General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHOLY CRAP...Obama halts hellfire missiles to Israel
Shipment of aerial anti-armor missiles stopped after White House, State Department learned that IDF requested transfer directly from Pentagon without asking for their approval, according to Wall Street Journal report.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4558615,00.html
A senior Obama administration official said the White House didn't intend to get into a "tit for tat" with the Israelis when the war broke out in Gaza. "We have many, many friends around the world. The United States is their strongest friend," the official said. "The notion that they are playing the United States, or that they're manipulating us publicly, completely miscalculates their place in the world."
A senior Obama administration official said the weapons transfers shouldn't have been a routine "check-the-box approval" process, given the context. The official said the decision to scrutinize future transfers at the highest levels amounted to "the United States saying 'The buck stops here. Wait a second It's not OK anymore.' "
The last straw for many U.S. diplomats came on Aug. 2 when they say Israeli officials leaked to the media that Mr. Netanyahu had told the U.S. ambassador to Israel, Dan Shapiro, that the Obama administration was "not to ever second-guess me again" about how to deal with Hamas.
MORE HERE:
http://online.wsj.com/articles/u-s-sway-over-israel-on-gaza-at-a-low-1407979365
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/14/1321492/-HOLY-CRAP-Obama-halts-hellfire-missiles-to-Israel
spanone
(141,610 posts)SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Sid
underpants
(196,495 posts)I hope someone gets that reference
malaise
(296,105 posts)Yessssssssssss!
Rec
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)malaise
(296,105 posts)and had a rethink
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)malaise
(296,105 posts)when you're dependent on both his money and weapons, you've crossed the line.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)malaise
(296,105 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)Looks like I'm in good company too
malaise
(296,105 posts)FSogol
(47,623 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)What are we still providing?
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)Hubert Flottz
(37,726 posts)I would love to see the president tell the GOP and the Dinos, to kiss his ass, on live TV.
MineralMan
(151,269 posts)Funny how that works.
malaise
(296,105 posts)We'll make sure of that
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)n2doc
(47,953 posts)
calimary
(90,021 posts)malaise
(296,105 posts)Pay Up!! Should have bet yah!!!
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)So I'm am using reverse-reverse psychology and am kicking and rec'ing.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)By the way, so far it isn't sinking.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)NealK
(7,159 posts)kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)stood up to Bibi and the restof the Likud regime and offered a more balanced approach to ME policies. It's not that one has to be an anti-Semite or want to blame, defame, or shame Jews anywhere. It's that the current policies of the regime in control of Israel and its policies against the Palestinians are not supported by the world in general and a lot of Americans who are afraid to express themselves against those policies and practices in particular.
newfie11
(8,159 posts)Hopefully no other weapons will be sent in place of them.
flamin lib
(14,559 posts)they'll still be going at each other.
JEB
(4,748 posts)have to get close enough to see each others face.
tblue37
(68,436 posts)enough to justify their hatred.

magical thyme
(14,881 posts)and make it easier, and possible, for noncombatants to get out of the way.
treestar
(82,383 posts)We are starting to get tired of that attitude.
Liberal_Dog
(11,075 posts)I don't want this thread to sink like a stone.
kpete
(72,902 posts)and, peace to us ALL,
kp
eShirl
(20,259 posts)GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)Good!
SleeplessinSoCal
(10,412 posts)GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu reportedly had harsh words for the White House on Friday, according to the Associated Press, warning the administration of US President Barack Obama "not to ever second guess me again" after Hamas broke a 72-hour truce with Israel and attacked Givati soldiers in Rafah.
Netanyahu reportedly stated that he "should be trusted" on Middle East issues regarding Israel's security and that he "expected" full US support for Israel's decisions in Gaza.
SleeplessinSoCal
(10,412 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)used to wonder if he ran this country as well as Israel. I remember him walking into our Congress and getting a STANDING OVATION from both sides of the aisle. I don't think any actual President ever got that.
Maybe we don't need Israel anymore. We have a tendency to back away from 'allies' when they start to become more of a problem than they are worth. See Saddam, longtime favorite dictator, decades long actually. But in the end when we had no more use for him, look what happened.
I have said over and over again that Israelis should prepare themselves for the time when we no longer need THEM and start making friends with their neighbors.
Who knows, maybe that moment has come ....
