WOW! Swedish Dad fed up with his sons' obsessions with violent Call of Duty computer game

[snagglepuss]

takes them to SYRIA to put them off guns... and it worked


A father took his two young sons who are fans of war games to Israel and Syria to a dramatic bid to teach them about the harsh realities of war and the devastation caused by the use of guns.

Carl-Magnus Helgegren is a Swedish journalist, university teacher, and a father of two boys, Leo, 11 and Frank, 10.

Mr Helgegren told MailOnline that was inspired to take his sons on the trip after they asked if they could buy the new violent shooter game when they were eating dinner last year and he became concerned that they did not understand the impact of war.


snip


He decided to make a bet with his two sons - if they visited an area which has been plagued by war and tension and spoke to citizens there, then they would be able to play any video game they desired on their return.









Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2722609/Swedish-father-fed-sons-obsessions-violent-Call-Duty-computer-game-takes-SYRIA-guns-worked.html#ixzz3ADcs0TTV
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[Dr Hobbitstein]

1. That's an asshole dad, right there...

Violent video games hurt no one. Taking your kids to a war torn country is fucking dangerous.

[snagglepuss]

8. If that is so then why do his kids see a connection.

[LittleBlue]

12. Because he forced his views on them

It's no different than a parent who indoctrinates their child in a religion and then claims the children have a choice. They don't. They know that by rejecting their father's beliefs, it will cause problems in the family.

So to keep the peace, they adopt his beliefs.

Nothing worse than a parent who intimidates his children into accepting his views.

[snagglepuss]

69. Bullocks. Taking kids to another country and letting them see something firsthand is

the antithesis of indoctrination

[elleng]

81. right, its TEACHING!

[nomorenomore08]

95. Y'know, I frequently disagree with you, but I can't really find fault with this post.

Especially considering the very young age of the boys - if they're too young for "Call of Duty" then they're way too young to see actual armed conflict up close.

[Scootaloo]

101. I have no complaint with the view of "war is bad" being forced on someone

[LittleBlue]

107. What does that have to do with video games? nt

[sabrina 1]

119. He showed them reality. They were living in a fantasy world.

What is wrong with giving someone an actual demonstration of what they are interested in?

[cui bono]

125. Oh bullshit. He allowed them to see the horrors of war and violence in reality.

And anyway, they are 10 and 11. He could have just not allowed them to play the games.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

25. First off, if you don't want your 11 year old to play violent video games,

then you take them away from them.

It's called being a parent.

Second, if you're so worried about the violence, why in the FUCK would you take your children to a war torn country?

[Warren DeMontague]

48. because it's a fad in Sweden to do inane shit with your kids to make a half-assed public point?

http://www.thelocal.se/20090623/20232

[Dr Hobbitstein]

82. While inane,

keeping a gender a secret is a bit more nuanced than take your kids to war day.

[Warren DeMontague]

86. It'd be nuanced if it wasn't done in "lookatmeeeee" blogger fashion.

It wasn't about trying to raise their toddler outside of rigid gender expectations, it was about using their kid as a social justice warrior internet spectacle.


Besides, the whole article in the OP is BS. I don't want to get into the reeds as to whether the Golan Heights is "really" Syria, the fact of the matter is there's a huge real-world difference between taking the kids to the Golan and taking them to Damascus.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

90. Ahh, I see...

I just glanced at the headline of the article you posted. Didn't realize they were fart-sniffing bloggers... I was too busy killing Disney villains in Kingdom Hearts to read the whole thing.

[LordGlenconner]

100. "it's called being a parent"

By any measure this thread should have ended right there. Well said.

[kcr]

14. Couldn't agree more

They're 10 and 11 years old. How hard is it to keep videogames you don't want them playing out of the house? Because that's what the rest of the world and their problems are there for. What an entitled jackass.

[cemaphonic]

18. Yeah, that's ridiculously irresponsible.

I wouldn't let kids that young play Call of Duty either, but there are plenty non-insane of ways to get across the idea that fictional violence and real violence are very different things. Most kids older than about 4 don't really have much trouble with that concept anyway.

[Barack_America]

93. Except when you remember that's how some people LIVE...

...and theirs is a plight children should be aware of. Perhaps not at such an early age, but why should our children be shielded from reality?

[BrotherIvan]

111. Exactly this

I can't believe we think American children should be so wadded in cotton wool they can't see where other children live every day.

