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Wed Aug 13, 2014, 01:33 PM

 

A short rant about the need for victims to be perfect & react perfectly to violence and oppression

I am sick of hearing about how victims and victimized communities should react to violence and oppression. The reality is when faced with violence and oppression and constant discrimination, most of us break social mores. However, i really hate how much the media focuses on these 'riots' or 'looting' rather than what instigated these transgressions. Also, in my experience the media grossly exaggerates about how bad things are (remember, Katrina) when covering the transgressions of the victimized community.

I literally can't stand it.

Victims and victimized communities do not need to be perfect to have certain inalienable civil rights.


74 replies, 5077 views

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Reply A short rant about the need for victims to be perfect & react perfectly to violence and oppression (Original post)
La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 OP
arcane1 Aug 2014 #1
La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #2
rbrnmw Aug 2014 #3
bigtree Aug 2014 #4
Bonx Aug 2014 #5
La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #6
Bonx Aug 2014 #12
Maedhros Aug 2014 #26
Little Star Aug 2014 #8
Bonx Aug 2014 #14
malaise Aug 2014 #50
mountain grammy Aug 2014 #58
malaise Aug 2014 #59
RadiationTherapy Aug 2014 #10
MindPilot Aug 2014 #13
Bonx Aug 2014 #16
MindPilot Aug 2014 #22
arcane1 Aug 2014 #15
La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #18
el_bryanto Aug 2014 #17
Bonx Aug 2014 #19
el_bryanto Aug 2014 #21
La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #20
VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #23
Little Star Aug 2014 #68
leftstreet Aug 2014 #25
cui bono Aug 2014 #29
sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #43
tenderfoot Aug 2014 #28
cui bono Aug 2014 #32
Scootaloo Aug 2014 #36
La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #37
sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #38
Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #47
Exultant Democracy Aug 2014 #48
Chellee Aug 2014 #60
LanternWaste Aug 2014 #53
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #57
XemaSab Aug 2014 #7
La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #9
Orrex Aug 2014 #24
cui bono Aug 2014 #27
XemaSab Aug 2014 #30
cui bono Aug 2014 #33
Name removed Aug 2014 #62
XemaSab Aug 2014 #64
Name removed Aug 2014 #65
irisblue Aug 2014 #67
BlindTiresias Aug 2014 #34
cui bono Aug 2014 #35
redqueen Aug 2014 #40
me b zola Aug 2014 #11
PowerToThePeople Aug 2014 #31
Hoyt Aug 2014 #39
La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #49
Louisiana1976 Aug 2014 #41
xchrom Aug 2014 #42
Bacchus4.0 Aug 2014 #44
Exultant Democracy Aug 2014 #52
Uncle Joe Aug 2014 #45
Taitertots Aug 2014 #46
TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #72
Taitertots Aug 2014 #74
clyrc Aug 2014 #51
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #54
Quayblue Aug 2014 #55
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #56
La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #70
Shrike47 Aug 2014 #61
ashling Aug 2014 #63
Name removed Aug 2014 #66
La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #69
Blue_Tires Aug 2014 #71
Avalux Aug 2014 #73

Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 01:41 PM

1. One broken shop window is a much more "sexy" news item than a dozen vigils

 

Especially when trying to create a narrative that not-so-subtly says "the victim had it coming"

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 01:43 PM

2. yeah. just like focusing on the naked person at the gay pride parades

 

and ignoring the dozens of civil rights groups/religious groups etc.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 01:53 PM

3. I am sick of it too

They try to demonize the resistance by showing things like the QT mart instead of the peaceful vigils. They try to besmirch the character of the dead victims who can't defend themselves. I look for a George Zimmerman type excuse for the shooting the cop will have marks supposedly inflicted by Mike Brown.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 01:55 PM

4. it's understandable to measure that emotional reaction against what's being protested

. . .As the family said, shortly after the killing, violent and destructive reactions would not be in line with the wishes of the victim.

However, those reactions are a predictable and almost inevitable consequence of police brutality directed toward a particular community or racial (or otherwise) group of citizens acting within the law.

During the civil rights protests in the '50's and '60's we could see the same violent reactions, and there evolved a decidedly more peaceful, non-violent response from other quarters which was in very direct and active conflict with each others tactics and expressions of protest.

What evolved, and what I believed prevailed for the better, was a leadership (mainly from the churches) which developed and adhered to non-violent protests which provided a useful and ultimately productive contrast with the government's and individual violent acts of brutality and discrimination.

I hope they can organize that kind of response.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:01 PM

5. I'm sick of people tacitly defending looting & rioting



There's no valid excuse for the looting & rioting in Ferguson. None.

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Response to Bonx (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:06 PM

6. LOL.

 

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #6)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:22 PM

12. Alrighty then.

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Response to Bonx (Reply #12)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:43 PM

26. Nobody here is defending looting and rioting.[n/t]

 

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Response to Bonx (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:15 PM

8. Double LOL....

you can't be that naive.

