If a button gave you 1 million dollars for pressing it, but killed 1 random human being in the world

[cpwm17]

would you press it? This is a thought experiment.

I would say no. I hope everyone else here would do the same.

The problem is most of our politicians say yes, because that is what they do when they vote yes on most of the pro-war resolutions passed by congress. For selfish political reasons they snuff out random lives on the other side of the world. But they murder far more than just one.

They voted to push the button when they supported Israel's atrocities in the Gaza Strip. They voted to push the button when they supported either of the Iraq Wars or the sanctions that followed the first. There are unfortunately numerous examples in US history, including many recent examples, where US politicians have voted to push the button.

Any politicians that say yes to this question should never get any votes. Many Americans seem to think that the lives of humans in parts of the world aren't worth much. And politicians', such as Hillary Clinton's, positions supporting war are simply disagreements, and we should look at some other alleged positive quality concerning their positions. No, it should be one strike and you're out for mass murder, and a visit to The Hague if there were any justice in this world.


The Twilight Zone: Season 1, Episode 50 Button, Button:

Unfortunately, there is no karma in real life

[PowerToThePeople]

1. I remember that episode. n/t

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. I would not push it. Ever. n/t

[cpwm17]

10. Good answer!

[KittyWampus]

76. Dear Peggy, suppose society covered over the "random kill" so it was very hard to see...

think a little deeper and all of us in developed countries are enjoying the fruits of others slave labor.

[Little Star]

3. I don't think I could live with myself even if I...

accidentally took someone else's life. I honestly don't think I could handle it. Push the button you mention? NEVER.

Yet, I would be able to take a life if say someone (like a seriel killer, etc.) was trying to kill me or another person.

[In_The_Wind]

4. I'm broke but I'm not a killer.

Nope. I wouldn't press that button.

[Louisiana1976]

25. Me, neither.

[malaise]

5. I would not press that button n/t

[steve2470]

6. nope, wouldn't press it nt

[stevenleser]

7. Everyone will answer no, and on DU I generally believe the answers.

But am I confident that a large swath of the rest of the world would do the same if presented with the choice? If they were convinced no one would find out? I just don't know.

[closeupready]

22. I'm not sure I get your answer - I don't think you're being evasive,

but what I mean is, I'm confused as to why you doubt your personal experience dealing with people from the rest of the world (and your experience, such that it is from what I know or what any DU regular likely knows about you, compares quite favorably to most people, either on DU or in the world at large).

Is it that you actually believe most people WOULD press that button, but you are hesitant to admit that belief? Or do you honestly feel that you don't know enough about the general character of people in the rest of the world to render an opinion as to what they would do? And separately, even assuming the worst - that 99% of people WOULD press that button - ... would that alter your own response?

Cheers, Steve. Hope you are well.

[stevenleser]

24. Hi. Yes, I may have not phrased it so clearly.

I am afraid that an unacceptably large amount of people (between 25% and 50%) would press that button if they could be assured of anonymity. If asked whether they would or whether they had, they would deny it, but when it came down to the decision, they would hit the button, and multiple times.

[freshwest]

43. Agreed. And if someone else does push that button, our buttons get pushed. Keeps going on.

And all peoples must agree to not push their own button - and all at the same time and for the future - or we'll all still have buttons.

Those with opposing buttons will want to verify others won't push their own. This is what treaties and diplomacy are about.

Going further with provocative questions:

Can humans trust other humans to restrain their desire to take land, resources, impose their lifestyle, religion, etc. on others for their vision or comfort?

How does one prevent those conflicts before buttons are pushed the first time, if humans will not agree to grant others freedoms we value, land, resources, etc. long before any of the buttons are pushed?

Even worse to consider:

Is this how 'just wars' begin or end?

Is there anything good about pushing a button in such a complex world with so many conflicting interests?

Can an analogy as the OP presents apply to real world situations?

The OP speaks of an experiment and offers a moral test that implies omipotence in such decisions. It's in a vacuum, not the real world where all is connected.

But I just don't buy the analogy of a person making $1M for killing one person. Our leaders don't get rich per kill. They work under the belief that, for the most part, they are saving the lives they treasure. Even Bush wasn't offering the lives of those he cared about but those he didn't care about, well, their deaths still helped the people he wanted to protect.

