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Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 08:27 AM Apr 2012

Small example of lovely conversation I had this a.m. with a Libertarian nutjob


Libertarian: “When governments spend more than they have, that’s what happens”

Me: “You’re either out of your mind, or you're choosing voluntary blindness, but let’s assume that were the situation, what’s your solution?”

Libertarian: “You lower your spending!”

Me: “But what about the fact that the mega-wealthy are no longer paying equitable taxes? If you have no revenue or very little revenue, how can you even spend ANYTHING? There's nothing TO spend!”

Libertarian: “Are you kidding me? The rich paying the bulk of the taxes in the U.S. What kind of tax rates would you like them to be paying? Let me ask you something, do you routinely spend more than you make?”

Me: “No, I don’t. I do put funds into my piggy bank. There would be a problem if I didn’t put funds in there, and that’s what’s happened in the U.S. I want them to pay the same rates they were paying before Reagan. Let me explain”

Libertarian interrupted me

Again

And again

And again

Then I went quiet, then Libertarian said, “Fine, go ahead but you’re WRONG, and you won’t listen because you're hard-headed!!”

Me: “Listen up. If you have a parent with children, and that parent works but keeps the money for HIMSELF and doesn’t share it with his children, according to YOU, the solution to that problem, is for the children to eat less and go shoeless, since they’re eating more than the money available for them to eat and wear shoes.

Libertarian: “No, that’s not what I said”

Me: “Oh, it sure as hell is, but you said you’d let me finish!!!!”

Libertarian uttered: “Nuts! You're nuts!” then went into silence and seething anger.

Me: “Corporations and the rich are not paying their fair share in taxes, and you know this for a fact because I've mentioned this before so of course this country's govt has much less funds to pay necessary things with. Also, corporations are selling their foreign-made products to us, products that once were manufactured here, and for which the American workforce got paid for making. That means less revenue to go into our country. So there you have 2 monstrously huge reasons our govt has no funds. It’s NOT that vital, life-giving programs are spending more than this country is making. It’s that the funds that were going into this country HAVE BEEN TAKEN AWAY BY THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS, AND THESE NEED TO BE PUT BACK.

Libertarian: “Can I talk now?"

Me: "NO."

Libertarian: "You want to take money from the rich. It’s always the rich, the rich, corporations, the rich, corporations, blah blah”

Me: “Hey, iIf they’re the ones responsible for the f'd up situation we're in, I’m not going to protect their evil asses like you do.”.