[Puzzledtraveller]

105. Agreed

[arikara]

109. I wouldn't have let my kids play violent games either

if had they existed when I had youngsters. Because I do think they are harmful. And I seriously doubt he had his boys in the line of fire. Its kind of like that old documentary "Scared Straight". It was effective.

[bvar22]

120. Yeah... we didn't have those violent video games when I was a kid.

Instead, we picked up sticks,
pretended they were guns,
and shot each other with those,
or watched it on TV,
all day long.

[NaturalHigh]

115. Agreed completely.

The dad is an attention-seeking moron. He should be charged with child endangerment.

[NM_Birder]

123. LOL,... wonder if he'll get em hookers, when they are infatuated with girls.

[Rex]

2. Yes, pixels are the SAME as bullets!

Another tired canard that won't rest.

[randome]

3. Good for him.

If you 'play' by pretending to violently murder people, it has an effect on you.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[Dr Hobbitstein]

4. I grew up on violent video game...

From Wolfenstein 3D to Doom to Postal.

Hell, in Postal, I like to play a total psychopath. Randomly kick down doors and murder everyone inside, then walk away like nothing happened.

In real life, I'm a pacifist who hates REAL violence. But as a rational-thinking human, I can differentiate between simulated violence and real violence.

Violent video games do NOT induce violent behavior. That tired trope has been disproved time and again. Before that it was violent movies and TV shows. Once again, disproved.

[randome]

7. Another anecdotal 'proof'. We've seen that far too many times in these discussions.

Your personal experience does not alter the fact that the more violence we surround ourselves with, the odds increase that those who aren't as 'steady' as you will become more violent in real life.

Especially when referring to young individuals whose brains may still be developing.

It's the odds we should remain aware of, not the personal experience of Dr. Hobbitstein.

And we don't even need to speak about physical violence. Some younger individuals succumb to an idea: that it's okay to be vicious in interactions with others.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[Warren DeMontague]

15. That's not a "fact", that's something you just said in an authoritative-sounding fashion.

Which doesnt make it a "fact".

[KittyWampus]

28. Fact- what you feed your subconscious has an effect on you.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. That's not a "fact", that's a nice-sounding aphorism.

[Puzzledtraveller]

104. So my 10 years of faithfully playing FFXI online

Has turned me into a wannabe Moogle, I go around calling everyone Kupo. I swear the jerks come out on these threads.. It's the "Since I don't do <insert thing here> then it must be bad and maybe should be band" contingent.

[Rex]

17. 97% of young Americans play video games...gee, why are they not out doing crimes by the dozens?

You are a funny person claiming the OP has no data...and then showing none whatsoever to back up your own claims. Hypocrite much?

[Warren DeMontague]

21. Ted Bundy said porn turns people into serial killers!

Which is why we have 200 Million Serial Killers running around the US at any given moment.

[Rex]

35. So all those billions of people that look at pron daily on the WWW are going to eventually

turn into serial killers!? That is like a BILLION people! We better find another habitable planet and fast Warren! I don't know if we can handle those kinds of numbers!

[Warren DeMontague]

42. It already happened.

Internet porn has been readily available for a couple decades, even before that we had VHS tapes and Debbie Does Dallas.

By my math, we're all already chopped up into little bits, and dead.

[Rex]

50. That explains it then!

I KNEW somebody downloaded my mind onto a floppy disk! Been feeling kinda tinny lately.

[Warren DeMontague]

52. Indeed, I remember the humble floppy disk

heh, we're showin' our age, aren't we!

[Rex]

56. Yes and sadly, my entire mind fit onto a 5.25 floppy!

[Warren DeMontague]

65. That's OK. I hear they can do amazing things with compression formats, these days.

[Rex]

68. Nice...a very woody picture!

Not tinny at all!

[Warren DeMontague]

73. Did you watch that show?

I thought it was hysterical, myself.

[Rex]

74. Didn't see it, but I did notice the ahem...rising data chart.

Very woody!

[Warren DeMontague]

75. Yeah, that's deliberate. If you get a chance, check it out.

It started off slow, but there were definitely some moments

[Rex]

77. I will thanks!

Always looking for something new to watch.

[bravenak]

102. I watched it.

Priceless. The jack off episode was excellent.

[nomorenomore08]

96. Illustrating perfectly why "moral panics" are generally utter bullshit.

[randome]

31. This is my evidence.

I would bet 98% of DUers -if not more- agree that the level of right-wing discourse has a detrimental effect on our nation. How often have we stated that the right-wing noise machine has impacted the direction of this country?