While Cheney appears to have been directly enriched from the wars, it was more about his cabal. Consider ISIS or other mass murderers in history. They believe(d) themselves to be worth more than others, and have or will gleefully kill anyone who gets in the way of their vision.

So 'It's a good thing,' to them, not to others.

Some will kill one for an insurance settlement, to take their property or get something else they value more than another person's life.

Anyway, I've got work to do, hope you will give me your answers.

Given the dry format of the question being posed, no, I would not. But I've seen too many who would. And that is why buttons exist.

[KittyWampus]

77. Everyone on DU conveniently ignores the fact that the products they buy are made using sweat shops,

slave labor and from resources extracted from land that was forcibly grabbed from an indigenous people.

And this is true of the USA and every industrial nation, regardless of how progressive they are.

We aren't OVERTLY pushing a button for a million dollars. But if you really look at the economic system the world uses right now, people die so others can have cheaper products.

[stevenleser]

80. That is a very tough and good point.

[Hekate]

8. No. And I hope I would walk away from Omelas as well. nt

[tkmorris]

33. Le Guin, yes? Love her stuff

[hunter]

61. Ursula K. Le Guin, "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Omelas

Her website:

http://www.ursulakleguin.com

An optimistic Le Guin future, more likely than Star Trek the Next Generation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Always_Coming_Home

Seriously optimistic. In the pessimistic future you can't live near the ocean because the toxic gas bubbling up out of the surf will kill you.

Or maybe you'd prefer a Koch Brother's Borg earth?



About the "button..." Maybe I should simply kill the guy who offers it to me.

No, that would be wrong. Disassemble the button, smash the key components with a rock, and then try to love the demon who gave it to you.

Demons hate that. The worst you can do to them is grow their hearts and give them angel wings.

So when they shove that rifle towards you stand aside and let it fall in the dirt.

One of my grandfathers was a conscientious objector during World War II. They gave him choice: jail or working as a welder on Liberty and Victory ships. He decided to be a welder. He also got beat up by the cops protesting the internment of his Japanese American neighbors.

My other grandfather helped fight the Nazis with his wits. He loved airplanes, he wanted to build and fly airplanes, his love for airplanes was so great he might have dropped bombs on people just to be flying. But the Army Air Force put him to work as an officer managing highly eccentric people deemed essential to the war effort. He was pretty eccentric himself, but he looked good in a uniform with a big black car and driver carrying a get out of jail free card. At times he put himself in danger too. Something happened in Spain. But he never shot anyone, so far as I know. He never talked about the war. His great pride was being one of many engineers who sent men to the moon and back. Defeating Nazis was just something any decent person would do.

My father-in-law is a similar sort. He didn't want to shoot people so they put him to work patching up people damaged in the Korean conflict. They also used him as a guinea pig in nuclear weapons testing. He's witnessed nuclear explosions up close from a trench, and he's marched across a still hot ground zero.

My dad's an artist. The army didn't know what to do with him so they left him in California serving food, typing slowly with two fingers, and occasionally shooting sand dunes.

It's not easy to walk away from Omelas. My buck naked lunatic running away self still has a few strings attached.

[Wait Wut]

9. No, but...

...it made me sick to my stomach thinking about the people that would not only say "yes", but not even think twice about it.

[cpwm17]

13. Years ago I saw a poll asking this very same question.

I think a large minority of respondents said yes.

[Wait Wut]

16. I wouldn't doubt it.

People don't stop to think. That random person could be your mother, daughter, etc. The only way to get through to the heartless of the world is to make it personal. That's how I win arguments with Republicans.

[GoneFishin]

59. I have tried to appeal to their selfish streak too. Usually they don't concede, but instead

they just change the subject, because they will never admit that their ideology is flawed.

[JaneyVee]

11. Before or after taxes?

Just kidding. A resounding NO.

[TeamPooka]

12. That's exactly how Dick Cheney became a millionaire. nt

[Louisiana1976]

26. I can believe it.

[A Simple Game]

49. Speaking of Dick Cheney, do I get to pick the person? n/t

[underpants]

14. But....what if that random person....was ME?!??!

Asked as William Shatner

[zappaman]

18. oh damn!

