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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMichael Browns autopsy diagram.....
This thought came to me when reviewing....If you do a visual image of raising the arms upward above the head, in a surrendering posture...the target is clearly the head....point being...he surrendered to the officer. My opinion.
SaltyBro
(198 posts)This young man was kneeling and pleading for the officer not to shoot him, then he was executed.
Uben
(7,719 posts)Is there video or pictures? Or is it word of mouth?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)That is not consistent with anything other than a man of his height dropping to his knees.
He was surrendering and the cop, knowingly and with malice, executed him.
madokie
(51,076 posts)the shot in the top of the head could have been after he had already been shot and was falling to the ground
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Uben
(7,719 posts)...you are jumping to conclusions. I'm not a forensics expert, and have not seen the report, but Brown could have been falling forward when the fatal shot was fired. Doesn't mean he wasn't executed, just another possibility. As far as the eye-witness accounts, I have to take them with a grain of salt because for days we were told he was shot twice in the back, which the autopsy revealed was not true. I feel kinda stupid for repeating those eyewitness accounts now. Yes, I know the bullets fired at his back probably missed their mark, but still, the accounts were skewed. Since the autopsy revealed the head shot was probably the fatal wound, it seems reasonable that Brown had fallen forward after sustaining 4 to 5 shots before the fatal shot.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I don't think the shot to the top of his head was the fatal shot.
I think the shot to his eye was the fatal shot and that shot came just before he began falling to his knees, when the final shot was fired to the top of his head.
Now, look at the autopsy chart, but move the arm up with it remaining facing forward and notice the firing pattern:
That's a damned tight pattern for a pistol at 35 feet.
And not one of those shots were fired at close range.
Uben
(7,719 posts)...and I do believe Wilson killed Brown illegally. I just have to stop repeating stuff that is hearsay. The autopsy is fact in that it shows the wounds and paints "possible" scenarios of how the events occurred. "Possible" and "probable" are not definitive, therefore I have to wait until all facts are in before I will be convinced how the killing actually took place.
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)... then decides to turn around and (unarmed) charges at a cop who is shooting at him? That's a rather far-fetched fantasy.
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)He is the one who said the wounds were consistent with Brown charging Wilson. I'm merely quoting what he said.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)When asked if it was POSSIBLE he said yes. He also indicated the fatal shot could have been on his knees with head down. The second case is far more likely, charging the officer shooting at him is a suicidal fantasy.
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)He stressed that his information does not assign blame or justify the shooting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html
The quote is from Dr. Baden, the physician retained by Brown's family, in the NY Times article published just before midnight last night.
mcar
(42,331 posts)As the doctor clearly states. Why highlight only one clause?
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)I highlighted the clause which demonstrates I was not misquoting.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Why didn't you highlight that statement? Perhaps because of your prejudice you've already determined guilt?
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)Context is important - read the conversation you are jumping into - you probably could have figured out why I highlighted the portion I did - it is the portion which demonstrated I was not misquoting.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)You are cherry-picking only the parts of the doctor's statements that support your notion of predetermined guilt. Thats deliberately taking the quote out of context, and dishonest. Don't sit here and pretend to be impartial, when your actions indicate a high degree of prejudice in the case.
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)You have now twice alleged that I have omitted portion of the quote. I have consistently included the complete quote, including the subsequent sentence, which carefully disclaims any suggestion that the scenarios described by the doctor assign blame or justify the shooting.
My bias is toward dealing with all of the facts. When someone alleges partial facts, I provide the rest - that the doctor posed two scenarios. It does not do anyone any favors to pretend the doctor hired by the Brown's family did not say what he said. The other two autopsy reports, to the extent you believe bias plays a role in the reports, will likely be more damning. Do you really think it is a winning strategy to say we don't like those two reports at all because we know they're going to lie, and we only like parts of the one our side commissioned?
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)is quoting out of context. Dr. Baden surmised two scenarios, you've chosen to latch onto the least obvious cause... a man who decided to run for his life is then going to turn around and charge back at the man he's initially running from? Do you have a clue how survival instinct even works?
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)What don't you get about responding to that person with the full quote - highlighting the portion which contradicts the accusation that I was misquoting? Why possible insight would it add to highlight the portion of the quote about which there is no dispute?