How is that possible if we cannot be influenced by external events?

After all, it's just words and words have much less of an impact than realistic graphics, no?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[Rex]

37. What does the RWing noise machine have to do with spawn points and pixels?

You need some actual factual data...not more of this, "because I say so".

I see now, because they are 'realistic' graphics...you believe someone will forget what is real and what is virtual and go on a rampage in RL! Thanks for letting me see how your mind works, it explains your faulty logic to a T.

[randome]

44. It can't be proven any more than it can be proven that Fox News impacts society.

Face it, the more people fill their minds with violence, the more the odds will favor some of those people going off the rails.

It's never a 100% certainty of anything. If that's what you need to understand how the subconscious works, I am not the 'expert' for you.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[Warren DeMontague]

39. I think the right-wing discourse reflects the views of right wingers.

People don't become vampires because they read vampire books and watch vampire movies.

[randome]

46. No one said they did. But when great numbers of people immerse themselves in virtual reality...

...a virtual reality filled with violence porn , then it stands to reason that some of them -not all- will turn out the worse for it.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[Warren DeMontague]

49. It stands to reason if you accept, tautologically, that it stands to reason.

Unfortunately for your assertion, there's zero corroborating real-world evidence. "Violent" video games don't make people violent.

[randome]

53. Some people get physically excited about playing video games.

Funny they don't feel that excitement about, oh, playing chess or something. I wonder what makes the difference?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[Warren DeMontague]

55. It's funny?

Can't people do both?

I appreciate Chess AND I appreciate Titanfall, for entirely different reasons. One involves a mathematical precision of potential logical moves and counter-moves, the other involves hand-eye coordination, reflexes, teamwork, understanding your opponents and certainly a bit of luck.

[randome]

64. But we're not talking about you.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[Warren DeMontague]

66. You're not.

I am.

So we are at an impasse, sir.

[Rex]

58. There is no tactile stimuli in the virtual world. When I get my arm blown off in a video game it

doesn't hurt...now I've NEVER met a person or heard of a person saying, "gee real life MUST be just like this video game!" "Time for some real grand theft auto...no doubt the cops will let me respawn!"

[randome]

63. No one is saying there is a direct correlation to any of those things.

But immerse a society in violence and you will have more incidents of violence. It's axiomatic in the same way we know that immersing a society in peaceful pursuits will likely result in a more peaceful society.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[Warren DeMontague]

71. Actually, the development of video games has correlated to a decrease in actual violent crime.

Not only that, but the world is far more peaceful now than it was in the past. The trend is away from war.

I don't think that's a cause-and-effect relationship, actually I think violence is driven by other factors, demographics, economics... but it is pretty fucking dubious to assert that somehow the development of the xbox and the playstation has fed into some increase in real-world violence.

[NaturalHigh]

116. But people who read the "Hannibal" books turn into cannibals!

I'm Series!!1!

You don't even want to know what might happen to someone who reads 50 Shades of Gray!

[DonCoquixote]

97. evidence

is not that "I would bet" soem peopleagree with you. You want to talk like a scientist, get some damn statistics, especially if you are going to slap someone for using ancedotes.

Second, the stuff that influences polticis is meant and targeted as politics, even if it really should be considered enterainment, such as Fox news. But outside of the "bioshock" series, games are not attempting to talk about politics.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

24. Except it's not just my personal experience...

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/inside-out-outside-in/201212/violent-video-games-and-movies-causing-violent-behavior

[DonCoquixote]

98. see, if people want to play scientist

they get some frigging stats do research!

[cui bono]

126. I agree with you.

It's not necessarily a direct correlation but subconsciously it must affect people. One cannot help but be affected on some level my their environment. We all know how advertising can affect people on that level, why not video games?

I would certainly never let my 10-11 year old children play something so violent as COD. And those games are getting very realistic looking with graphics the way they are today.

[Blue_Tires]

118. Good points

As someone who has been gaming since the early days, I can't speak for the kids in that story -- But I have observed the occasional "take it too literally" players in the community, especially in the military shooter genre (At one time I was an everyday poster on a dozen gaming/clan forums while lurking at a couple dozen more)...Not necessarily that "I want to shoot up my classroom" mindset, but the "war a fun, inconsequential, clean game" attitude where some kid thinks because he's crushing nubcakes and going 125-5 with the ol' AK-47, he's a super-solider in the making and a natural for some kind of real-life battlefield setting...