And so it went.
59 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Small example of lovely conversation I had this a.m. with a Libertarian nutjob (Original Post) Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 OP
Excellent work there, Sarah! PassingFair Apr 2012 #1
Thanks! You'd have thought someone had punched him when I said that nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #2
I don't understand their need to defend the rich. progressoid Apr 2012 #3
Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levine deliver those talking points daily. Mimosa Apr 2012 #9
He made 'some' money in the market, but he's by no means rich. His kids are not doing well Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #11
They're under the illusion that one day they'll be as rich as the Kockroach brothers Raine Apr 2012 #58
This sounds like every conversation I've had with every Libertarian and Republican ever. HughBeaumont Apr 2012 #4
Not to mention the incessant whining about the plight of the overrich gratuitous Apr 2012 #5
Reminds me of this book, which every American should read. HughBeaumont Apr 2012 #8
The Great Risk Shift. I'd never heard of it. I'll be sure to read it. Thanks! nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #30
Exactly! That's another thing I tell these pretend-idiots, that if you get a BENEFIT from something Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #26
Ding, ding, ding. Wish I could rec your post. God did not decree free markets and coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #28
Most of the self-described libertarians are in fact rightwing Republicans Mimosa Apr 2012 #10
Exactly. I have never considered a Libertarian to be anything BUT a Republican smoking a joint nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #31
You're right. Libertarians ARE Republicans. I think they just don't like to be SEEN as GOPers, but Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #12
Libertarians = Republicans - Teh Jesus + Legal Weed + Hawt Capitalist Chix. HughBeaumont Apr 2012 #16
Who is that? nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #18
Michelle Caruso-Cabrera, a particularly loathsome CNBC joker. HughBeaumont Apr 2012 #34
Another right wing freakazoid? I just looked her up... Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #41
you have more patience that I do... Javaman Apr 2012 #6
Me too!!! Why bother? Plus so many are near violent you never know but even the most benign lunasun Apr 2012 #7
I don't have more patience. I just have more of a desire to tear their arguments to shreds - Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #13
My conversation was similar RockaFowler Apr 2012 #14
Oh how pretty that is! "A Hitler Jew." Did you tell him to shut his filthy piehole? nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #15
I blasted him for it RockaFowler Apr 2012 #44
I guess they grew up and got stupid. nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #45
What, pray tell, is a "Hitler Jew"??? Is that akin to a "Marx Capitalist"? - n/t coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #32
they live in a fantasy world Locrian Apr 2012 #17
Oh, you betcha! In their philosophy, the rich can do no wrong. nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #19
plus Locrian Apr 2012 #21
It's pathetic how f'd up a view of themselves and of people they have. nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #29
I posted this toon yesterday,but it is apt. Swede Apr 2012 #20
That's exactly what Libertarians and Repukes would like us to think is a solution. Stupid people, Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #23
Your conversation in totality sounds like my brother's diatribe Skidmore Apr 2012 #22
Oh yeah, that's what "independents" like to say: Both sides are the same. BS. Both sides are not Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #24
Conversational whiplash and severe headaches - I think all Libertarians coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #35
That's 15-20 minutes of your life you'll never get back, but thanks coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #25
It's okay. I want them to know I realize they're full of shit, and just plain evil. It doesn't Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #27
I love to see the little veins pop out on the sides of their heads. smirkymonkey Apr 2012 #42
Ew. That's a little gross to watch, yes. But it's so much fun smacking the heck Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #43
We couldn't have fought and won World War II proud2BlibKansan Apr 2012 #33
Actually, the truly hard-core Libertarian nutjobs will insist that we should coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #36
When you have someone like that, the only reason for continuing... JHB Apr 2012 #38
True. nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #39
I try to point out that I don't "want to take money from the rich"... JHB Apr 2012 #37
You bring up a great point. Libertarians and Repukes use the term, "Commie" on anyone that points Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #40
The largest expense this country has is military. Ganja Ninja Apr 2012 #46
Oh, of course not! They love excess spending on the military, but only certain types of spending Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #47
Sounds like my father Populist_Prole Apr 2012 #48
Where did he come up with this idea of the rich? Do you know the history behind his thoughts? nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #49
I think he always wanted to be a big-shot and outwardly successful. He's a big time schmoozer Populist_Prole Apr 2012 #50
Oh Lordy. That kinda explains it. Have you ever asked him how he wants people to remember him? Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #51
I should ask that but I'm afraid how he'll answer Populist_Prole Apr 2012 #52
I think most people get mellow with age, but boy, he's not mellowing much is he? Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #53
Thanks for the great OP and your input n/t Populist_Prole Apr 2012 #57
Thanks! nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #59
Yeah the rich pay the bulk of taxes... SomethingFishy Apr 2012 #54
That went well. MissMarple Apr 2012 #55
Yes, didn't it? Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #56

PassingFair

(22,434 posts)
1. Excellent work there, Sarah!
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 08:34 AM
Apr 2012

"Me: “Listen up. If you have a parent with children, and that parent works but keeps the money for HIMSELF and doesn’t share it with his children, according to YOU, the solution to that problem, is for the children to eat less and go shoeless, since they’re eating more than the money available for them to eat and wear shoes."

progressoid

(49,824 posts)
3. I don't understand their need to defend the rich.
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 08:58 AM
Apr 2012

Must be all the RW media brain washing.

(I assume this person wasn't mega-wealthy)

Mimosa

(9,131 posts)
9. Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levine deliver those talking points daily.
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:04 AM
Apr 2012

Any time I'd clicked on Am radio I'd hear that hogwash.

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
11. He made 'some' money in the market, but he's by no means rich. His kids are not doing well
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:21 AM
Apr 2012

financially in this economy, but does he connect the dots? NO, of course, why should he? He's a Republican, they're not here to connect the dots or understand anything.

Raine

(30,540 posts)
58. They're under the illusion that one day they'll be as rich as the Kockroach brothers
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 08:12 PM
Apr 2012

they actually think the system would allow types like them to get a slice of the pie.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
4. This sounds like every conversation I've had with every Libertarian and Republican ever.
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 09:00 AM
Apr 2012

Not only are they serial interruptors and talk for the sake of hearing themselves talk, it just amazes me how steadfastly protective they are of the wealthy and corporations and how insistent they are that lower taxes on the wealthy (or even more hilarious, elimination of them completely) and less money towards social programs is the solution that ails all of our problems.

