Islamic State: "We Will Take Spain Back"

[Rhinodawg]

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4616/islamic-state-spain#



Radical Muslims in Spain have launched a social media campaign aimed at generating support for the jihadist group Islamic State [IS].

The campaign involves posters that include images of famous Spanish landmarks and monuments emblazoned with Arabic slogans such as, "We are all the Islamic State" and "Long Live the Islamic State."

One poster includes an image of the medieval Islamic Aljafería Palace in the Spanish city of Zaragoza and the black flag associated with the IS. Another uses an image of the famous La Concha beach in the Basque city of San Sebastián. Yet another includes an image of the statue of Jesus Christ on Monte Urgull in San Sebastián, with the Arabic words "Al-Andalus Country" instead of "Basque Country."

[Rhinodawg]

1. I think they mean it.

These fundies always thought Spain belonged to them.

[WinkyDink]

13. Was it the beheadings or the kidnappings that convinced you?

[Fred Sanders]

2. They would also like a pink pony with their falafel. Tons of white groups taking back all kinds of

lands in their dreams.
The brown and black groups are just ever more scary, they just are, so Sayeth the media, so must you believe.

[Generic Other]

3. It makes as much sense as giving Palestine to the Jews did

Based on ancient claims.

[frazzled]

8. Arab armies conquered the Iberian peninsula beginning in 8th century AD

They didn't originate there. That's 2000 years after the Jews were living in the region that is now Israel (c. 1200 BCE), and continued to live there. There's a pretty big difference between Spanish Muslims declaring they wish to retake Spain: it's as if modern day Romans decided that they were indeed the real rulers of Israel and Palestinian lands, since they had conquered and ruledthem once.

Fer chrissake, THIMK.

By contrast to the "invasion" model of ownership, the establishment of the modern state of Israel was part of a series of internationally sanctioned plans that dealt with the dissolution of the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire in the early 20th century.

The land, and the Jews, had been conquered over the millennia by many empires--Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Roman, Byzantine ... and not until the 7th century AD was the region conquered by the Islamic Empire. The majority of the population then was Jews, many of whom were converted to Islam. At any rate, by 1099 the Islamic Empire was in turnconquered by the Crusaders, who ruled until 1291. Finally, by the 1500s, the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire conquered the entire region and ruled all the way until 1917. That was when the League of Nations, and then the UN, got involved in straightening out the region:

In 1917, towards the end of World War I, South Western Syria, following the defeat of the Ottoman Empire, was occupied by British forces. The United Kingdom was granted control of the area west of the River Jordan now comprising the State of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (Mandatory Palestine), and on the east bank of what later became Jordan (as a separate mandate) by the Versailles Peace Conference which established the League of Nations in 1919. Herbert Samuel, a former Postmaster General in the British cabinet, who was instrumental in drafting the Balfour Declaration was appointed the first High Commissioner of Mandatory Palestine, generally simply known as Palestine. During World War I the British had made two promises regarding territory in the Middle East. Britain had promised the local Arabs, through Lawrence of Arabia, independence for a united Arab country covering most of the Arab Middle East, in exchange for their supporting the British; and Britain had promised to create and foster a Jewish national home as laid out in the Balfour Declaration, 1917.

In 1947, following increasing levels of violence, the British government expressed a wish to withdraw from Palestine. The proposed plan of partition would have split Palestine into two states, an Arab state and a Jewish state, and the City of Jerusalem, giving slightly more than half the land area to the proposed Jewish state. Immediately following the adoption by the United Nations General Assembly of a resolution recommending the adoption and implementation of the Partition Plan (Resolution 181(II) ), and the subsequent declaration of statehood by the Jewish National Council, civil war broke out between the Arab community and the Jewish community, as armies of the Arab League, which rejected the Partition Plan which Israel accepted, sought to squelch the new Jewish state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_Judaism_in_the_Land_of_Israel#Under_Islamic_rule_.28638.E2.80.931099.29

[Spider Jerusalem]

32. Yes, quite

I don't think "my ancestors left this place 2000 years ago" is a justification for expelling the people living in a territory at the present time. Especially when genetic studies show that the Palestinians are also the descendants of the ancient inhabitants of the region; the ancestors of the Palestinians are, from all the evidence, Jews and Christians who converted to Islam at the time of the Arab conquest. And meanwhile something like 80% of Ashkenazi Jewish maternal ancestry is of European origin.

It really doesn't matter whether the ancient origins of the Jewish people are in the region or not; it doesn't change the fact that they're essentially a colonial settler population engaging in a project of displacement of the indigenous people.

[frazzled]

37. You missed the part about UN recommendation

And we're still fighting over the same 2 state solution.

So you're suggesting that Israel is not a legitimate state, then. Fine. It's at least clear.

[Spider Jerusalem]

39. I didn't say that, no

but you'd do well to focus on the UN resolutions and leave any historic claims to one side.