NealK
(7,159 posts)n2doc
(47,953 posts)Oh that's right, he is on vacation and can't stop anything in the Senate right now.
Starry Messenger
(32,381 posts)JaydenD
(294 posts)Yahoo the murderer - you evil shit, what will you say now?
GoCubsGo
(34,914 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Anansi1171
(793 posts)democrank
(12,598 posts)Stellar
(5,644 posts)how about that!
riqster
(13,986 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)It's only a start and I would have liked a more pronounced slap down of Netanyahu, but at least something is happening. There must be consequences for Israel's despicable behavior.
Shadowflash
(1,536 posts)Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Andy823
(11,555 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)ljm2002
(10,751 posts)Not only a well-deserved slap to Netanyahu for his "don't second-guess me" comments, but also puts the Pentagon on notice that they need to remember who's in charge -- they report to the President, not the other way around.
K&R
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)approved it?
Hoping this is a policy shift and not just a pissing match.
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)something stopped them from trying to sneak around issued protocols. which has me asking - how many other demands from 'nytyahoo' have been filled without going through proper channels?
stranger81
(2,345 posts)was along the lines of "So? I'll bet they've been doing that for the last 30 years."
I tend to think this might be the first administration that's given Israel much push back in terms of its weaponry demands, so no impetus for this kind of end-run existed before, but who knows.
progressoid
(53,179 posts)indepat
(20,899 posts)PragmaticLiberal
(932 posts)Avalux
(35,015 posts)THIS is why they hate him....if he can find a way (where there is one), he does it.
littlemissmartypants
(33,588 posts)JEB
(4,748 posts)from our country (USA) is a good thing. We arm the world then respond with more arms when they are actually used. One fucked up business model.
littlemissmartypants
(33,588 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)a Spine has appeared!
littlemissmartypants
(33,588 posts)graywarrior
(59,440 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Vincardog
(20,234 posts)Response to kpete (Original post)
tammywammy This message was self-deleted by its author.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)It's not going to stop the fighting, but it signals an end to the blank-check era. Or a pause, at least.
dballance
(5,756 posts)Let's halt the three billion we contribute them every year as well.
I think that could be better spent on things like education here in the USA.
1monster
(11,045 posts)the US and its government which has had Israel's back from the start. Maybe then, all those who have not seen what has been done with our tax dollars will have an opportunity to know and revise their unconditional support of Israel's tactics. Strings (ropes, really) should be frimly tied to any aid to any foreign government. No agree to the stings, no need to get aid.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)I have a lot of criticisms towards him, but good job today.
tavernier
(14,443 posts)when I stop and think that a portion of the money I have worked hard to earn has been used to create bombs that kill children and devastate families.
historylovr
(1,557 posts)pansypoo53219
(23,034 posts)RedstDem
(1,239 posts)With friends like that, who needs enemies?
There is a lot of support for this right wing nut job here, why?
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Hillary's best bud Bibi?
There are a handful of DU posters (well, a lot more since the propaganda push got underway and Israel started paying Israeli college kids to post pro-Israel propaganda online) who are 100% onboard with Bibi slaughtering Palestinians left and right in the name of 'Defense'.
RedstDem
(1,239 posts)Funny though, its possible I could have been referring to our next Walmart president, miss hillbilly.
Sad state we're in isn't it?
2banon
(7,321 posts)Let's step up the pressure for further divestment of funding/disarmament and SANCTIONS.
NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)"reporting" that "with Israel's consent" , .... regarding the halt of hell fire missiles shipment blah blah blah, ..... while continuing the shipments of Iron Dome munitions ?
I can't see the US stopping an arms deal on a dime, and then making it public knowledge in midst of an Israeli military operations theatre. There are several things that could easily be going on ... even without the Dailykos' knowledge.
I'm putting my money on Red, the color of lies and munitions money. I doubt very seriously the United States has decided to show the world that now is the time to cut Israel adrft regarding offensive weaponry, and then make it public knowledge.
There is a lot more than "US halts shipments of Hellfire Missiles" in that article, and even more that the WSJ won't know, even from a "senior official".
Not all that glitters is gold, and people will believe horseshit tastes like kobe beef if the right chef charges enough.
tomp
(9,512 posts)the idea that we can never really know what is going on behind the scenes is crucial to remember, as is the idea that one decision by the white house does not signal a significant trend away from imperialism.
NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)there are no actual "news" outlets anymore. The online "news" sources are probably worse than televised "news", for the same reason the average person uses online anonymity to push the limit of common sense, .......personal satisfaction. An adrenaline rush of wanting people to agree with you, instead of informing them with the news ....good or bad.
"News" or "factual" reporting, have given way to speculation, opinion, and conjecture spewed out at "fact", simply for the sake of televised ratings and online site "clicks". But the goal is the same, ........ advertising dollars. Most shocking news=most believers.
The right exaggerates events, or leaves entire segments of truth out, and the base eats it up, ........... the left does the same thing, ..... and each blames the other for their ignorance. "Like riding an insane horse, thru a burning barn" ........ that quote works in nearly every situation.
Not everything right is wrong, and not everything left is right. However both sides viciously defend what they are told by a biased "news" source,.... if this weren't real life , it would be a great sitcom format.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)but it's still a good outcome. Missiles are not 'defensive' weaponry against Hamas.
whathehell
(30,468 posts)MattP
(3,304 posts)A article in WSJ say that the Bibi outflanked Obama by getting the DoD to directly supply them without white house approval.
potone
(1,701 posts)Netanyahu's arrogance is amazing. Perhaps now he will stop treating our President like an ignorant lackey of his. It will be interesting to see just how much of a political uproar this will cause here. I hope the President doesn't back down.
loudsue
(14,087 posts)Netanyahu and Cheney must be brothers from different mothers.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)yellowwoodII
(616 posts)That is incredibly brave. Thank you. Thank you. Makes me proud to be an American.
Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)He's a real jerk and so full of himself that he's intolerable. Israel needs a new leader with a good mind and both a heart and soul, not a pugnacious threatening loudmouth.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
chknltl
(10,558 posts)...but it can't stop me from kicking it! (It's the little triumphs that gets one through one's day)
chknltl
(10,558 posts)but wanted to officially KnR the OP with my home computer instead! Put THAT in yer pipe n smoke it you stupid 'smart' phone!
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)mwrguy
(3,245 posts)beemer27
(599 posts)Many of us support Israel, but have been getting ticked off by the assumption on their part that whatever they do or say will be supported by us. They seem to forget-They need us, we don't need them. If they want to be our ally, they should start acting like it. We are not their "sugar daddy", and are sick of being treated like one. Everyone knows that they went too far in their response this time, and yet there are people who wish that they would have done even more. It is time to rein in the dogs of war and figure out a way for everyone to have basic human rights and dignity in that part of the world. We hold the purse strings, and because of this, we should be listened too. The US should not be treated like a slave who will do their master's bidding. And we should quit acting like one.
yellerpup
(12,263 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)What a big man he is.
Duppers
(28,469 posts)Good for Pres. Obama for having the courage!
abakan
(1,996 posts)Don't you know she would have to prove her balls are the biggest in the world.
whathehell
(30,468 posts)TRoN33
(769 posts)He really think he can get away with getting our weapons for free just to kill Palestine children? This is real thug POS. There are very good Israeli people but Netanyahu and his administration are tainting this world with their appetite of murdering children without any kinds of consequence.
abakan
(1,996 posts)You want to be treated as friends and allies , act like friends and allies and talking trash to our president won't make it easier for us to help you.
Uncle Joe
(65,134 posts)Thanks for the thread, kpete.
karynnj
(60,968 posts)As a liberal Jew, I am absolutely sickened by the current government in Israel. Their behavior towards Obama and Kerry was beneath contempt. Both Americans were working in good faith to stop the killing and had earlier invested heavily in trying to achieve a real 2 state solution. They deserve praise for what they tried to do.
This article clearly describes that the attacks on them were due to Israel wanting "more time" before a ceasefire was imposed to insure Hamas was sufficiently punished.
Hamas IS a terrorist group, but this war was as clearly ginned up by Netanyahu with lies as the Iraq war was by Bush. It is likely what really set things in motion was the announcement of the Unity government for Palestine. Rather than at least giving it a chance to work, Israel condemned it and said it would consider it as they did Hamas.
When three teens were kidnapped and killed, Netanyahu spent about two weeks arresting about 400 "Hamas related" people as spoke of the urgent need to find the kids. In fact, Israeli intelligence knew within days that they were dead and their estimate was that Hamas did not order this. Hamas predictably responded with a huge increase in rockets into Israel - which led to the disproportionate Israeli response.