It also amazes me about libertarians how they insist up and down that "they're not Republicans", yet subscribe to and practically trip over themselves to defend every failed Republican economic policy there is. Paulites are even worse; they want to pretty much eliminate the social safety net instead of merely defund it. Yeah, good luck fending off THAT mob, guys.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
5. Not to mention the incessant whining about the plight of the overrich
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 09:08 AM
Apr 2012

Yeah, the wealthy should pay more in taxes, because without this system of government, they wouldn't have made that huge pile of money. It should be on them to finance its running, and it should be run for the benefit of far more people than just the wealthy. As it is now, the government is financed by the dwindling middle and lower classes largely for the benefit of the robber barons at the top. There has been a 30-year massive upward transfer of the wealth generated by labor in this country, and it hasn't benefited the citizens because all the wealthy have produced is more greed.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
8. Reminds me of this book, which every American should read.
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 10:58 AM
Apr 2012
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=538937

Prattle on all you want about "SOSHULISM", Repubs and Libertarians. The only "Soshulism" happening in this country is that which rewards those who least need it, regardless of what kind of job they do. The only "Soshulism" happening in this country is LOSS, while all of the gains are privatized.

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
26. Exactly! That's another thing I tell these pretend-idiots, that if you get a BENEFIT from something
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:21 PM
Apr 2012

you have to put some of that benefit back, or go elsewhere and try to get that benefit elsewhere, but don't come trying to get benefits here again by trying to sell products to the people you turned your back on, or trying to get tax deductions, or trying to use lands for free, etc. etc. etc.

They're all a bunch of a-holes.

And yes, the dwindling middle class are the ones supporting this country that the rich, powerful and corps are sucking benefits from.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
28. Ding, ding, ding. Wish I could rec your post. God did not decree free markets and
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:24 PM
Apr 2012

capitalism when (S)he set the wheels of the universe in motion, a fact the plutocrats, their lackies and lickspittles often conveniently forget.

Mimosa

(9,131 posts)
10. Most of the self-described libertarians are in fact rightwing Republicans
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:12 AM
Apr 2012

Every now and then I used to visit a couple of boards where most of the males posting claimed to be 'libertarians'. Having leaned that way when I was young I know libertarian philosophy.

You can tell when a self-described libertarian is really a rightwinger by their views on abortion. That's where they can't keep up the pretense.

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
12. You're right. Libertarians ARE Republicans. I think they just don't like to be SEEN as GOPers, but
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:23 AM
Apr 2012

they share every belief with them, except perhaps sex, drugs and rock 'n roll.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
16. Libertarians = Republicans - Teh Jesus + Legal Weed + Hawt Capitalist Chix.
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:47 AM
Apr 2012


Anti-Government wimmins on CNBC kick Soshulism's ass and give Penn Jillette happy feelings in pants.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
34. Michelle Caruso-Cabrera, a particularly loathsome CNBC joker.
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:31 PM
Apr 2012

Oh, yeah, she's also an author:



I mean, THAT's some choots-pah, isn't it? Who the hell names their book "You KNOW I'm Right"?? "I'm the greatest bastard in this room! BOW to my wisdumb!"

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
41. Another right wing freakazoid? I just looked her up...
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:59 PM
Apr 2012

Her father is wealthy, her mother immigrated from Cuba very early on, so she was probably from a highly influential family in Cuba and hot-tailed it out of there. Many of the Cubans that left early had money in the U.S.

She's just another a-hole, and makes mucho $ being one.

I learned many years ago that anyone who is not a complete doofus can make a lot of money by offering to suck right wing ass. She's one of those who made it that way.

Javaman

(62,439 posts)
6. you have more patience that I do...
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 09:17 AM
Apr 2012

when ever I heard a libertarian speak, I walk away. there is no curing stupid.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
7. Me too!!! Why bother? Plus so many are near violent you never know but even the most benign
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 10:50 AM
Apr 2012

stupid ones are headache forming

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
13. I don't have more patience. I just have more of a desire to tear their arguments to shreds -
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:26 AM
Apr 2012

it's so easy. I also enjoy it when they get angry because their argument has been proved to be illogical and just downright stupid and evil.

