diary of Anne Frank and saw Exodus, and was so happy for the Jewish people who finally got their "home". But, I'm having similar feelings as you described. It is very sad and disturbing that Israel is being so heavy handed.

[Elmergantry]

97. "Land for Peace"

I guess we can put that concept to rest.

[hopemountain]

101. the children being blown up and murdered

and all of the suffering is beyond disturbing. i am right there with you, willyT

[earthside]

102. Israel is going to lose.

The longer this goes on, the worse it is going to be for Netanyahu and Israel.

It becomes clearer as one looks at history that Israel is way beyond its official and legal 1947 boundaries -- it is occupying land set aside by the UN for the indigenous Palestianian Arab peoples.

Hamas may seem to have a radical agenda vis-à-vis the existence of Israel as a state; however, the blockade of Gaza; the appropriation of 'buffer zones'; the political 'occupation' of Gaza; etc., all means that the residents of Gaza have a right to resist oppression. Indeed, one can certainly make the argument that Israel by its actions is not acknowledging the right of the Palestinian people to exist -- an equally radical position.

The rocketing of Israel under the conditions the Israeli government has imposed on Gaza becomes quite understandable. Israel's argument of 'self-defense' becomes rather less credible.

The more destruction and death exacted on innocents in Gaza ... and discussions about the true story of what Israel has been doing to Gaza and the West Bank, is going to mean more and more countries, like Bolivia, are going to declare Israel a 'terrorist state'.

[2banon]

111. "the residents of Gaza have a right to resist oppression"

Very Well Put, earthside! And this:

Israel by its actions is not acknowledging the right of the Palestinian people to exist -- an equally radical position.

Indeed! That our feckless congress critters choose to keep funding this atrocity in light of the obvious, speaks volumes of what we can expect to come.

[davidpdx]

108. Well put Willy T.

Personally I've never had an opinion either way (strange as it might sound it is true). The latest bombings have really made me wonder what the hell is going on.

[WillyT]

113. Last Kick From Me...