WTF - DOJ told Ferguson police not to release that robbery video

[malaise]

since the two incidents were not connected. They said it was not a good idea to release this video given the environment.
Oh My!!!

[justiceischeap]

1. It'd be nice to know who put in the FOIA for it

since the chief stated it was the press that asked for it.

[Strelnikov_]

3. Whatever journalist the chief handed the completed FOIA request to n/t

[justiceischeap]

4. He handed it to all of them.

He said "I believe there are enough for everyone."

When the reporters asked why this was being released, he said 'cause they asked for it and apparently they all looked at one another and were confused, because, as I understand, they didn't know about the robbery connection.

[alsame]

8. Yep, the journalists had a FOIA for

the SHOOTING incident report which is still not released.

[malaise]

7. Someone from Fox?

This has the smell of ReTHUG operatives.

[ReRe]

44. Probably KKKarl Rove n/t

[malaise]

87. Don't rule that out n/t

[Enthusiast]

98. Just what I was thinking.

[randome]

12. Can someone file a FOIA request for FOIA requests?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[reflection]

30. interesting question

IANAL, but it would make sense that you could.

[Cal Carpenter]

45. Yes, you can do that

I know a local journalist who has done that -- granted, she FOIAs her *own* FOIAs and gets all these juicy emails from the administrators of whatever agency she is digging into about what a pain in the ass she is.

It's sorta brilliant.

I would assume with the right keywords it would be possible for someone to use FOIA to see who, if anyone, requested the records about the alleged robbery or who determined they should be released and why, without knowing who had made the request.

It's supposed to be all about transparency...

[DhhD]

57. The Mayor of Furgeson would know the answer to this question, IMO.

[pintobean]

63. KTVI channel 2 in St. Louis

was one of them. I'm pretty sure another station said they had, as well - either 4 or 5.

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. I agree it should not have been released

It was in response to the community painting him as a gentle young man who was getting ready for college when he was murdered by thugs. The other side responded with a different picture. Each are trying to dehumanize the other.

Neither pictures are relevant to the issue: was he surrendering with his hands in the air when shot? It does not matter what type of person he was, if he was surrendering when shot.

[jwirr]

10. It was used to insite anger and the DOJ is correct.

[Evergreen Emerald]

54. I disagree.

It was used to counter the picture that the community had painted of a sweet innocent murdered by a monster.

Nonetheless, if he was surrendering, it would not matter that he robbed the grocer or that he was a sweet innocent.

[VanGoghRocks]

62. If he was surrendering, it would not (or, better, should not) matter if he was a

drug lord kingpin.

[jwirr]

65. Your last sentence is why I called it incitement. It was not relevant. The anger was not because

Michael Brown is "a sweet innocent" it is because he was unarmed and the officer did not shot to wound but to kill and kill they did.

[conservaphobe]

5. Ferguson PD is unreal.

[alsame]

6. They had to release it so that

Michael Brown's character could be smeared. He's on trial-by-media now, just like Trayvon was, just like Jordan Davis was, just like Eric Gardner was. And the list goes on and on.

Now all the focus is on the 'robbery', very few are talking about the shooting or the shooter cop.

And it had the added benefit of stirring up more dissent in the Ferguson community after a night of calm.

They knew exactly what they were doing.

[malaise]

9. Precisely

[Fred Sanders]

17. They got media handling advise from someone...who could it be?.....

[calimary]

35. frank luntz, maybe? Wouldn't surprise me.

It was an OBVIOUS attempt to distract from the reaction to the identity of the officer. Give 'em a big noisy distraction and make 'em look away, and by the time they remember to look back from the distraction, they're already too huffed up about the distraction. Classic maneuver. BUT BUT BUT - look over HERE!!!!!!

[malaise]

85. Looks like ReTHUG operatives are

running this show

[alsame]

29. "A thug". Apparently the smear worked on you. nt

[treestar]

91. If it's true, it's true and not a smear

what's "smeary" is implication it has something to do with the shooting. Even if guilty in the theft, there's still no call to shoot him.