[DesMoinesDem]

15. Hmmmm

[cpwm17]

19. The guy on the left reminds me of right-wingers.

When I tell them that our foreign policy harms people on the other side of the world, they shrug and say, 'I don't care.' It's infuriating.

[closeupready]

17. Great way to frame the dilemma.

Thank you. K&R

[SummerSnow]

20. I wouldn't do it.Couldn't live with myself if I did.

[sabrina 1]

21. A human being is worth more than a million dollars, so no way!

I remember a scene from A Man For All Seasons when Thomas More asked if he could look at the medal hanging around the neck of the man, Richard Rich, who had betrayed him. His reward was his rise in politics, in Wales. More refused to betray his conscience and was convicted. He looked at Rich's medal and said:

It profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world ... but for Wales, Richard?

Not much of that around these days, integrity, honesty, and in the end, the King disposed of the woman he fought so hard to get and those who supported him, blindly, had to try to do so AGAIN.

More is remembered throughout history as a great man. Richard Rich, not so much.

[Ron Obvious]

23. I'd press it multiple times, hoping it would pay off each time.

Yeah, yeah, I remember that Twilight Zone episode.

[Marr]

66. lol! Same here.

I think I'd be the sociopathic weirdo who screws the test results.

slap slap slap slap slap slap

[jberryhill]

27. I'd hit it like a rat on crack

[rock]

28. It's hard to answer truthfully because the question is hypothetical

with that in mind I answer, "no".

[edhopper]

29. Of course not

Now, if I could name the person...
Cheney, Limbaugh, ,Putin, Assad....too many to choose from.

[Baitball Blogger]

30. Nope. I would expect a macabre O'Henry twist that would have me

lamenting the decision to push the button.

[Yavin4]

31. Most Republicans would push the button if they didn't get any money at all.

So long as the million dead people aren't White.

[joeybee12]

32. Thanks for getting some Hillary bashing in this thread...

It never ends...I mean, you're right, of course, she's the only politician who voted for the resolution, she didn't not vote because she wasn't in the senate, and come out against it, then later say he might have, like say, oh Obama...keep 'em coming...let's drag her down...let's give 2016 to the Repukes!

[cpwm17]

35. It was a Hillary post that made me think of this.

Too many people are making excuses for her extreme war mongering. Some people actually think she is fit to be the Democratic nominee for the US President. She isn't.

If Democratic voters look the other way, including for mass-murder, we will continue to vote in such politicians. I won't be complicit.

She lost in 2008 for her Iraq War vote and she needs to be defeated again..

[joeybee12]

41. See my post below...vote for you who want to...

But don't buy into the right's strategy of tearing down who you don't like so someone else...weak and ineffective...wins the nomination by default and we get a repuke in 2016, because that's what they want and this OBSESSION with Hlary bashing is playing into that.

[rhett o rick]

36. So you think pushing the meme that Democrats can't win in 2016 w/o H. Clinton-Sachs

will help the Democratic cause? Granted you and the big money want H. Clinton-Sachs, and that's a lot of power on your side. Do you feel more comfortable hanging with the corporate Powers That Be? Some advise to "Hang with the biggest bully." And Corp-America is certainly the "Biggest Bully." I say, "Hit the Biggest Bully in the back of the head with a brick." It's a metaphor, as I don't support violence. With the power of Goldman-Sachs-O-Gold behind her, she has a great chance, but eight years more years of Wall Street economics will most likely kill the middle class dead.

Democrats must win in 2016 with someone other than H. Clinton-Sachs.

[joeybee12]

39. Oh FFS...

No, I'm not saying that, and thank you for buying into the right's strategy about Hilary, point out everything to the right so the base hates her and we get someone else, because regardless of your personal feelings, she polls the best. Whoever we get it must be because they're the strongest, not because we've torn everyone else down.

And again, FFS, everything on this G-damn board these days drags Hillary into it, even some phucking thread about the Twilgiht Zone...this is ridiculous.