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Response to Little Star (Reply #8)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:23 PM

14. Naive to think that others would also condemn criminal activity ?

Yeah, I guess.

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Response to Bonx (Reply #14)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:33 PM

50. Did you condemn the criminal activity of the cop who murdered

the unarmed youth?

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Response to malaise (Reply #50)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:24 PM

58. Exactly! Let's hear the media condemn the shooting of an unarmed teenager..

along with condemning all violence. Let's not forget the violence that sparked this.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #58)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:28 PM

59. You have to wonder if they don't have agents provocateurs

who start these riots to obfuscate from the real crime of murder by cop

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Response to Bonx (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:17 PM

10. "valid." Sure. Not a drop of subjectivity in that word.

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Response to Bonx (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:22 PM

13. So the people of Ferguson should pool their money and hire a lawyer?

 

And then the terrorists in blue will magically change after seeing the error of their ways?

Yeah, those are some colorful unicorn farts right there.

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Response to MindPilot (Reply #13)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:24 PM

16. Non sequitur-ville

Welcome.

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Response to Bonx (Reply #16)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:31 PM

22. Apparently that was your destination.

 

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Response to Bonx (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:23 PM

15. Well today is your lucky day! The OP is not doing anything close to that.

 

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:25 PM

18. ..

 

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Response to Bonx (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:24 PM

17. I totally agree!

Cops should be allowed to gun down whoever they like, and there is nothing more important than protecting property rights. The police are there to serve and protect the right kind of people, and if some of the wrong kind of people suffer some inconveniences that's a small price to pay.

Bryant.

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #17)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:27 PM

19. That makes no sense

But defending looting and rioting in Ferguson is nonsensical.

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Response to Bonx (Reply #19)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:31 PM

21. So you say agreeing with you makes no sense? I guess I can't argue with that. nt

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #17)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:27 PM

20. ..

 

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Response to Bonx (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:33 PM

23. "A riot is the language of the unheard" ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

 



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Response to VanGoghRocks (Reply #23)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 05:04 PM

68. +10000000000000000000000000

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Response to Bonx (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:41 PM

25. You may be missing the OP's point

In terms of attitudes and media coverage especially

Remember this?



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Response to leftstreet (Reply #25)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:53 PM

29. I remember that. That was so clearly racist.

I don't think that's the same thing as this though. That was a situation where people needed to get items for survival. The looting in a situation such as Ferguson is opportunistic. Now were the people doing it screwed by the system, by systemic racism? I'm sure of it, but it the stealing isn't directly related to the killing. I can understand destructive behavior coming out of anger, but stealing just because you can isn't making any statement about the cops murdering an innocent kid.

Doesn't excuse the way the media covers it, but gives media cover.

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #25)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:18 PM

43. That was unbelievable, I remember it well.

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Response to Bonx (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:51 PM

28. I say that every time my tax dollars go to Corporations!

Stop the looting of the middle class!

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Response to Bonx (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:56 PM

32. I don't think the OP defends it, but is stating that the media covers that rather than the root

of the problem, which is what instigated it. The murder of an innocent kid by a cop.

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Response to Bonx (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:59 PM

36. Yeah well I got sick of some DU'ers using a black child's grades to justify his murder

 

Windows can be replaced. People cannot. Get your fucking priorties straight.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #36)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:10 PM

37. yup. nt

 

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Response to Bonx (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:11 PM

38. How do you feel about the cops repeatedly brutalizing and killing African Americans in this country?

I don't know, maybe it's me, but a broken window V a dead teenager?? No contest!

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Response to Bonx (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:25 PM

47. A Dream Deferred.... please read it and try to understand

how it relates to the OP.


A Dream Deferred
by Langston Hughes

What happens to a dream deferred?

Does it dry up
like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?

Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.

Or does it explode?

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Response to Bonx (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:29 PM

48. Just out of curiosity what is a valid excuse for a riot?

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Response to Exultant Democracy (Reply #48)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:32 PM

60. I'll just bet that it's when the BLM asks you to pay your grazing fees.

I doubt he was troubled by that unlawful activity.

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Response to Bonx (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:40 PM

53. When the disfranchised voice has nothing more to lose, don't look for a rational or valid response.

When the disfranchised voice has nothing more to lose, don't look for a rational or valid response-- as those rational and valid responses have to date, yielded them nothing.

That's not a defense... that's merely history. ,part II

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Response to Bonx (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:20 PM

57. Especially since a little to the South is a place called Normandy.

 

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:14 PM

7. See also: rape victims

Because if you don't act with a perfect mixture of rationality (immediately calling the police!) and upset (curl into a ball and cry for days!), then you probably weren't "really" raped.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:15 PM

9. yup. this applies to a large number of conflicts.

 

including gaza. gay prides/protests. occupy wallstreet type movements. our attitude to the poor overall.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:33 PM

24. Day-um.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:48 PM

27. I understand what you're getting at but I don't think it's really the same thing.

Rape victims aren't going out and breaking other laws. That's not how they are victimized again.