If that was the attitude shown by the kids in the OP, I fully understand and support dad wanting to give them a reality check -- I don't fully understand and support taking them out to Syria to make a point, though...

(and just to make this a proper gamer's thread, I have to say the COD franchise fucking blows)

[BrotherIvan]

5. I'm not against video games

But I do think travel, and not necessarily to resorts or beautiful spots, is important education for everyone. Visiting India as a child and seeing true poverty and children my own age as house servants made a gigantic impact on my world view.

Many Americans think their world is defined by their possessions. Interacting with people who don't have any or people who find great happiness in other ways is necessary to build compassion and expand one's view of the world. I wish more parents would make travel a top priority to save for rather than some other, less meaningful purchases.

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Travel to syria?

Why not start with Hawaii?

[BrotherIvan]

110. Because that won't teach them anything

Keeping them in their bubble is not the point. I'm not advocating war zones, but people do live there right now. Are American children not supposed to know about it? I know very few Americans who have actually travelled in third world countries. They have no idea how people live and so can keep thinking the entire world is just like them. Keeping children safe is important. Keeping them ignorant is not.

[LittleBlue]

6. What an idiot. Risking the lives of his children for a

"LOOK AT MEEEEEE" moment.

Selfish and stupid. He could have just said they weren't getting the game.

[Warren DeMontague]

13. Well, nothing is more important than MAKING A POINT ™

Chalk up another victory for Internet Social Justice Warriordom!

now if you'll excuse me, this pacifist hippie needs to go blow up some people in Titanfall.

[LittleBlue]

16. You should take your children to Liberia right now

They think they don't need to wash their hands, but wait until they see Ebola! How funny is it now, kids?

[Warren DeMontague]

19. Man... Ebola doesnt fuck around.

Seriously, we spend a trillion dollars on defense against "enemies"- you ask me, that fucker is the definition of an enemy.

As is anything with a 50-90% mortality rate.

I'd feel better if we threw some of that "defense" funding against it.

[Warren DeMontague]

9. Except "violent" video games have jack shit to do with actual violence and war.

But i realize this plays to the get off my lawn demographic.

[Enrique]

10. reminds me of Bobby Brady

when he was on his Jesse James kick, and Mike knew how to handle it:

[trumad]

11. My kids played every game in the video world.

None own guns or have a desire to shoot any.

People who think there's a correlation between video games and real violence are morans.

[Warren DeMontague]

20. They're at least as detrimental as comic books and rock and roll!

[joeybee12]

23. Judging by the responses, education is apparently a bad thing...

Who knew DU was against education, pro-Putin, loves the brilliant Condol-liar Rice...what a clusterphuck today here.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

26. You dropped this...

[joeybee12]

32. Nice try

Apparently you think kids learning about the ravages of war is a bad thing...my apologies.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

34. One can learn of the ravages of war

without their father taking them to a war torn country.

Shit like that can scar a kid for life. In very bad ways.

[Rex]

41. So they cannot learn about it from their own home? They needed to take a risk so the kids

understood the video game they are playing is EXACTLY like real life war!? Seriously that is a clusterfuck of a notion, glad I don't think like you do.

[Warren DeMontague]

88. Actually, now that I know it was the Golan Heights he took the kids to, I'm more on the side of

"goofy grandstanding combined with hyperbolic journalism" than actual putting the kids in danger.

[LittleBlue]

27. Education or intimidation?

If your father went so far as to drag you to a warzone to prove a point, wouldn't you, as a 10- or 11-year-old, feel enormous pressure to acquiesce to your father's wishes?

He's a pathetic bully cloaking his intimidation in a learning experience.

I wonder how DU would feel about a Catholic parent who drags his atheist child to the Vatican, and thus converts him through force. Somehow I doubt it would get the same reaction.

[joeybee12]

29. Drag?

He didn't drag them there...youare assuming an awful lot,a nd it's not indoctrination, FFS

[KittyWampus]

30. He didn't "drag them". He made a deal with them.

[LittleBlue]

47. Ah yes, a deal with a child

"Do this or I'll be very disappointed in you"

There's only one winner in that sort of deal.

[NuclearDem]

36. Careful, that straw's flammable.

[Warren DeMontague]

43. Taking your kids to Syria because you don't want them playing Call of Duty is "education"?

How about just saying "you can't play call of duty"?

[Lancero]

117. I think most think that taking your children to a war torn country...

To turn them off of a specific type of video game, when you could just as easily not buy them the game, is why people kinda disagree with this.