[Stonepounder]

46. Note your phrase "there are 100,000 people behind bars for smearing and should be released today"

and consider the fact that those 100,000 are BEHIND BARS! They were not executed, since robbery - even armed robbery - is not considered a capital offence! Also, I seem to remember something in that outdated and mainly ignored document that we laughingly refer to as the "Constitution" that says if you are charged with a crime you are entitled to 'due process of law' and to be tried by a jury. I checked my copy of the Constitution and didn't find any place that listed an exception that said that it only applied to white folk, or an exception that said 'except when a cop decides not to waste taxpayer money on a trial and executes you in the street'.

[The CCC]

58. That was a smear?

Yes it was. The two incidences are unrelated according to the Chief of Police.

[L0oniX]

68. Crack is bad.

[Little Star]

39. yep

[truth2power]

72. Since they DID release it...

and I agree with your assessment -

People who should be interviewed:

* Clerk in the red shirt (first to show up).
* Woman in red shorts accompanied by boy in blue shirt.
* Man in long pants wearing white t-shirt with logo and neck chain (if they can find him)

What do these people have to say? Why no statements from them? Something stinks! But we already knew that.

[alsame]

74. Agreed, there were several other

adults in that store and I'd like to hear from them.

[truth2power]

79. And I forgot to put in my post

that those who wish to speak should talk only to the Feds, not those serial liars in the Ferguson PD, as some witnesses have already said.

[alsame]

80. Definitely, the locals can't

be trusted.

But at this point, the Feds should focus on the MURDER of Mike Brown, not the store incident which is irrelevant to his murder (unless the Ferguson PD change their story again )

The media is doing its best to distract from the shooting by talking about the store incessantly, I just hope the Feds keep their priorities straight.

[truth2power]

89. That video stinks, 7 ways from Sunday. Please see VA_Jill's post

further down in this thread, here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5396281 (I need to learn how to do HTML anchors).

THAT is a deal-breaker!

[Lee-Lee]

11. DOJ requests or advice can't trump open records laws

And having been involved with a few incidents like this, media will drop requests for EVERYTHING that they think could possibly be related.

If you want open records laws you have to accept some stuff gets released you would rather not be.

[malaise]

13. Except that open records should also have forced said PD to release

the name of the cop who killed the teenager days before it was released - when he was long out of town and all traces of him disappeared from the internet.

[Lee-Lee]

20. Would they?

Does the law in MO have a strict timeframe or was releasing both at the same time in compliance with the law? I don't know MO law so I am asking.

[jeff47]

36. Yes, the incident report for all officer involved shootings

must be released within 24 hours of the shooting.

[ReRe]

50. Have you seen his face yet?

If not, run over to Yahoo.com. I just stopped over there to check my e-mail and there was his pic at the top of their news scroll..

[pintobean]

59. Oops. Forgot to scrub Dad's Facebook. /nt

[VanGoghRocks]

69. This guy has as many different personae as Lee Harvey Oswald.

[malaise]

88. Thanks - here is Darren Wilson

Ferguson officer received police award this year

Photos show Darren Wilson, the cop who killed Michael Brown, being commended for "extraordinary effort." Yahoo News exclusive »

[ReRe]

99. Thanks, dear. Grandma ReRe don't know how to do dat. ;-) n/t

[malaise]

101. It's easier than you think

Place mouse on photo - right click - scroll to View Image Info, left click- copy from Location and paste.

If I could learn this, anyone can

[ReRe]

103. I promise to try. ;-) n/t

[avebury]

19. I would like someone to file a FOIA request to obtain a copy

of the FOIA request alleged to have been filed by the media.

[WheelWalker]

56. +1

That is how I think, too.

[rudolph the red]

76. Exactly

[Octafish]

14. One of DU's best immediately pointed out the dates didn't match.

The robbery video was six weeks ago, going from memory -- can't find the OP and response I read.