[rhett o rick]

42. FFS? Right off the bat? And then you use the idiotic meme that if you don't want H. Clinton-Sachs

you are "buying into the right's strategy". Do you think that tactic will shame me into supporting H. Clinton-Sachs? I know you don't so why go there? Because you have nothing else. "The polls show..." I make my decision on a person's character and integrity not on someone's stupid poll. Running H. Clinton-Sachs against Jeb Bush (the son Babs likes the best) is running Corp-Thing One vs. Corp-Thing Two.

FFS, the middle class will not survive eight years of a Clinton/ Wall Street presidency.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. No, and as cynical as I can be about politics, I do not believe our politicians go to war

Because they think it is going to make them rich.

I may disagree, vehemently, with the rationales used at times, but i think that implication is just facile.

[cpwm17]

38. They do it for selfish reasons

whatever those reasons may be. It doesn't necessarily have to be for wealth.

[BrotherIvan]

58. I think those that make their fortunes from it do

Or campaign contributions. Or no-bid contracts for friends and family. Or future contracts for oil and resources in those countries. Yes, they do.

[Marr]

68. Oh, I don't think they'd consciously admit to it-- even to themselves-- but I definitely think

personal gain is at the forefront of their decision making. They just adjust all their perceptions to make the profitable choice the "right" one.

Look at the Romans' commentaries on Dacia. Dacia was a close trading partner to Rome; so close that they used the same road system, the same architectural motifs, everything. When they warranted remark, they were referenced as friends, neighbors, practically Romans themselves.

But when Rome was so short on gold that they'd stopped issuing gold currency, and Dacia was sitting on top of gold mines... suddenly Dacians became a horrible menace, crouching on the borders of Rome. They were exterminated, and Rome was soon minting gold coins again.

[treestar]

73. +1

and let's not forget they often have the support of a lot of us.

[Dreamer Tatum]

37. I'd press it for $20. nt

[jberryhill]

65. do you take paypal?

[rhett o rick]

40. The word "karma" is often misused. It is not revenge. Karma determines where in the chain of life

that is will you be a ant or a lion or a king, you will come back as in the next life. There is karma in real life but your karma won't have an effect until your next life.

That is a bad explanation. Any Buddhists here to help me out?

[bettyellen]

55. the Buddhist conception of karma is just a recognition of the current moment is the result of

a large and very complex series of moments and actions. it is a seed made by the past, that has a finate, but still unfathomable amount of possibilities in terms of it's future. it is entirely unpredictable what the result of any action will be or when that result will eventually occur. (of course they advise to stay on the path)

acceptance and true understanding would actually lead to being free of the cycle of life in reincarnation, which is considered a good thing. since to live is to suffer.

but no, they do not believe in karma any sort of direct retribution or result of one's actions. that might be more of a Hindu thing?

[rhett o rick]

63. I believe the Hindu have a similar understanding of karma. The only way one can get

free of the cycle is when they reach nirvana.

[reflection]

44. I'd play the drum solo from YYZ on that bad boy.

No, just kidding. I wouldn't press it.

[bigwillq]

45. I would press it (nt)

[Vattel]

46. What if you used that million to save 1,000 lives? One life taken, 1,000 lives saved.

[closeupready]

48. Problem here is, the '1 life = $1M' is quid pro quo;

but the '$1M = 1,000 lives saved' formula is hypothetical, optional, a promise - that can be broken.

[closeupready]

47. I'm sort of dumb, but if the 'I'd press it' posts r serious,

then for me, that helps affirm the wisdom of opposing the candidacy for public office of those who voted in favor of a war which was based on lies and false info.

Not being facetious or sarcastic.

[Puzzledtraveller]

75. You make a good point

I share the same skepticism and I am "no" person in this scenario.

[kjones]

50. What would you do for a Klondike Bar?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

51. My favorite version...

[Shrike47]

52. I wouldn't press it to kill a random person. I might to kill an identified person.

But in that case, I'd do it for free.

[SunSeeker]

53. The tobacco & petroleum industries also keep pressing that button and collect their cash.

And they're not the only industries that have written off the deaths of random people due to their products.

[tomm2thumbs]

54. the question is interesting!

My comment is entirely unrelated to the notion of button pushing.... I watched the episode. It was probably the worst-acted piece of video I could have imagined. It was like they told everyone in the production, "do your worst!" heh heh heh

I hope someone has made a better version of the story because the message gets lost in the terrible, terrible production. And I mean really terrible.

