Malaysian state media alleges their Airliner was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter jet!

[betterdemsonly]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by NutmegYankee (a host of the General Discussion forum).

It also says the motivation was mistaken identity for Putin airplane.

9 August 2014

A Thursday article in the New Straits Times, Malaysia’s flagship English-language newspaper, charged the US- and European-backed Ukrainian regime in Kiev with shooting down Malaysian Airlines flight MH 17 in east Ukraine last month. Given the tightly controlled character of the Malaysian media, it appears that the accusation that Kiev shot down MH17 has the imprimatur of the Malaysian state.

The US and European media have buried this remarkable report, which refutes the wave of allegations planted by the CIA in international media claiming that Russian president Vladimir Putin was responsible for the destruction of MH17, without presenting any evidence to back up this charge.

The New Straits Times article, titled “US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft,” lays out evidence that Ukrainian fighter aircraft attacked the jetliner with first a missile, then with bursts of 30-millimeter machine gun fire from both sides of MH17. The Russian army has already presented detailed radar and satellite data showing a Ukrainian Sukhoi-25 fighter jet tailing MH17 shortly before the jetliner crashed. The Kiev regime denied that its fighters were airborne in the area, however.

The New Straits Times article began, “Intelligence analysts in the United States have already concluded that Malaysia flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it. This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a jet that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth..............”

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/08/09/mala-a09.html

[GeorgeGist]

1. Not true according to said same "New Straits Times".

Flight MH17 unlikely shot down by fighter jets: Hishammuddin

BERA: Defence Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein today denied reports in the social media that Malaysia Airlines (MAS) flight MH17 was shot down by fighter jets. http://www.nst.com.my/node/21682

A little fact checking saves embarassment.

[malaise]

2. Expect an attack on the messenger and the source

Truth will out.

[joshcryer]

3. This is a flat out lie from WSWS.

Not that WSWS was ever a paragon of truth and reason.

The New Straits Times says the exact opposite: http://www.nst.com.my/node/21682

This is the NST article he's referring to: http://www.nst.com.my/node/20925

Which cites GlobalResearch of all places which, incidentally, was written by that hack, Robert Parry, who provided no sources or corroborating evidence whatsoever.

Modern day clickbait journalism at its finest.

[betterdemsonly]

4. So they published an article alleging it was shot down by the Ukraine

and a denial from one of their ministers. Not mutally excusive facts. The Global Research article sited Parry who works for Consortium News, and has also been published at Salon, and Alternet. As for providing anonymous sources, so did Woodward and Bernstein.

[Ichingcarpenter]

5. Here's the deal or my take on it.

Here's the deal or my thought on this


The US military/intelligence spy array of satellites across the earth has grown ten fold and ten times more sophisticated since 911. Its seems like the US air force is putting one up every month from Vandenberg since 911.

The satellites are so good they gave an old one to NASA a while back that's is able to see almost as good as Hubble.It was too primitive for them but could read license plates and heat signatures., let alone a surface to air missile launch


No doubt they were observing and monitoring the area at the time because it was a geo/political hotspot

The US could easily show the world who really did what but they don't... why?

It would be a slam dunk to show it to the world just like the missiles of October in Cuba were shown to the world by crappy early 60s technology 52 years ago but they don't.

So again why not?

I feel we are being played by all the players and that includes the Russians, Ukranians and Americans.



US is wasting money on too many spy satellites


THE US government is wasting billions of dollars on spy satellites. According to a report released by Congress last week, the US National Reconnaissance Office, which maintains the nation's eyes in the sky, is buying new satellites at a faster rate than necessary.

The NRO says that regular purchases are the only way to maintain the nation's satellite-building expertise. The Congress report questions this assumption, arguing that any saving in efficiency through increased expertise is outstripped by the cost of launching extra satellites.

We already know the NRO has excess satellites, thanks to its surprise donation in 2012. The spy agency gave NASA parts for two Hubble-quality telescopes that it had lying around. NASA is still deciding how to use the scopes, but to avoid any suspicion of spying will not point them at Earth.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329812.300-us-is-wasting-money-on-too-many-spy-satellites.html#.U-ausI_SHAU.reddit

[randome]

6. Earth is a big planet. To see everything is impossible.

You would need to have your satellites trained on all the areas of action beforehand. Which is always extremely unlikely because of the size of the world. It doesn't matter how many satellites are in orbit, they will never be able to see everything that is happening all the time.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. What a bunch of Obfuscation

'the Whole World'' bullshit which is a base rate fallacy.....

What is a keyhole satellite and what can it really spy on?

The code named Kennan "Keyhole-class" (KH) reconnaissance satellites have been orbiting the Earth for more than 30 years. They are typically used to take overhead photos for military missions. The big question for a lot of people is: "What can they see?"