Frankly, the father is a idiot. He didn't need to spend money to go to another country - He just needed to grow a spine and tell his children "No, I will not buy that for you" when they ask for him to buy them adult rated video games.

[conservaphobe]

33. What a dumbass. nt

[NuclearDem]

40. Oh boy, not this again.

People who are already maladjusted aren't going to get any better with games like that.

BUT.

Games like COD aren't going to turn otherwise healthy kids violent. Give them a very wrong impression of war? Absolutely. But they're not going to turn into murderers because of it.

[Warren DeMontague]

45. I'm ready to start stomping around town in a giant, heavily armored mech, myself.

Fucking A yes INDEED

[Warren DeMontague]

54. DU's particular, ah, demographics are thrown into stark relief when words like "video games" come up

"Whatever happened to Sock Hops? Now there was some wholesome entertainment!"

[chrisa]

59. That's the Devil's work, mister!

If you want music, go to church!

[cemaphonic]

62. And now, lets all enjoy a nice song and cartoon from a simpler era:

To be fair, the song in the Fleischer cartoon isn't even in the running for the filthiest version of "Barnacle Bill the Sailor."

[Warren DeMontague]

67. No, that's totally true.

[Puzzledtraveller]

106. Seriously

It's also the "I don't engage in <insert activity here> therefore it must not be good and may even be bad for you" contingent. Video Game Teetotallers.

[malaise]

51. Great dad

War is never a game

[Codeine]

70. But video games

are always games.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

85. +1 n/t

[Iron Man]

57. So the dad obviously doesn't understand that Call of Duty isn't real.

Idiot father of the year right there.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

60. Color me impressed --

A father who saw the disconnect in his sons and wanted to set them straight. I have no problem with the way he went about it.

[MrScorpio]

61. That's a good age to find out about the real world nt

[BrotherIvan]

112. Yes, it is

But apparently some think it's child abuse to take your kid anywhere other than Disneyland or Hawaii. Because kids don't live in war torn countries. And seeing what the world is like may scar them for life.

[Capt. Obvious]

72. Where can I take my daughter to get her off Minecraft?

Legoland didn't work and it was an expensive rip-off.

[Rex]

76. I dunno, but keep an eye on her if she moves on to Warcraft.

Evidently according to some here, it is a red flag.

[Capt. Obvious]

78. was that said by our griefers?

[Rex]

79. LOL!

[Warren DeMontague]

80. Minecraft is an amazing phenomenon.

People who ignore the wider cultural and technological implications, do so at their peril... or at least at the peril of being hopelessly left in the dust.

https://medium.com/message/the-secret-of-minecraft-97dfacb05a3c

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-game-that-conquered-the-world/361615/

[cemaphonic]

84. Surely there is a forest nearby?

10 minutes punching trees with no lumber to show for it should teach her the error of her ways.

[Capt. Obvious]

89. Heh, heh heh

We have a swamp. Is that where she go to the Ether?

[Warren DeMontague]

83. Pah. Clickbait, anyway. He didn't take them to "SYRIA" per se, he took them to the Golan Heights.

Oh, yes, technically part of Syria.... well, guess what. The Golan Heights is never going to be actual Syria, again.

What he did was, he took them To Israel.

[Adam051188]

87. top quality dad right there

video games can be fun, but detachment from reality is dangerous.

[Oakenshield]

91. Is the ESRB system a closely guarded secret?

Or are parents today just a bunch of stuck-up dolts?

[americannightmare]

92. How did he force his beliefs on them?

he told them if they experienced firsthand what real guns do to human beings and still wanted to play their flippin' video games, they could...I applaud the superior Scandinavian mind to take advantage of a teachable moment! Every American should have to spend time in war-torn countries before they agree to be complicit in the destruction of lives whose only crime is that they were not born in the U.S. or Israel.

[jeff47]

108. His superior Scandinavian mind that didn't notice

that his choice of war-torn location hadn't seen war since 1967.

[cemaphonic]

114. Superior Swedish mind?

Are you a time traveler from the '40s or something?

[mackerel]

94. I like this part:

"He decided to make a bet with his two sons - if they visited an area which has been plagued by war and tension and spoke to citizens there, then they would be able to play any video game they desired on their return."

Excellent idea, and in my view, good and responsible parenting.

[Warren DeMontague]

99. And then instead, he took them to the Golan Heights, which hasn't been plagued by war since 1967.

However, it's very lovely and they do have some excellent wineries and organic farms.