I personally am proud that my President and his Secretary of State had the humanity to be troubled by both the deaths in Gaza and the way Gaza was. I hope that Netanyahu's unethical leak and mischaracterization of the draft that several European nations, Turkey and Kerry worked on will backfire. It makes it clear that the 7 year seize must be lifted.
What horrifies me is the comments on the article. I regret EVER having argued to anyone who blamed AIPAC for anything that they were overstating things. In addition, I am saddened by having little hope that Netanyahu is wrong about thinking all he has to do is wait for Obama to be out of office.
YvonneCa
(10,117 posts)...of Kerry and Obama. They are pushing forward for a long term solution to this crisis...and several others. This is why I voted for them.
As to Netanyahu, he's wrong about waiting them out. Dems aren't throwing in the towel yet.
karynnj
(60,968 posts)In Ari Savit's recent book looking at the possible solutions - he ends up simply restating what Tom Friedman wrote in the 1980s, Israel must choose 2 of the following three things: being a diplomatic state, having all the land of "greater Israel", and being a majority Jewish state well into the future. Shavit lists 4 possible outcomes - 3 of which he rules out - (2 immoral outcomes - ethnic cleaning by removing the Palestinians and an apartheid nation and the idea of a pluralist democracy where everyone has the same rights. This left only the two state solution --- but in his book written last year -- his view was that Israel did not have the right leadership to do that. (Yet he praises Netanyahu to the hilt for his anti Iran position. So, it is not that he views Netanyahu as too weak.)
His position is interesting because he is someone who had been part of the Israeli peace movement decades ago and he refers to himself as a liberal Zionist. It is exactly people like him who have advocated for the two state solution for years - as it gives them both a Jewish state and democracy. However his reluctance in his book to even question pushing Netanyahu to be the leader needed was troubling and frustrating when I read it. He has been one of the worst Kerry bashers in Haaretz (which is a left leaning paper.) When push comes to shove, he is not an advocate for ANY move towards two states.
A more troubling internal conflict in his book is that he repeatedly pats himself on the back for admitting to the Naqba (where Jews killed Palestinians and drove them out of some of their villages in 1948) AND arguing that it was necessary to create the Jewish state that he loves. He seems to consider this more honest that liberals who are troubled by it. I wonder if his current adherence to Netanyahu - even as he lied Israel into this latest war - is somehow coming from the same root.
This may be making too much of one journalist, well respected as he is, but I wonder if - in fact - the real prospect of change to a two state solution - has created a huge amount of real fear for the country they (Israelis) love changing too much too quickly. If Shavit can mentally accept the Naqba, I assume he could accept an apartheid state to preserve what he currently has. Others may be less intellectually honest in what they are accepting as they reject a two state solution.
The Israeli reaction to the ceasefire draft proposal (ignore that it was not intended to be the final proposal) does show that any two state solution - something that goes far beyond anything in that draft - would likely not have an easy time. Yet, it is the only reasonable alternative. If the effort is abandoned now, it is not clear any future attempt will be made.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)pa28
(6,145 posts)I wonder how long the Israelis have been receiving weapons directly from the pentagon and who authorized it.
LloydS of New London
(355 posts)In Before Impeachment. Durec for thread.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Kick and Rec.
Buns_of_Fire
(19,161 posts)Ooooo. That one's gonna leave a mark! Cue much wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments by AIPAC in 3... 2... 1...
nolabear
(43,850 posts)drynberg
(1,648 posts)How do you like them apples?
liberal N proud
(61,194 posts)
penndragon69
(788 posts)They need to clear the warehouses for NEWER and more destructive ordinances.
PFunk
(876 posts)Now it's time to back him up on this against the AIPAC/idiot friends of isreal backlash.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Geez.
reckless and untrustworthy
Response to Enthusiast (Reply #113)
BainsBane This message was self-deleted by its author.
BainsBane
(57,757 posts)even if he isn't on your television sets talking about it. I fully expect that is the case for Ferguson as well.
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)he is planning a return to D.C. this weekend from his vacation. Wouldn't it be wonderful if he paid a visit to Ferguson can you imagine the feeling of seeing him on TV hugging Michael Browns mother.