Sorry, I can't remember the DUer's handle. Shoulda bookmarked...f'r history.

[malaise]

15. I saw that

[grasswire]

21. the robbery was six weeks ago??

and no one in the media picked that discrepancy up??

[LisaL]

31. No, robbery was on the same day.

Not six weeks ago.

[Octafish]

97. Oh. I was reporting what I remembered from the post about the video date stamp being wrong.

There are reasons I come to DU, to learn and share what I've learned.

Thanks for kindly straightening me out.

[Lizzie Poppet]

67. No. It was the same day.

I think the poster Octafish was referring to may have looked at the stills from the video, which are pretty grainy. That makes it hard to distinguish some numbers (an 8 can look like a 6, for example).

[VanGoghRocks]

71. Any idea what that status "Exceptionally Cleared" in the upper right-hand

corner signifies? My Orwellian nerves are twitching.

[Ms. Toad]

77. Likely - cleared by death of suspect. n/t

[VanGoghRocks]

78. Yeah, I was afraid of that. The language is so chillingly antiseptic, reminiscent

of 'terminate with extreme prejudice' or 'collateral damage'.

[Lizzie Poppet]

82. Yeah, that's definitely chilling.

I'm assuming that's what it means too. How can they be so sure Brown was indeed the suspect? I agree it seems likely, from the video, but that seems like a serious rush to judgement.

[LisaL]

33. One of DU's supposed best looked at the wrong thing while making a claim that the dates didn't match

[ReRe]

48. Run over to yahoo.com and see what he looks like....

... I just went over there to check my e-mail and there he was... Did they say he was 28 yrs old? He looks more like 38-48 to me..

[BuelahWitch]

70. I thought the same thing

He looked kind of young in the side view pic, but from the front he looks closer to (or over) 40 than 30.

[VanGoghRocks]

73. I'd recommend that DU stay away from the Comments section under the Yahoo.com story. There's

some pretty virulent white supremacy stuff there right up near the top of the comments. Obviously, Yahoo.com does not moderate its comments for hate speech.

[ReRe]

100. Ha! I missed those...

... I never read those things anyway. I don't need to read other people's opinions to form my own.
But, shite, since you said this, maybe I will!

[VanGoghRocks]

104. I felt like I'd been transported in time back to the early 1950s. When I read a couple of the most

recent ones to my wife, she said she felt like throwing up a little in her mouth. Stuff way, way beyond the pale.

[ReRe]

105. On second thought.. I think I'll steer away from the comments. n/t

[VanGoghRocks]

106. Believe me, you will not be missing much of value and your blood pressure will

stay lower (an issue in my case

[ReRe]

107. Exactly...

... that's my reason too.

[Fred Sanders]

16. Sean Hannity told the teabagger, Fox News addled Chief to do it.

[fadedrose]

18. My response when I saw it..

was a huge "Awwwww, nooooooo." This will make racists happy.

There has to be a grand jury coming out of this soon, and the tape should have been preserved as evidence as to moods and motives....

My impression of it was that it showed a big kid and a buddy, who with all the stuff in the store to steal, picked cigars.

Cigars are traditional to hand out when a baby is born, and I wonder if Michael planned on passing out a few because he was starting college...and he probably was used to guys cringing when he towered over them, and meant no harm. Probably chuckled over it if he's anything like the big guys I remember from long ago who weren't bullies, and just enjoyed their size.

It seems the whole affair was caused by misunderstandings. We need work on communication skills, including me, and maybe some of these horrible things could be avoided...

As to the tape, Holder was right. Too soon and it's evidence.




'

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. Swisher Sweets aren't used that way, fadedrose

A very 1940's image of cigars, in any case!

[fadedrose]

23. How dumb I am

What are "Swisher Sweets"?

I only have a 40's image of cigars. I hang around with an old crowd..

I meant well.

Thank you.