Enrique
(27,461 posts)and eyewitness accounts. Maybe the analysis is good, I don't know. I wouldn't call it a fact however.
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)did the analysis.
He stressed that his information does not assign blame or justify the shooting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)A pathologist on CNN laughed off the possibility of him charging because of that this morning.
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)The point is - it is one of two scenarios described by the private doctor the family retained to perform a second autopsy. It is stupid at this point, to pretend it is not a possible scenario. Of the three autopsies being performed, if you assume bias on the part of the individual doing the autopsy, this is the one which would most likely be biased in favor of Brown.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)Your problem is with him - I am merely quoting what he said about the two scenarios which could have resulted in the wounds.
Bettie
(16,109 posts)making the cop an innocent victim and making victims into something other than that.
Victim blaming seems to be a new national pastime.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I've been putting them on ignore.
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)about the autopsy is hardly making the cop an innocent victim.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)The poster is spinning a far-fetched fantasy.
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)...it is quite evident you are highly prejudiced.
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)In fact, if you will look at the times I have quoted that passage, even when I was only responding to allegations, I was careful to include the subsequent sentence, "He stressed that his information does not assign blame or justify the shooting" - which I certainly would not have if selectively editing to support a conclusion that Wilson was innocent.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5404330
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5404323
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5403309
In general, my responses have been to those using partial quotes (or ignoring completely) what the doctor himself said. I happen to think it is important to deal with reality - and the reality is that the doctor retained by Brown's family posed two scenarios that could explain the wounds.
alsame
(7,784 posts)a shot to the top of the head.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-ferguson-michael-brown-20140817-story.html
One of the wounds was on top of Browns head, Gray said.
To have a shot thats at a 90-degree angle from the top of his skull to the bottom of his chin, almost vertical, that sounds like an officer standing over him, he said.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Had this been anybody other than a cop committing the murder, that is.
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)He stressed that his information does not assign blame or justify the shooting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0
alsame
(7,784 posts)falling over at the time of this last and fatal shot. He had already been shot in the head and was probably going down.
Hopefully the Fed autopsy is more conclusive.
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)but I don't think it is smart, at this point, to be insisting that the only possibility is an execution - when (1) that was not one of scenarios suggested and (2) the charging scenario was suggested - by the doctor who performed the autopsy which is MOST likely to be biased in favor of Brown.
alsame
(7,784 posts)cold blood regardless of how the shots were fired. IMO.
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)I don't know that I would go so far as cold blooded murder. I suspect more bigotry induced irrational fear and stupidity. Brazen gangland style execution by a police officer, in the middle of the day, in front of potentially hundreds of witnesses makes no sense. Being irrationally scared out of his gourd by the bogeymen in his own mind, and by having gotten himself into a situation where he had escalated the situation, and as a consequence using far more force than was appropriate for the situation makes sense.
It doesn't justify it - but it is also different than cold blooded murder.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)The doctor was asked if it was POSSIBLE. He answered yes, based solely on the trajectory. The same trajectory is consistant with falling to his knees, which is the witnesses accounts.
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)which was contemporaneously released with the autopsy.
He stressed that his information does not assign blame or justify the shooting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html
It was not a grudging acknowledgement in response to a question- it was one of two options he provided.
a kennedy
(29,661 posts)FarPoint
(12,368 posts)Ahhh not in my review... I see arms raised, target was the head having inner right arm being struck trying to hit head....With arms raised, shots are all in same close proximity... The anatomical autopsy diagram is just that..not about body posture during the shooting. We need to look outside the box.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)People trained to shoot in self-defense are trained to shoot at the center of body mass. It's typical for less than 1/3's of bullets fired by police to hit their targets during actual incidents.
Bettie
(16,109 posts)None of the shots as he was running away hit.
Witnesses may have seen the officer shooting at him, but he didn't hit until the young man stopped moving.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)From what they're saying on TV, all shots were from the front. Pretty much every witness claimed that he was shot a time or two from the front, shot at from the back, turned around, was shot again from the front, then shot a bunch while on the ground.
He was lying on his front on the ground, so I'm not sure how he could be shot from the front while lying face down on the ground.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)All the shots that hit him appear to be when he stopped and turned to face the officer...ie: he was surrendering. Appears to be a pretty clear case of murder.