Israel's existence is a settled fact; however, Israel is a specifically ethnic-nationalist state in a world where that sort of state is an anachronism. The existence of Israel as a "Jewish state", in which non-Jews are second-class citizens subject to discrimination, barred from military service (in a country where military service is a requirement for getting many jobs), expropriated of their lands under a policy of "Judaisation", legally discriminated against in housing under a "suitability to the community" law, and much more that I don't have time or space to list, is something that seems to be worth questioning.

[WinkyDink]

15. Not quite.

[AverageJoe90]

10. Unfortunately, these guys really ARE scary.

Just look what they've been doing to the Yazidis and the Chaldean Christians for example.

TBH, I don't doubt they don't pose much of a direct threat to this country, but they still need to be dealt with.

[Generic Other]

45. I suppose the Moors found the Spanish Inquisition rather SCARY!!

It is just getting tiresome for people to try and displace modern people with prior claims of sovereignty. Can't we just say people have a right to claim citizenship in the land they are born on?

[AverageJoe90]

47. The Spanish Inquistion was a terrible thing, yes.

But I'm not terribly sure of your point. Clarify, please, if you would?

[Generic Other]

48. I guess my point is that all zealots are scary!

to those they want to eliminate.

[L0oniX]

4. My first tendency about this is to LOL.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

5. The gatestone institute?

"The Gatestone Institute, formerly Stonegate Institute and Hudson New York, is a think tank based in New York City.[2][3][4] The organization is chaired by John R. Bolton"


Good source.

[AgingAmerican]

6. Doh!

nt

[Igel]

11. That's just pure ad hominem.

What they say must be false because of who they are. It replaces judging the person for judging the information and logic.

Look elsewhere. Even the links in the page. Perhaps a paper from the Basque Country suits you better?

http://www.diariovasco.com/san-sebastian/201408/12/cartel-apoyo-estado-islamico-20140812131138.html

Took no research skills. Just seeing little blue underlined bits in the text and the ability to click on them.

The Gatestone text is a bit over the top. But the "campaign", such as it is, is real. Hey, it's even in that right-wing think-tank known as CNN. And there's a video for those who need fast moving bright colors.

When you get CNN and Basques on the same side, you know there's something to it. Even if this particular source was over the top. (For those who missed it the first time. You never know who's reading.)

The sad thing is that this may have been promoted by a group, but lots of individuals around the world participated. We can only hope that some are tongue-in-cheek. Although the idea of having the Basque Country ever be part of al-Andalus is simple crockpottery. It can only come from somebody having been told "Spain was al-Andalus, the Basque Country is part of Spain, so the Basque Country was al-Andalus." Well, criminy, Mexico was part of Spain at one time. So was Louisiana (that "Spanish Quarter" wasn't flown in from Valencia, you know).

Yeah, now I've done it. Now there'll be a movement to restore Oaxaca to the khalifa, where it was in Olmec times when the Muslims discovered maize and peppers. Or some such nonesense.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

27. Yawn.

A conservative newspaper that supported the nationalists in the Spanish civil war?

So far everything posted has either been from right wing think tanks or right wing newspapers.

I know you're scared of the brown Muslim boogymen under your bed, but I promise you things will be alright.

[malaise]

30. ROFL

[IDemo]

7. I wonder if they've agreed on areas that simply don't interest them?

Or is everywhere open game? Newport Beach? Boise?

[Rhinodawg]

14. You can kiss Boise goodbye.

Joking of course.

[davidpdx]

52. We should give Idaho to the Canadians

That would be cruel and unusual punishment.

[HeiressofBickworth]

55. Seattle has already been mentioned for destruction.

I'll still get a good night's sleep tonight and every night.

[freshwest]

33. World peace requires the entire world to be onboard. Nothing new about that vision.

Whatever is done for love always occurs beyond good and evil.

~Friedrich Nietzsche

I've always said that war is more about love than hate. Meaning what one loves can induce one to kill others to save what one loves, or to protect it or even create what one loves for the first time, or to maintain a vision.

ISIS has a vision of world peace that will only be fulfilled when all submit to their version of peace or die resisting. Then, like the Peacemaker or B-36, there will be 'peace.'

The mind of the warrior willing to die for his homeland is actually to save all he loves there and all the good things he had in his life there. It remains to us to decide what, if anything, the western nations or the USA have worth saving, or if in order to get along, we will submit to ISIS.

We don't seem to have a vision of ourselves at the present, most of what I see projected from many corners is that we as a nation need to just go away as we can't do anything right. Along with all the nations of Europe. The future will be made by those who believe they have the right ideal, and they will not stop fighting for it.

The Islamic nations, IIRC, have many more young people as a percentage of their population than the West. It has caused an explosion of energy to burst forth. They will, as other groups in the past, seek to get more living space and they will make the world in their image. History shows population growth and the need for resources can destroy a nation within or those they can overcome to save themselves. This is nature at work.

There is always a dark side to anything, IMHO.

[Arugula Latte]

9. Fucking religion.

This planet would be soooo much better off without that nonsense.