BainsBane
(57,757 posts)eridani
(51,907 posts)Thou shalt not bite the hand that feeds 'ya, Bibi.
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)"see what happens when you bite the hands that feed you, you self righteous arrogant bully!"
ReRe
(12,189 posts)Cha
(319,076 posts)Thanks kpete.
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)"Mr. Netanyahu and his national security team are both reckless and untrustworthy."
I am glad President Obama has stood up to this, and I am glad because less people will ultimately die....
Cha
(319,076 posts)RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)proReality
(1,628 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)this thread more than once. fuck that racist right wing Israeli regime!
Rozlee
(2,529 posts)Stuff like this doesn't happen in real life.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)riverwalker
(8,694 posts)Translated: Who the f%@k do they think they are?

whathehell
(30,468 posts)Go on with your bad self, Mr. Prez!
littlemissmartypants
(33,588 posts)Obama bashing.
Tripe.
Written to excite and incite.
Poor Netty. Didn't get our missles.
They need to be recycled into solar powered trash cans for writing like this so-called news report. And definitely secured in the USA.
YOU DO NOT PASS THIS SH*T AROUD LIKE CANDY, FFS!
Next thing we know the Koch brothers will be paying him to bomb us.
Inflammatory, imo.
No recommendation from me.
Thanks for the additional links.
Love you, kpete.
~Lmsp
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)BumRushDaShow
(169,757 posts)
K&R
nikto
(3,284 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Israel had been ordering weapons directly through the Pentagon without directly going through the channels. How is it that this was even tolerable before that statement that finally sunk in by Netanyahu?
I've said this before, and I'll say it again, because although I'm very happy to hear about this, I'm about as pissed off over what has been done IN OUR NAME.
You know how big the Gaza strip is? 150 square miles That's 10 by 15 miles
2 million people within that border and they can't go anywhere. It's a fucking "escape from NY" situation. They can't go anywhere
Just what in the world would the Israeli people if faced with being locked up in one of their shopping malls and turning all the artillery on their collective assess? Does this put it in perspective quite well? I certainly hope so.
Here's another thing I've said
Withhold the funding, bring all the leaders to a room, don't let them out, no water, no food, don't let them out until they work out a peace agreement. There you go
You don't need a course in diplomacy or foreign policy experience to come up with that fast hard fix. Don't let the motherfuckers have one drop of water, go to the bathroom until it's in place.
This destruction has been funded by YOU.
You, and me
BTW, we pay more taxes than GE and the other war criminal companies that built all of these life ending weapons.
flamingdem
(40,891 posts)Netanyahu
dayum
daschess1987
(192 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)but the militarization of the police Advocates.
Good for the WH, it's about time. The Palestinians need protection as we saw and to further arm bullies with no regard for human life who blame children for their own deaths was beyond wrong.
Good news. Finally.
Rex
(65,616 posts)and STFU. There were unacceptable actions taken and it is important for the POTUS to point them out to the nation. NO and hell no we are not going to become a militarized nation.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)These assholes will do anything to remain in power and get their way.
Anything.
Rex
(65,616 posts)He is fearless or at least imo he is. Obama will chew them up and spit them out. I hear ya...it scares me too, but I put all my faith in Obama and his leadership skills.
Warpy
(114,615 posts)Of course, Israel will simply buy equivalent missiles from Asia. It will cost them more and maybe they will do less blanket destruction in the future. Who knows, maybe a few schools will survive next time. However, it's time to get Israel off the taxpayer tit and supporting themselves.
supercats
(429 posts)Fuck Israel, they have turned into Germany from back in the day. Netanyahu is a plain out killer thug. Fuck him. Who the fuck does this piss ant think he is. Let's crush him like a bug and move on.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)and that Israel had its weapons restocked by Pentagon's routine cycling of weapons from its depot. Interesting.
defacto7
(14,162 posts)OK, now how do we get the 60 +/- nuclear warheads back that they say they don't really have? Or maybe they made them themselves but really don't have any, even though they have tested one they don't have, so we would not be able to claim them because they don't have them because they made the ones they don't have.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)PADemD
(4,482 posts)Spain halts arms exports to Israel over Gaza war
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/05/374152/spain-puts-arms-exports-to-israel-on-halt/
UK government to block arms exports to Israel if military action resumes
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/12/british-arms-exports-israel-gaza-block-suspension