RockaFowler

(7,429 posts)
14. My conversation was similar
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:33 AM
Apr 2012

And my Libertarian is a cousin. Of course he started using the "You are so brainwashed" line to me. He also called me a Hitler Jew. Didn't go over too well with my Father. I also let his Mother know what a filthy mouth her little nincampoop has. It's really all they know - dirty comebacks with no substance. Ron Paul is the end-all - why?? He's out of the mainstream. Look you moron - Ron Paul has been in the government for 30 years. He is so far in the mainstream he is the mainstream!!!

RockaFowler

(7,429 posts)
44. I blasted him for it
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 02:27 PM
Apr 2012

He then back-tracked and said that there were Jews that were for Hitler. Thus comparing President Obama to Hitler. Then his idiot brother got into the conversation and called me a sheep. I guess anyone who doesn't believe in Ron Paul's BS is a sheep. I liked the 2 of them better when they wet their pants when they were babies. At least then they didn't talk and upset their older wiser cousin.

Locrian

(4,522 posts)
17. they live in a fantasy world
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:58 AM
Apr 2012

Where the "business man" (ie what they think of themselves) is the hero. Because it MUST be so: 'hard work' = success and if you dont have success you obviously didnt work hard enough.

Never mind that a lot of what the mega corporations and wall street crooks got there (and more importantly STAY there) by cheating and gaming the system.

They refuse to see that they are being bent over and screwed. They cant face the fact that they have more in common with the person on welfare or making dirt (ie in their minds the LOSERS) than the 'rich elite' (WINNERS) that they fancy themselves to be a part of.


Locrian

(4,522 posts)
21. plus
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:03 PM
Apr 2012

It probably didn't help that he made even a little bit of money in the market. So he basically gambled, did no "real" work, and made a few bucks and now feels like he's JP Morgan.

A little bit of ego is all that it takes....

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
23. That's exactly what Libertarians and Repukes would like us to think is a solution. Stupid people,
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:14 PM
Apr 2012

really.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
22. Your conversation in totality sounds like my brother's diatribe
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:11 PM
Apr 2012

last month, only he was presenting both sides as a unified argument and arriving at the conclusion that he's "tired of supporting lazy people" and just wants some of his money back. I got whiplash and a severe headache afterward. His conclusion is also that he hates both parties and will not vote. Period.

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
24. Oh yeah, that's what "independents" like to say: Both sides are the same. BS. Both sides are not
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:16 PM
Apr 2012

the same even remotely. I think behind the label "independents" are just more right wingnuts.

Libertarians and Republicans are the undisputed destructors of our country. The only people they wish to benefit, and have spent their lives benefiting, are the rich, powerful, and corporations.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
35. Conversational whiplash and severe headaches - I think all Libertarians
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:31 PM
Apr 2012

need to wear warning labels on their clothes like the warnings on cigarette packages

On a serious note, your brother sounds like a textbook example of Marxist 'alienation' as elaborated on by Gramsci and Marcuse, among others.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
25. That's 15-20 minutes of your life you'll never get back, but thanks
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:21 PM
Apr 2012

for making the effort. I've given up trying to discuss politics with Repukes and Libertarians. The former invariably lie, almost as if it's part of their internal constitutions and the latter are uniformly caught in mass ahistorical delusions. Unfortunately, the entire country from time to time either buys the lies or gets swept up in the delusions.

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
27. It's okay. I want them to know I realize they're full of shit, and just plain evil. It doesn't
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:22 PM
Apr 2012

make them happy to know that, and it does make their face turn red with fury. That gives me a bit of a thrill.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
42. I love to see the little veins pop out on the sides of their heads.
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 01:50 PM
Apr 2012

It's so exciting - it's like their heads are going to explode or something. It gets kind of gross though when they get spitting mad and start slobbering all over everything.

proud2BlibKansan

(96,793 posts)
33. We couldn't have fought and won World War II
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:30 PM
Apr 2012

if we had had a constitutional amendment calling for a balanced budget.

That factoid usually shuts up the goofy libertarians I know.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
36. Actually, the truly hard-core Libertarian nutjobs will insist that we should
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:34 PM
Apr 2012

not have fought in World War II and that we got suckered into it by Churchill, et. al.

It's these ahistorical delusions they manifest that have caused me to cease and desist in any attempts at political discourse with any of those whack-jobs.

JHB

(37,128 posts)
38. When you have someone like that, the only reason for continuing...
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:46 PM
Apr 2012

...is to play to the audience, if there is one. To make him look like the jackass he is in front of everybody there.
They can be reached.