[Nye Bevan]

49. Some religions we would certainly be better off without.

I don't have any issues with my local Episcopalian congregation. Except when once in a while one of them double-parks on a Sunday.

[MoonRiver]

12. Deluded some?

[Rhinodawg]

18. I think they are deluded...but

I thought al-Qaeda was deluded when they declared war on the US.

[MoonRiver]

19. Agreed, but taking over Spain?

That's a colossal stretch, imo.

[Rhinodawg]

21. They always mention Spain..

and Seattle... They have a serious problem with that city. No bs.

[MoonRiver]

22. Seattle????

That I do not understand.

[Rhinodawg]

23. See

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025359226

[MoonRiver]

24. Can't imagine why they hate Seattle.

[freshwest]

35. See my post on that thread. In simpler terms, ISIS = Conservatives.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

40. Hello! Seattle is home to the overpriced $5 cup of coffee. They totally have it coming.

[freshwest]

36. They did it before, why not do it again? They may have the wind at their backs, now.

[MoonRiver]

38. Spain is a member of NATO.

Even if Spain's own army was not sufficient to beat the thugs back, highly unlikely, its NATO allies would wipe the floor with ISIS.

[freshwest]

41. Thanks for mentioning that... I'd think so too, but for one thing:

ISIS is not a nation they can declare against, it's in many nations and they can't bomb all of them.

Their presence in Spain and elsewhere would lead a civil war, and NATO might not be able to handle all that.

And ISIS is not a nation state, but a world wide ideology. If they ever got their way (I hope not, as I'm sure I'd get killed in the ensuing mess) there would be no nation states, but one planetary government based in Mecca or wherever they think is best.

What a weird thing to have to deal with, and at this time, no one wants to go to war and we are faced with a group that wants peace too... Just on their own terms.

I read some time back but didn't take it very seriously, at a Chinese astrology website, about how the world goes in cycles. That article said the world would be facing the same conflicts as in the 1930's.

And that how we dealt with it would determine the future for hundreds of years or more. So many shadows of the past are playing out around us, tI am beginning to wonder if they had a bead on something.

There's a mathematical formula used that I don't understand, about cycles and so I guess I never will. Our narrative of reality seems to be that the world evolves and people aren't going to have to face or live in the past as it's over with. It does not appear to be so somedays.

I'd very much appreciate if you'd explain to me further how NATO can deal with this. Especially as Americans are not willing to get involved, or at least, from what I read on DU, they're not. I'm ready to be informed. TIA.

[MoonRiver]

42. I just don't think Spain is at risk from ISIS.

Other places in the ME and Africa definitely.

[freshwest]

44. I probably shouldn't delve deep in military stuff. We're laughing it up on the Seattle thread.

I'm just too serious for my own good at times. Thanks for the response.

[Boom Sound 416]

16. Very interesting history between

Modern day Spain and Morrocco and the back and forth slave trade and conquering.

[WinkyDink]

17. And then....France! (Don't laugh; ISIS is counting on Fifth-Columns.)

[Rhinodawg]

20. At first I did laugh...

Now I'm not laughing .

[MFM008]

25. someone let Ferdinand and Isabella know.

They just cant let shit that happened in the 1400s go can they.

[Brigid]

26. They better remember how stubborn those Spaniards can be.

They finally drove the Moors out in 1492, even if it did take about 700 years to do it. I do know that much.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

28. I'm sure NATO would just sit back and let Spain be invaded.

How are they going to get there? With their advanced naval fleet?

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. LOL...the Spanish army would whip they ass in under a week

They wouldn't even need to call NATO in.

[DonCoquixote]

31. wow , so

they do realize that they just declared war with the entire EU? Also, the Basques will nto stand for it..as frankly they do not even want Spain on their lands (and I say this as a descendant of them.)

[LiberalElite]

34. Yeah, back to 1,000 BCE nt

[Liberal_from_va34]

43. They are truly delusional if they think they can pull this off.

But what can one expect from these religious extremists? Just another reason why I hate religion in general.

[Rhinodawg]

46. They are not going to "invade" in the usual way.

Neither did al-Qaeda .

Planes...maybe
Bombs on planes
Terrorist attacks
Bombs on trains

Sound familiar ?

[Nye Bevan]

50. I bet they will put a stop to topless sunbathing

once they have seized power in Spain.

[csziggy]

56. Topless sunbathing could be WHY they want to retake Spain

No to appreciate the view, but to put a stop to it, of course.

[Warren DeMontague]

57. SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bravenak]

51. That's how rightwingers are.

[davidpdx]

53. There are so many of these claims

The ones in Asia are just ludicrous. Let's fight over a rock in the ocean and hate each other because of it.

[HooptieWagon]

54. They better watch out for the Spanish Armada.

[flamingdem]

58. Is Flamenco going to be outlawed?

Damn

[MADem]

59. Only a crazy person pisses off the Basques. Those guys do NOT play. nt