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. Swisher Sweets are a type of cigarillo commonly used to roll marijuana

You take the tobacco out and roll pot in them, "blunt-style."

When I was a kid we used Philly's Blunt cigars, which is where the term "blunt" for marijuana rolled in a cigar comes from. Just as we would refer to "Philly's" (I'm rolling a Philly), the kids today talk about "Swishers."

[fadedrose]

27. Thanks, but...

That still sounds like a helluva way to celebrate!! So I was right. after all.

Wouldn't mind trying one myself.

[elias49]

38. They are also commonly smoked 'as is'.

no need to imply the guy is/was a stoner. Jeez. What next? He beats his dog?

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. I don't know why he wanted them

I also don't think an 18 year old smoking a little pot on a Saturday afternoon is a big deal.

[wandy]

51. Don't go giving the smear team any ideas....................

I was wondering how they were going to get drugs involved in this.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5392961

I guess I'm just not up on this stuff and still haven't figured out how you make drugs out of Skittles and Ice Tea.
Any bets on which episode will be named "The Swisher Sweets and Marijuana Connection."

[freshwest]

113. I always thought ZIG ZAG was the way to go. No extra work. It could require two, less work.

I've never seen anyone use a Swisher Sweet in that fashion. But then, I don't smoke, either.

[Kurska]

28. They are essentially what is called a cigarillo

Which is kind of the inbetween point between a cigar and a cigarette, but still wrapped in tobacco leaf processed product as opposed to the paper of a cigarette. These generally are sweetly flavored like a kind of a fruit.

Now, I can't speak to the intentions of the young man and I have known people who just smoke them (I have done a few times). But they are often used as a kind of vessel for some other kind of product, be it dipping them in something or having them cut open and the tobacco replaced.

Again no way to know that is the case here, but if you hear anyone making a snide comment to that fact that is why.

[maced666]

24. Why would you not release it?

Unarmed man gets murdered by a cop.
Turns out the guy was a thug who stole a box of cigars earlier in the day, and they had it on video as he assaulted the owner who tried to stop him from stealing. Cops said the cop who pulled trigger didn't even know he was a suspect.
What are the chances of that? It's crazy irony.

I'm glad they released it. DOJ trying to hide it, that I question. I'd like to know who in the DOJ tried to hide it and why.
This was a completely innocent (murdered) man that was a complete prick/thug as well. The fact that it was caught on video on the same day makes a lot of people nervous. Video that you cannot refute does that. Gets in the way of all truths which for some is not for us to know.

The DOJ has no right to keep this from the public. If they do, to please those made nervous by what this proves about the murdered victim being a jackass thief - you may not be too happy with what they might hide next that YOU want to see.

'Not a good idea to release given environment'?! How so? This would increase violence? Why? It didn't - so....wrong on that count. This excuse sounds like a little bush era RW tea party govt that tells people what they want only on need to know basis. Screw that.

[fadedrose]

34. Was there a definite identification?

All I've been hearing on the TV is it was "allegedly" Michael. Had the parents seen it beforehand?

The tape could not have stayed hidden, but would have been brought out in a Grand Jury, just as other evidence, and then presented publically at a trial.

As presented, at the same time as the officer's name, it looked as though the cop maybe stopped him because of the "crime," as it were, and not just for jaywalking. It precluded that the robbery was the cause of the shooting. Not fair to either the victim or the cop, or for that matter, the protesters and business establishments in the neighborhood.

Or the cop should have been charged first, then his name released...Isn't that the way they usually do it? Then the tape would come out...

It was too explosive for this period of time. I think maybe only racists approved of the timing.

[Travis_0004]

52. I believe his parents lawyer said it was him.

[n2doc]

75. He did not

“Let me be real clear to everyone here that this family has never said that Mike Brown, Jr. was a perfect kid,” Gray said at the top of the press conference, before moving on to address the alleged robbery photos directly.