JHB

(37,128 posts)
37. I try to point out that I don't "want to take money from the rich"...
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:43 PM
Apr 2012

...(well, some, but that's not the main thing), what I want is for people who are already wealthy to not redistribute wealth into their own pockets as much. To simply slow down how fast they get more wealthy and pay their people the difference.

Or, propose changing tax rates ranging from 10% to 81%, increasing over 24 brackets. And after the apoplectic response, note that that is 10% lower than what we actually had in the 1950s. If the words "socialist" or "communist" were involved, ask him what the Soviets were, since apparently we were the commies back then.

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
40. You bring up a great point. Libertarians and Repukes use the term, "Commie" on anyone that points
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:52 PM
Apr 2012

out the fallacies in the right wing philosophy. That is what a "Commie" really is to them. It has nothing to do with Communism, but boy, do they use the term.

Ganja Ninja

(15,953 posts)
46. The largest expense this country has is military.
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 02:47 PM
Apr 2012

So I guess the Libertarian is in favor of scrapping the Navy and Air Forces and bringing the troops home. Cutting the military by 90% and bringing spending under control must be his fondest wish, or am I wrong about that?

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
47. Oh, of course not! They love excess spending on the military, but only certain types of spending
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 02:54 PM
Apr 2012

And of course, they don't like military spending that helps former veterans and injured veterans.

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
48. Sounds like my father
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 03:31 PM
Apr 2012

I see him for a few days maybe once a year and from the first minute he baits me with corporatist BS, like he's been planning and preparing for it point by point like a pushy salesman. Always interrupts just like the one you describe, and uses the tritest lamest talking points as though it was some startling revelation I've never heard of. Within minutes he's literally yelling, and I'm tensed up enough to pop him one in the mouth.

He's worried about getting by as a retiree and thinks the rich can do no wrong ( unless they're rich and liberal ) and literally sees me as his political enemy.

Talk about barking up the wrong tree.

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
50. I think he always wanted to be a big-shot and outwardly successful. He's a big time schmoozer
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 05:16 PM
Apr 2012

He ended up doing fairly well for himself and retired comfortably. Materialistic. He seems to think now that he's "made it" that the whole world wants to take what's his. Endlessly watching Fox news and listening to Rush Limbaugh, as well has associating only with other wealthy conservative people has more or less brainwashed him into a super hard-right winger. There's another factor: He was in sales all his life and very heavily read in motivational self-help material. So every conversation is like a "pitch". He thinks his ability to persuade is so absolute, that if one disagrees with him, it's just out of spite. I'm not kidding. He just cannot deal with it if he can't talk you into something.

He was always like this but dealing with the world in his working life kept it in check. Now that he's in a sort of protected bubble, he's absolutely insufferable. Others have noticed this as well. He doesn't care and scoffs at what others think. His friends are rich and politically conservative, but none have his viciousness or stridency.

I feel really bad it's worked out this way, since he's otherwise healthy and has every reason to enjoy life but chooses to be bitter just because politics dominate his every thought.



Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
51. Oh Lordy. That kinda explains it. Have you ever asked him how he wants people to remember him?
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 05:19 PM
Apr 2012

Try that. See what he really holds important. That might give him a clue. Or maybe not! He has swallowed the whole capitalism-everything's-for-sale bs propaganda.

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
52. I should ask that but I'm afraid how he'll answer
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 05:42 PM
Apr 2012

I'm sure he'll want to be seen as a benign figure that not enough people really understood. I can tell you with absolute certainty though that he'll believe in the "whole capitalism-everything's-for-sale bs propaganda" till the end. I mean; it was the blueprint that shaped his life.

But that's a good question. If he's intellectually honest enough to answer truthfully, that may well be a wedge that may split his iron heart. Then again, he may sense that and not answer in a way that he thinks gives "the enemy" any aid and comfort. By "enemy", that's anybody the slightest degree to the left of him on any issue.

Damn: I though people should get mellow when they age

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
53. I think most people get mellow with age, but boy, he's not mellowing much is he?
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 05:46 PM
Apr 2012

Yeah, maybe that question will make him ponder.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
54. Yeah the rich pay the bulk of taxes...
Tue Apr 10, 2012, 05:52 PM
Apr 2012

They make 90% of the money and pay 70% of the taxes so they are over taxed.

Gotta love libertarian logic and math.



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