I can understand the breaking things, destructive behavior, that is an emotional response, a release of anger. But then when people run in and loot, that does not seem to be in direct relation to the anger over the shooting. The media obviously will focus on the sensationalist aspect and the easy aspect of it all, and the aspect that can shed more black people in a negative light without giving any context to it. The looting just gives ammunition to the racists and provides an excuse for the media to slant their coverage (not that they need one, they do it anyway).

That's why nonviolent protests are so powerful. It's clear who's in the wrong and it can't be spun.

Now, if there weren't so much poverty and everyone had a fair shake in this world perhaps people wouldn't feel the need to take an opportunity like that to steal, but that's a different issue than it being due to the killing of an innocent kid. Stealing isn't an organic outlet for anger.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #27)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:53 PM

30. Since when do racists need ammunition?

Racism doesn't operate on logic, and there's NOTHING black people can do to make racists happy.

Hell, Barack Obama becomes the president of the United States of America and racists see it as a sign that black people are lazy, shiftless, uneducated grifters.

Black people don't owe racists shit.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #30)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:57 PM

33. I completely agree.

And when they are given no ammunition it exposes just how ugly it all is. That's why all the nonviolent protests of the civil rights movement were so powerful.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #30)


Response to Name removed (Reply #62)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:52 PM

64. Really?

Tell me more.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #64)


Response to Name removed (Reply #62)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 05:03 PM

67. love you MIRT!

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Response to cui bono (Reply #27)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:57 PM

34. Racists don't need to be given ammunition

They have a fully formed and functional ammo factory running 24/7 in their twisted minds.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:15 PM

40. I was going to say this

I'm glad someone did. Thank you.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:21 PM

11. K&R

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:55 PM

31. Look over here, look over here...

 

Don't pay attention to our transgressions. Look what happened over here. OMG! We are so justified now....

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:15 PM

39. Right/white wingers always make crud out of these things. Remember how they predicted riots

after Zimmerman walked after murdering Martin. They are just people filled with hatred.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #39)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:33 PM

49. not just right wingers, though.

 

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:18 PM

41. Nobody's perfect--so you can't expect victims to react "perfectly" to violence and

oppression. And I agree 100% that the media should focus on what instigates rioting and looting and shouldn't exaggerate how bad things are.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:18 PM

42. du rec.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:21 PM

44. the looters are victims?? n/t

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Response to Bacchus4.0 (Reply #44)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:37 PM

52. Are you from the US? Do you understand the systematic racism that these people face in the US?

Being black in America literally means you have been born a victim of over 400 years of oppression. Do you understand what 400 years of oppression does at both the group and individual level?

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:22 PM

45. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, La Lioness Priyanka.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:23 PM

46. I expect people to behave in a reasonable (not perfect) manner

 

Riots, looting.... Are not reasonable responses to the situation.

I'm sick of hearing about how we should excuse unreasonable actions because someone else did something unreasonable.

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Response to Taitertots (Reply #46)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 04:48 PM

72. What they need to do is take it to the suburbs, golf courses, and gated communities because

from your comments that there is not enough of certain skin in the game and going forward every time one of the precious right wing militia gets out of hand until folks like you stop deflecting, excusing, and encouraging more of the same.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #72)

Tue Aug 19, 2014, 10:51 AM

74. Oh, you want a more unreasonable response than just rioting/looting

 

B/C trying to destroy someone else's community is not a reasonable alternative to destroying your own.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:36 PM

51. Time and time again

When I lived in the UAE, I saw that when people think the laws aren't there to protect them, but instead they protect a privileged few, the people who feel unprotected don't see any advantage to following the rules. Why should they? Honestly, I could see their point. I think something like that is at play here. I'm not saying rioting is the right thing to do. But both sides have to follow the rules, and shooting a kid walking on the road is not following the law.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:52 PM

54. They like to act like property is more important than people.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #54)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:56 PM

55. Like the property can't be replaced!

Lives can't..wtf!!!

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Response to Quayblue (Reply #55)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:14 PM

56. Makes sense if you believe there are too many of "them" anyway.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #54)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 02:57 PM

70. that has been a pattern since the days of slavery. nt

 

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:34 PM

61. Rioting when there is no satisfactory recourse against oppression is human, even if counter-

productive. The police won't even release the name of the homicidal cop. When people have all that anger, it's going to go somewhere.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:50 PM

63. I have always liked this poem by Melvin Tolson

Ostensibly about slavery and colonialism, I think it has some is applicable here as well

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)


Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Thu Aug 14, 2014, 11:23 AM

69. kicked

 

i am still feeling the same rage this morning

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 04:31 PM

71. kicked

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Mon Aug 18, 2014, 04:52 PM

73. It's bothering me a lot too. Everything's backwards from how it should be.

I can't stand it anymore.

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