“The family feels that that was strategic,” Gray said of the timing of the release. “They think it was aimed at denigrating their son, it was a character assassination attempt. That is pretty much the sentiments of everyone that I’ve discussed. They think the timing is suspect.” He accused the Ferguson police chief of “inciting the community all over again” now that things have finally calmed down.

“We were finally getting to a point where we were starting to just galvanize the questions that everybody was curious about,” Gray added. “And now, we’re focused on the sideshow.”

Gray urged residents of Ferguson not to “take the bait” from police or anyone else who is trying to engage in “character assassination” against Brown. “Do not take that and react negatively to people in the public,” he said. “Don’t take that and begin to riot. Don’t take that and begin to loot. This family is not for that and they’ve made that plain and clear.”

No lawyer would admit guilt for a client before a trial.

[Travis_0004]

81. Thats pretty much an admission

Never once did he say they dont think its him, and they are back pedealing "we never said he was perfect" etc

[n2doc]

92. If you already have convicted him in your mind, sure

Definition of "prejudiced"

[truth2power]

90. "No lawyer would admit guilt ..." Thank you. I'm not sure it was him. Doesn't add up. n/t

[csziggy]

84. The Ferguson police chief said the cop did not know about the robbery

At the time he stopped Michael Brown. Check the press conferences from yesterday.

The Ferguson police chief said Friday afternoon that the initial contact between an officer and Michael Brown, which ended with Brown shot dead, was not connected to a robbery that had occurred shortly before Brown was killed.

“The initial contact between the officer and Mr. Brown was not related to the robbery,” Thomas Jackson, the police chief, said during a news conference Friday afternoon.

Rather, it stemmed from the fact that Brown and his friend were “walking down the street blocking traffic,” Jackson said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/15/ferguson-police-chief-encounter-between-officer-and-michael-brown-did-not-relate-to-robbery/

So the robbery was in no way connected to the murder of Michael Brown. Therefore, the video and information about the robbery were not relevant to the investigation of the shooting.

As with every other action of the Ferguson Police Department, this release seems to be intended to stir up conflict, not to keep things quiet or to improve relations between the police and the community.

[Little Star]

42. Thug??? wth!

[another_liberal]

32. The cops are so out of touch . . .

I'm sure they just couldn't see the logic of holding off and letting things cool down.

"After all," They must have reasoned, "this might make us look better, at least in some peoples' eyes."

[ellennelle]

40. appreciate this info

but a link is in order. where did you see this reported?

[Baitball Blogger]

43. There is a picture on facebook right now that is creating

another Trayvon Martin situation. It depicts Michael Brown posing in a way that feeds into stereotypes. We won't get a handle on this problem until we hit stereotypes head on.

[ReRe]

47. Have you see Darren Wilson yet?

I just seen his picture over on Yahoo.com. Run over there quick and see if it's still there...

[ellennelle]

49. a link, please

the only refs i see to this assertion is from non-credible sources (e.g., rightscoop and weaselzippers??? c'mon). the former refs an msnbc reporter who merely ASKS the question, did DOJ do this; she was NOT reporting that either the DOJ had advised against it or that the police had rejected that advice.

just for the record, had the DOJ requested they withhold it, and the police refused, it's just another nail in the coffin for the ferguson PD in a civil case against their actions.

oddly, the police chief (not defending him, but hey howdy, would NOT wanna be him right now) came right out and said he was acting under command of st. louis cty when that decision was made, had not yet made command transition to MO HP. in his head, i guess.

what a mess.

still, may i again ask for you link on this; otherwise, your assertion is all still speculation.

[malaise]

94. It was on CNN minutes before I posted this thread

Searching for a link

[VA_Jill]

53. What I have read in a couple of places

is that this can't be Michael Brown because the guy in the video is wearing shorts and flip-flops, and Michael Brown was wearing long pants and sneakers when he was shot. Gee, maybe he had time to run home and change clothes! /snark

Also (and I have not seen a face in the video, but apparently some have), it's been said that the video shows a 30-ish guy with a goatee, and Michael Brown was clean-shaven. So WTF, Chief Jackson?