____

I hope someone remakes it!

[cpwm17]

84. Yes, it was tough to watch.

Perhaps they were trying to duplicate the acting style common around the time the original 'The Twilight Zone' was produced.

Perhaps that style of acting was left over from stage acting when the actors had to over act for the distant audience. That style works poorly on TV and in the movies. That's just my guess.

[dilby]

56. We push that button every time we pay taxes.

Unfortunately it makes someone else the million dollars and a bomb drops in some 3rd world country killing women and children.

[JackRiddler]

57. Made into a good movie, The Box

[aikoaiko]

60. Most of us have pushed the button.

That's why we mostly just watch it happen.

[NYC_SKP]

62. K/R. I know a Certain Someone running for POTUS who would push it, and who HAS pushed it.

I'm not ready for her.

I never ever ever will be.

[rhett o rick]

64. I am not ready and never will. We need someone with integrity. Just sayin' nm

[ChisolmTrailDem]

67. Hillary pressed it. Only, it was a million people that died and...

...she made more than a million bucks on the deal.

[Prophet 451]

69. If it was random? No

There's a few people who I think the world would be better off without and I pray for their deaths nightly but some random person? I wouldn't do it and I'd take steps to make sure no-one else could.

[cbdo2007]

70. We all push it every day with our tax money....except we don't get any $$$ in return.

[KittyWampus]

79. We push it every day with our money spent on products made in sweat shops.

[cbdo2007]

83. Good point. So we're all essentially pushing it multiple times per day.

[jberryhill]

85. I'm glad you mentioned that

It's much more than just sweat shops, but I'm surprised that people can say "I wouldn't push the button," and then fill their gas tank.

[KittyWampus]

87. The corporate logo is like a fig leaf, I guess.

[Puzzledtraveller]

71. no

[treestar]

72. I'm no warmonger, but I don't think your analogy is fair

A nation that was not willing to defend itself because it had to kill people to do so would not last long. That's not what they are doing. They are thinking there is an enemy who would strike at us. You don't have to agree with them. But they aren't killing random people for the hell of it.

[cpwm17]

82. The great majority of US military actions are not for defense.

The proponents of US aggressive military actions have various selfish reasons for their push for mass-murder. The fact that the suffering and death happens in far way places insulates the proponents of these mass-murder actions from the consequences of their selfishness.

The proponents of the mass-murder actions fabricate the usual excuses to get the gullible members of the public to support the atrocities. Usually the gullible members of the public aren't that concerned about random people on the other side of the world that are getting slaughtered for no good reason.

[KittyWampus]

74. When we buy ANYTHING made in a sweatshop, we are almost certainly doing just that.

Every industrial nation, no matter how progressive they are, enjoys the benefits of slave labor/sweat shops.

[jberryhill]

86. and the statistical deaths from a number of sources

Oh my, some coal miners died somewhere, but heaven forfend that I should pay a penny more for electricity.

[Orrex]

78. Is there a limit to how many times you can press it?

Can I set up one of those dipping birds to press it every 6 seconds or so?

[Kelvin Mace]

81. Please don't give this button to conservatives.

And no, NEVER.

[alphafemale]

88. Have you not SEEN this story?

If you press the button YOU are the random person the box is given to next.

As it damn well should be.

Because you are an ASSHOLE.

[backwoodsbob]

89. is it a one shot deal or can you keep pressing it?

important question there

[GimmeDANEger]

90. Depends

If I had to learn about the person--put a face and story to the name--I doubt I could.

If I could collect the money, walk away, and never be held accountable legally or personally (my friends and family would not know how I obtained my riches), I am honestly not sure what I would choose. There's a difference between abstract money and real money.

If I did choose the money, I would probably justify it to myself by saying there's no difference between my choice to push the button than my choice to pay taxes and fund the military industrial complex. Never underestimate the power of cognitive dissonance. Many have made a living off it.

[whereisjustice]

91. if only it were that simple, the buttons we push don't kill like that, they stab with a

knife. A small, sharp knife. It doesn't kill right away. So there is no guilt as we plunge it in.

After enough time and enough small, sharp knives, your victim eventually bleeds out.

We consider this a much more civilized way to live.