A KH-12 is a $1 billion satellite that resembles the Hubble Space Telescope, except it is looking at our planet. For security reasons, there are no published orbit schedules for the imagery spacecraft. They are supplemented by the 15-ton Lacrosse-class radar-imaging satellites.

You can think of a KH satellite as a gigantic orbiting digital camera with an incredibly huge lens on it. Optical image reconnaissance satellites use a charge coupled device (CCD) to gather images that make up a digital photograph for transmission back to Earth from an altitude of about 200 miles. Since the satellites are in orbit, they cannot hover over a given area or provide real-time video of a single location.

The satellites are often placed into various secret orbits by NASA space shuttles or Titan 4 rockets and managed by the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), headquartered in Chantilly, Va. Digital images from the satellites are analyzed, manipulated and combined by powerful computers at the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA).

The black and white images are used by the military and civilian communities. Many of the details about this class of satellites remain classified, but it is known that there are several of these overhead at any given time. They have an imaging resolution of 5-6 inches, which means they can see something 5 inches or larger on the ground.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question529.htm



What Did US Spy Satellites See in Ukraine?

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-spy-satellites-see-in-ukraine/

[randome]

9. Sure, they can see stuff 5 inches or larger on the ground.

Do you have any idea how many 5 inch swathes of planetary surface there are? Neither do I. I only know it's a number that would make most calculators squeal, 'EEEEEEE'.

The same with reading license plates from orbit. To read a license plate, the satellite has to already be watching an individual car.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[Ichingcarpenter]

10. you keep saying the whole planet

also ignore infrared launch detection technology.

You got nothing.

No links just opinions.

[randome]

11. Even in just a few thousand square miles, it's impossible to monitor everything.

Unless you think there are thousands of satellites clustered together and every one of them is trained on the Ukraine at just the right moment.

If there were that many satellites together, the cluster would be visible from the surface as a small moon.

Besides, the U.S. has already said that they have evidence of how the jetliner was brought down. It's much more conceivable that Putin, in his 'wisdom' in letting the situation spiral out of control, is responsible for giving heavy armaments to a rag-tag bunch of Crimean yahoos.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[betterdemsonly]

7. If you read the consortium news article by Parry

it might not be a good thing to pin the Ukrainians either, even if true because it could provoke and invasion, and that is more heat between two nuclear nations. Not a good thing.

Still, the idea of assassinating the Russian president by shooting down his plane – even if the attack were carried out by hardliners without the approval of top officials – could have provoked a major international crisis. Nuclear-armed Russia would have almost surely retaliated against Ukraine, possibly with a full-scale invasion which could have escalated into a dangerous military confrontation with the United States.

This possibility of a cascading crisis beyond the control of rational policymakers has always been a risk since the U.S.-backed overthrow of elected Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych on Feb. 22, a putsch spearheaded by neo-Nazi militias though also supported by more moderate political figures. The U.S. State Department quickly embraced the coup regime as “legitimate,” but ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine, which had been Yanukovych’s political base, resisted the new order.

Crimea, another stronghold of ethnic Russians, voted overwhelmingly to secede from Ukraine and rejoin Russia, a move endorsed by Putin and backed by Russian troops who were stationed in Crimea, the site of the Russian naval base at Sebastopol. The annexation of Crimea was heartily denounced by President Barack Obama and U.S. allies in Europe, who began applying sanctions on Russia.

Meanwhile, the new Ukrainian government, which gave the neo-Nazis several ministries in appreciation for their key role in the coup, began calling the ethnic Russian resistance “terrorists.” New National Guard units, formed from neo-Nazi militias, were dispatched to intimidate ethnic Russians in the southern city of Odessa, where scores were killed when a pro-Kiev mob set a trade union building ablaze.

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/08/was-putin-targeted-for-mid-air-assassination/

[Ichingcarpenter]

13. Yeah I read it and I'm

not pinning it on anyone yet, but the Putin plane was in the area which has been documented through other sources thought it was 30 mins behind or ahead of the doomed flight.

I don't trust any of the players.

Useful idiots or controlled opposition, are both used by Russian and the US intelligence and are masters of these two covert operations which is possible.

Rogue west ukrainians or rogue eastern ukrainians both are possible scenarios even using opposition uniforms to perform the nasty deed,
which might have been seen by the satellite which puts the question of who did the deed still in a quandary.

Just my 2 cents

The air to air missile can be determined IF the planes parts can be put in a hangar under forensic examination, but I don't see that happening.

[MohRokTah]

12. Have you got a REAL source for this nonsense?

WSWS is bullshit.

[FSogol]

14. Another pantload from wsws. Remember when DU banned posters who posted crap like this?

[SidDithers]

16. I miss Hannah Bell...

Sid

[SidDithers]

15. wsws...

parotting the RT / globalresearch / Robert Parry conspiracy theory.

Too fucking hilarious, dameocrat.

Sid

[NutmegYankee]

17. Locking.

Conspiracy theories and disruptive meta-discussion are forbidden.

Please post such articles here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1135