[8 track mind]

60. i picked up on the same thing as well

The person in the video doesn't look like the person that was shot. The guy in the video was heavier, and a bit older than 18. This whole video mess looks like a last ditch attempt to paint the victim as a bad guy.

Things are starting to make sense. This is why the ACLU had to file a lawsuit to preserve the recordings from the police car. This whole thing stinks.....

[Travis_0004]

66. Anthony Gray, the lawyer for the brown family said it was him.

[truth2power]

86. Ruh Roh! I watched that video 3 or 4 times and some things looked 'hinky' to me...

and I didn't even know about the long pants/shorts issue because I didn't see the body. That is a biggie! Yikes! It would be a deal-breaker, for sure.

I really, REALLY hope an attorney gets hold of that video and has an expert in video analysis look at it. Things don't add up.

Conveniently, perhaps, that video isn't sharp. It could be enhanced, however. There are two people who come into the frame at the counter. The first is NOT MB, IMO because he appears to be shorter than MB when you look at where the top of his head is on that drink machine thingie.

MB is wearing sandals, I would swear. And shorts.

I think that video has been 'shopped.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

55. They were doing what FOX "News" wanted. They consider the DOJ to be the enemy.

[Fred Sanders]

61. So obvious that no one in the media dare connect the dots. Two appearances exclusively on Fox....

[JustAnotherGen]

64. Are there any close up images

Of the man from the store video available?

[freshwest]

83. The DOJ was correct. No connection, this was a random road rage killing by Wilson:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5390768

Even the chief said that Wilson didn't know of the robbery. He was on edge and looking for a fight beyond his duty to keep 'public order.' He found someone too big to manhandle. There was no cause, walking in the street is not a crime, nor is mouthing off. He was not fit for the job, by testimony of others who had trouble with this cop. He was like a time bomb ready to explode like Z. Ferguson PD sounds like the one in Sanford.

[lonestarnot]

93. He was still described by an eye witness to have raised his hands in surrender when he was shot an

Last edited Sun Aug 17, 2014, 01:17 AM - Edit history (1)

untold amount of times after his hands were in the air and he was unarmed. Fucking cop 1st degree as cop had time to think about what he was doing. Temporary insanity will be the scumbag's defense.

[malaise]

95. He became temporarily insane when he saw a young

African-American male? How convenient.
It's disgusting.

[lonestarnot]

111. Yes it is.

[Arrowood]

108. Are you talking about the version given by the guy in the video?

[lonestarnot]

112. No listened to her on LO, I think night before last.

[Rex]

96. And yet they did...why do they keep violating instructions?

The FBI better make sure they are looking close. Ferguson PD sounds as corrupt as all get out.

[DinahMoeHum]

102. The Ferguson PD basically gave the US DOJ the finger. . .

. . .because they wanted to. . .and apparently could.

That fat fuck who calls himself a police chief should be busted on obstruction-of-justice charges and removed from the scene immediately.

Seems the whole fuckin' apple tree known as the Ferguson PD is poisoned down to the roots and needs to be eradicated - and a brand new tree planted.

[madville]

109. The robbery/shoplifting video will be important in court for both sides

For the prosecution it will be an important point that the officer had no previous knowledge of it when he approached Michael Brown.

For the defense it will be be an angle they use (not saying this is true) to paint Michael Brown's state of mind. By that I mean he had just committed a crime and then an officer approaches him. They will use that in the defense as a reason why Brown could have "attacked" the officer and went for his gun. That is how they will use it, that the officer was caught off guard by someone that had just committed a crime and the officer was caught by surprise since he had no prior knowledge, they will paint the officer as the victim in this.

For those reasons, the store video is relevant to the shooting, but the timing of the release was very suspect and intentional.

[KauaiK]

110. Panic to justify racist murder...oh surprise

They'd have to study-up to be ignorant idiots.