[unrepentant progress]

103. And then he had them talk to Burt Mustin

You know, just in case they get hooked on that new Jesse James videogame.

[cemaphonic]

113. I like to teach my videogame-loving son that they are mostly made of math

and that by learning math and programming, he could make computer games and other neat stuff too.

[johnlucas]

121. Guy did the right thing. From now on, they will understand reality from fantasy

I don't think Call of Duty makes people violent.
But it IS good that people who play these games understand the consequences of gun lust.
So that when they play in the future, they understand that the videogame is just fantasy land & they will have respect for the costs of war in real life.

I played the violent Mortal Kombat games as a teenager but the whole time I understood that this was gory fantasy.
I understood that you don't solve your problems with decapitation.
Violent games can be cathartic dump for the violent impulses we ALL have.
I would rather someone shoot & decapitate an image of light than to shoot & decapitate a real human being.
Those who run over innocent citizens in Grand Theft Auto may get all that ugliness out of his/her system & not want to run over someone in real life in a fit of road rage.

Anyone who is hand-wringing over violent games better take note of those old John Wayne movies.
Got a lot of wannabe Clint Eastwoods & Charles Bronsons out here confusing movie fantasy with real life.
Thinking they can solve all of their problems with a gun.

I played DOOM, Goldeneye 007, Perfect Dark, Timesplitters with all its guns & bombs.
In real life I CAN'T STAND guns & don't want 'em anywhere NEAR me.

The father did the right thing by making sure they don't mistake fantasy with reality.
When they play Call of Duty & games like that in the future, they will be in the right mindset.
The American Public got confused & saw the 2003 Iraq War as a videogame (Shock & Awe) because they haven't dealt with war on their soil in 150 years.
It's just images of light on the screen with Da Good Guys & Da Bad Guys. Who's gonna win?
I think more Americans in general need to see what war really is.
Maybe that'll stop all that rah-rah & zest to start another one.

John Lucas

[Regrell]

122. To all the naysayers here re: video games and detrimental effects...

Will CoD make your child a murderer? Of course not.

But here's what it will do...it will glamorize war. The very lack of visceral feedback when you get killed and resurrected instantly, or shoot the arm off of someone, is what will desensitize kids to violence and make them less likely to understand the danger of violence in the real world. They themselves may not feel motivated to hurt, but they will idolize cool war tech. They won't react the same way to stories and images of real wars. They might grow up more sympathetic to the war machine, not see any problem with dropping insane amounts of money on wars.

These are the real dangers.

I love video games, I've worked in the industry. My bottom line is that it's not violence per se, but how it's contextualized and presented. My favorite games of all time are the Oddworld stories, which can be quite gruesome and violent, but the reluctant hero tells a good story of escaping slavery and preventing the genocide of his people and the destruction of the natural world. There are many teachable moments in these games. Some FPS games have narrative missions, some don't, some contextualize violence, and in others it's wanton free-for-all.

I think it's important for parents to play these games with their kids, ask the right questions about how their children are digesting violence (and problematic depictions of women and minorities and everyone else).

I don't think bans are the answer, and I don't think unfettered access is either. I don't like authoritarian nanny-ists and I don't like kneejerk apologist fanboys either.

[Warren DeMontague]

127. You know what I don't like? Hyberbolic daily fail clickbait headlines which contain deliberate lies.

To wit, he didn't take them to "Syria" (or SYRIA, for that matter) he took them to the Golan Heights, which has been administered by Israel for 47 years --- and hardly qualifies as a current "war zone".

[stevenleser]

124. There are very realistic war movies that would have done the same trick while not exposing the kids

to a war zone. Here are a few choices:

- All's Quiet on the Western Front

- Saving Private Ryan

- Platoon

- Hamburger Hill

- Band of Brothers

- Generation Kill

- Black Hawk Down

- The Battle of Algiers

- Full Metal Jacket

- Apocalypse Now

Have the kids spend a month where they watch 2-3 of those movies a weekend.

[Regrell]

128. I dunno, I'm not sure kids internalize media the same way

This is just my own experience, but I remember watching Full Metal Jacket and Apocalypse Now and coming away with a sense that war is some crazy fucked up shit, but damn aren't these characters kinda awesome. Followed by Halloween costumes of Private Pyle, and rampant quoting of the drill sergeant and the love you long time prostitute. I don't recall any nuanced discussions about the horrors of war.

Same thing with Clockwork Orange, Trainspotting, or any # of films which a more reflective adult would process seriously. Sometimes kids just need to be shocked into the real world.